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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 11:12 PM
Original message
The gulf between the left and right wings exists. But there is another one.
Edited on Mon Nov-01-10 11:20 PM by madfloridian
And that gulf is just as wide and dangerous for our party.

It is the way the the party has been divided into two main segments in the minds of the party leaders and the media. I don't know whether to call that divide a left and right problem or something else.

First let me say that hubby and I voted last week. We voted as best we could to keep teabaggers from running this state. I think we did a good job. We have no contact with the party locally. They don't send emails to any Democrats who are not in attendance at meetings, and if you miss 3 meetings you are out. Well, my hubby's illness and our granddaughter's sudden death easily took care of those meetings and more.

When we used to be considered members locally, we got the emails and tips on amendments, etc. Now we don't. But we were smart enough to figure them out, and our unions mailed out ideas as well.

The division is one in which those whom the party leaders consider to be left of their centrist stances are considered to be threatening to the party. They feel we need to be warned to be compliant and not to speak too loudly or brashly.
It happens locally and nationally, and it should not be that way.

We on "the left" have been right on nearly every major issue. We have been ignored.

Here are some examples of things we got very right and the leaders in DC got terribly wrong.

1.We on "the left" did not vote for or support this Iraq invasion that has bankrupted our country in the name of oil-grabbing and "spreading Democracy" at the point of a gun. It falls to our new president to figure out how to handle this invasion that was approved of by our former Democratic president.

2. "The left as a whole did not support the deregulation that began in the 90s. That is another reason we are in such trouble financially today as a country. It was not our idea to take the eye off corporations and let them have their merry way with our country as they took our jobs overseas.


12 years ago Molly Ivins spoke out on this deregulation of the banking industry.

“AUSTIN - Watch the House pass a bad bill. Watch the Senate make it worse. Watch the banking industry dig its own grave. Watch supposedly smart people set up a financial disaster. Can we see President Clinton veto this mess? Veto, Clinton, veto.

.."In May, the House passed (by one vote) a bill to eliminate barriers between banks, brokerage firms and insurance companies. This sets up financial holding companies that can offer all three types of services simultaneously. The most obvious risk is that a blunder in the insurance or brokerage end of the business could bring down a bank, putting insured deposits at risk. The taxpayers, of course, then wind up with the tab, as we did with the savings-and-loan mess.


And 3rd and 4th things we were correct about:

3. Those of us on "the left" did not cause the bankruptcies and foreclosures that are looming. The ones who chose to vote for the bankruptcy bill are the problem. Our Democrats who are denying help to homeowners are the problem.

..."Pelosi told fellow Democrats during a closed-door meeting that the idea of letting judges rewrite mortgages to help bankrupt homeowners avoid foreclosure won't be a part of the emergency legislation. That provision, pushed by several Democrats, would be a deal-breaker for Republicans whose votes are needed to pass the measure, she said, according to lawmakers at the meeting.


I consider #4 the Fisa Bill:

Coalition of 27 groups opposed the FISA bill

What the bill will do.

The bill would authorize massive warrantless surveillance.

The bill would require no individualized warrant even when an American’s communications clearly are of interest to the government.

The bill would curtail effective judicial review of surveillance.

The bill would grant retroactive immunity for wrongdoing.

The bill would not provide a reasonable sunset.


The leader of the DLC in 1992, Al From, actually admitted they were attempting to make the party neutral on important matters that count. His goal was to win, and he wanted to stand for nothing that would keep Democrats from winning.

Al From admits DLC decided in effect to make the Democratic party neutral.

One of the important things we had to do in 1992 was remove the obstacles that kept people from voting Democratic in the first place," he said.

That included addressing issues of welfare, fiscal discipline and crime. "As long as people thought we were going to take money form (from) people who worked and give it to people who didn't work, they didn't want to listen to anything else," he added. "The Republicans have to make people understand that they're not just a right-wing, southern party."


A fellow DLC founder Simon Rosenberg verified what Al From said.

Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

..."..."Privately funded and operating as an extraparty organization without official Democratic sanction, and calling themselves "New Democrats," the DLC sought nothing less than the miraculous: the transubstantiation of America's oldest political party. Though the DLC painted itself using the palette of the liberal left--as "an effort to revive the Democratic Party's progressive tradition," with New Democrats being the "trustees of the real tradition of the Democratic Party"--its mission was far more confrontational. With few resources, and taking heavy flak from the big guns of the Democratic left, the DLC proclaimed its intention, Mighty Mouse–style, to rescue the Democratic Party from the influence of 1960s-era activists and the AFL-CIO, to ease its identification with hot-button social issues, and, perhaps most centrally, to reinvent the party as one pledged to fiscal restraint, less government, and a probusiness, pro–free market outlook.


Right after the election in 2008, the lectures began to the left. They have continued on since then. From Steve Hildebrand at Huff Post:

I could go on and on. The point I'm making here is that our new president, the Congress and all Americans must come together to solve these problems. This is not a time for the left wing of our Party to draw conclusions about the Cabinet and White House appointments that President-Elect Obama is making. Some believe the appointments generally aren't progressive enough. Having worked with former Senator Obama for the last two years, I can tell you, that isn't the way he thinks and it's not likely the way he will lead. The problems I mentioned above and the many I didn't, suggest that our president surround himself with the most qualified people to address these challenges. After all, he was elected to be the president of all the people - not just those on the left.


Also Will Marshall of the DLC/PPI had some words for us.

Since the 2004 election, wealthy liberals, lefty bloggers, and interest groups have been demanding that Democrats reciprocate their opponents' belligerent partisanship. Only by standing up for core liberal convictions, they argue, can Democrats galvanize a new progressive majority and "take America back." It sounds stirring, but there are three problems with that theory.

First, most 2006 voters expressed a strong preference for cooperation over partisan confrontation between Bush and the Democratic Congress. Second, in moderate America, there simply aren't enough liberals to get Democrats anywhere near a majority. Third, liberal and centrist Democrats sometimes interpret their party's core principles differently, especially on such important issues as the use of force, the benefits of trade, the role of government, and questions about religion and morality."


That is the same argument going on today at this forum. It is a misrepresentation of what many of us are saying and feeling.

I have not called for "belligerent" partisanship ever. Others here have not either.

We have asked that our party stand up for women's rights, the rights of gays to marry and serve their country. We have asked our party to stand up for keeping Social Security as the wonderful program it is, giving seniors who paid into it all these years a little bit of security in this crazy financial environment.

Our party needs to seriously examine its attitude toward those in the party they consider to be "liberals" "the left", or whatever the term may be.

Stop using right wing terminology to refer to us, and allow us to feel a part of things.




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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. You are so correct! I was gonna say Right but... correct is better.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. I know what you mean. I made myself use the word "correct"
Hard to remember.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. So sorry for your loss.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. self-delete.
Edited on Mon Nov-01-10 11:30 PM by Ken Burch
didn't realize what poster was referring to.

My sympathies also to madfloridian.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I would assume that poster hadn't heard about madfloridian's husband and grandchild before.
and was expressing normal human empathy.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I hadn't read the OP clearly enough the first time.
n/t.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. our leadership has become cowards in the face of the truth
the founders of our nation must be ashamed of what we have become.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. As long as there is only one political party in the country it won't change
Humans in America actually concerned with governing the country become Democrats. That's liberal, moderate, conservative etc. Thus the party will always be a mixture of political philosophies. Conservatives seem to have more organizational structure power, but in general that is because they created that organizational structure inside the party. Before that the Democratic party was more amorphous and at times too weak to win national offices. The real solution is for conservatives to get out the Democratic party and fix the "real" conservative party in the US. Or alternatively for conservative voters to stop electing fake politicians and just vote democrat until no Republicans exist in elected office. I see what is happening in the Democratic party the same as what happened to the labor party in England where it became to only viable party. It got more conservative simply because conservatives stopped running in the other nutty parties. Unfortunately their conservative parties eventually got back in power without cleaning house and that looks like that will happen here too. Basically our political system doesn't work when you have one group of people acting like a political party but not governing once elected. I see no way for Dems to "fix" their party until the other party gets fixed and history right now seems to indicate it won't be fixed soon.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. That's what the calls for post-partisanship meant after the election.
It actually means one party. That term was used by so many in power it was scary. You need two parties for a healthy country.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-10 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think it's a class divide.
That and the party knows it needs the left for votes, but historically the left and mainstream liberals have been two separate entities in this country. In England the LibDems are a moderate party and the Socialist and Labor parties contain the actual left. We don't have that system here, so lefties get corralled into the Dem party. I don't think it's ever been a comfortable relationship for either side. I've been reading some history on that lately.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Easily could be that.
They keep reminding us there is nowhere else to go.

You could be right.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Yup.
As supporters of labor we have no horse in the race so to speak. When the party we are "corralled" into stands for busting unions (as they are currently doing to teachers) what else can you say.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. This is kind of creepy.
From the English LibDem website:



Hope and Change!©

I wonder if they have the same marketing firm, too.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. that's it right there
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
41. Certainly sounds about right imo. n/t
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
11. kick and recommend!!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. K&R.
:)
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. If the centrist, neo-lib, 3rd way, policies are so "practical" why are the Democrats losing?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Interesting. DLC and Third Way coming forth again.
Only DLC says Third Way is nothing but political memos. But they both agree that any left turn is disastrous.

They are not even waiting until after the election this time around.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=09E0E255-EAEC-00E0-93D22A45D112AE19

Third Way’s leaders argue that the president and congressional leaders recognize moderates matter more than ever.

“The party is about to come to a major fork in the road,” said Jonathan Cowan, Third Way’s president. “A left turn at this juncture is a turn toward permanent minority status.”

“I believe Barack Obama is a believer in the art of the possible,” said Bennett, who served as the Clinton administration’s principal liaison to governors. “That is how he has lived his life. He believes not in compromising principle but in finding solutions even when the politics of a situation are changed.”

To be sure, there are other groups advocating center-left views. The Progressive Policy Institute, which spun off from the DLC, remains in the research and education field under Will Marshall. Simon Rosenberg, a former DLC field director, runs the NDN, previously known as the New Democrat Network. While it’s not what it once was, the DLC hasn’t disappeared. They won’t disclose their budget, except to say they employ 15 people (including part-time fellows). Bruce Reed, who succeeded From as leader of the DLC before taking a leave of absence to become executive director of the president’s fiscal commission, will return in December.

“They have talented people, there’s no doubt about that, but I don’t think there’s a replacement really for original policy work,” DLC President Ed Gresser said of Third Way. “I think they do some, but what I see of their work is sort of political memos, ‘Here’s how you should talk about such and such an issue.’ Those are valuable, but they’re not setting an agenda.”

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. Sounds like they will do heavier battle with us this time around.
:shrug:
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. K&R You've cut right to the heart of the matter with this post! nt
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. Very observant and accurate.
Molly Ivins hit the nail directly on the head in her prediction.

I also voted a couple of weeks ago. And I did a small amount of work (very small) on a statehouse campaign.

It seems that the DLC-New Dems are more about marketing than principals. Back when the Senate passed that horrible bankruptcy bill, 27 members of the New Democrat Network signed a letter to Dennis Hastert asking him to hurry up and bring it to the floor for a vote, so they could vote for it. One of whom was Jim Davis (D) Florida. I guess he needed the banking industry money for his run for Governor. He also supported the Iraq invasion and the Patriot Act. And he was proud of those votes. I have a personal dislike for him that was ALMOST enough to make me vote for Crist for Governor. However, I was a Party DEC member at the time, and I took my loyalty oath seriously.

A lot of good it did me. A year later I resigned from the DEC when the Dems in Congress voted to keep funding the war. Later, when they renewed FISA, I quit altogether.

Some say that we're all in this together, and that we all want the same things. I say that they're wrong. What they're really saying is "We all want the same things, as long as you want what we want, and are willing to settle for anything".

Some of us want more. We remember what the Party used to stand for, years ago, when we first joined it. My first vote, at 20 years old was for George McGovern.

And I'm very sorry to hear about your granddaughter MF. It's the first I've heard about it. And wishing your husband well.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Thanks. And I forgot something. Education.
We are continuing Bush's education policies, and it infuriates me.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. You know something? Today is a day to be united instead of pushing the differences. nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. That would be ideal.
So tell that to the Third Way who did not even wait for election day.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. These are wonderful reminders of what critically thinking Dems were right about.
But more important is you and your families great loss. So sad to hear about the loss of your grandaughter. You seem to give so much even in times of great loss-thank you for not giving up... Your input is very appriciated..... Take care.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. We really were activists over those issues. It made no difference at all.
It is as though the agenda was pre-set, just like it is in education reform now. Nothing will change it.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. So basically, you're in the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.
Whatever happened to us? :shrug:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. We were told not to be too noisy and outspoken.
So we weren't.
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felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. We are the mainstream
and are witnessing the radicalization of government. It is good to see so many people organizing and waking up to this fact.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Very true.
We are called radical and fringe to keep us from making a difference.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R With the current system, we are marginalized.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. K&R, sad times will hopefully lead to fighting back harder...public funded elections
one day in my life time, I hope.



Wishing all the best to you and yours madfloridian.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. That would be a good outcome.
:hi:
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. If you want the Public to matter a lot more, and
Edited on Wed Nov-03-10 01:59 AM by truedelphi
Big Corporate Money to matter a lot less, check out recent "Democracy Now" program where there is a huge discussion abt having a 28th amendment to the Constitution - which will "de-person" the Corporations.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Thanks, I'll check it out. n/t
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
35. Very well stated, madflo. Rec.
I'm very sorry about your loss of your granddaughter.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
37. By contrast
I would say that the Democrats really need to get partisan. As the Wise Man said, given the choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the real thing.

The one thing that I would hope someone would do is get Obama a copy of the collected speeches of FDR and tell him to start reading and then using them to crib his own speeches. Otherwise, I fear, we'll be looking at a Republican President in 2012.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
38. Thanks, Madflo. nt
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
40. Liberals could stand to take a lesson
from Ross Perot.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
42. Right on!
As one of the so called 'lefties' I agree.
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lupinella Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
43. Thank you.
I'm so sorry for your loss & your pain.
i agree 100% with your post. I, too, am a Floridian who gets angry for being an 'extremist' when all I want to be considered is a Democrat. I don't hold any tin-foil hat notions, nor do I think we should just accept being dominated by Republicans that have given themselves a Democratic paint job. This country is going to have to be dragged into the 21st century in terms of rights - it be nice if those who spoke for our party spoke for the future.
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