Words Olbermann, Schultz and their like will never understand

[jpgray]

I said to myself these are not bad men. They are misguided. They have fine reputations in the community. In their dealings with white people they are respectful and gentlemanly. They probably think they are right in their methods of dealing with Negroes. They say the things they say about us and treat us as they do because they have been taught these things. From the cradle to the grave, it is instilled in them that the Negro is inferior. Their parents probably taught them that; the schools they attended taught them that; the books they read, even their churches and ministers, often taught them that; and above all the very concept of segregation teaches them that. The whole cultural traditional under which they have grown—a tradition blighted with more than 250 years of slavery and more than 90 years of segregation—teaches them that Negroes do not deserve certain things. So these men are merely the children of their culture. When they seek to preserve segregation they are seeking to preserve only what their local folkways have taught them was right.

Stewart's lumping in of Olbermann and Schultz with right-wing crazies wasn't to equally condemn the political left and right. It was to condemn certain -voices- on the left and right, who teach their listeners that followers of the opposing view are irrevocably ignorant, evil, contemptible, corrupted, and forever less than human.

Many of those irreclaimable unhuman teabaggers out there voted for the New Deal and the Great Society. The difference now is that they have been taught, very successfully, to hate. The answer to that is not to cultivate our own hatred in an arms race of slurs, but to cultivate the sense of community that has been lost among common people in this country. I want the "gov't hands off my Medicare!" guy to see why he's wrong; I don't want to gloat over his ignorance. I want him to learn that he's been misguided; I don't want to insult him.

That we and "our" pundits so readily sling schoolboy insults at the ignorant, who are already thoroughly abused by their leaders, is shameful. They didn't bomb our houses or attempt to kill our families, and yet sitting on our asses in front of computers, we can't approach the understanding of Dr. King--we reach for a slur and all thinking ceases.

[DefenseLawyer]

1. Blah blah blah

yes if only we were more polite, then they would see the error in their ways and we could all be civil and a splendid time would be guaranteed for all. What a crock. A pox on both their houses does have a certain simplistic appeal, but it's still a crock. Calling a liar a liar is not a slur. Sorry.

[jpgray]

3. There are liars, and then there are those who believe in their lies

"Gov't hands off my Medicare" guy is one of the latter. Take those who voted for Bush in 2004. To do so was an appalling act of ignorance, no question. Should we write them off? That would be just, if they were inexorably ignorant bigots and warmongers without an ounce of humanity. However, many of these voted for Obama in 2008. Rather than simply sling insults, since some can be convinced, why not convince -more-, if not -all- of them, that they are in error?

We want to build a progressive majority, not an exclusive plurality of pugilistic assholes that views all voters outside our group as lost causes. Right?

[DefenseLawyer]

4. Right. The teabaggers are only unreasonable because we aren't nice enough to them

Tell you what, you start your quest to make nice the the Republicans and see how much compromising they are willing to do.

[jpgray]

5. Have you seen "Point of Order?"

It's an edited compilation of the kinescope recordings of the Army-McCarthy hearings, and it goes to show the power of civility over belligerence. The mistake many people make is to equate belligerence with strength, or strong ideals. They don't need to go together, and sometimes providing a contrast to hostility is the best point one can make for a cause.

[kick-ass-bob]

10. Apparently not all of us.

I rec'd as well, fwiw.

[CommonSensePLZ]

33. What about demographics that show that tea partiers are essentially conservatives? And

The tea party's choice of leaders like Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and Karl Rove? And what about the tea party's promises to do the same things Bush was doing and got him a reputation of shame and Republicans voted out of everything? What about tea baggers that bring guns to rallies and town hall meetings when I can't even take a picket sign to a peace demonstration?

Actually Keith Olbermann made exception for some of the tea partiers and said similar things to what you did, about how they're just gullible, however, Keith believes that they're just quick to believe such nonsense, like DEATH PANELS because they just need an excuse to hate the Arab-named, democratic black man in the white house.

[backscatter712]

30. There are two types of right-wingers.

We can nickname them the Stupids and the Evils.

The Stupids tend to be in the rank-and-file. They're the ones who've been exploited - they're too ignorant to see facts. They've had their brains filled with nonsense by fundie churches, right-wing radio jocks and so on. They can be turned to the good side with education, but it's not easy - they're willfully ignorant and highly resistant to reason.

The Evils are just that - EVIL. If the Stupids are the exploited, the Evils are the exploiters - they know exactly what's going on, they know who they're hurting, they just don't care who they hurt. They're not ignorant, they're willing to do absolutely anything for power and money, including killing people, including tearing this country apart. They're the ones who start wars just to trade other people's blood for money. They're the ones who deliberately race-bait just to score political points. And quite frankly, they're the ones I'd love to see shot in the face.

I'll leave it to you to decide which right-wingers are among the Stupids, and which ones are the Evils.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. nuanced thinking is too hard.

:hi:

[jpgray]

6. Unreccing isn't!

I really wish they would display when the count is negative. For clarity's sake. :D

[prolesunited]

7. Stop being so damn reasonable!

:hi: I hit rec FWIW.

[jpgray]

16. What can I say--you're a good influence

:hi:

[Riftaxe]

8. Excellent points

But i fear it will be lost on those who choose to follow politics as a religion.

[Uzybone]

9. KnR

I usually disagree with your posts, but I love this one. Its true.

[jpgray]

20. Hey, one out of, uh, however many ain't bad.

:D Thanks. Even here we find so much to disagree on, but we'll still always be a community--ready to cheer or commiserate tomorrow. Of all the things we want, a GOP victory is not among them.

[seabeyond]

11. yes. nt

[ShamelessHussy]

12. you are behaving contrary to your point by being absolutist about folks on OUR side

you really believe they "will never understand" your point?

I believe they do, but perhaps disagree on the best strategy on how to respond effectively to the constant assault we are under.

i wish we were not always looking for the silver bullet/message to walk in lockstep behind and recognize that there is tremendous strength in our diversity. This is not a simple cliche, it is simply true, in nature, and politics.

We should embrace all the voices speaking up for justice and equality, instead of condemning and attacking them as being idiots for not understanding your truth.

think about it...

[jpgray]

15. Well, I hope I'm wrong about it

By the way, I don't think either man is an idiot, or ill-intentioned.

[ieoeja]

13. K&R

[Matariki]

14. I like your post.

I like posts that abrogate hate. I don't understand why anyone would argue with putting aside hate.

[jpgray]

19. Hate does have somewhat of a political success record

I think that's what attracts people. Unfortunately hate never passed anything like the ideals of DUers. A party with scruples, that seeks to support human rights and dignity, has little chance at winning (and even less reason to enter) a contest of hate.

Would that picture in your signature be less ugly if the guy were holding an "Out of Afghanistan!" sign? Not really, in my view. Happily we don't do things like that, and we should never get to a place where we do.

[TheKentuckian]

17. We've been rolling over and giving without taking for over a generation

because bullies don't respond to your remedy.

Suggesting books doesn't address reality and the non-stop slide that has come with collusion masquerading as compromise and silence playing civility.

Roll with the punches with a stiff upper lip is not a path to victory but a faster slide to defeat.

There is a class war going on and we are getting our fucking guts stomped out with the enthusiastic, willing and relentless support of the footpads you think so highly of.

Fight back or join the predators but don't pretend to side with the people when you preach more silence and surrender in some vain hope that commodity will be rewarded with the dawning of the age of Aquarius.

Same silly fuckers that point to King would be telling him to cease and desist with the rabble rousing decades ago.

[jpgray]

18. I suppose I can't see a contest of head-stomping as useful or desirable

Striking a contrast with head-stompers, however, is often both:

Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so cruel as to do an injury to that lad. It is, I regret to say, equally true that I fear he shall always bear a scar needlessly inflicted by you. If it were in my power to forgive you for your reckless cruelty, I would do so. I like to think I'm a gentle man, but your forgiveness will have to come from someone other than me.

To me, this beats "I'll show -you- reckless cruelty!" any day of the week.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. "Many of those irreclaimable unhuman teabaggers out there voted for the New Deal"

"and the Great Society".

Well no they didn't vote for the New Deal, unless they are in their 90's. Some may have voted for LBJ in '64, but only those aged 77 or older. So we can discard that theory too. It isn't many, it is 'a few'. Very few. On the other hand Nixon Reagan Bush and Bush-fucknutz were probably all on their ballots. These people are, in the vast majority, 50-something rightwing Republicans and for the most part always have been Republicans or 'Reagan Democrats', which is the same thing.

If you wish to generalize about the poltical viewpoint of the older cohort of teabaggers, try 'collecting social security and medicare while opposing it'. Reason with that position? Not possible. It is unreasonable to start with.

[jpgray]

24. I was thinking specifically of my grandparents there

Both of whom were solid New Deal and Great Society Democrats. They are not tea party people by any means these days, but they both voted for Bush. Why? Because they had been taught to hate, and to fear. They felt a part of a community once, but were taught to despise that community.

Your argument is that such a sense of community is irreplaceable, and that these people are forever lost. They resemble well your caricature, or did. I continued talking politics with them, and they both voted for Obama. By your logic, I should not have even tried.

We can't be an exclusive plurality of pugilistic purity snobs. We have to reach out to the abused ignorant that vote for Republicans if we want to have a progressive majority. We won't do that by writing them off as a lost a cause.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. No my argument is that the majority of teabaggercases are 50-70 years old,

and have been rightwingers since 1980. They are in the vast majority BOOMERS not WWII. The ones collecting social security and medicare and apparently opposed to socialism of this sort are beyond reason, either through stunning stupidity or because they are basically irrational people who are masking their real beliefs (hatred of non-whites, gays, 'liberals' etc) with a word salad provided by hate radio. These people went essentially nuts when an african american was elected president and are being used by rather dark forces to advance a rather evil political agenda.

You said yourself that your grandparents are not "tea party people", so why do they even enter into a discussion of the irrational nature of "tea party people"?

This isn't a question of purity or snobs. There is a violent, irrational, and extreme rightwing faction of the Republican Party, "teabaggers", who are very well funded, well organized, have essentially unlimited mass media access, and are in the process of taking over control one of the two major parties in our dysfunctional republic. They are not REASONABLE as they are IRRATIONAL. You cannot reason with irrational people.

[SargeUNN]

22. your title and your post are in conflict

You did just what you were trying to point out that Ed and Keith are doing according to your statement. Therein lies the whole problem, I am betting what Jon meant wasn't what came out and he set it up poorly. Just like you, he could have worded it far better.

[Odin2005]

23. K&R for Sanity!

[Tsiyu]

25. I've slung a lot of insults here, I'll admit

but I do see the big picture.

The teabaggers are truly a tiny portion of the electorate, and framing every issue as if we are dealing solely with teabagger logic is self-destructive.

There are a lot of moderates out there who saw the rally, and who hopefully realize that politics doesn't have to be a war of insults and fear and abuse. Politics can be sane, if we want it to be.


I get really tired of those who ascribe more power to the teabag than it deserves. The moderates needed to see that Dems and liberals are not just the anti-teabags, but that they have compassion, intellect and a sense of humor.

[Skidmore]

26. Political issues aside, on these boards most days it is hard to tell the difference

between the gnashing of the teeth by self-proclaimed defenders of the faith and the most vile hearted teabagger out there.

[Naturyl]

27. K&R

Can't understand why this would be unrecced below zero - but it is.

[McCamy Taylor]

28. Stewart tends to be a bit of an ostrich. If it scares him, he hides his head.

For instance, he does not want to acknowledge how fundamental racism is in the Tea Party movement. Yes, America would be a nicer place if we couild all just get along---but corporate fascist politics, esp. Southern politics is always influenced by some kind of -ism. It is how they divide and conquer the working class.

Stewarts denial of the election problems we face is another failure. Blacks were stripped from the voters rolls in Florida and Ohio in enough numbers to change the results of two presidential elections. And this is somehow nothing to get alarmed about. Maybe if you are someone who never has to worry about being stripped from a voting roll.

I think Stewart probably had a pretty sheltered upbringing and did not see the worst face of corporate fascist America growing up.

[LaPera]

29. Get Real! I'll say it again.....

Stewart makes his living mocking Fox news but trashes Schultz, Olbermann & Maddow by
lumping them all in the same lying greedy propaganda boat as fascist republican Fox 'news'.

Stewart certainly has no loyalty to progressives, liberals or democrats, he loves to be equally trashing....it makes Stewart millions upon millions of dollars -

Stewart doesn't care about informing the people of the overwhelming distinctions of the two ideology's - he prefers to ignore any distinctions altogether.....(It brings in much bigger bucks).

As Stewart will say in his defense and just as the pigman Limbaugh hides behind their statements that....hey, they are just comedians, entertainers if you will.

Stewart pretends that they are all the same, again as he pontificated ("softly") Saturday - and the reason why the excellent Keith Olbermann call Stewart out again on Stewart's usual, - "everyone listen to me now, I'm not being a comedian now bullshit and everyone love me now, I'm not being a comedian now".

The excellent Bill Maher also a comedian makes no such claim and clearly lets everyone know he is a progressive and fights the progressive cause and distinctly makes the difference and sickness hate lying and greed of the republican party....The republican party who certainly are not the friends of the workers, middle-class, small business and especially not the poor whom they despise.

I truly like Jon Stewart and his Daily Show....I recorded his show four times a week (I have the reorder set not to record a repeat) and enjoy watching - Of course Stewart loves to let everyone know that he reads many books, every book - and he probably does because he is a very good interviewer.....

But best I like Stewart's show best when he is using sarcasm, mockery,video footage & clips of the obvious lies and hypocrisy - by politicians, phony moralist & the corporate republican selfish hateful greedy.....that's Stewart and his staff's in my opinion, forte!

But Stewart also knows extremely well that being in the middle mostly indifference will help him in the long run to continue to rake in the dough, screw causes!

[BeFree]

32. Unrec

A recipe to failure.

Sure, if you are MLK with thousands of followers, preach peaches and cream.

But if you are under the gun, being bullied by the mob of ignorants who would just as soon see you dead - stand up for yourself. None of us are suggesting violence, but we are subjected to it at any moment. I guess you never felt it because they are sly, and they have you fooled?

And this little turd you laid:
"Many of those irreclaimable unhuman teabaggers out there voted for the New Deal and the Great Society"
Yeah, sure. But hey, if you really think your folks fit that category, who am I to argue? As for the rest, they are dangerous and they need to be taught a lesson. Imagine if bush had been taught a lesson. The world would be a much better place if he had, eh?

[jgraz]

34. The problem arises when your opponents actually are ignorant, evil, contemptible, corrupted

and when they act less-than-human. Some of these teabaggers have no idea how far outside of acceptable their behavior is. Politeness is inadequate to express the problem.

[bettyellen]

35. "I don't want to gloat over his ignorance. I want him to learn that he's been misguided" THANKS JP!

[donheld]

36. Unrecommend.

It's the likes of you who will never understand.