WHAT did Jon Stewart do to cause this ruckus here today?

[uppityperson]

I know there was the take back sanity gatherings this weekend, but I seem to have missed something since yesterday because a lot of posters are upset.

Thanks.

[leftstreet]

1. Some feel he compared the left to the right

and made a false equivalency

I didn't get the point of the whole thing to begin with, but I read his speech and it was pretty good

[uppityperson]

2. Was this the speech he gave this weekend at the rally?

thanks for filling me in. Am confused.

[leftstreet]

7. There's a link here somewhere to his speech

Sorry, can't find it at the moment

[Ruby the Liberal]

32. No. It was the segment just before the speech when he and Colbert were "battling" for fear vs sanity

They played montage clips of Fox, CNN, MSNBC and others fear mongering over nothing (if you amplify everything, you hear nothing) followed by a montage of the same people calling each other names (Republicans are idiots, The left are the real racists, etc...)

[uppityperson]

37. Thank you. Trying to get the "what when where"'s is difficult. I know the "who"

I may not have been clear enough in my OP but trying to figure out what when where etc, not just "he is bad no he isn't etc".

So, thank you.

[Ruby the Liberal]

50. Turborama (I think) has a link to the youtubes from the show in the vids forum

I watched them again on Sunday. I don't recall if there are 11 or 12, but do recall that the segment in question started mid-way in the third to last. Montages introduced just after the hilarious Colbert Puppet was brought on stage. There were 3 - fear mongering, name calling and hotel TV remotes with bacteria/e-coli.

One thing we all have to admit - agree with them or not - these guys are hilarious. :D

[uppityperson]

51. Thank you, appreciate the INFORMATION rather than ranting.

These guys are hilarious.

[Soral]

3. He told the truth, like he always does... People hate truth.

I don't think the left's number of loudmouths and crazies are equal to the much larger quantity of nutjobs on the right... but they get equal press time.

[Fumesucker]

9. The left has its own vast radio network and it's own cable "nooz" channel?

It's truly amazing the things that you can learn on DU.

Edited for punctuation.

[KansasVoter]

12. If you think the Left is even CLOSE to the right then leave the DU.

[Soral]

18. I said they are NOT equal, they get equal press time (on TV anyway)

I agree its not equal on a radio, but you don't want my opinion/theory on that.

[Warren Stupidity]

112. in which universe?

the national network news shows on broadcast tv have no leftwing presence. On cable news there are two leftwing shows, oblermann and maddow. The sunday talk shows are massively skewed right, both in guests and hosts.

You probably consider center-right shows, hosts, and guests as some how leftwing, when all they are is 'to the left' of an astoundingly consistent rightwing media message system.

[Skittles]

59. I don't think that was his point

I understand (and I'm sure Jon does too) that our left pundits are in reaction to rightwing asshats but in a civil world, we'd have REAL DEBATE, not two sides screaming at each other

[tigereye]

91. exactly - that is what he usually complains about - he hates when things

are so polarized that no one can seem to talk or think straight...

[Skittles]

96. I absolutely hear him

I long for the day we can have real debates about very serious problems, without finger-pointing and soundbites - I am completely sick of it

[seabeyond]

15. it is a matter of interpretation. i enjoyed the rally. stewart is not god. he is not right on ALL

things. sometimes, he gets it a little wrong. but the intent and message was good....

[tavalon]

64. Actually, they dont. At all. MSNBC is trying to even it up. I'm not sure that's a good thing

But, what I think he was saying is that the 24/7 crap isn't helping us curb our fear, it's amplifying it.

[Doctor_J]

77. Pass the crack pipe, please

I would like to share your reality escape hatch.

[October]

88. That is a ridiculous assertion.

Equal press time? In what universe do you live?

[Balbus]

127. An accurate observation - I applaud you for it.

And as your post proves, the truth is not always welcomed.

[Ian David]

4. You've never had a daughter make you watch Doogal, over and over, have you?

[uppityperson]

6. I had asparagus for dinner last night and felt really guilty because it was shipped

from the southern hemisphere. But it looked so good I bought it.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

5. He's the latest victim of the purity brigade.

The same people who put him on a pedestal for being tough with Obama now realize he's not Jesus.

[great white snark]

8. .

:thumbsup:

[sally cat]

17. After the Meek debacle it was obvious there is no purity here. Another day, another belief system.

[AmericaIsGreat]

10. He compared people like Olberman and schultz

to people like Beck and Limbaugh.

I was gutted.

I don't know when he started believing that the right has a large group of intellectual, reasonable people with whom we could just have a chat with and make everything better, or when he started believing that just because Ed Schultz yells as much as Limbaugh that that somehow makes them equal, but perhaps Stewart really is clueless and not as bright as I thought.

Always loved the guy but that speech was insanely wrong. Not only that, it really made the liberal movement at this rally look soft and unsure of itself. What a f'ing shame.

[sally cat]

14. "Stewart really is clueless and not as bright as I thought." That, plus he's betting on the repukes

and covering his sorry ass.

[uppityperson]

27. What do you mean "he's betting on the repukes"? I'm still confused. nt

[tigereye]

95. huh? The guy's a comedian - since Obama was elected he pokes fun at the

left as well as the right. :shrug:


How is he betting on the repukes? Where does that idea come from?

[tavalon]

56. He didn't do that

He knew if he didn't put in a few left mentioned he would be painted as a left activist. His cred has been solid with me for years and an occasional misstep or even incorrect statement isn't enough to destroy that. And his speech was, in my opinion, great, not perfect but what is?

[Goblinmonger]

85. You don't think there is equal name-calling

and yelling and general over-the-topness on both the left and the right? Really? You know that's not true. You know there are left pundits that espouse fear to get people to go against the right. Olberman has told me several times that a policy of Bush's, which is still in effect btw, was going to be the end of the country. Was it a shitty policy? Yep. Did it cause the apocalypse? No.

Are the left pundits as bad as the right? Not even close. (bet I get misquoted on that) But to just act like it is only the right that is incorrect is part of the problem.

[kelly1mm]

115. I think he was trying to point out that the form (yelling) of the left and

right is unproductive. I do not think he was saying the substance of what comes from the right is equivalent to that from the left. Maybe a bit to nuanced for some, but I think he had a point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. He dared call the ESTABLISHMENT on their bs

Apparently that's not too popular fer some.

[Jennicut]

21. And pointed out that a certain few have huge egos.

I don't and never will get the worship of certain media figures, including Stewart himself. No one is perfect and no one is God. He skewered the entire pundit class. He did it to Rick Sanchez (not really a big time conservative, he leaned to the left on a lot of issues) and the guy flipped out. Everyone here has to know that KO has a huge ego and is a bit thin skinned at times. Is Stewart in the dog house now? Should I care? Do I really care that multimillionaires are fighting?

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. It was a thing to behold though

And I care little whondoes the deconstruction.

[sally cat]

29. But not Jon. He got ahead of the curve and became the arbiter of what's appropriate. Whew, thanks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. You have a problem with all this

Find the cross fire segment then re-read the speech. You really are missing it... And I think on purpose...

[sally cat]

42. And you don't. We're even.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. I get it... I don't think you do

[KansasVoter]

13. He slammed two GREAT dems in Keith and Ed. He was an ass.

[digitaln3rd]

28. THey deserved to be called out.

Seriously "Psycho Talk" and "Worst Person in the World"?

That's not news, that's stupid pundit gimmicks. I used to like Olbermann but he has kind of jumped the shark a bit over to the loud, shrill, and obnoxious territory of Beck, Hannity, and the like.

[KansasVoter]

122. Wow, name one worst person who did not deserve it!

[Topper_Halo]

47. Has KO come out as a dem?

?

[Jennicut]

55. KO doesn't even vote!

[onehandle]

16. It's a symptom of things to come. Sanity and Liberalism is coming to blows.

Let's hope that we can get our shit back together for 2012.

[still_one]

19. Some here missed his entire message. It was two-fold. Disagree without demonizing, and the main

point is that the current state of the media in this country is to exploit those differences in a way that divides people and distract them from the real issues

There is NO way he setup an equivalency test as some would like to believe

[sally cat]

33. Missed it? How about reject it. Is that OK with you and Jon? Why have you and Jon kept this quiet

until three days before the election? Capitulate much?

[tavalon]

58. Guess what?

You're allowed to disagree and so am I. Jon, btw, hasn't kept his disdain for the 24/7 freakfest in the media a secret, ever.

[uppityperson]

66. Jon kept his thoughts about media coverage "quiet until 3 days before the election"?

still_one did also? HAHAHAHAHahahahahahahaha

[Goblinmonger]

87. Did you watch the Crossfire interview?

Did you think that was only about conservatives?

You're not much of an "it" getter are you?

[still_one]

92. gee sally cat with your who 103 posts, and you accuse me of keeping quiet. You don't like people

who don't fit it your mold that is your right, but I am not capitulating anything

In fact, what the heck are you talking about

[uppityperson]

120. Must've not posted anything for the last 4 days?

Since it is against the rules to point out how long someone has been a member, I won't do that.

I think they are going to be visiting here for the next few days, don't you?

[still_one]

123. You are technically correct, however, I was defending myself for being accused of somehow not

speaking up until this rally

I don't think I actually understood that post that I responded to, I guess I am a little dense. I also have no problem if you think the violations of the rules, which you are right about, should be alerted to the Mods, I am OK with that, and actually agree with you, I should not have referred to number of posts when responding

Thanks for the heads up

[uppityperson]

126. You aren't the one who is dense here. I was amused by that accusation of not speaking up.

I was meaning me not referring the number of posts. Searching what posts posters have made can be educational also.

I think there are posters coming to Du that fit in well, and a certain amount of disrupters (not meaning you in that second category).

Edited to add I just sent you a pm to clarify

[still_one]

130. It is sometimes a learning experience, at least for me, thanks /nt

[underpants]

20. Nothing

they are nit picking

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

22. All he really did was to get 215,000 people together on the mall

for a tame version of a modern "love-in". The question is, why did all those people show up? What did they think was going to happen? And what did really happen Mr. Jones?

[tavalon]

60. They listened, they laughed, they played along with mythbusters cute games

and they cared enough to say enough to the crazy.

[SoCalDem]

23. Many people do not understand how satire works

Jon is a satirist, and for it to "work" he knows he has to look for any and all threads in the garment...not just the red threads.

If he only "tweaked" one side, he would be a partisan comic...not a political satirist.

When OUR side stops doing & saying stupid shit, he will not be able to pick their bones too..

I know he's a liberal, and would love for our side to be pure & honest, but he has to work with what he has.

[sally cat]

35. And many do and can see when it works and also when it fails.

[madrchsod]

24. my wife and i were there and we paid no attention to the stage

to much happening in the crowd to listen to the stage...

being from the home town of ronald reagan a 24 hour round trip on a bus was worth every second. my wife had a great time waving the prop 19 signs!

[Ruby the Liberal]

26. False Equivalency

Comparing the over-the-top name calling and factless 'reporting' of Fox Snooze with the over-the-top name calling and factual rebuttals of MSNBC to said Fox 'reporting'.

Rather than focus on facts and factual basis, he focused on the clipped rhetoric - like Ed yelling "Republicans are liars" without context as to what set Big Eddie/Alan Grayson/Keith off in the first place.

I get the point, but it was a little offputting to people like me who see the frustration of Fox &Co not being called out on their bullshit.

[tigereye]

99. I do think Olbermann is a much more coherent thinker than most of the Fox

crowd... and funnier!

[Ruby the Liberal]

108. No question

but the message was to tone it down. No need for snorting and yelling.

That said, if you don't snort and yell in indignation about lies, then no one listens.

We live in a Paris Hilton/American Idol nation of idiots.

[JI7]

30. he grouped Olbermann, Schultz , and Grayson in with the wingnuts

can't we all agree that even if we might not like or agree with those 3 that they do not belong in the group of becks, rush, head stomping thugs etc.

[Ruby the Liberal]

36. Yes, yes we can.

While I have yet to disagree with Big Ed on any issue I have heard him speak on, I am just not as comfortable with his style as I am Rachel. He feels like professional wrestling to her Olympics. No slam intended, it is just a personal preference on getting basically the same message out.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sally cat]

39. Correct, and makes it obvious that it is about HIM in his eyes.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tigereye]

101. actually I think he really got the attention of a lot of folks who are tired of

the extreme right/media talking for them and also the general lack of dialogue between opposing factions. A lot of "moderate" folks- for lack of a better term.

[MrScorpio]

128. How your cave set for furniture?

Rock chairs, right?

[jberryhill]

129. It seems he has become a granite eater /nt

[MrScorpio]

131. I hate when that happens

Too late to the party!

[jberryhill]

132. I'll send you an early lead on a more subtle one... /nt

[sally cat]

34. Blaming the media? How weak is that? He IS the media. We have political enemies, blame them!

[uppityperson]

40. Is this random word salad or does it have anything to do with what I asked in OP?

[Ruby the Liberal]

44. No, he isn't "the media". He is Comedy Central

and his takedown of the media was in much the same manner that in 2004 lead to the cancellation of CNN's Crossfire - announced less then 3 months after he took them on and called them out on live TV.

Don't believe me? Check Wikipedia for "Crossfire" and the google the youtube for "Jon Stewart Crossfire" to see the episode.

Classic line (paraphrased) - "You are CNN! You are looking to Comedy Central for journalistic guidance? The leadin to my show is puppets making crank calls."

This isn't a new thing to him. He has been beating this drum for years now.

[sally cat]

53. Fine, point taken. I find it disingenuous. And convenient, coming three days before the election. He

punked everyone, as you are pointing out he has been doing for years, for his own good. It had nothing to do with restoring sanity (why is that needed after two years of the Obama Admin and Dem control of Congress, btw?). Someone told me he meant restore sanity to the populace and the media. Say what? Calling the populace insane three days prior to an election, in these troubled times? Oh yeah, that's brilliant, really resonates. It's stupid and it's tone deaf, but I don't believe that was really his target for the "restore sanity" bs at all.

Bottom line, I was and am upset at his "dude" interview of the President and his becoming a God to so many with this rally irks me even further. Now I'll back off.

[uppityperson]

63. Do you seriously believe that simply having Obama as pres makes the teabaggers sane?

How about Rush and the brazillions that listen to him and quote him with raptness?

I think you are joshing us. I think you don't really believe that that teabagger get together last month showed saneness. I think you don't really believe that everyone, everything, every news media is now sane because of "two years of the Obama Admin and Dem control of Congress".

Maybe "the Obama Admin and Dem control of Congress" passed laws saying media coverage must be sane, and I missed it?

I don't think so.

[tigereye]

107. thank you! Just what I was thinking.

[Ruby the Liberal]

67. No need to "back off" - this is a discussion board!

Have your say, friend. :toast:

Just because I wanted to watch the Tucker Carlson smackdown again, I looked up the youtube for you. This may help clarify where Jon is coming from. (Favorite part was when he asked Tucker how old he was (35, at the time) and then noted, "and you wear a bowtie?". Followed up with the fact that Jon isn't questioning his intelligence as those things are impossible to tie. ROFL!)

Jon Stewart on Crossfire, October 2004: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE (< 15 minutes)

This is worth a watch. Seriously.

It may be my personality, and as I have stated, I like Big Ed and Keith. ALOT. But my temperament gravitates to people like Jon and Rachel that can dismantle an 'opponent' with wit and wisdom without resorting to yelling and outrage.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. The media

And you need to catch up on the history of this...

[Goblinmonger]

89. You are that pissed about "dude"?

It was a joke. He's a comedian, you know (hint is that he is on Comedy Central). Or are you upset that he didn't get on his knees and kiss Obama's ass? Do you agree with everything Obama has done?

[sally cat]

100. Sorry, but I thought it was demeaning to the office as well as President Obama. Stewart is too full

of himself.

[Goblinmonger]

105. "demeaning"? I thought Stewart was very reserved.

He let him talk and didn't do any of his usual schtick. Obama tossed him a softball on that one.

[kath]

76. Yesterday, I watched the video of Jon on Crossfire -

Very powerful. Not sure I'd ever watched the whole thing before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE

[Ruby the Liberal]

81. That was filmed live Oct 04. CNN cancelled the show Jan 05 after being on the air since 1982

That speaks volumes.

[kath]

111. whoa- didn't realize it had been on that long.

Don't have cable, so don't watch any of that shit.

[Ruby the Liberal]

113. I am not a historian - I got that from Wiki

Checked it the other day per claims on Kos. If accurate (and it is sourced) that is an incredible get for Jon.

[bettyellen]

48. ha ha, you wanted him to have quite a different - and partisan -rally for unity?

how would that work?

[stray cat]

65. We have enemies - could be a statement from tea baggers - we do have shared values I guess

Hatred!

[sally cat]

104. The President referred to them as enemies the other day and I agree. Capitulate much?

[tigereye]

103. he's not the "news" medai- he's spoofing it.

Although he does do some great, thoughtful interviews and genuinely seems to want to know what the interviewees are talking about.

:shrug:

[rpannier]

41. The only thing I read from his speech that irritated me

was his comment to the effect that the tea baggers had legitimate complaints and they weren't racists

[Ruby the Liberal]

57. No, no, no - he didn't say any such thing.

What he said was, in effect, to call tea partiers (blanketly) racist is to offend true racists who have invested the time to hate enough to earn the mention on their resume.

In other words, not all tea partiers are racists and that rhetoric needs to end.

IMO, there is a HUGE element of racism in the 'tea party', but more than that is the preponderance of the low-information-voting population of willful-ignoramousville. You know, those people who demand that the government keep its hands off of their medicare and believe Obama raised everyone's taxes in 2009. Racism is just the chopped nuts on the insane-a-sundae. Some people are allergic and leave that topping off the menu.

[uppityperson]

69. To call tea partiers...racist is to offend true racists who have invested the time to hate enough to

"To call tea partiers (blanketly) racist is to offend true racists who have invested the time to hate enough to earn the mention on their resume. "

I like that. That is very good. I agree with what your summation is, thank you again Ruby

[tigereye]

109. I think the tea party (and the Beck crowd) tend to miss the old days when

they didn't have to cope with anything or anyone who didn't look like them. They want to go back to some fantasy world of the 50s and 60s.
That's how the rhetoric comes across to me. It really doesn't seem to have that much to do with alleged "fiscal responsibility."


Shudder.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. He did not, re-read the speech

[McCamy Taylor]

43. He said Tea Baggers are not racist.

Maybe if he had been there when they called Rep. John Lewis a "nigger"---to his face--- he would understand.

Racism is the number one tool of corporate CEOs to get the working class to vote against its own best interest. If it had been Hillary, they would have pulled out sexism, instead. They are so predictable.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

54. Do you think calling Rep. John Lewis a "nigger" is racist? nt

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

73. In my case I am calling 1 man a racist. In yours you broadbrush a whole group

And no. While the 9/11 bombers were Muslim and mostly from Saudi Arabia, I do not think Islam=terrorism. That group of 19 were terrorists, yes.

[uppityperson]

75. Do you think calling Rep. John Lewis a "nigger" is racist? You didnt answer

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

119. You call me a hypocrite for questioning you?

[Ruby the Liberal]

86. Do you understand the difference between calling a black man a "n" and ALL muslims "terrorists"

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ruby the Liberal]

97. Who exactly are you arguing with then?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9436945&mesg_id=9437370

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

121. Who is calling "everyone a racist"? Do you mean DUers?

Where does that happen? If it does, then why are you here?

[tavalon]

70. I agree with you until your last point

Since Citizen's United, the game is now officially out of our hands. It isn't about ideas, it's about money. Until we get rid of that ruling and get very enforced, tight, election money, no POV will be heard unless it comes with at least a million dollars. We're seeing that ramp up with this election and by 2012, without changes, ideas will be thoroughly ignored in favor of corporate cronyism.

The best Democracy money can buy. And we all lose, those on the left, on the right and almost all points in between (Goldman Sachs will be just fine).

[datasuspect]

90. yes, the idea that they are racist john bircher batshit klansman racists

duh.

[tavalon]

61. Some aren't, many are

And he's right when he says the only way we will take back Washington from the corporations is if we work together. It wasn't an unreasonable position.

[LanternWaste]

52. I think it's because a comedian made a joke...

I think it's because a comedian made a joke...

[stray cat]

62. He encouraged sane rationale people to work together just like we do every day in merging traffic

No death threats to republicans upsetting some progressives

[LostInAnomie]

72. Gave a message that couldn't be summed up in a soundbite.

Thereby, confusing many DUers and making them angry.

[islandmkl]

78. he apparently made the mistake of being able to be taken as equating the fox-right with...

ANY and ALL of the left...

and you wonder why the middle gets disenchanted, let alone misled...

you don't have to moderate your goals, but just keep pissing on an equal number of people who oppose your views, and you are subject to the 'true moderates' choosing sides...

at which time your 'reasonable and intellectual and articulate' message may get lost, albeit to hyperbole...

so, you want to scream 'the truth' when, in reality, that is all the right is doing, too...

elections are never about right versus wrong...just about winners versus losers...

Jon merely pointed out that both sides are alienating 'reason'...and, of course, both sides are goddam sure they are right...

[Doctor_J]

79. He trotted out the "we're as bad as they are" canard

And the right wing proved him right by rolling out this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4595963&mesg_id=4595963

[Goblinmonger]

93. That's not what he said.

He said the media is interested in keeping the left vs right fight going so that they can make money so they yell louder and louder. That's not the same as saying Franken is as bad as Limbaugh or whatever comparison you want to falsely say he made. He's had a pretty consistent bent against the media of both stripes as not helping solve the problem. That's what he said at the rally, too.

[Doctor_J]

114. Pardon me, but he pretty much compared Keith to Beck

I like Jon, and his show is a much-needed antidote to ConNN and Fox "News". But Fox is not going to quiet down, and thus he should not be asking Ed and Keith to

[Goblinmonger]

116. Here's the link to the full text of the speech.

http://www.examiner.com/celebrity-in-national/rally-to-restore-sanity-jon-stewart-s-closing-speech-full-text

Third time I've read it. Please point out where he compared Keith to Beck.

And he's asking them both to quiet down. Both of them to act like both sides can actually get along. And points out that they are making this conflict bigger than it is because it makes them money.

[Doctor_J]

118. Beck will not quiet down. If you think that Keith quieting down

will cause Beck to, you need to wake the fuck up

[Goblinmonger]

124. I'll take that as a "He didn't make that comparison." n/t

[Ruby the Liberal]

98. How on God's green and blue planet is this even remotely related?

[Ruby the Liberal]

80. Uppityperson - in case you haven't seen this:

Here is a link to Jon's full final speech (not the montages we are talking about on the thread - those came before).

I like this link the best as the original DVR uploads all focused on crowd shots, and at times were hard to hear what he was saying. This is a C-Span clip that focused the whole time on him.

I think he made his point brilliantly.

Enjoy! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=520895

[uppityperson]

82. Thanks Ruby. Seem to have laid out some flypaper with this question.

Not meaning you but elsewhere. Thanks.

[Ruby the Liberal]

84. Heh. Haven't read through the whole thread, but I can imagine.

Enjoy the clip. It is positively on point.

As I keep posting, it is professional wrestling vs the Olympics.

It isn't what you are saying, it is HOW you are saying it. Thats all he was trying to get across (and has for years).

I am glad the right doesn't have a Rachel Maddow or Jon Stewart. I LOVE Big Eddie and KO, but they preach to the choir. Rachel and Jon have that certain gene se qua that makes people open up to them ans talk from the heart.

[ProudDad]

102. He should probably study up a little more...

I've never known a "marxist" who wanted to "overthrow the Constitution"...

Just capitalism...

Capitalism and the Constitution are NOT equivalent...

We don't need capitalism to enjoy the Bill of Rights!

Other than that, he was pretty interesting...

[Bluenorthwest]

106. A film montage confused people.

Most of them seemed to understand that Colbert and Ozzy did not really, really object to Yusuf singing Peace Train, but they were unable to grasp the juxtaposition of both points of view when directed at the cable media. It utterly amazes me that in a show that was all about two sides-Stephen and Jon-that a video making the same point again would not only confuse people, but lead them to ascribe it directly to Stewart, with no mention of Colbert whose 'point of view' was being expressed alternately through out and including the montage o' confusion.

[quaker bill]

117. He suggested that some left commentators

bloviate a bit on occasion....

I think we do, and I do not mind at all. Nor do I mind that we have gotten called out on it. For once, we are finally large enough and assertive enough to actually be considered a real counter point in the shouting match

Would it be better if both sides stuck to rational facts and legitimate argument? Absolutely. However I would not suggest that the left disarm unilaterally. We took nearly constant abuse from the right for nearly 20 years before we found our voices.

For a long time "sanity" was seemingly defined by them dishing it out and us taking it in relative silence. Thus something that seemed like peace was maintained. Now we are heard objecting and occasionally firing back and the "conflict" that was always there, but is now more apparent is seen as irrational.

The problem is that it always was irrational (the Willie Horton ads were not rational), and, John, I am sorry but it is not more irrational because we are responding to it, it is just harder to ignore.

You are correct that the path forward lies in both sides dropping the cudgels and beginning rational dialogue. This I am afraid will only happen when the voting public stops rewarding this behavior at the polls, something that does not seem in the offing for 2010.

[Balbus]

125. self delete

[AtomicKitten]

133. Jon/Stephen did America a solid by rallying for cooler heads to prevail. nt