Wrong to compare those of us on the left with the teabagger right.

[madfloridian]

I watched the Sanity/Fear rally, and it was heartwarming. But then Stewart had to go and do the same thing our Democrats have done for years, the same thing the media does, and the same thing I even heard Howard Dean do on TV not long ago.

Stewart, the centrist Democrats, and even Dean have made both sides sound the same, made it sound like those on the left are as ridiculous as the teabaggers who are filling the airwaves now with their foolishness.

I resent it.

I agree 100% with what Keith Olbermann said.

Olbermann blog at Huffington Post

I wish it were otherwise. But you can tone down all you want and the result will be: the Right will only get LOUDER. Sorry.
less than a minute ago via TwittelatorKeith Olbermann
KeithOlbermann

Exactly. The quieter our side becomes the louder they will get. Their anti-gay, anti-woman rhetoric will just continue.

I appreciate what Stewart and Colbert did, but I fear it went over the empty heads of most of those for whom it was intended. I know. I live among people like that. It is not fun.

I want to quote a blogger who really managed to capture how I was feeling as well.

The Insane Thing About the Rally for Sanity

This column criticizes the Rally for Sanity. I don’t intend it to attack my many beloved friends who had a great afternoon in D.C. blowing off steam and embracing humor and catharsis at the rally or the goodhearted celebrities and musicians who participated. Saturday afternoon’s onstage lineup was entertaining, and the signs that creative rally-goers made were even more clever and fun. Kudos to the sloganeers, the creatively-costumed, the subversive or just merry bands of friends who went down to D.C with purpose or purposelessness. And particular kudos to the folks who brought pro-tax messages to the rally--I loved it and have never seen anything like it before.

But then she points out the absurdity of urging those who stand for important issues to remain silent and not make noise.

She speaks of "timidity in the name of politeness and a confusion of equivocation with objectivity."

Everyone on both sides needs to calm down, this flawed outlook implies. Really? Who on our side is threatening to bomb clinics? Who on our side is calling each other baby-killers? Who on our side is pressing for xenophobic immigration laws that would separate families and strand young children?

But no, we all need to calm down. So the extreme right-wing will keep spouting violent rhetoric and accusing us of being godless un-Americans while well-intentioned people like Stewart and our President himself will ask “why we can’t just get along?” claiming that those of us (often those of us with wombs) who genuinely find the political moment threatening are overreacting. And so they will address their rational plea to an in-the-tank audience that already wants harmony, an audience that can be as uncomfortable with heated rhetoric from its own side as it is from the opposition. Obama and Stewart could say "let's be friends" and "you're a total d-bag" to Glenn Beck supporters, and the ensuing response would probably have the exact same level of disdain and outrage because they're not really listening.

She is right. They are not listening, and if they were listening they would not even understand what was said.

They only listen to Fox and Beck and worship at the feet of Sarah Palin. If told they are wrong, they get irate. I know because our neighborhood is like that.

More from the blogger.

So yes, the rally’s wry nonpolitical “we’re above all that” tone made me deeply sad, even as I chuckled at signs pointing out their own limitations: “My political beliefs cannot fit on a sign.” I was sad because instead of mocking the Tea Party for hating gays and women, for believing lies that our president is a terrorist and a Muslim, and for (in angry confusion) supporting with votes the same billionaires and corporations who have robbed them of jobs and financial security, the rally mostly mocked the Tea Parties for, well, rallying. And that’s distressing because the one quality of this hate-spewing movement that we progressives should be emulating is their ability to show up en masse and get angry and focused on their political goals.

I see a religious right teabagger about to become our senator here in Florida. I see a man whose company perpetrated the largest Medicare fraud ever about to become our governor.

I see our party here waking up way too late, and even then not calling it like it really is.

And I am being asked to be calm and not make waves and be sensible in all things by people who think I am like a teabagger, by politicians who by their effort to be so "bipartisan" allowed all this to take root to begin with?

[Dawson Leery]

1. Who on the 'left' was/is calling for silencing of their opponents.

Recall the right wing during Bush's unfortunate tenure and currently are calling for their opponents to be silenced.

[derby378]

6. Well, their mindset IS what our parents fought against during World War II

Fascism was supposed to have been defeated in Europe, preserved only in Spain by Franco as a sort of international wildlife preserve until his death. But now fascism has reared its ugly head in America, and we're badly in need of some Smedley Butlers to help us kill it off again.

[defendandprotect]

97. Rather, opening a thread to discuss why we might thing certain comments are "wrong" ....

is a rational thing to do -- certainly NOT an attempt at silencing opponents!!

:eyes:


Nazis/fascism were moved into US by Allen Dulles -- See Operation Paperclip.

Dulles spread these Nazis throughout our government -- used them to found the CIA,

moved many into FBI.

Dulles and Prescott Bush and other wealthy Repugs worked for German rearmament and

supported Hitler. Financed Hitler with American gold.

I'm sure there are many excellent books on these subjects -- and info all over the

internet -- I can, however, recommend TWO on the subject which my library bought....

1) "The Beast Reawakens" -- "Millions Died to end Fascism. It survived to mount a comback.

This is the story of how and why." by Martin A. Lee --

2) "The Rise of the Fourth Reich" by Jim Marrs


There's another excellent book which my library had called --

"The Secret War Against The Jews" -- the title is a misnomer, actually --

it covers many subjects explaining the before and after of WWII --


MOST OF ALL, what we should be concerned about is right wing violence --

that is the ONLY way the right wing can rise --

We've had more than a half century of in plein air right wing political violence --

stolen elections -- and lies.

Keep you eye on the increasing violence.



:)

[Enthusiast]

114. Nice post!.....nt

[laughingliberal]

2. Another grand slam for Madfloridian! nt

[TwentyFive]

87. EXACTLY!! Imagine Palin, Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck...saying both sides need...

to calm down. Do they EVER compare themselves or their followers to liberals/progressives? NEVER!! When a conservative extends an olive branch...it's like the one extended last week to Anita Hill.

To them...liberals are the evil ones that should be harassed...silenced...killed...deported. We're perverted, immoral, lazy and criminals. Laws need to be made so that some of us have our children taken away and marriages denied. We should not have control over our own bodies. We must be forced to praise their god, fight their wars, and give them access to the privacy of our bedrooms. They have jailed many of us on drug charges...while their drug addicts are talk radio stars. Our gay members are bullied and beaten, while their gays are preacher/psychologists who are paid millions to spread lies about gays. Some of us are denied equal opportunities, so that their less intelligent sons and daughters can use family connections to get into colleges and corporations that will set them up for life. And when we decide to take our grievance to the polls....they steal our votes and employ intimidation tactics on us.

When will we start to fully stand up for ourselves and our fellow Americans and country?

[gtar100]

134. ++

[suzie]

126. Yeah for Madfloridian, talking down Democratic candidates the day before an election.

WAY TO GO, MADFLORIDIAN.

Alex Sink is a very good candidate and is still slightly ahead in the polls, but a big shout out to Madfloridian for talking down her chances on a supposedly Democratic website.

GRAND SLAM FOR MADFLORIDIAN!!!

[mod mom]

128. + 1

[derby378]

3. This is why I think the Stewart rally may be doomed to failure

We can't just sit back and wag our fingers and say "Now, now, boys, let's play fair," because that's exactly how our party got into the mess it's in today. Instead of embracing transformative change, they went back to the old DLC playbook.

We need more Democrats with drive, passion, and a real ambition to get things done in America. Dean showed us the way. How many of us will follow in his footsteps?

[MineralMan]

9. I'm not entirely sure that the Stewart rally had any particular

goals at all. It was not a rally of activists, really. It was a rally to poke at extreme positions. Most of the signs I saw were ridiculing the far right and the teabaggers. I imagine that an overwhelming majority of those in attendance vote solidly for Democrats. Other than that, I didn't hear any calls for much of anything from that rally.

I don't think that was the goal, frankly, so I don't see how it can actually be a failure.

[tavalon]

70. If there was a goal, it was to show that the media have been irresponsible

in ginning up fear. He took on bowtie boy many years ago over the same thing. This man, while hilariously funny, is also consistent.

[Doctor_J]

82. Olbermann has not been irresponsible

[tavalon]

83. Nowhere near as irresponsible as Beck

But there really is too much talky talky across the board. It isn't even, but it is 24/7. Let Olbermann fight for Olbermann and let Stewart be Stewart (who is, btw, a flaming liberal and you know, on your side).

[marions ghost]

137. Exactly!

:thumbsup: MineralMan ++++++++++

People are missing the point of the rally and want to see it as an activist "answer" to the teabaggers, and of course that's how it's painted in the bipolar media.

It was a "we're not buying this whole #@^%@*&#(@#%* f'd up scenario" rally. And in that message, there is solidarity. And success in terms of empowerment, visibility, impetus to vote, confidence in a more lib/progressive agenda, etc. etc. There are many intrinsic benefits of people coming together to make a different kind of statement, and express the positive for a change. I did not see the rally as a call for further wimpiness (HOW ABSURD!) I was encouraged and inspired by it. And I believe our Dem leaders will be absorbing the message. Today I feel a little less alone in this wilderness we call America.

A gathering of this size should not be underestimated, nor belittled as a "failure." This is the kind of black & white thinking the rally was in fact, a stand against.

[leftstreet]

4. K&R

:thumbsup:

[MineralMan]

5. I'm not sure who's doing that, frankly.

Who's comparing anyone to the teabaggers? I didn't see any quotes like that in your post. I guess I'm not sure exactly where you're coming from on this. Nobody's stopping you from making waves. Nobody's stopping you from going to DC and bringing a huge group with you, as far as I know. In fact, there was just such a group a very short time ago in DC.

I really understand your frustration with the status quo, but my methods for trying to change it are different from yours and a lot more traditional, I guess. But, your efforts are valuable, too.

So, who's equating you with teabaggers?

[chervilant]

58. Wow...

I have quietly appreciated your posts on DU for quite some time now, MineralMan (and, not just because I'm a rock hound). However, if you've been following any of madfloridian's posts that address Mr. Obama's simplistic, misleading, and dangerous policies regarding public education, you'll have seen a plethora of DUers denigrating her and accusing her of being a teabagger (and worse).

While I would like to think we could 'rise above' the level of rhetoric vomiting forth from the likes of Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Malkin, Savage, and O'Reilly (I could continue this list, but I have to go teach algebra), I think we've got to define their rhetoric in stark, in-your-face terms--AND publicize the damage it causes (like a left-leaning, petite young woman getting wrestled to the ground and stomped on by a man more than twice her size).

And, that's only one teensy part of the effort we MUST make to stop the vile Corporate Megalomaniacs who've usurped our politics and our media.

[Ozymanithrax]

7. Perhaps you should be more like a teabagger.

Perhaps you and a few friends should appear every time one of our local, County, State, and national representatives hold a town hall or a fund raiser and scream your questions at them and demand equal representation.

Perhaps you send get people to send thousands of letters to their offices and demand they vote the way you want them to.

Perhaps you should get noisy and loud.

Just don't misspell the signs.

I agree with John and Colbert that our biggest problem is that the two sides are starkly polarized, and refuse to compromise. I agree with Ooberman most of the time, but I can still see that he is just a light reflection of the dark side.

Our media, that once went under the proud name of news is just a machine to polarize right and left and keep us apart. It is a natural product of a system that created modern media to drive political thought in a predictable manner.

[madfloridian]

10. No, our biggest problem is that their side is so dead wrong.

And we are supposed to be sweet and courteous and not point it out to them.

You really just lost me when you said Olbermann was "a light reflection of the dark side."

[MineralMan]

12. If by their side, you mean the teabaggers, I don't think anyone

wants anyone to be sweet and courteous to them. They deserve all the ridicule and counter activity that can be mustered. I sure saw a lot of the ridicule at the Stewart rally towards the teabaggers. It was pointed and intelligent.

[defendandprotect]

105. T-baggers are simply the GOP's brown shirts ....

right wing can only rise on violence --

stolen elections -- lies.

This is fascism crossing the threshold!

[marions ghost]

139. Again ++++

seconding that!

Intelligent ridicule--that's the way we do it, rather than stomping heads. It can hurt bad, too.

[Ozymanithrax]

19. They have their demagogues and media pushing American to the right...

That push brought people like Olberman to try and push back. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction or reflection. If we were less polarized they would be doing something else.

Nor do I think that talking nice to the right will work.

[dave29]

24. you can be sweet and courteous while driving a stake through someone's heart

I see it done all the time. Screaming louder does not change minds. The quality of one's argument, and yes, how it is delivered, does.

[pattmarty]

27. totally agree with your reply AND your post. Did you see the Chris......

.........Hedges piece?

[bettyellen]

68. do you think that your message will sway anyone at all Indy or on the right?

i;d call it preaching to the choir, and ineffective.

[madfloridian]

71. So your solution is NOT to tell them they are wrong.

Well, hell, we have not called them out on much at all for years now.....and I don't see that working well at all.

So I must be careful what I say.

[bettyellen]

73. never said that, the solution is to get people to turn away from the infammatory BS on TV and find

out what is really going on from less partisan extremists. the solution is to get people to realize that the media is helping big business divide and conquer everyone with their infammatory partisan bullshit.

it was not about me or you, or about citizens being quiet, they never said that once- you misinterpeted it because you made it about you. It's not.

it was about getting people to see past the fake fear and anger that is thrown at them 24.7 , and look for answers instead of pointing fingers. Stirring up more anger just makes people more entrenched.

I can;t belive you missed the whole point and think it should have been a partisan rally. the cspan callers many conservative enjoyed the rally, couldn;t say much bad about it. i bet it made a lot of republican voting wives and indes think twice at the crap that passes as news these days.

[madfloridian]

78. See! That is exactly what pisses me off. I never said that at all.

It is more important to make sure that the left is kept in their place than to actually read what is written.

We are probably going to see the results of the party's urging to us to stay in place quietly.

[bettyellen]

96. im sorry, but the list of things that piss you off is a bit long.

you mischaracterized what I said completely.
and what you have described as what you wanted Stewart to do, sounds pretty partisan to me. But you cant seem to actually clarify for me how Im wrong, you're actually not interested in a sane discussion ...and are again blaming Stewart for what you percieve to be the parties failings. Guess what, that;s a whole other topic, and you don;t seem at all willing to discuss the one at hand.
Now I understand why you are taking the rally so personally. You want to huff and puff and rant on about anything but the rally.
Guess what? Wrong thread. Later!

[unapatriciated]

135. His tunnel analogy at the end sums it up very nicely.

(I'm paraphrasing here, the vid at the link has the speech)

In our daily lives we manage to work together and get things done, we do it every day. There will always be those jerks who do not want to work together but the majority of us recognize that they are the extreme not the norm.
There will always be darkness and the light at the end of the tunnel may not always be the promised, sometimes it's just New jersey.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7202185-jon-stewarts-rally-to-restore-sanity-closing-speech-video

Just like in my daily life I agreed with some of what Jon said but was not enraged by what I disagreed with.
At the end of the day we all manage to solve our problems and work together in our daily lives.

I was at the rally and what I came away with was hope not the despair I have been feeling for months. To see and speak to so many people who share my beliefs was uplifting and so not what we see 24/7 in the media,
Thousands upon Thousands of fellow Americans who care. That's what that rally gave me.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

106. We have to STOP the right wing violence which is excalating --

THAT's what Jon Stewart should have been stressing --

Words which call for violent action -- as Beck has been doing!

We've had more than 50 plus years of right wing political violence in plein air!!

THAT's how the nation has been moved to the right --

We have one right wing party now and one radical right wing party -- !!!

[defendandprotect]

101. How often does MSM suggest that the "pro-life murderers" are wrong ... ???

Or that right wing violence is wrong?

Seems to be a very side issue -- if covered at all???

[Enthusiast]

115. The M$M won't even

suggest it is wrong. Again, right on, defendandprotect!

[sabrina 1]

20. Could you post one lie on major issue that Keith Olbermann

has told the public? I mean on the scale of Fox 'analysts' regarding eg, WMDs, Mushroom Clouds type of lie. Or even a smaller lie would do.

I want MORE Keith Olbermanns' shouting down the lies.

We had decades of silence from the Left while the Right screamed lies all over the airwaves, and what that got us was eight, long tragic years of George Bush.

I credit the emergence of people like Keith to set the record straight, with the Democratic gains since 2006.

Stewart is mimicing the MSM with this false claim. But maybe he has to, he works for them after all. And it's not as if he himself doesn't do exactly the same thing, which is WHY people like him.

If Keith can be equated with Fox, so can Stewart.

[Ozymanithrax]

23. I think what John and Colbert were saying is that...

in our polarized nation neither the Olbermans and Maddows or the Beck's and Limbaughs are doing us any real good.

I may agree with Olberman, but that doesn't mean I think the is any less polarizing than Beck. If we don't find some way to move away from this stark polarization of our nation it will fall apart. Lincoln said it best, a house divided against itself can not stand.

And you called for any lie and then just said lies on the scale of Beck. Those are two different things, and neither is to the point. It isn't about being right and wrong, but finding solutions.

Our problem is that the sides are not willing to compromise and solve the problems we face. Demagoguing on the right or left, with lies or truth is not the solution, it only serves to drive us father apart.

[madfloridian]

38. So we remain silent and let them shout louder?

The more our Democrats and media have urged bipartisanship, the louder the teaparty gets and the more annoying.

Yet, we are to remain silent and not call them on their lies?

[Ozymanithrax]

48. Not saying we should remain silent..just recognize that what we do isn't working.

Problems are not being solved. So maybe standing on a soapbox and screaming liar isn't the best course.

[madfloridian]

55. Problems are not being solved because our party ignores us.

It ignores those of us who are correct on issues and caters to the right wing.

The problems are not being solved because our party refused to do so.

[bettyellen]

74. and Jon Stewart was supposed to fix that? How?

[madfloridian]

79. Oh, good lord.

Good bye for a while.

[bettyellen]

91. i get it, you're one of those shouters. good luck with that!

[defendandprotect]

152. Only YOU are suggesting that. Do you actually find right wing behavior "sane".... ???

Nothing about right wing violence has been disturbing for you?

How about our half century or more of right wing political violence?

[bettyellen]

198. this thread is to bash Stewart for what exactly? Not planning a totally different sort of rally....

and not one about the media- which is all it was.. Sorry, I disagree, I think he reached more people this way, and it;s a great step.
He;s right, all this hostility gets us no where with a lot of people. They are turned off, I'm turned off to 90% of it too.
I think it would have been totally pointless to preach to hs choir. Sorry.

[defendandprotect]

199. Presumably, you're talking about something not quite clear .....

while what the rest of us are talking about doesn't seem to be clear to you!

What I'd recommend is what we've been saying about the rally and the criticism of

Stewart -- i.e. -- it needs MORE discussion -- more clarifying.


Certainly, I understand that Schultz would take exception at being singled out

by Stewart for videos he's shown of T-baggers spitting at Congressmen!

I'd quite well understand Olberman, Schultz, Maddow or any Democrat objecting to

being compared to Limbaugh or Beck!

He;s right, all this hostility gets us no where with a lot of people. They are turned off, I'm turned off to 90% of it too.

I'd also lend my personal concerns re "hostility" because it is even way beyond hostility

with T-baggers moving into the realm of actual violence now. Did you fail to see it --

do you acknowledge that?

There is only one way the right wing can rise and that is via political violence -- and we've

had more than 50+ years of that here in America. Stolen elections and lies are also a large

part of their continuing dirty tricks.

We've had decades of Limbaugh and right wing control of the press -- and constant swiftboating.

It is time the LEFT suitably responded.

But -- I would advocate that we all keep our eye on rising levels of rightwing violence.

Pro-life murderers are not the only ones on the right to use violence when they are frustrated in

their goals.

[bettyellen]

200. got it, you wished he had picked a different topic for his rally

that;s pretty darmed clear.
oh well, I loved it. and you can keep wishing and hoping and bolding stuff and shouting doen;t make your wishes come true.
sorry, but he did what he set out to do very wel, his intent was not the same as yours. you do know that don't you?

[defendandprotect]

201. You're more anxious to put words in someone else's mouth than to use

your own words --

Or, perhaps you don't understand my comments?

I loved the idea of the rally -- I do appreciate also what Schultz and Olbermann

are saying -- and objections of Democrats to being compared to Beck and Limbaugh.

Do you agree with those comparisons?

Nor do I think you speak for Jon Stewart -- rather I think he is rational enough

and strong enough to accept criticism and to make himself clearer. I have every

confidence that he will do that!


Bye --

[bettyellen]

206. I appreciate what Olberman and Schultz say, but not always how they say it

same goes for quite a few DUers, They don;t listen, they just yammer on at the top of their lungs and it wears on a person. So pehaps you don't understand what a huge turn off all the bluster can be, but it is for many people.
Perhaps you don't understand that choosing sides is kind of foolish when you're trying to be non-partisan? It wasn;t meant to be at all about content it was about deivery, and you keep conflting the two. Pretending to be perfect is bullshit, and the we are right they are wrong approach would result in more closed minds, we have enough of that.

[defendandprotect]

153. Our party is ignoring us because it's too busy catering to elites and pro-corporates ....$$$ .....

and sadly too often in back room deals --

the public knows that they have been duped --

unfortunately, they never had a Plan B -- "just in case" -- in mind.

And they evidently still don't--!!

If we are going to have a ton of liberal/progressives today not voting there sure

as hell had better be a Plan B somewhere to be found!!!



:)

[defendandprotect]

149. In finding a smattering of liberal press -- Olberman/Maddow to be the villians here ....

you're missing quite a bit --

Elites have always had control of our government from day 1 --

It's been a constant battle for a true government of the people --

and it's far from over.

We've had more than a half century of right wing political violence which also targeted

any Democrats who moved to do something about it while they still had some power.

We've had not only presidents assassinated but major political leaders and candidates

assassinated -- and now even potential leaders are assassinated before they rise.

All of this continues to go unacknowledged by our corporate-press.

We've had elections stolen -- 2000 and 2004 -- and we daily gain insight into the

duplicity and heavy-hend of the right wing when they are able to exert their influence

over elections or government.

What you are mostly ignoring is right wing political violence --

The right wing cannot rise EXCEPT thru political violence.

There is no measure whatsoever of anything similar on the part of the LEFT -- not in

language, nor in deed.

Hard to say what you are attempting to do other than to try to still the voices on the left.

If anything we need less right wing corporate-press and more Olbermann's and more Maddows --

more Schultz.

What we all need to keep our eye on is right wing violence --

historically, it is the only way the right wing can rise.

[Bette Noir]

46. When has Maddow ever shouted? Or do you believe everything Palin says?

Jon didn't include Maddow in his montage of loons, anyway. He knows she's one of the quiet ones, if you don't.

And it's "Jon," not "John." Check the credits.

[Ozymanithrax]

50. Wow, accused of believing Palin because I disagree with you doesn't make me...

one of them.

Even if he did not put her there she is part of a system that pushes hyper polarization rather than demanding solutions. I agree with about everything she says, that doesn't mean she is the solution.

[defendandprotect]

154. You "agree with about everything Sarah Palin says" ....???

I agree with about everything she says, that doesn't mean she is the solution.

What you are ignoring or failing to see is right wing political violence --

We've had more than a half century of it in plein air.

That is the ONLY way the right wing can rise.

And there is nothing at all like that on the left -- nor should there ever be.

[Moonbat2]

54. cat fight

[AlbertCat]

51. I may agree with Olberman, but that doesn't mean I think the is any less polarizing than Beck.

Olberman is advocating violence?

Maddow is explaining conspiracies everywhere....they're coming to get you because...oh... Rockefeller Plaza has art deco sculptures in it?

Both of them are lying all the time...for 3 hours daily on the radio AND an hour in prime time TV?

You think they are both polarizing....even though one side is trying to get at the truth, and the other is lying and using religion to dupe rubes?



You are an idiot then.

[defendandprotect]

158. Where is this BS propaganda coming from re "polarization" by leftwing ... what a joke!

We've had nothing at all equal to Limbaugh who's been on the scene now for what ... 20 years?

Where is our Glen Beck? Who'd want anything like it on the left, anyway?

We have a totally corporate-controlled right wing press for decades now --

from Crossfire to the inane shows on Sundays. Wm. Buckley a prime host on PBS for decades!

Who would possibly believe this nonsense?


Only in the last 3-4 years have we even had Olbermann making a response and last two years

now Maddow. That's pretty much it. Schultz also added later.

And already the right wing is crying they can't compete?

Where is the equivalent of the right wing FAUX NEWS on the left?

What absolute nonsense this is -- and it seems a bit orchestrated?

[sabrina 1]

52. Well, I see you couldn't produce any lies. I could, without

even thinking too hard, make a long list of lies told by the Rightwing Noise Machine that actually DID affect elections. Have you forgotten, eg, the Swift Boat Veterans? How they turned a war hero into a coward and a coward into a hero? And that's just one of hundreds of examples.

Should we have compromised with those professional, well-funded smear merchants? Well, we did in a way. They were not challenged until it was too late. Kerry thought that not fighting back was the best strategy. I still talk to people who think Kerry lied about his war record and that Bush was a heroic fighter pilot.

Thanks but no thanks, I never want to go back to that period when every day I wished for someone like Keith or Ed or Rachel, but there was no one there.

Notice it doesn't happen so easily anymore? That when they try, Ed and Keith and Rachel are there to correct the lies.

You are absolutely wrong when you say that they have made no difference. What you are saying is that one side should be allowed to control the message and we should be polite and nice and allow them to lie, rather than face them down.

Out of interest, how do you compromise with a liar? Especially one who is being funded by Big Business to do just that? Did Stewart give any instructions about how you should ignore lies and smears and still expect the public to be informed?

When they stop lying, there can be compromise. But that is not going to happen since they are paid millions to be propagandists and the fact that they take that money to lie to the American people demonstrates they are people of no conscience.

I wonder, did they get it wrong after WW11 when they prosecuted the propagandists for the part they played in the Holocaust?

To say that the media has no influence on people is simply wrong. I have yet to meet a Fox Viewer who does not firmly believe the lies they hear each day because they have no other information to counter them. But I HAVE seen people change their minds after getting new information.

The press is not called the 'fourth estate' for nothing.

[go west young man]

107. Great post. Very well put.

The progressive left can't roll over and we definitely know there is no compromise with righties.
We must be better with our arguments and louder and more aggressive. I love Stewart and Colbert
but to compare Keith Olbermann to that propagandist bullshit that is Faux News is the dumbest
thing I've ever seen John Stewart do. The fact of the matter is that Olbermann has the truth on his side
and that's something we should all be fighting for.

[Enthusiast]

118. Oh, baby!

Wonderful post! We have a historical example of what happens when one side is silenced. Silence in the face of this massive insane misinformation campaign is a recipe for disaster.

[TicketyBoo]

123. A question?

Out of interest, how do you compromise with a liar? Especially one who is being funded by Big Business to do just that? Did Stewart give any instructions about how you should ignore lies and smears and still expect the public to be informed?

Out of interest, what "instructions" would you have expected from Stewart? if this had been a 100% "Go liberals, go Democrats!" rally, how many Independent, Republican, and less liberal/more conservative people would have simply turned it off and not been educated to the extent they were?

I think it was played about right. Stewart knows just as well as we do that there is no equivalency there, but in order to get the other side to watch at all, this is the way he had to play it. If that's what it takes to get some of those blind followers of the Tea Party to watch (and maybe learn), I'm willing to watch that tradeoff. Chris Matthew apparently understood it, judging from his commentary on the rally; it appears that maybe Keith Olbermann did not, although the commentary tonight was much gentler than his comments on Twitter. It looked like maybe he was a little hurt over it. It seems pretty obvious that his suspension of "Worst Person in the World" is in response to Jon Stewart's criticism. I think he was wounded a bit.

[sabrina 1]

202. I just felt slightly sick when I read this:

I think it was played about right. Stewart knows just as well as we do that there is no equivalency there, but in order to get the other side to watch at all, this is the way he had to play it. If that's what it takes to get some of those blind followers of the Tea Party to watch (and maybe learn), I'm willing to watch that tradeoff.

I really don't know how to respond to that. It is the equivalent of being willing to watch an innocent person be accused of a crime to appease a mob of ignorant morons. It is a despicable thought, let alone something any decent person would actually do.

Chris Mathews? I stopped watching Mathews years ago after he made a complete fool of himself drooling over faux 'tough guy, fighter pilot, war hero' George AWOL Bush. That was bad enough, but when he said this: (paraphrased)

Look at him, Look at Bush, he looks like a hero, I mean women love men like that. Can you imagine a Liberal, I mean someone like George McGovern dressed like that, looking like a tough guy, like a hero'?

I had no trouble imagining George McGovern 'looking like a tough guy, dressed like that' because George McGovern was a WW11 fighter pilot and a war hero! And as for women 'loving someone who LOOKS LIKE a tough guy?' Is that what he thinks of women? That they cannot tell the difference between the real thing (McGovern) and a coward like Bush who went AWOL rather than fight in a war he supported?

Matthews revealed a whole lot about himself when drooled over a fake 'hero' and then stupidly chose a real war hero to use as an example of a 'wimpy' liberal. He's a stupid man who yells a lot. That's about it. I despise the man.

And of course Matthews 'understood' throwing decent people into the gutter with the worst of the worst of our society for some perceived benefit. He is not a man of integrity. Keith otoh, or Ed Schultz would never consider doing such a thing. Both have far too much integrity.

I cannot believe that you are willing to sacrifice two people who have STOOD UP to the lies and the smears because you think we have to do that to appease the right?

You want to lie to get the truth to liars?

I think Keith Olbermann should be the one, NOT YOU or Jon Stewart to decide if he wants to sacrifice himself in order to try to talk to people who need DEPROGRAMMING, before anyone can talk to them.

Stewart is in business. He doesn't want to lose viewers so he's willing to sacrifice decent, honest people to keep his numbers up is what you are saying. How despicable. I have talked to rightwingers for nearly eight years and I can guarantee that I never sacrificed anyone nor had to, to be able to do so.

The more I read here, the more disgusted I get, with the 'left'. Poor Keith, I guess he must be feeling pretty betrayed by those voiceless people, (and we were voiceless before Keith) that he used his voice to speak for. The left and the right. Sometimes I wonder if there is any difference between them when it comes to integrity.

[defendandprotect]

160. Exactly .... and we had a damned long wait to even get Olbermann... and two years later, Maddow--!!

Otherwise, we had a left wing vacuum --

and little or no response by Democrats -- the few who tried, were ridiculed by the

rw corporate-press -- or their words drowned out by right wing ridicule and/or more

swiftboating.

Thanks but no thanks, I never want to go back to that period when every day I wished for someone like Keith or Ed or Rachel, but there was no one there.

And, little that we have had -- Jon Stewart, Olberman, Maddow, Schultz --


We've had nothing like Limbaugh who's been spreading his smears and filth for two decades or more.

Nothing like a Glen Beck and his insane and vile performances.

Nothing like the myriad numbers of right wing think tanks spewing rw propaganda 24/7 --

from PNAC to CATO and Heritage Foundation.

Everything the rightwing has is bought and paid for -- from the Christian Coalition and Dobson

and Bauer to today's KOCK BROS' T-Baggers!!


Thanks for the clarity, Sabrina!!

:)

[defendandprotect]

102. What --??? You're equating Olberman/Maddow with Beck and Limbaugh....?????

That's a pretty far fetched comparison, I must say!! Wow!!

How do you want any of us to compromise with elites who want slave labor?

Where do you want to compromise with "pro-life murderers" -- ??

How much more of the safety net are you will to compromise away -- ???


As the previous poster mentioned, name any LIE that Olberman has been pushing -- please!!

Additionally, if you are as convinced of this "polarization" as you say, please name some

of the "compromises" you think the LEFT should be making! I'd love to hear them!!

[Enthusiast]

117. If we remain silent our fate

will be sealed. And we have the historical evidence to support this.

[RaleighNCDUer]

191. If you can't see the difference between right and wrong

there IS no solution.

[Enthusiast]

116. I agree with you, sabrina 1.

Lies from the right have been as extreme as their politics. At least Keith and Rachel call them out for their lies.

[Bette Noir]

45. Disagree. When has Olbermann ever lied?

[defendandprotect]

103. I'm waiting for the answer to that, as well--!!!

:eyes:

[Starry Messenger]

8. Moderates take a Goldilocks approach to their views.

They think they've arrived at "just right" between two extremes that they fail to understand. Instead, politics should be like a union negotiation. If you aim really high, you might get some of what you want. If you shoot for the middle, then the boss knows exactly how low he can talk you down. It's simple logic.

[madfloridian]

11. And it is not working. It's a failed moderation.

[Starry Messenger]

15. Is it meant to work?

Sometimes I think it is doing exactly what it is seems meant to do, keeping the proles from upsetting the applecart by getting too loud. But that's just me. :D

[madfloridian]

81. I wonder sometimes, too.

The call that came the day after the elections in 2008...for "post-partisanship" was really creepy and strange.

And that is exactly what has happened. Post partisan means a one party system. We are just about there.

[leftstreet]

14. Moderates push the Ruling Class agenda, until THEIR porridge is cold

then, all of a sudden.... :cry:

[Starry Messenger]

16. They are eaten by bears?

Oops, I said that out loud!

[leftstreet]

18. ...

[Starry Messenger]

21. Colbert: Teabagger or secret Marxist??

We report, you decide!

[Poboy]

13. Recommended.

[OHdem10]

17. As long as the Right continues on its path, the Left has no choice

but to give them(GOP)as good as they send.

Any fair and reasonable person knows the Left's worst
behavior does not begin to touch the Right.

I would say the Left did not fight back hard enough
in the beginning and thus the Right had Free Reign.

The Elites on the Left try to keep Activists etc
under control. They would rather we give them money
for candidates and then shut up and sit down. Since
we criticize our own, they want us toned down.

This turning the other cheek, loses election.
American Culture has undergone a change. There
was a time and I remember it vividly when we taught
to just walk away from fights. Yes, you were considered
a bigger person for it. Now, you had better stand
and fight. Walking away makes you a first class wimp.

I am not sure Stuart meant the Left have to tone it
down and thus fight with hands tied behind the back.

"These are hard times, not end times."

[pattmarty]

30. The "left" in this country died circa 1975 after Viet Nam and after Civil......

......Rights bill was passed, they just dried up and drifted away. Not until Air America, Olberman, Michael Moore and a few others STARTED speaking out and other "celebs" joined in has the "left" had a resurgence. A great (forgotten and belittled) American is Ralph Nader who warned us about large corporations and banks for fucking 40 yrs, and is STILL belittled by some here.


I got fucking news for a lot here and in the Democratic party that think they're left or liberal or the new term "progressive", Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter AND Barack Obama ARE NOT leftists by any fucking stretch of the imagination.

[ChiciB1]

40. And What YOU Just Said Is Exactly How I Feel! Carter Was More

Progressive for me, but look what happened to him.

We DO need our liberals, we really do, don't care what others say! The Wingnuts can't be further to the RIGHT, so WHY NOT??
:shrug:

[Enthusiast]

121. Plus fucking one! nt

[defendandprotect]

162. Well, we've had 50 years of right wing political violence ....

and betrayals by Democrats on the war -- LBJ's "Gulf of Tonkin Resolution" --

Nixon/Kissinger .... "peace is at hand."

People have woken up from any belief in war and yet they still the right wing still

finds a way to lie us into more of it!


Nader has been fighting this corporate fascism since his earliest days -- probably

close to 50 years now! Michael Moore has been fighting and doing more than his share.

We've only had Olbermann a few years -- Maddow two years after him -- and Schultz the same.

That's pretty much it -- Randi Rhodes, Schultz, Thom Hartmann on radio --

and that little bit is making the right wing cry?

Good for us!!

:evilgrin:

Let's follow the FDR tradition re fighting the right -- and it wasn't to be silent!!

[Enthusiast]

120. Excellent post, OHdem10!

I agree with your every word.

[defendandprotect]

161. We should take our example of behavior from FDR .... who was not shy about responding--!!!

And anyone who thinks that FDR was "polarizing" in chasing down the right wing

and holding them to accountability is confused, indeed -- !!

[Joanne98]

22. I'm sick of hearing "it's both of us" FUCK STEWART!

[nolabear]

159. Well THAT changes my mind.

Reasoned, generous, makes me proud. Chieez.

[truebrit71]

25. The meme "both sides do it" is as big a lie as the "liberal media" myth...

..

[madfloridian]

29. Exactly right.

It's time to point it out loudly now, not so politely.

[truebrit71]

33. I made mention of this in my blog about the rally too...

....

[defendandprotect]

163. Jon Stewart made some poor decisions ... and trust that he will be correcting them....

The left is NOT like the right--

violence separates the right from the left --

so does bullying, intimidation and control of the corporate-press!

And ... we might recall ... stolen elections and lies!!

[pattmarty]

26. Chris Hedges has a excellent article on this over at Truthout today.

[madfloridian]

62. Hi, do you have a link to that article?

I just went to truthout and could not find one by Hedges. I like his work, BTW

[Doctor_J]

77. I think it's at truthdig

[madfloridian]

84. Thanks, will check there.

:hi:

[pattmarty]

131. Funny, I can't find it either. It was a headline piece. I'll keep my eye out

[Skidmore]

28. Frankly, it is past time for a lot of people so sit down

and STFU and start engaging in active listening based upon reasoned dialogue...on both sides.

[defendandprotect]

164. Is that what you would have said to FDR ....?

Was FDR a leftwing Glen Beck?

Rather, we should be following FDR's example as he chased down the right wing --

fearlessly!!

The right wing succeeds only by violence and we've seen plenty of right wing political

violence over the last half century!!

[DirkGently]

31. Yep. Look who showed up at the "Let's be civil" rally. And who didn't. 'nuff said?

[Joe Fields]

32. You seem to have missed Stewart's point entirely.

I watched the entire rally. In both Stewart's and Colbert's way they were directing their point toward capitol hill and toward the radicals in the media.

Stewart did not tell us (the citizens) to be quiet. In fact, he did not call for capitulation. He said that we can have animus without becoming enemies.

[DevonRex]

34. I'm wondering how anyone could have watched the rally and come away

with the OP's conclusion. :crazy:

[bongbong]

35. Pretty much agree

It was disheartening for me to hear the old "both sides do the same thing" crapola from Stewart. Erring on the side of giving him the doubt, it was done to attract moderates to be more Liberal, but even that stretches things because there wasn't a whole lot of purely Liberal statements made from the stage.

Here is where the old chestnut "you're entitled to your opinion but not your own facts" comes into play. When you are "discussing" politics with some wingnut, you both have to agree to certain basic facts. The problem with the easily led dupes/drones/sheep on the right is that they get their "facts" from the liars on the radio.

The bottom line is that you JUST CAN'T BE CIVIL with people who think Obama is a Socialist, much less a Marxist, much less a Kenyan, much less a Nazi.

[madfloridian]

36. I have had people walk away from my home...

after I told them to stop offering to pray for me. I said it civilly, but it did not matter.

Two people we asked to come and give estimates on stuff just out of the blue wanted to pray for us. One of them even wanted to hold hands as we prayed.

It is just that way here. They have been allowed to think it is okay to do stuff like that.

It is not appropriate, and I told them so.

Once a person giving an estimate saw the Obama bumper sticker and left. He called back to say he would not do work for us.

[bongbong]

42. Crazy Florida

It must be maddening to live in such a place. I'm lucky to have spent most of my adult life in NYC (although not now). The insanity there, when it occurs to you, is much more entertaining.

As for religious types, I tell them I worship the son - Apollo. If pressed, I say all the problems of the modern world are due to the people turning their backs on the True Religion of Zeus, etal.

[madfloridian]

43. If I compiled episodes from here since Bush enabled the extreme right

in 2000 and 2004....it would read like a comedic book but it would be real.

[suzie]

127. Funny, I live in one of the most conservative counties in Florida and have never experienced

the kinds of anecdotal stuff you talk about.

The constant complaints about everything Floridian grow a little wearisome.

[ChiciB1]

37. Well, "madfloridian" I Certainly Applaud You LOUDLY! As A Floridian

who has taken a LOT OF CRAP, and heard so much garbage thrown around about those of us who have FOUGHT HARD to keep RUBIO & SCOTT out, your comments make me proud to stand with you.

We've agreed on so many other issues as well, but a TEA-BAGGER I AM NOT! Sure, I am to the left of Obama and I want/wanted him to succeed, but too many times my jaw has dropped on too many issues.

And yes, the Rally was a very nice, entertaining and uplifting show, but in the end we simply can't "middle of the road it" all the time. I UNDERSTAND coming together as a Nation, but when there are people who seem to be REAL threats to the Constitution, then IT'S TIME TO FIGHT BACK!

None of them are backing off, nor will they be once they get in office. Some say the Reid/Angle race is the worst of the worst, but I say the Senate race here in Florida REALLY is. It has Jebby for POTUS written all over it, and I can't understand why so many don't see this. IF Jebby wasn't planning to run for POTUS, he would have made his bid as Senator! Crist didn't want to play nice with him all the time, so Jebby went out and got himself RUBIO, who will now be his "boy" from here on out. It may be a stretch, but there just may be some thoughts that Jebby would pick "Rabid Rubio" as VP! It's not that far fetched to me. But then, I'm a the Tea-Bagger Traitor.

:scared: :puke: :nuke: AND :grr:

[madfloridian]

61. Wait till the world meets Senator Rubio and Governor Scott.

Their heads will spin when they hear them spout their nonsense.

It's pretty sad here.

[ChiciB1]

65. Yes, For Me I Have A FEAR I Never Had... I've Worked Hard For THAT

CHANGE thing, but here we are, Monday before Tuesday and I feel VERY frustrated and even more, I feel LOST!

If things go the way it's been predicted it will, this will be one of the WORST rides this state has ever seen. I like all the scary rides at Disney World, Busch Gardens, etc., but on those... they only last for a short time. THIS is going to be like nothing we've ever seen. I so wish I didn't feel this way, I really, really do. But, I am so very upset and AFRAID for Florida and America all at once.

What else can I say, it's overwhelming and I feel USELESS!

[madfloridian]

66. It is a new fear, that we will have those two.

I never thought anything like this would happen.

[October]

95. Survived Santorum and Specter

And now dread Toomey (and locally, Fitzpatrick and his ilk).

This is our country right now. We need every Dem we can get because there aren't nearly enough progressives. And Olbermann doesn't even vote.

A mell of a hess, as my grandmother used to say.

[glitch]

39. Equating Olberman with Beck was totally unnecessary flamebait on Stewart's part.

It muddied his point rather than making it. And what's worse, it gave the liars justification to amplify their rhetoric.

Why? Because equating truth with propaganda gives the benefits of truth to propaganda.

Truth is not in the eye of the beholder, it exists independent of the beholder and has its own objective and verifiable basis in reality.

The idea that lies and truth are merely different opinions is toxic to reality. To equate them is not a moderate position, it's a neurotic one.

[pattmarty]

41. That is the "basic" difference between the left and right, the left..............

...........tells the truth (and can readily back it up with FACTS), the right either "tweaks" the facts to fit their narrative, takes facts or quotes out of context and adds their own "context" OR just plain fucking lies about it

[chervilant]

88. Oh, SNAP!!!

The idea that lies and truth are merely different opinions is not only toxic to reality, it's the bedrock upon which the Corporate Megalomaniacs have built their hate-mongering, fear-mongering Divide-the-Hoi Polloi propaganda machine! I am so disappointed in Jon's assertion, but I still hope it was a misstatement and not what he truly believes.

[Enthusiast]

122. Nice, chervilant !

It is the bedrock! Well said.

[Goblinmonger]

140. Nice strawman you built there.

Where exactly does Stewart ever even imply that "lies and truth are merely different opinions"?

[chervilant]

176. hmm...

Nice ad hominem you've thrown out there...

Stewart offered up a false equivalency regarding FOX and MSNBC, and that is the reason for my post. I had hoped Jon misspoke, but apparently he did not.

Please note that I deliberately chose your approach (sarcasm and condescension) to highlight what I had hoped Jon was attempting to convey: our personal, political, AND online discourse could and should be grounded in respect and diplomacy. I used to be all 'rose-colored glasses' about this, until years of vile and indefensible vitriol from the right convinced me that the worst offenders on the right are like the proverbial sandbox bully: the more you open your mouth to appease this bully, or advocate for diplomacy, the more sand you'll have to swallow.

Now, isn't it sad that so many here on DU resort to sarcasm and condescension?

[Goblinmonger]

178. Pointing out a fallacy is neither an ad hom nor sarcasm and condescension.

Please show me where he said what you said he did. He did not. But I'm willing to read the portion of the speech you give me where he did.

The irony of people blowing up what he said into an us vs them flamefest is just so dang rich.

[chervilant]

185. Nice of you

to so clearly illustrate my point.

[Goblinmonger]

190. So you aren't going to provide me the text where he says that?

Or is asking for that somehow sarcasm and condescension?

[glitch]

148. You're right, it is bedrock to the corps - they couldn't live without it. nt

[Goblinmonger]

138. He didn't compare them.

He didn't equate them, either. He said that they media is trying it's best to engage everyone in an "us vs them" mentality that makes them money. He said about 2 seconds in a large montage of a couple libs that were using hyperbole to make a point. Do you argue that they don't? And that isn't comparing them.

[chervilant]

187. Oh, for pete's sake:

Unfortunately, one of our main tools in delineating the two broke. The country's 24-hour politico pundit panic conflict-onator did not cause our problems, but its existence makes solving them that much harder. The press can hold its magnifying glass up to our problems and illuminate problems heretofore unseen, or it can use its magnifying glass to light ants on fire, and then perhaps host a week of shows on the sudden, unexpected dangerous-flaming-ant epidemic. If we amplify everything, we hear nothing.

Why don't you explain how the point Mr. Stewart made hereinabove is NOT representing the polar extremes of the 'pundit press corps' as equivalents?

And, please try to do so without being condescending or patronizing.

[Goblinmonger]

189. He says the media is the problem there.

Where does he say that Rush and Keith are equal in what they do wrong? He doesn't. He is blaming the media for the approach they take. No names are mentioned. This is a call for the media to change their approach.

[Bette Noir]

44. I agree 100% with what Keith Olbermann says 99.99% of the time.

Just about the only time I disagree with Jon Stewart is when he disagrees with KO. I was very disappointed in Jon that he included KO in his video montage of loons. What has KO ever said that was untrue?

And, just once, I wish Mr. President would compromise with those of us on the Left, instead of calling us names and reaching "across the aisle." Like Boehner would ever get his back.

[AlbertCat]

47. I am sick of the "every opinion is valid" crapola

And it's not just crazy "He's from Kenya!" or "Gays are destroying everything" type of opinions either

To think that "we need to lower taxes" without considering what we spend on the Pentagon is NOT a valid opinion.

To think Repugs are fiscally responsible and not consider the Reagan years and the Bush years is not a valid opinion either.

To think that tax cuts for the wealthy creates jobs and stimulates the economy without considering where we are after 10 years of it, that won't fly either.


The polarization is what is destroying government. Who's doing that? Who votes "NO" as a block? 100% voting "no"? Who is holding up things in the Senate? Both parties? I think not.

Who is compromising and giving up things to try to work together? Both parties? Nope.

The polarization IS the Repugs fault.... buttressed heavily by RELIGION. The Repugs gave the divisive overly credulous religionists and reality deniers a taste of power and, with their uncompromising stubbornness to the point of it being a virtue to ignore facts and what is happening in front of your face... they gave them power and now it's eating our country. Thinking with one's gut will just make things worse... obviously. Calling BS...loudly and forcefully, while showing it's BS is what needs to be done over and over and over....

[madfloridian]

63. Good point, They are giving validity to untruths...

when they refuse to criticize the awful things these groups are spouting.

[madmax]

111. Great rant - loved it nt

[TicketyBoo]

124. Yep.

Calling BS...loudly and forcefully, while showing it's BS is what needs to be done over and over and over....

And Jon Stewart does it. Over and over and over.

The tack taken with the rally is likely to gain him some new viewers, and maybe open some eyes. If he hadn't done it the way he did, if it had been totally partisan, there would have been no hope for that happening.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[txaslftist]

53. Yeah, the teabaggers should STFU.

Sure, they are losing their jobs like we are, but it's the GOP's policies that lead to that, and they have aligned with the GOP, so they should STFU. Sure, their kids are going to be just as deeply in debt as our kids, but that's the fault of their ignorant voting in the past, so they should STFU. Sure, their kids are going off to fight and die in foreign wars or come back basket cases, but the Pubbies started those wars, so they should STFU. Sure, their towns and cities are bleeding red ink and jobs like a recent untreated amputee, but that's because of policies put in place by Republicans, so they should STFU.

Any American who ever voted for a Republican should just shut up, quit voting, and stay home. Forever.

They aren't even real Americans anymore if they think like that.

[Kennah]

56. No new "First They Came ..."

2008 brought calls that Obama is a socialist.

2010 has seen overtly racist and homophobic rhetoric, and the stomping of the heads of political opponents.

Will 2012 bring a new Reichstag fire?

Will 2014 bring a new Kristallnacht?

Is it really a good idea to sit by quietly "and just get along" while the teabaggers become more violent?

Speak out now to avoid a new 21st century version of "First They Came ..."

[madfloridian]

57. Good point. We can not keep sitting by quietly.

[Joe Fields]

182. Here is another good point.

So, we've been voting all along. I haven't missed a vote since I was 18. I'm 54 years old. My vote and your vote hasn't stopped them yet. They are still coming for us, AND at an accelerated pace. So, now what? The only thing that can seem to stop them is is massive, "Vietnam era" type marches and demonstrations. We don't have enough backbone yet, or haven't worked up enough collective indignation and outrage to get our asses from in front of the television or our computers to make any kind of difference we need. Until then, nothing will change. We can vote from now until doomsday (which is just on the horizon) and it won't stop them.

And let me be clear. When I say them, I include the democratic sellouts and hypocrits on capitol hill, as well as the republicans.

[McCamy Taylor]

59. Tea Party is funded by corporate fascists. But, I suspect Stewart does not understand that.

He is probably not real big into Marxism.

[madfloridian]

60. I think they all know it, just not politically correct to say it.

It needs to be pointed out all the time.

[defendandprotect]

100. THAT is a point that should be repeated over and over -- 24/7 .....

Finanaced by KOCH BROS and run out of a PR firm --- guaranteeing they get exposure.

Not sure how many T-baggers themselves know it?

Or the general public --

Everything the right wing does is bought -- GOP gave start-up funding for Christian Coalition --

Richard Scaife funded Dobson's group -- other wealthy GOP financed Bauer's org.


With Wm. Buckley's death -- CIA -- we found out that CIA, which took money from any right

wing source, including KKK and John Birch Society, funded Repug Congressmen -- two mentioned

were Sen. Strom Thurmond and Rep. Gerald Ford!

Pat Buchanan has been given money by them -- Sen. Jesse Helms --

Evidently many more we don't know the names of yet!

CIA funding was often hidden in Federal school budgets -- sometimes as much as 50% -- !!

:)

[EmeraldCityGrl]

192. Stewarts brother, Larry Leibowitz ( Stewart changed his name)

is COO of the New York Stock Exchange. I suspect Stewart understands the corporate fascists funding the
Teabaggers better than you give him credit for.

[BrklynLiberal]

195. Wow. I did not know that. Sure must give Jon some insight into what the f**k is going on.

[jgraz]

64. Nailed it.

[bobbolink]

67. Bookmarked for TRUTH and real sanity.

:applause:

[Joe Fields]

197. You eat your own, huh?

What do you think the Daily Show has been doing for the last several years? Short memory?

[bobbolink]

205. And good morning to you, Joe Fields. I see you are in the usual peaceful mood.

[tavalon]

69. He did it to keep his credibility

Even if he didn't keep his personal political leanings quiet most of the time, if he didn't nuance that segment some, it would have negated what he was trying to say. He didn't make it even - there were 4 right wing whackos to every one example from the left. The left is far more reasonable and he knows it (partly because he's a lefty but also because he has a working brain), but to be able to be heard, he needed that to not be front and center.

I thought the whole rally, while occasionally clumsy and with a misstep or two, was sublime.

[JVS]

75. Bullshit does not keep credibility, it costs it.

[defendandprotect]

99. I'm rooting for Jon to straighten this out -- right wing political violence is no joke....

it's what we have to keep our eyes open to --

and it's the ONLY way the right wing can rise --

that and stolen elections and lies!

Schultz isn't happy -- Olbermann isn't happy -- but their rational people

who will talk it out. The right wing doesn't want to talk it out --

they want to TRASH IT OUT!!

Not a good state of mind for learning anything -- even when it would help them!!

[tavalon]

110. That's why it's easy for me to forgive his covering his tracks

That wasn't a false equivalency, it was pointing out something really obvious without being painted into a liberal corner.

[defendandprotect]

166. We'll see....however, FDR is an example we should following in talking to right wing ....

AND, we have to remember that we have nothing on the left such as

a FAUX NEWS network --

we've had no Limbaugh out there for 20 years spewing right wing propaganda --

and certainly no Glen Beck's I'm proud to say!

We've bought no think tanks as the right wing has done -- from Heritage to CATO -- to PNAC.

We have no real organization -- Chambers of Commerce and the thousands of corporate organizations

which present their monopoly positions.

We have no left wing lobbyists --

AND, we have had 50 years and more of in plein air right wing violence which is the only

way the right wing can rise! That and stolen elections - lies.

The LEFT is not the RIGHT and no one should suggest so!!

If FDR was "polarizing" then we need a hell of a lot more of it !!

[FirstTimeVoterAt37]

72. If KO is the most radical lefty they could find...

I'd say we're a lot more rational than I thought we were.

I'm not mad anymore, just very very disappointed. Excellent rally, excellent entertainment, excellent purpose. It's just a shame he went such a cowardly route to prove he's not an ebil hullywood librul at the finale.

I give Jon a Colbert-style wag of my finger.

[madfloridian]

76. Keith doing a good job defending himself tonight.

He should not have been compared in any way to the Beck types.

[Major Hogwash]

119. And in a week, we'll know if the grand experiment will work.

It won't.

But, we'll give it a week before we decide to return "Worse, Worst, and Worser" segment to the program.

Why wait a week?
Hell, take a month.
It won't change anything.

They -- the rightwingers -- don't watch your show, Keith!!
So, I'm going to tell him, return that segment to your program because it is a good segment.
But, drop the Friday night Thurber readings.

That's what I'm going to tell him . . . next week.
No, wait, I just told him today!!

[FirstTimeVoterAt37]

172. I agree on Worst Person, but I like the Thurber readings

That's just me though, I know it's not to everybody's taste.

But I DO really hope he brings back Worst Person.

[waiting for hope]

80. K&R

madfloridian, you are the best.

[donheld]

85. K & R

[Jakes Progress]

86. You are right.

The party may wake up too late. Or it may just remain in its triangulating coma until there is no party. At the very least, because they do not fly the progressive flag and argue from the left, the party is surely helping to move our country more and more to the right. Instead of joining bill o and syru p attacking the left, our party should be embracing the tenets that made us great. Had they been doing that all along, the right would not have gotten away with all that it has.

[33Greeper]

89. Keep up the fight

...but always keep it civil. Democrats always should take the higher road. It's what we do.

[xloadiex]

90. Exactly what I was trying to say earlier

but someone tried to "school" me and another appreciated the smack down I was given. +1

[chervilant]

92. Well,

madfloridian, please don't 'keep quiet'! I, too, live in a state where the fear-mongering, hate-mongering, divisive bullies far outnumber those of us who advocate for a healthier, happier nation--you know, a nation in which one can count on being gainfully employed, and having access to affordable health care, and having the pensions we've worked all our lives to enjoy.

Those who adjure us to 'keep quiet' or to 'be bipartisan' are the same poor wee souls who adjure secondary school students who are persecuted by bullies to 'stand up for yourself' or 'just ignore the bully, and s/he'll lose interest and go away.' What a load of crap!

Group hugs and singing 'Kumbayah' will not work with these bullies. Calling them consistently on their lies and their fear-mongering and their divisiveness is a mere first step in the right direction. I hope Obama gets a clue really SOON!

[madfloridian]

93. Yes. "Calling them consistently on their lies and their fear-mongering"

That is the only way to counter their harmful words.

[defendandprotect]

94. Exactly ...and I wouldn't be apologizing to anyone for being an FDR Democrat ....!!!

If that seems an equivalent to the right wing insanity right now to ANYONE

then they don't realize how far RIGHT politics have been moved ....


by right wing political violence over a half century --

by right wing targeting of Democratic liberals/progressives and their own party's moderates --

by right wing money buying T-baggers, Christian Coalition, NRA, Pro-life murderers --

by right wing computers and stolen elections --

by right wing propaganda being catapuled 24/7 --

[madfloridian]

104. Down down down.

interesting 3 so quickly.

[chervilant]

109. hmm...

Apparently, one mustn't address inordinate anger--and any resulting vitriol--if it comes from a DUer.

[Safetykitten]

108. Great post!

[Prometheus Bound]

112. Well said.

I'm happy to see so many people here get this.

Drives me crazy to see people get away with these false comparisons. People just take it in because well, it sounds so nice and reasonable. Fuck that! It's a lie.

[Enthusiast]

113. It would be a wonderful

world where Keith, Rachel and Ed wouldn't have to confront the lies of the RW head-on but that isn't the world we inhabit.

[The Uncola]

125. To put as gently as possible...

..I've passed the point of caring what the supposed "leadership" of any of the "political parties" in this Nation think or say about me speaking out at their lack of leadership and their FAILURE to serve the people who voted for and worked so hard to get them into office. As I head out to vote this morning, it is fairly clear to me that it probably is an exercise in futility. It's hard to measure how much the last two years have harmed my belief that our supposed democratic process is anything but a sham. Even with one of the largest majorities in a century, the party that claims to stand for me, did NOTHING to better my family's lot in life. Then to top it off, gave me and others like me, a ration of shit when we "dared" to speak up.

Today we find out the results of playing the nice guy buttkisser. If the "pundits and prognosticators" are correct, it ain't gonna be pretty. As for me, I'm not kissing any butt either way. I'm not going to "buck up and take it," either. Nor am I going to be surprised or "outraged" when the Regressives do exactly what they SAID they were going to do, strangle the remaining 2 years of the Obama term with one "investigation" after another. That's what happens when you let war criminals and thieves walk free without so much as a second glance, in the "spirit of bipartisanship and looking forward, not back."

Nice guys finish last.

[glowing]

129. I think Alex is going to take this one.... But the senate rave is one big mess.

I still don't know how I'm voting on that one today. I've saved the vote for later on. Ive never gone into an election not knowing what I'm going to vote for or on ever.

[Politicub]

130. The false equivalence left me feeling cold, too

It was great seeing the number of people who came out, but still disappointing that the left was thrown in with the Becks and Palins of the world near the end.

Using the measure of rational discourse and evidence, anyone who thinks that the left and right are somehow equivalent must not be paying attention.

I watched the rally with my somewhat apolitical husband, and he didn't really see the point of the whole thing. He asked me if they rented out the mall to film it because it was a big Comedy Central commercial.

[Goblinmonger]

141. His speech wasn't about left vs right

It was about a 24-hour media that makes a huge profit out of using fear to pit one side against each other in a black-and-white fashion. And they do. And he *fucking gasp* actually had the audacity to include about 2 seconds of Keith and Ed in the mix. Are you going to argue that they don't use hyperbole ("Worst Person in the World") and screaming (Ed? Really?) to push their point?

[Politicub]

143. I don't feel like I have the luxury of holding hands with those who would deny me of my civil rights

So yes, I do defend LGBT allies like Keith and Ed who offer rhetoric to counteract the lies of the right. IMHO it's naive to think that avoiding agitation will bring about change. So that's why I'm disappointed. The left and right aren't the same. The left's share of airtime is a sliver of the rights', so it's important to defend our public voices.

But what do I know? Maybe Stewart is leading us to the promised land of harmony and light and I'm too blind to see the forest for the trees.

[FedUp_Queer]

132. Can't Say I Disagree. However...

I know what I took away from the rally was that there are far more reasonable people than nutjobs. I also think that Stewart doesn't take himself too seriously. His feeling was to say to kill the anger (bad choice of words, perhaps). The fact is, and Stewart would say this, he's a comedian. The ones who should be calling for hard-core political demonstrations are the hard-core political people...party leaders, activists, etc., not Jon Stewart.

[marions ghost]

142. yes I agree

Of course the choir needs preaching to, in order to act politically and even to hear what politicians have to say. This is the nature of an abused, disenfranchised segment of the population--the choir (esp the younger ones) will not take it jammed down their throats, teabagger style. The message has to be tempered with real intelligence, a wide ranging perspective, wit and...(duh)FACTS.

Jon Stewart is brilliant. So is Colbert. They are a rock of sanity in an insane situation. They are for seeing and surviving and overcoming. I would not expect to hear specific calls to political action in that rally. Their scope is bigger. Theirs is a societal critique, which can be acted on in many different ways.

[MaeScott]

133. K and R. nt

[Waiting For Everyman]

136. Couldn't agree more, and your point is an important one, mad.

This goes back to our schools, which I know is a subject of interest to you: when one kid bullies another, and both are suspended. That didn't happen when us boomers were in school. But we now have a couple of generations who have grown up that way, with that kind of thinking ingrained in their experience.

The pollution of our population's thinking is the issue of false equivalence writ large. It goes to the overall theme that reality doesn't matter. Facts don't matter. Only "getting away with it" matters. "It" being, a con or a theft, or some other crime or abuse.

Ethics and justice are fast disappearing. It isn't just civility that's going, it's much worse than merely that.

Look at this election in terms of false equivalence - Dems didn't move fast enough, so instead of moving further and faster to the left, the electorate chooses to bring back the Repubs who caused the problem and obstructed the cleanup. THAT'S failure to distinguish between the solution and the problem.

It's a breakdown of sanity, after all. Jon Stewart in the end, was just promoting and celebrating his own success... at the expense of reinforcing what brought us to this scary place. Typical.

Yes (agreeing with your OP), when our house is on fire it's not a time to go out in the yard and make small talk with the neighbor who lit the match.

[droidamus2]

144. The problem

I think this is the same problem Obama has with 'bipartisanship'. Yes the goal of civility, working together to solve problems and mutual respect are admirable goals just like bipartisanship and we should never stop working towards them. On the other hand as people have pointed out if the other side won't (or either side) becomes so intransigent that they refuse to even discuss compromise, insist that it is their way or no way, spout slogans about how if you don't believe like them you are not a 'true American', denigrate your ideas as socialism, communism, nazism, etc and in general make it clear that they don't want to work together and will scream to make sure nobody hears their opponents ideas how do you reach that point where you can 'work together'? I don't know if I have the answer but I think we need that cathartic moment like they had during the McCarthy era when (don't remember who it was) the guy looked at McCarthy and said 'sir have you no shame'. We and I mean liberals,progressives, moderates, independents and those Republicans interested in a civil dialog about our problems and their solutions need to somehow get across to the 'rabid dog' crowd that it is not their ideas we dislike, though we may disagree, but their method of presenting them that we abhor. Must you yell, denigrate your opponents, in some cases lie and refuse to move an inch from your positions even when it is in your best interest as well as the interests of us all, see only you and yours and refuse to consider how your actions effect others in short 'have you no shame!'.

If we can get the right to understand that we realize the solutions will never be everything the most left wing people want and in our case should never be everything that the far right wing people want and the only area for solutions is somewhere in the middle then maybe we can start working together. Yes they won't always get their way, neither will the left, but we will move forward. The idea is that progressives and liberals are the engine that moves us towards the future with no fear but the conservatives should be the brakes that make sure the country doesn't get out of control.

[bagimin]

145. From a 55 year Floridian

I couldn't agree more.

[Bluenorthwest]

146. That was not a political event really.

And I feel most here are missing the point. Let's be blunt. The root of understanding the piece lies in the fact that it had dual points of view, and that Ozzy did not really wish to silence Peace Train Yusuf. It was a play. About not being a dick.
I flatly say that those who think the point was 'both sides do it' have missed the point by a mile. This was a narrative 'morality play', it was not a team sporting event. It was inclusive, as such public pieces of art always strive to be. Unlike political events, which are for 'us' and not 'them'.
Part of the point of this piece was that we are not the talking heads nor are we politicians, we are clowns and those who watch them, people out for some fun, who can in fact find humor in how the 'other side' see us, as well as in how we see them, people who understand that both things work in favor of the good. They dynamics of comedy and of politics are not the same at all. In comedy, he who holds status never rules the day. In politics, you seek to be the top dog, in comedy, you seek to be your choice of Marx Bros, whose characters were each of them jobless, penniless, and present without invitation. In politics, you want to be Margaret DuMont, who stood there never getting the jokes being made at her expense. In comedy, the little guy always wins, the true nature of status is revealed. In comedy, 'Colbert' will always 'loose' the day, because he is the high status guy. Not because of politics, because of how he is. And in a way that is beyond the petty politics of any given day, the 'winner' in comedy will always be the tramp, the guy saying we are all brothers, and making fun of the control freak rich guy.
It was billed as and was a double event. As a comedy event. Not as politics, and not as team sport. If nothing else, the criticism of the piece should be done in the context of what it was, which was a piece of theater.
I now will shut up.

[NJmaverick]

147. I disagree different sides of the same coin

both are destructive to their respective political parties. Both operate on anger rather than logic or reason. Finally neither offers up a viable means of governing our nation.

[YOY]

204. Oh mav!

Always seeing things in your own special way!

[flamingdem]

150. We're beyond blaming the media, or should be, let's talk CITIZENS UNITED nt

[wryter2000]

151. While I absolutely agree with all of your points...

...I still end up with a positive feeling about his speech, and here's why.

Stewart comes out and tells everyone to be reasonable, then he continues on his show from an obviously progressive point of view. Now, Stewart is the voice of reason and sanity AND he more or less agrees with liberals and ridicules idiotic "conservatives." (I can't really call these people conservatives.) It's extremely irritating he should even suggest people like Keith O. are as bad as Beck, et al., but on the whole, his approach accomplishes a lot.

I'm not saying he planned it that way, but I think that's how it falls out, anyway.

[katandmoon]

155. K&R. EXACTLY.

[2critical]

156. I don't think Stewart and Colbert were talking to us at all

Really. We don't call for mass executions or murder. Quite the opposite. We don't condone or participate in acts of terrorism. So, I really don't think they were talking to us.

[felix_numinous]

157. If there were sane and ethical Republicans

on the other side of the aisle, the equation would be a balanced one. It would be a political equation, but it does not work that way.

Our side of the equation we are playing by the rules, while on the other side they are making up their own rules. There is no game, no equation, no conversation, no bargain, and no way for this equation to ever balance itself using politics.

This equation does not add up if referring to politics, it only works when describing legal issues. The only way to balance this equation is to use legal means to do so. Indict them.

One side are law abiding citizens, the other side are criminals. Period.

[matt819]

165. You are absolutely right

But we have a media in thrall to conservative interests and big business and Democrats too damn spineless to call them out on the false equivalencies.

That's why things are going to get extremely ugly regardless of the outcome.

[cleanhippie]

167. It is unfortunate that so many saw it that way. I did not.

I did not see it as a direct comparison of one side to another, but a montage of examples, some more extreme than others, that are part of the problem.

[defendandprotect]

168. Madfloridian ... good day to say... thanks for your constant fight for justice ...

your concern -- and your wisdom!

:)

Fingers-crossed for us all today!!

[immoderate]

169. K&R

--imm

[BrklynLiberal]

170. I agree with your position 100%. Ask John Kerry about what happens when you ignore the

outrageous bullshit of your repuke opponents.

If they are not answered with equally loud and outrageous voices, they will assume, correctly, victory.

President Obama's attempts at "bipartisanship" not only did not work, they cost us more than we could possibly have gained by trying to work with the other side. Once again, the Democrats were the Charlie Brown to the repukes' Lucy.

Anyone who equates Olbermann, Maddow and Schultz with the RW FAUX Noise machine either never watches the former, or only watches the latter. While one deals with facts, the other deals only in bullshit. One calls for reason and the other calls for insanity.
One gives me hope, and the other scares the crap out of me.

I do not know what I would have done if I had not had the voices of folks like Maddow and Olbermann to speak for me during the past several years. During its heyday, AirAmerica Radio kept me from jumping off a cliff.

[Joe Fields]

I wrote here on this forum, a full six months before he took office...

that if Obama reaches across the aisle in an act of bi-partisanship, he will be pullng back a bloody stump.

[BrklynLiberal]

194. and you were 100% right.....

[LostInAnomie]

171. I have a feeling a lot of people in this thread didn't watch the rally or Jon's speech at all.

They just heard someone utter the blasphemous words "false equivilence" and they wrongly assumed that's what Jon did.

Watch his speech, you'll see that's not what he was doing.

[Born_A_Truman]

175. + 1000

I loved the rally.

[AtomicKitten]

180. ditto

I'm surprised at how quickly this event has been deconstructed to fit the ongoing narrative of some here. It was a terrific albeit oddly nonpartisan event.

[Uncle Joe]

173. Kicked and recommended

Thanks for the thread, madfloridian.

[Individualist]

174. K&R

[Born_A_Truman]

177. Just in case anyone wants to read the speech ...

And now I thought we might have a moment, however brief, for some sincerity. If that's okay - I know that there are boundaries for a comedian / pundit / talker guy, and I'm sure that I'll find out tomorrow how I have violated them.

So, uh, what exactly was this? I can't control what people think this was: I can only tell you my intentions.

This was not a rally to ridicule people of faith, or people of activism, or look down our noses at the heartland, or passionate argument, or to suggest that times are not difficult and that we have nothing to fear--they are, and we do.

But we live now in hard times, not end times. And we can have animus, and not be enemies. But unfortunately, one of our main tools in delineating the two broke.

The country's 24-hour, political pundit perpetual panic conflictinator did not cause our problems, but its existence makes solving them that much harder. The press can hold its magnifying glass up to our problems, bringing them into focus, illuminating issues heretofore unseen. Or they can use that magnifying glass to light ants on fire, and then perhaps host a week of shows on the dangerous, unexpected flaming ants epidemic. If we amplify everything, we hear nothing.

There are terrorists, and racists, and Stalinists, and theocrats, but those are titles that must be earned! You must have the resume! Not being able to distinguish between real racists and Tea Party-ers, or real bigots and Juan Williams or Rick Sanchez is an insult--not only to those people, but to the racists themselves, who have put in the exhausting effort it takes to hate. Just as the inability to distinguish terrorists from Muslims makes us less safe, not more.

The press is our immune system. If it overreacts to everything, we actually get sicker--and, perhaps, eczema. And yet... I feel good. Strangely, calmly, good. Because the image of Americans that is reflected back to us by our political and media process is false. It is us, through a funhouse mirror--and not the good kind that makes you look slim in the waist, and maybe taller, but the kind where you have a giant forehead, and an ass shaped like a month-old pumpkin, and one eyeball.

So why would we work together? Why would you reach across the aisle, to a pumpkin-assed forehead eyeball monster? If the picture of us were true, of course our inability to solve problems would actually be quite sane and reasonable--why would you work with Marxists actively subverting our Constitution, and homophobes who see no one's humanity but their own?

We hear every damned day about how fragile our country is, on the brink of catastrophe, torn by polarizing hate, and how it's a shame that we can't work together to get things done. The truth is, we do! We work together to get things done every damned day! The only place we don't is here (in Washington) or on cable TV!

But Americans don't live here, or on cable TV. Where we live, our values and principles form the foundation that sustains us while we get things done--not the barriers that prevent us from getting things done.

Most Americans don't live their lives solely as Democrats, Republicans, liberals or conservatives. Americans live their lives more as people that are just a little bit late for something they have to do. Often something they do not want to do! But they do it. Impossible things, every day, that are only made possible through the little, reasonable compromises we all make.

(Points to video screen, showing video of cars in traffic.) Look on the screen. This is where we are, this is who we are. These cars. That's a schoolteacher who probably think his taxes are too high, he's going to work. There's another car, a woman with two small kids, can't really think about anything else right now... A lady's in the NRA, loves Oprah. There's another car, an investment banker, gay, also likes Oprah. Another car's a Latino carpenter; another car, a fundamentalist vacuum salesman. Atheist obstetrician. Mormon Jay-Z fan.

But this is us. Every one of the cars that you see is filled with individuals of strong belief, and principles they hold dear--often principles and beliefs in direct opposition to their fellow travelers'. And yet, these millions of cars must somehow find a way to squeeze, one by one, into a mile-long, 30-foot-wide tunnel, carved underneath a mighty river.

And they do it, concession by concession: you go, then I'll go. You go, then I'll go. You go, then I'll go. 'Oh my God--is that an NRA sticker on your car?' 'Is that an Obama sticker on your car?' It's okay--you go, then I go.

And sure, at some point, there will be a selfish jerk who zips up the shoulder, and cuts in at the last minute. But that individual is rare, and he is scorned, and he is not hired as an analyst!

Because we know, instinctively, as a people, that if we are to get through the darkness and back into the light, we have to work together. And the truth is there will always be darkness, and sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel isn't the promised land.

Sometimes, it's just New Jersey.

[Goblinmonger]

179. Why would anyone want to do that?

If they did, they wouldn't be able to claim that he said both Rush and Keith were equally as evil as Hitler. And what fun would that be if people couldn't claim that.

(Waiting for the inevitable claim that it was the 2 seconds in the video montage that claimed all of that.)

[LostInAnomie]

181. +1

I really don't think I've ever seen a longer thread of people bloviating about something they obviously didn't watch or read.

[Dinger]

183. Kick And Rec # 163

:)

[man4allcats]

184. Exactly and Thank You!

It's because many Democrats, particularly the elected ones, refused to act like Democrats that we're in this mess now! Did Republicans obstruct? Of course they did. They saw a weak spot and took advantage of it. I could go on for days with all the things we should have been doing since 2006, but everyone here has heard it all before. The point is, we took a knife to a gunfight with predictable results.

[mzmolly]

186. K and R.

I'm glad I'm not alone in this sentiment.

[Bryn]

188. K&R for truth

[AngryOldDem]

193. So both sides continue to yell at each other.

Let me know when it works out for the good of EITHER side.

It's more of an indictment of what the news industry has become, and how we can't take the time to really listen to anything. So we continue to yell to the point where nobody hears anything.

How many people has Keith Olbermann coverted to his side? How many has Bill O'Reilly? It's just an endless and pointless echo chamber. But continue to scream until you're hoarse. Because that's really worked out so well up to now.

[madfloridian]

196. I do not think Olbermann and O'Reilly should be said in the same breath.

That is just exactly what is wrong with our country now.

You equate telling the truth to O'Reilly's blusters.

[lupinella]

203. Thank you.

Just a quick comment of thanks for this. The false equivalency game is ludicrous.