The Word 'Articulate' Is One Of The Most Commonly Used Descriptive Terms For Political Candidates.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

This holds true regardless of race, gender, religion or otherwise.

This is a fact. It is all I feel the need to say on the subject and think when others here are attempting to cast an objective opinion on the Biden situation, that they should keep the above fact in mind when doing so. Facts and context are important when trying to forge objective opinion.

Peace,

OMC

[rusty charly]

1. How'd we end up with Chimp-boy, then?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. I Have No Idea What Your Logic Or Premise Is Behind That Statement. It's Confusing.

[rusty charly]

22. oh, well.

[WI_DEM]

28. I don't think anybody ever confused chimpy as being articulate and we wound up

with him because of a political decision by one-vote of the US Supreme Court.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. And Because Of The POS Nader LOL

[rusty charly]

53. exactly

my post was somewhat ironic, but that didn't come across.

better next time.

[omega minimo]

63. The ability to perceive irony is usually associated with being

articulate :hi:

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

54. "Articulate" is not always a "good thing"

* is not exactly articulate.

Kerry was articulate and that was played as being elitist. The fact that he speaks French, and speaks it in public, was also spun as articulate and elitist.

* was spun as a plain, straight-talking, good-ol'-boy.

Inarticulate as he was, * won the election. Or at least got within stealing distance.

[omega minimo]

65. So what you're actually saying is "Spin" is not always a "good thing"

Anyone who fell for that bullshit comparison and thought they'd vote for Shrub because they could "have a beer with him" have a HELLUVA lot more to answer for than Nader does.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

71. Right. "Spin" is not always a good thing

It's a good thing when it's our "spin" and gets Democratic votes. Otherwise, it's a bad thing. "Spinning" is just "selling". The Repubs did a good "sell" job in 2004. Democrats did a good one in 2006.

If the Repubs "packaged" Bush as someone you could have a beer with, and that sold enough voters, well, don't blame the voters. Blame us. If the Repubs "spun" Kerry's articulate and educated style as being elitist and aloof, and that sold the voters, don't blame the voters. Blame us. Better yet, learn from it and put an approachable candidate out there in 2008, if that's what floats the voters' boats.

Telling voters they have something to answer for, that they're maroons, is probably not real productive.


And "Nader"? That's a whole other thing, worthy of it's own topic and flames. :)

[omega minimo]

72. "Approachable"? Well, it's good to know where the bar is set

[MonkeyFunk]

2. I don't agree

I think it's just presumed that somebody capable of becoming President be somewhat articulate. It seems to be pointed out more often when the subject is African-American.

I remember Condoleezza Rice being called "articulate" quite often, and I found it pretty offensive.

There's no way around this - Biden goofed up big.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

4. That presumption has been shattered by Dim Son.

I'm not defending Biden, but perhaps that's where he's coming from - the bar has been set so incredibly low.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. I Don't See How You Can Disagree With Fact. It Is Used ALL THE TIME For Political Candidates,

regardless of race, gender, religion or otherwise. That can't be disagreed with. It is just simply the way it is.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. well

maybe we observe things differently. I don't see the word used frequently in reference to white politicians. Nor do I see comments on their personal hygiene. It's just presumed that a presidential candidate can speak in full sentences and shower occasionally.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. Two Things:

First, just take literally 2 minutes of your time to cross reference some articulate politicians on google. Pick any of them. You'll see.

Second, the 'Clean' reference was in no way shape or form about hygiene. It is one of the most illogical claims I've seen in quite some time to try and convince people of otherwise.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. ok..

test one:

google Condoleezza Rice Articulate - 148,000 hits

Madeleine Albright Articulate - 48,000 hits

Is Rice three times more articulate than Albright?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. As Someone Who Does Data Analysis For A Living, I Find Your Methods To Be Hilarious.

Not much more I can say about it then that. To use that as ANY sort of legitimate evidence towards this is beyond laughable. Sorry.

[MonkeyFunk]

30. lol

you ask me to take two minutes to "research" and then you dismiss the results.

You're being ridiculous now.

The fact is, you don't see what Biden said as insulting or condescending. I do.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. You Obviously Misunderstood.

By research I meant to find examples of how it is used by others in the political arena and how easy it is to find that use for probably any articulate politician. I did not mean to do wholesale searches on word counts and think that meant anything.

My apologies for thinking you'd understand the exercise.

[MonkeyFunk]

33. Well

I compared web articles regarding two female Secretaries of State (and btw, Albright's term was twice as long as Condi's has been, and both had high-profile positions prior to becoming SOS.)

Three times as many articles use the word "articulate" regarding Condi Rice than Albright. Is it a stone-cold scientific fact? No, of course not. But it is indicative of my belief that the word is used more often in relation to African-American people.

Just one data point.

And calm down - it's just a discussion board. No need to be so rude.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. Like I Said, Using A Google Count As Data Comparison Is Laughable.

That holds true even outside of the fact that internet usage has increased by a brazillion percent during Condi's reign than Albright's.

[MonkeyFunk]

41. well

if you just google their names, Rice has 60% more articles in total than Albright, but 150% times more mention of the word "articulate".

So how do you propose to test your thesis that the word "articulate" is used just as frequently for white politicians as for black politicians?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. This Is So Amazingly Silly. If You Think For A Second That Your "Data" Can Be Used For

any kind of serious opinion making, then it is not even worth continuing this discussion with you. I'm not going to even pretend for a second that this notion is worthy of a back and forth, since doing so would begin to lend even the slightest bit of legitimacy to your premise of data analysis, which it in reality does not have.

Sorry.

[MonkeyFunk]

47. I asked you

outright how you propose to test your thesis. Why not answer instead of just dancing around the fact that far more articles refer to Condi as "articulate" than articles about Albright?

I'm open to ideas - I said it was just one data point.

Share your expertise and tell us how we can better test your notion.

[Kelly Rupert]

66. Here's some more data gleaned with your methods.

Google search, no quotes.

"Kerry articulate" 852,000
"Gore articulate" 737,000
"Bush articulate" 1,130,000
"Edwards articulate" 885,000
"Obama articulate" 312,000
"Sharpton articulate" 79,500

What does this teach us? That either Bush is the most articulate man alive, or that Google searches are worthless.

[Virginia Dare]

49. You'll find just as many instances of it being used...

as a racist condescension. I'm not meaning to imply that it was how Biden meant it, but nontheless that is the way it is used.

[kiahzero]

37. Here are some examples.

Candy Crowley, CNN: "He is... a very articulate man. ... He was front and center during the Monica Lewinsky impeachment trial of Bill Clinton and was considered very articulate during that time." (January 1, 2003)

Blogger Steve Benen, the Carpetbagger Report: "... he is a very bright, articulate, and aggressive lawmaker." (August 26, 2003)

David Greenberg, Legal Affairs: "Fresh-faced and articulate, he possessed a warmth that his rivals lacked." (January 2004)

Slate partial headline: "... he is bright and articulate and really, really youthful. ..." (February 6, 2004)

Charles Paul Freund, Reason Online: "lmost all the coverage was founded on the theme of him as an articulate, appealing, and energetic political force." (July 7, 2004)

Rob McManamy, the University of Chicago Chronicle: "The charismatic, passionate and articulate ... is speaking out about the need to lift more Americans out of poverty and into the middle class." (March 2, 2006)

David Hampton, clarionledger.com: "He is young, smart, articulate and a good Southerner with moderate tendencies and a heart for traditional Democratic issues." (December 28, 2006)

wikiDemocrats.com: "He's charming, he's smart and he's articulate." (as of January 29, 2007)

Oh... wait... those are all about Edwards.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. Thanks. And You Could Make A Similar List For Just About Any Truly Articulate Politician.

Now granted, that doesn't mean it should be the only piece of information used in casting an opinion, but it damned well is an important piece that should absolutely be part of the objective process.

[kiahzero]

40. This is DU. Good luck finding objectivity.

Biden is disliked here, so most people will not hesitate to ascribe the worst motivations possible.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

42. I Find Objectivity To Be One Of The Most Important Qualities Anyone Can Have.

I can't tell you how much harm is created in this world due to those who choose not to have it.

[kiahzero]

43. Agreed.

I'm trying very hard to cultivate a sense of it, because it is absolutely critical to have as an attorney.

[Virginia Dare]

58. Then Biden shouldn't have used it in the context of his race...

that's the bottom line. He shouldn't have made reference to his race at all. Stupid insensitive mistake on his part.

[Beaverhausen]

3. People seem to want to ignore the fact that Obama is black

He is black. That fact cannot be ignored.

He will be held to a higher standard, just as a female candidate will.

Biden was pointing out that he had all the right attributes as a black presidential candidate.

[Catherine Vincent]

5. How about the word "clean"?

But we should give Biden a break. I didn't know he had brain surgery in his past.

[Beaverhausen]

9. I take "clean" to mean no baggage, no questionable business dealings...

...or personal indescretions in his past.

[Virginia Dare]

12. I think you're right about that...

but I also still think it was a stupid remark.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. It Was Completely Benign.

Inferring anything else is completely disingenuous in my opinion.

It either meant clean cut or having no baggage (I lean towards the latter).

[marmar]

21. I agree that he intended no malice by it, but anyone that clueless about semantics....

has no business running for president. He'll be an absolute disaster. Remember, he's the same guy that told a group of Indian businessmen that you "can't be in a 7-Eleven without an Indian accent."
Regardless of what he intended to say, he'll be perceived as someone who's uncomfortable with people who are somehow different than he is. And for a party that needs 85 percent of the black vote and a majority of women to win the White House, that perception is the kiss of death.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. The Part I Find Pathetic Is This:

"he'll be perceived as someone who's uncomfortable with people who are somehow different than he is"

I find it pathetic that instead of helping to thwart that perception, many are choosing to propagate it further.

[marmar]

26. I'm just speculating about how it's going to play in the real world, beyond DU....

I've gotten three "Do you believe what Biden said...." emails from friends, non-DUers, who probably better reflect the level of political engagement of the population as a whole. It might not be fair, but that's the nature of the beast. It's all over the liberal blogosphere right now - HuffPost, DailyKos and others. I didn't think he was going to win anyway, but I think he's really toast now.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. I Agree. I Don't Mind That He's Toast, As He's My Least Favorite Candidate To Begin With.

But I will always steadfastly defend against character attacks on another that I believe to be unjustified. That's just me. :)

[Little Wing]

6. Because it isn't a compliment, and it isn't a knock

[Hell Hath No Fury]

11. The word "articulate"...

is also the word most commonly used by whites towards blacks when they are surprises at "how well" they talk.

As a white woman, I have heard that word usage al my life.

[Virginia Dare]

14. Absolutely right, it's racist code speak...

that may not be the way he meant it, but nontheless, it is.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

That's Why Context And Objectivity Are Important.

Based on how commonly this is used for politicians along with the fact that it was said by a politician who is also running for President, would seem to make it highly likely that the context was in the same way that it is used in an amazingly frequent number of times when talking about politicians running for office.

I'm not saying that others can't have their own opinion on what he meant. I just think in doing so, and in looking at the situation objectively, it is important to know this important piece of information.

[foo_bar]

35. here's some context:

Sally loves to touch my hair! She always asks me how I got my hair to do this. That makes me feel special. Like I have magical powers!

Johnny always says: "I'm not racist; one of my best friends is Black!" I think he might mean me!

Johnny is generous enough to remark upon how "articulate" I am! That makes me feel good!

http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. The Last Thing That Was, Was Context.

Nice try though. (actually, it wasn't)

[foo_bar]

52. I'm glad you could deduce that in 1 minute

You should check out the site, though, should you become interested in examining a different culture's perspective.

[foo_bar]

61. slightly more context

Note to Biden. Well-spoken black people hate it when white people call them "articulate." It's the modern-day version of what white people used to say back in the day when they thought that by saying "He's a credit to his race" they were saying something that a black person would welcome hearing.

Those dated words, like Biden's comments, were patronizing at the very least. And they also appeared to carry some pretty negative assumptions about the majority of the race.

In fact, Biden could've pared his thoughts down and just called Obama a credit to his race. It would have had pretty much the same effect.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2007/01/articulate_obam.html

Southern racists often say "he's very smart" or he's very articulate" about a black man, as if they don't expect a black person to be smart.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3085486&mesg_id=3086121

[kestrel91316]

13. It's an effective way of cantrasting them with Bush, who is, well............

somewhat LESS than articulate.

[Virginia Dare]

16. You may very well be correct about that...

however, if a Republican had said that very same thing, I know for a fact that I and probably many others on this message board would take extreme offense and would be trashing that person to no end.

At the very least, it was an extremely insensitive and ill advised remark, and Joe needs to go back to the drawing board here.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. I Wouldn't. I'd Reach The Same Objective Conclusion I Have Here.

I also don't consider it to have been extremely insensitive by any means, but that makes sense since I consider its use to have been solely for the reasons it is used so frequently to begin with.

[trumad]

17. Here's the thing...

this aint the first time he's screwed up when it comes to comments regarding race. If this was his first time...then I'd be more inclined to give him a break.

BUT--hey...you can read his mind and hey----you say it's "fact".... so you must know? :eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. I See You Have Trouble With Context. Allow Me To Help You.

"BUT--hey...you can read his mind and hey----you say it's "fact".... so you must know? "

Let me help correct your contextual error, if I may. I never said my opinion of his intentions was a fact. I said that the term is an amazingly common one used towards politicians running for office and that is fact. Huge difference there. Huge.

:hi:

[mtnester]

32. My husband is a really articulate caucasian man, and he has all his teeth too!

How does that sound?

What I would normally say is my husband is a very articulate man...the word "white" (or African American as in the case of Biden)is NOT part of the sentence, and referring to his possession of teeth is a clear example to define (caucasian) and deflect (has all his teeth so he is not trash or stereotypical)and everyone should know that....at the very LEAST a political figure used to speaking in public should REALLY know that.

This is not a complex issue for me....sorry Mr. Biden...shame on you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Your Argument Has Nothing To Do With The Fact Stated In The OP.

You can reach whatever conclusion you'd like, of course. But the fact that the term 'articulate' is an AMAZINGLY common one used to describe politicians running for office, regardless of race, gender, religion or otherwise, should not be discarded when doing so.

[mtnester]

44. Agreed about articulate...nothing wrong with that word at all

no argument from me there. It is NOT a word that comes to mind when referring to W as an example.

You also know what I mean as well. This is the thread I decided to put my hand into the fire of the many spin-offs of today's hoopla.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. Oh Ok LOL Gotcha.

:)

[mtnester]

51. Thank you!

:)

[cynatnite]

48. This does bother me a lot...

After this Biden comment and the reaction to it here at DU it makes me feel even worse in a way. If I refer to Obama as clean, articulate or any other compliment it can be taken as disparaging other blacks. I don't understand that and I worry that I might say something that'll offend someone when the intent was never there to begin with.

What does a person do?

[stillcool]

50. Is the "First-Black American" who is "Clean"

"Main-Stream" and "Bright" also commonly used to describe political candidates? Why don't you just say that you find nothing wrong with Mr. Biden and his statement?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. Personally, I Don't. But That Doesn't Mean You Can't.

I have no problem with someone disagreeing and arriving at their own conclusion. All I'm putting forth here is a fact that should be part of the objective process in doing so. Some people may be lead to believe that the term isn't a common one in politics, or may not have known that it is. It is not only common, when referring to articulate political candidates, but it is amazingly common. I think that's important to know when trying to forge an objective opinion. But by all means I don't think that should be the only thing considered.

[Zenlitened]

56. Sometimes words have a sort of sub-text or implication to some readers/listeners....

... that may not be immediately apparent to others.

One person may think of it as a perfectly innocent word, but another may have a cultural or historical perspective that brings up troubling associations with that very same word.

So while they know perfectly well the literal meaning or usage of the word, they also know how it's been mis-used in the past or in other settings.

It's a tricky issue, one that often trips people up when they least expect it, or when we least expect it from them.



(crosspost)

[omega minimo]

67. a possibility that "articulate" may come across as "talks white"

[sniffa]

57. it's true - i hear it aLL the time

in fact, i can name a ton of poLitcaL that have that descriptive term appLied to them.

there's coLin poweLL.. condi rice.. j.c. watts.... aLan keyes.. aL sharpton.. shirLey chishoLm.... maxine waters... oprah winfrey.. oh wait, she's not president yet.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

59. But how often is it prefaced with their ethnicity?

[pdrichards114]

60. Articulate only means, able to communicate clearly or effectively, intelligible.

This is not synonymous with eloquent or loquacious. Articulate is often confused with statesman.

Bush is no statesman, and he is not articulate. He mangles his similes and metaphors, and too often his basic grammar. His vocabulary is minimalist and his conceptualizations are puerile. He is the antithesis of articulate embodied. He is a walking, talking, eating, shitting, fucking dunce-cap!!!!

[Nikki Stone1]

62. OperationMindCrime, are there any word counts of "articulate" in descriptions of candidates?

I never thought of the word articulate as racist code until tonight. It would be good to know if there is a bias in descriptions of minority candidates including women.

[ecstatic]

64. That's true, but it is also the blanket "compliment" used by many whites when describing smart

blacks. Even on DU.

[Kelly Rupert]

69. And when describing smart whites.

Even on DU.

[treestar]

68. Are there any other words that are considered insulting by

blacks? It's only fair that we know them. If we're going to be called racists when we don't intend to be racist, then it seems only fair we know the trigger words. Because "articulate" should not be one of them. I find it very confusing. When I say Shrub is "inarticulate" I thought I was insulting him. Now it turns out I may not be? It is bad to be articulate?

It seems some sort of power play, the power to be able to call you a racist, knowing it is humiliting to be called so. So make up little things that even liberals can fall foul of, unintentionally.

[Guaranteed]

70. Do people even call Bill Clinton "articulate"?

He is certainly someone who could be called that, but I've never seen someone refer to him that way.