California is completely insane...We give up.

[SomeGuynTexas]

We (my small company that I am part owner of) have been working on a proposal for two years to begin manufacturing of a small gidget/thingy for a government customer. We aren't talking B2 bomber style money, but respectable money (think $50K - 100K/Unit x hundreds of units). We have cash that is burning a hole in our pockets and we are ready to rock and roll.

We've solicited input from all the stakeholders and the number one state that keeps winning the poll is California. Almost everyone involved in the project is pro-California for a number of sensible reasons. Access to manufacturing. Familiarity with the technology. Access to technology centers. Access to a skilled labor pool. Etc... But none of the stakeholders has ever done business in California. This should of been a clue for us.

Last week we receive a response back from one of the finalists to our Request for Quote. It was 246% higher than any other competing quote we received. Two and a half times higher.

WTF?

At first we thought it was a typo (couldn't be, the same number was in the quote 7 or 8 times on different pages). Then we thought they made a calculation error. Nope. We called them. It was a number of issues, mainly regulatory requirements for doing business, taxes, etc...all charges and risks unique to the State of California. We gave up and informed the stakeholders.

We spoke to the company (located in Sunnyvale) and it was mind boggling the burden the state puts on small manufacturers. There was no way around it, nor was there any reasonable way to mitigate the additional costs. We had no clue it was that expensive. I should have. I did a similar contract 17 years ago in South Los Angeles and it was a money maker for all involved. It's what got my little company on solid ground.

20 years ago I would not have hesitated to open a product line anywhere in CA. The accessibility to resources in that state was unparalleled. Not so any more.

So much for my dream of being able to live in San Diego or Napa.

In short, CA is toast for us. We threw the proposal in the trash and moved on. Hello Mississippi and Alabama.

Holy Cow California, what the hell happened?

[Tansy_Gold]

1. I guess maybe Californians wanted to protect their environment

or their workers' safety or make sure they get paid a living wage. You know, stuff like that. Maybe there isn't a whole lot of that in Mississippi or Alabama. . . . or Texas.

Of course, they don't have the skilled work force or the access to technology either, do they.

I guess you get what you pay for.


:shrug:




TG, NTY

PS I was gonna alert on this post for accusing the whole state of California for being insane, but I decided maybe it would spark an interesting discussion instead.

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. The fact that real estate is 4x as expensive is a factor, don't you think? n/t

[efhmc]

3. Sorry you will have to go away from such a beautiful place,

but those states could sure use some progressives.

[AngryAmish]

4. The problem with Sunnyvale is the Hellmouth is there

Tons of vampires and other demons. Real problem. Can't keep employees as they keep getting eaten by the undead.

[Kookaburra]

11. lol

I was going to post the same thing, then saw yours. You gotta be quick around here.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

47. Yeah, but the women are major babes

Even the evil ones

[Lucian]

71. I think you mean Sunnydale.

;)

[cliffordu]

87. Well, ya, there's that....

[opihimoimoi]

5. They shouloda got Gary Coleman....Arnie failed just as we predicted..he was/is in nbed w the GOPers

[tabatha]

6. Exactly what taxes?

Have been in a small manufacturing business here in CA for over 20 years, and are unaware of what you are talking about.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Yes, but are you building "gidget/thingys?" I don't think you are

And as such, you're not aware of the oppressive gidget/thingy taxes and regulations, which are the most onerous gidget/thingy taxes in the whole of the industrialized world!

Indeed, the gidget/thingy regulations alone make it impossible for any business that hopes to make a profit to build a gidget/thingy in the state of California. Why, just last year an amateur gidget/thingy enthusiast was sued by the State Board of Gidget/Thingy manufacturing for building a gidget/thingy in his own basement!

For shame, California! If you want to know why Californians aren't employed in the once thriving gidget/thingy manufacturing business, you need only look at the impossible burden that the government puts on gidget/thingy production!

[JackRiddler]

61. Gidget thingies...

Of course Texas *could* explain his gidget thingy but it's too complicated for you. Just listen, he's an EXPERT, okay?!

[county worker]

7. This looks a lot like a bull shit post to me.

Be more specific. What is your business plan? What are you making? Who are your suppliers? I have been a controller of manufacturing companies in CA for a long time. Most successful companies here know it is not the State but the business prowess that determines if you are successful.

[Hepburn]

17. +1...my thoughts exactly. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

59. I hear california is overrun with gays and pot smoking women having abortions.

Not to mention the fornication. Help!!!

[SoCalDem]

75. When they are not smoking & nursing babies at Olive Garden

:)

[TexasObserver]

88. That's why it's so expensive to make "gidgets" there.

"Gidget Goes to Mississippi" is the next one, apparently.

[SoCalDem]

91. Moondoggie is being recast as MoonPie, or so I heard

:)

[TexasObserver]

86. +1 - but I'd like to hear about that "gidget" he intends to manufacture.

[JVS]

92. But Ironhead, it's got this thingy!

[The Wielding Truth]

8. Their regulations got the lead out of paint in Cali which eventually helped the whole country.

I see your frustrations, but I admire their commitment to do tings the best way for the consumer.If you can break into the Cal market it may be worth the money.

[Frustratedlady]

9. Never looked at Iowa?

We have an intelligent/reliable workforce, community college training geared to your product, safe and healthy environment, financial incentives.

In my area, we are about to lose GE and have lost a couple other companies in the recent past, so there is a ready workforce.

It may be cold, at times, but we're honest and hard-working.

Worth a look.

[SomeGuynTexas]

Actually, no we haven't. Care to be a bit more specific?

The needs are:

High Tech, board fab, carbon fiber composite experience, build to print, access to NRC regulated materials.

Care to suggest a city/center?

[Frustratedlady]

26. Many of the links you'd need are listed on this site.

http://iowa.com/iwork/doing-business-in-iowa/ Iowa is presently working with my son to develop a company and he is quite pleased with their expertise.

Most cities will work with you to help set up your business. We aren't that far from St. Louis, Kansas City or Chicago, so you can still find most of what you need and return to the peace and quiet of the Midwest.

[MineralMan]

10. Uh-huh...whatever you say, there...

I guess that's why Apple and HP never established a presence there. Good luck to you with your enterprise, you know...maybe staying in Texas is your best bet, eh?

:rofl:

Unrecced for...well...unrecced.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

35. When was the last time Apple or HP opened an manufacturing facitlity in California?

They took the vast majority of it offshore years ago

[MineralMan]

43. That's not a California problem. That's a national problem.

I hate it, but it's not limited to California. Electronics manufacturing is just not done in the USA anymore on any large scale. I'm not sure how it will ever return.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. HP started leaving CA in the 70s, offshoring too

Idaho and Colorado comes to mind.

[Jazzgirl]

42. Edited.

n/t

[gristy]

12. Not buying it

What, you joined DU just to tell us your little story?
Gee, I guess I'll vote the Carly, then! pffssst

[Angry Dragon]

Look to the northern states if you are really serious

I also have my doubts

[BootinUp]

13. I guess those pro-California reasons dont come for free

There is an old saying that goes: You get what you pay for.

For 30 years this country has been rolling back regulation and taxes, there is a balance to these things, i.e. one only has to look at what problems existed before they were put in place. What is the proper balance? Its never a simple question or answer. If you had presented a detailed post about a particular type of regulation and why it didn't make sense you would get farther in convincing people in my opinion instead of this low information rant.

[SomeGuynTexas]

16. It wasn't a rant and simply put....

the shit we sometimes make would make people's heads go "poof" here. We build things other folks think twice about putting pen on paper.

So, yeah, not much use dragging red herring issues into a rant on CA's unfriendly business environment.

But thanks for the advice.

[BootinUp]

32. To the Contrary Sir, I believe it fits the definition perfectly

It seems you will have to make the best business decision based on all available inputs.

[Angry Dragon]

36. You type words but really say nothing

If you want to have a discussion it would help if you
really said something concrete

[flamingdem]

14. ha ha Nutmeg and Curly are sooo desperate nt

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Crock of shite, lacking in specifics and apparently unable to

comprehend that wanting to live in Napa at Alabama prices is a foolish thought.

[piratefish08]

19. vote for Whitman - she'll fix things for you!

[Iggo]

54. He can't. He's from Texas.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PfUeC91NIe0/SlgXTYUORsI/AAAAAAAABeY/VyzJIV68jNs/s400/Smiley+Face,+Wink.jpg

[leeroysphitz]

20. Maybe you should consider opening your product line in Somalia.

I'll bet you won't have nearly as much tax overhead or regulatory concerns and think of the abundance of cheap labor.

[blogslut]

21. So, what is Texas?

Chopped liver?

[Kalyke]

31. Yep - and apparently so is all of the South.

Forget that in Tennessee, we build nuclear bombs and super computers - our workforce isn't "skilled" enough.

Forget that in Alabama, they devise the technology necessary to fly to Mars or the Ort Cloud - their workforce is a bunch of dumbasses, too.

I, for one, would like to see more high-technology industry in the South - done correctly, that is. If done correctly, union jobs are created. If done correctly, the state doesn't have to give away its tax base to attract the company.

But, of course, if we were to get into wooing these industries, our dumbass Republican politicians would jump in and sell us down the road for slave-labor wages and the entire elimination of taxes for the business.

[safeinOhio]

22. Detroit and Cleveland are

nice this time of year. Castles are cheap too.

[Spike89]

23. That's a big leap from one company in one area

To making a blanket statement about an entire state. Obviously that is exactly why you seek bids. I've been on both ends of the bid process and I know for a fact that it is rarely a "scientific" formula. For instance, when we're running hot, we bid high (and hot doesn't always mean doing great, just working at or above capacity). When we're idle or semi-idle, we'll bid low. There are even times when it makes sense to bid at cost if it keeps capacity from needing to be be cut--we might not make any money on your project, but we can at least maintain our facilities until business picks up. Finally, the more experienced vendors sometimes come in well above the average on bids because they actually know what they are doing and perhaps have figuring in costs that the new guys in Mississippi and Alabama ignored.
Good luck with your project.

[Codeine]

24. Care to elaborate on what specifically some of those onerous burdens might be?

Sure it'll be cheaper to make your (I suspect imaginary) widgets in a state where environmental controls basically consist of making sure you take four long strides away from the back door before dumping your used motor oil and where employment protection is completely non-existent, but ask yourself if you really want to contribute to that tendency. Fuck Mississippi and fuck Alabama as well.

>Holy Cow California, what the hell happened?

We're fucking awesome, that's what happened.

[kick-ass-bob]

25. Shrub?

Is that you?

[phasma ex machina]

50. .

:rofl:

[Doctor_J]

62. Shrub never came up with an idea for a widget/thingy

so it must be some other crazy Texan

[Ian David]

27. CA is run by an economic girlie-man. n/t

[DefenseLawyer]

28. Have you considered Somalia?

Sure security costs will be a little higher but there is absolutely zero red tape.

[Codeine]

29. Somalia: We Get Shit Done nt

[David Zephyr]

78. LOL.

Exactly. :)

[Codeine]

30. Meg Whitman followed Alan Grayson to DU! nt

[Ignis]

55. !

:spray:

:spank:

[Binka]

33. GO GIANTS!

I am really happy you are not coming to Napa. GO GIANTS!

[David Zephyr]

84. Ah, yes. How sweet that is, Binka.

:)

[jaxx]

34. Try mid Illinois. We have lots of empty factories

and give tax incentives for start ups. Really!

[KansDem]

37. Texas? Texas? Why does that name sound familiar?...OH, YEAH, you voted for your ex-gov in 2000!!!

Along with "Hello" Mississippi and Alabama...

You all loooved those "shrink the government" rubes who couldn't wait for Bush and Cheney to deregulate, deregulate, deregulate.

And what happened? Does "drill, baby, drill" come to mind?

Say what you will about California but at least you can swim in the water there...

[Starry Messenger]

38. You're right, that dot-com thing never really took off here either.

:eyes:

[David Zephyr]

81. Precisely.

.

[GOTV]

39. This is how the race to the bottom is won! Locate where child labor is legal and you'll really score

[Codeine]

40. Vietnam is the new Tennessee! nt

[rucky]

41. Get thee to OHIO!

http://www.hightechohio.com/

[kestrel91316]

44. What happened is, we Californians decided that feudalism and Somalia

and such were not good role models for a state. Taxes are the price we pay for CIVILIZATION and a CIVIL SOCIETY.

But NICE TRY with the RW talking points. Enjoy your stay.

[tjwash]

45. Meg? Is that you?

At least you fixed the fuck-up on your commercial, and changed the pining for 30 years ago (when J.B. was governor) ago, to 20 years ago (where you can fake-fawn over Deukmajian and Wilson). :rofl:

A little too late though...you are WAYYYYY the hell behind in the polls, and no amount of astroturfing will help you now.

[Gold Metal Flake]

48. Bullshit.

California is the eight largest economy in the world. Your RW talking points are fail.

[asdjrocky]

49. I smell something bad here.

I know several people involved in manufacturing in Cali, and I'd like some more details. What extra taxes? Of course you know you are also looking, if this is true at all, in the most expensive areas of Cali.

Until there are more real concrete details, I have to call fake.

[trotsky]

63. I dunno, I smell something delicious.

Bready crust, tomato sauce, and is that pepperoni? Mmmmm.

[David Zephyr]

83. Yes, that is the aroma. Thank you, trotsky for identifying it.

:)

[Arugula Latte]

51. Git gub'mint off our backs!! Rape, pillage, pollute!!

[11 Bravo]

52. Hmmmm. Signed up just in time for the election, I see.

[uppityperson]

56. Aw, come on, it's been here for almost 2 months. Fun linkie here...

not sure why though.
ed to add linkie http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=559181&mesg_id=559182

[BootinUp]

60. I do believe we got a live one, fundamentally speaking.

[Adsos Letter]

64. wrong spot

[Marr]

53. First you say California was your top choice. Then you say their regulations ruin them.

Well, which is it? If the system is horrible in California, surely some other, less regulated state would've been your top choice. Surely some other, less-taxed state would've had the infrastructure and knowledge base your company needs-- particularly since California pays more into the federal system than it gets back, and the competition is sponging off of it.

No?

I own a small business in California myself, and I'd say you get what you pay for. If you only have the funds to do cut rate work, then don't expect to have your top choice on the job.

But all this is beside the point. I think you're full of shit with this half-baked story.

[bemildred]

57. Don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

58. You do realize that some expenses- like property values, rent, etc.- are higher in Silicon Valley?

And cost of living and salaries are higher, too. Same as if you tried to hire people in Manhattan. That's just the way it is.

I would suggest looking somewhere like Sonoma County; Sonoma has been trying to nurture high tech business for years, and the Charles Schultz Airport provides a relatively easy access point for small commuter flights in and out.

If you're setting up shop in Sunnyvale, you're not going to be able to live in San Diego, and you will have one hell of a commute if you live in Napa. Just sayin'.

[Adsos Letter]

65. Meg! And all this time I thought you were avoiding public discussion

and yet, here you are! :sarcasm:

[Vickers]

66. Your story smells fishy. n/t

[jgraz]

67. Thanks, I think we'll somehow get along without you.

Have fun screwing the workers in 'Bama. :hi:

[End Of The Road]

68. Austin has everything you want!

Including alot of Californians.

[wiggs]

69. California's economy would rank it #8 in the world, comparing it to the world's countries. We can't

be doing too much wrong.

[David Zephyr]

77. +1

Exactly.

[haele]

70. You looked at Sunnyvale. Further south, you might have had a better quote.

San Diego's Tech Triangle, OC; those areas tend to be a bit more business friendly than the Bay area and the cost of real estate is a bit lower than in the Silicon Valley area.
There is also a tendency for most businesses in CA to have an administrative process "mark up" for regulatory requirements they're supposed to cover internally, especially if they're not really serious about the quote.
If your finalist is not willing to revisit his quote, then chances are that business does not carry overhead for their management and administration; they require their upper management and other supporting departments to bill pass-through on the contracts rather than being billed through an administrative overhead pool.

But ultimately in costs, it will always be higher to work in California than it would in "right to be fired", low regulation states like Tennessee, Alabama or Mississippi. If a state cares about it's environment and workforce, those who would affect the wellbeing of that environment and workforce need to pay the price to mitigate that effect.
Too many "business friendly" practices in too many states end up with unsafe work sites, polluted groundwater, disabling air quality, and underhanded business practices (bribery, favoritism, extortion).

I'm sorry your stakeholders had unrealistic ideas about what working in California would cost. Unless they were planning on waiting to see if Meg Whitman could pull a Diebold and steal the governor's seat as well as what Prop 23 would do, I don't see why they thought it would be equivalent in cost to some of the more desperate, revenue focused right to work states would be.

Haele

[EFerrari]

72. Silicon Valley is pretty much an annex of the Pentagon.

You should try out of the Bay Area -- like Fresno, for example.

[nessa]

73. Take a look at..

Pittsburgh PA, home to Carnegie Mellon University, University of Pittsburgh..

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/best-cities-to-move-to-in-america.

1. Pittsburgh, PA
Pittsburgh, PA, Getty Images

Pittsburgh, like Buffalo, has also made a major transformation from an industrial town - in Pittsburgh's case, steel -- into the 21st Century as a hub for education, health care and the arts.

Yet, it's still surprisingly affordable: The cost of living is 12.2 percent below the national average and the average home price is $116,400, well below the national average of $171,700.

It's repeatedly ranked as one of the most livable cities: The crime rate is low, it ranks high on both arts and colleges, and it's at low risk for a natural disaster such as an earthquake, hurricane or tornado.

[walldude]

74. Coming from a state where it is a crime

to be a homosexual or to own more than 6 dildo's I think you need to re-think who you are calling crazy.

[David Zephyr]

76. Different experience. I own two companies in California and one is manufacturing.

20 years of success and still at it.

And the great majority of our suppliers are California businesses, too.

I have no idea what your particular request for quotation was for, but overall manufacturing in California is not 246% more expensive than anywhere else in the U.S. It just isn't.

[spanone]

79. perhaps california is simply vigilant.

[Jack_DeLeon]

80. Viva Tejas...

:)

[Zephie]

82. Trolololo~

Not. Buying. It.

[AsahinaKimi]

85. If you think California is Crazy now...

Wait till we win the World Series!

[MzNov]

90. and we are doing that as we speak!

:woohoo:

:toast:

[TexasObserver]

89. When you're telling a story about manufacturing "gadgets," don't start by calling them "gidgets."

Your story basically says it costs three times as much to make your product in California than in Mississippi.

I find that uncredible.

How does one get a contract to build "gidgets" for a governmental unit in California with no idea of the manufacturing costs of said "gidgets"?

You left out the part of the story about how open borders, gay rights, and unions cause costs in California to be so many times higher than costs in Mississippi.

[charlie]

93. Comb your hair and stand up straight

We've got an audience.

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=50529.0

[tabatha]

94. Yep.

I think they must be smoking something.

It is electronics - but then truth was never something important to them.

[Codeine]

96. Holy shit. That's a bizarre exercise. nt

[WorseBeforeBetter]

95. Delusion of grandeur posts are some of my favorites.

Go on...