An open letter to Jon Stewart

[no limit]

Yo Stew Beef,

I hope you're enjoying your spot under that bus, I know it's a bit crowded down there by now. You see, all these years when we all enjoyed the intellectual tone of your show and the change you have brought to the national discourse in this country we didn't actually think you meant that there were any flaws with "our" side. I mean sure, we appreciate that you may have educated an entire generation to think critically about what they hear or read in the media but really we just wanted you to educate them to think critically about "their" media, not "our" media. Come on buddy, get with the program already.

You must understand that "we" are perfect in every way. There is nothing wrong with us. And shame for you to try and show otherwise using actual video clips and actual statements made by "our" side. When "we" start political discussions by saying that the other side wants to see us dead we have a right to do that because our shit, in fact, does not stink. But when "they" start their discussion by saying we want nazis to takeover our government then clearly that's because they are total racist assholes.

Sincerely,

The people that don't like being forced to look in the mirror

[madmax]

1. That may work.

I don't get the impression that he's thin skinned. Maybe you should send it to him - would be interesting if he replied.

[Waiting For Everyman]

2. Stewart just pushed Palin's meme of "lamestream media".

You consider that a smart move? I sure don't.

What would this election effort be like without KO or Shultz? Do you think it might be a lot harder?

Facts matter. And the more that credible news people are equated with propagandists, the less competent journalists we will have. Stewart is reinforcing what he's complaining about.

If Stewart gave a damn about valid information reporting in this country, slamming and KO and Schultz would be the LAST THING he would EVER consider doing.

His message was clear - that he couldn't care less about educating low-info voters.

Stewart is now an official jackass. And defending him is something you might want to reconsider. He doesn't deserve any praise for what he did.

[no limit]

3. The media is lame, not for the reasons Palin thinks it's lame

What would this election look like without KO or Shultz? I don't know. But I know it would look a whole lot better if instead of KO or Shultz we had people like Maddow in their time slot.

Yes, facts matter. You don't have to be an asshole or a dick or an opportunist to get facts across.

Yes, Stewart's message was perfectly clear, but it appears to have gone over your head. As long as the media remains a shouting match from 2 opposite sides nothing will change for the better, things will remain just as they are. And I don't know about you, but I don't like where we are.

[Poboy]

8. No offense, but you are very naive. "Gone over our head"? No, but

continue to believe that if we only stand down and play nice, that all will be well.

You're a fool.

[no limit]

10. Nobody said anything about standing down and playing nice. Like I said, way over your head

but thanks for calling me naive.

The point is to show just how insane the other side is. But you don't have to be insane to show that.

[Poboy]

14. First you call anyone who disagrees with you incapable of getting the

brilliance and magnificence, but get offended by my 'naive' comment.
You throw out an insult, but take issue when it is mildly countered.

Secondly, are you calling KO and Ed 'insane'?
Okay, I'm done with you. 'no limit' on the hyperbole yourself.

[no limit]

16. The person said what Stewart did was exactly the same as what Palin does

it went over his or her head. You chose to chime in and call me naive. In your post you suggested the point of the rally was to play nice and stand down. If you believe that was the point of the rally it did go over your head.

Ignorning me because you don't agree with me won't change that fact.

[JackintheGreen]

4. Because KO is never hyperbolic. At all. n/t

[CommonSensePLZ]

18. Angry, hyperbolic for example but not truly

Like saying "there's an Irish problem" as a historical context to Bill O'Reilly, an Irish-American who believes "there's a Muslim problem" (his words), meaning different historical periods have had different, but all of them wrong, bigotries.

[bobburgster]

5. K&R

Admitting faults of our own will strengthen what we say.
Thanks for the post.

[CommonSensePLZ]

6. Boo-hoo! Poor widdle Jon =(

Oh please. He threw people under the bus himself, his rally was a smash and he makes at least 1.5 million dollars a year - He is no victim and I'm a fan of his but we're allowed to disagree with him, he's not perfect or infallible either.

[no limit]

7. How much does Keith Olbermann make each year?

I see a memo has gone out. Let's attack Jon Stewart in every way possible, even if we are total hypocrites about it.

Your username is extremely ironic, you do know that right?

[CommonSensePLZ]

9. You're full of it - AND THIS THROLL THREAD IS NOT RESTORING SANITY

You come here and attack every and any person who disagree with your hero and then tell us we're wrong, you're gonna cut yourself throwing stones from inside your glass house with the windows unopened.

[no limit]

11. You had a problem with Jon because he makes 1.5 mil a year. I suppose you have the same problem

with KO?

Or are you perfectly content with being a hypocrite?

[CommonSensePLZ]

12. I don't give a crap about their money

My point is that mild criticism of his approach and message isn't evil. I've posted comments to people who had harsh, but reasonable things to say about Olbermann, but I didn't exaggerate like you did, which BTW was kind of one of the things Jon said in his rally that he was opposed to. So you really need to understand what you're defending before you try to.

[no limit]

15. Ummm...if you don't care about the money why did you just bring it up?

[CommonSensePLZ]

17. Because it's true

The way you described it, Jon must be living in a gutter as a hated pariah when in reality he's a man who's made success and fortune through the world of politics, which ALWAYS includes people who have disagreements; That was a theme of his rally and the opener of last night's show.

[no limit]

19. I described Jon as a guy that lives in a gutter? I'm not sure I ever did that

but please, keep talking. You are proving my point better than I could ever do myself.

Thanks.

Everytime you mention KO do you mention his salary each and every time?

[CommonSensePLZ]

20. "A memo has gone out. Let's attack Jon Stewart in every way possible"

"You must understand that "we" are perfect in every way"

You continue to prove both my points, that: A) You're full of it, and B) You don't even understand what the hell Jon was talking about, but want to defend it anyway, thus are even more full of it, because this trolling is NOT "restoring sanity".

Good bye, trouble maker.

[no limit]

22. A memo must have gone out. Because you never before mentioned Stewart's income level before

nor KO's income. yet you did here.

The perfect in every way was sarcasm, which you seem to be proving. Does KO have faults? Should those faults be pointed out? Was Stewart wrong for pointing them out?

[fishwax]

54. lol -- saying he makes 1.5 mill and that "I"m a fan of his but we're allowed to disagree with him"

is attacking him in every way possible? :rofl:

[CrawlingChaos]

36. I read that he made $14 million last year

Who the hell is he to tell people who don't have money for food to "take it down a notch"?

[no limit]

39. I bet 99% of the loud mouths out there are perfectly well off

It's not often you have people that can't buy food running out and posting angry posts online or protesting in the streets.

KO also makes 10s of millions a year. I guess he has no right to be angry. Amirite?

[cleveramerican]

13. I suspect his comments were genuine

It just might be how he truly feels
There is great power in sincerity

and anybody who's pissed at him for that is a pity.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. It is, of course, possible to be genuine and sincere

and wrong.

Stewart is a comic. You become a comic by using humor to deflect the attacks of bullies. Other people, who do not become comics, learn to take on bullies by standing up to them and, if necessary, take a beating, but standing up to them nonetheless.

He has his way of dealing with the insane right - KO has his.

The only thing I'm pissed about it that he seems to fail to recognize that KO and Shultz are just as right as he is - only in a different way.

[cleveramerican]

23. Just try and convice a sincere person they are wrong.

it nearly impossible.
I'd bet his response to critics of every agenda would be "Fuck You, its my rally"

[JVS]

24. "intellectual tone of your show"?

:rofl:

[no limit]

26. I guess you've never seen the show. Maybe you should watch it some time

[JVS]

30. And miss Masterpiece Theatre? Surely not!

[jgraz]

25. LEAVE JON STEWART ALONE!!!

Seriously, the guy makes fun of people for a living. I think he can take a little criticism.

[no limit]

27. LEAVE KEITH OLBERMANN AND ED SHULTZ ALONE!!1!!!!!1111

Seriously, it isn't that he can't take a little criticism. The issue is that the criticism is bullshit.

[jgraz]

28. It's not that Stewart can't take criticism...

it seems that some people can't take him being criticized -- especially if it's about his treatment of media figures whom many dislike for their criticism of (gasp) the President.

[JVS]

29. Bingo

[no limit]

31. I can take him being criticized. The point remains this criticism is bullshit.

[jgraz]

32. OK, well that's the kind of reasoned, sane argument that I'm sure Jon would approve of.

:eyes:

[no limit]

33. By all means. Feel free to give some criticism, you are yet to do so

Anytime you're ready let me know.

and I love that you think I look to Jon Stewart to make sure he would approve of my arguments.

[jgraz]

35. It's called "hypocrisy"

You praise the "intellectual tone" of his show, and then you respond with "bullshit".

The criticisms are out there, I've made them and others have made them. Do you not know the substance of the basic issue being raised? Are you saying you're calling arguments "bullshit" without even understanding what they are? Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

[no limit]

38. And I made my reasons for why its bullshit here know as well as in other posts

Yes, I know the substance. And it's bullshit and I have, as well as many others have, explained why it is bullshit. You didn't chime in here offering logic or reason, you came in here claiming people simply can't take the fact that others are criticising Jon Stewart. The fact is it's not about what we can and can not take, it's about the substance of that criticism which is flawed.

Now, if you want to tell me what specific criticisms you have I will be happy to address them with something a little more substantive than "bullshit". You are yet to do that. You can also see my thread on the topic here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9437791

But right now all your are doing is throwing around words like "hypocrisy", or you continually make condescending suggestions that we think Jon Stewart is some kind of God like figure and we can't take criticisms of him. But the fact is I as well as others have tried to have a reasonable discussion about why people such as Keith Olbermann also need to be criticized. We are met with people like you, that say we can't handle simple criticisms without actually addressing the substance of why we don't think those criticisms are fair.

[jgraz]

40. So this post was just to be sarcastic and further demonstrate how you don't get it.

Ok, then. Let me explain it to you.

It's not that both sides just deserve some abstract form of "criticism", it's not that they both "bare" responsibility as you said in your other post (thanks for the link, btw. I hadn't unrec'ed that one yet).

The real issue is that what the far right and the center left do are qualitatively different from one another. One side lies, spreads hate, spreads fear and basically tries to do whatever they can to divide people -- all so their corporate masters can make an extra buck. The other side usually just stands back and watches them do it.

Which is why Stewart's "they all do it" message is not helpful. The left needs to stop accommodating. We need to stop trying to get along and/or compromise. We need to realize that the right IS exactly what the most forceful on our side say they are: evil, craven, bloodthirsty criminals. These people don't want us to lose elections -- they want us dead. If we continue to pretend otherwise, pretend that we can somehow negotiate with these terrorists, that their viewpoint is even one-percent correct, then we are going to lose.

And, today, we are going to see a great example of what happens when you try to compromise with people who hate you and hate this country.

[no limit]

41. So it is your opinion that some on the left never lie or distort the truth?

Of course they do from time to time. Stewart's message was not that they all do it, or that they are all equally bad. His message was that they all suck. And he is absolutely right about that.

Now what you just said, that the right wants us dead, is exactly the kind of batshit insane logic Stewart pointed to. You just proved my point, that the shit on our side does in fact also stink. My parents are on the right on many issues, to you they are terrorists. People like you, that are so blinded by your hate, actually think that my parents want to see their child die because of their ideology. You think that if I died tomorrow my parents wouldn't throw a funeral but instead would throw a celebration party. This logic is absolutely bat shit insane, and how you don't understand that is beyong me.

So thank you for finally telling me what your criticism is. Because your criticism just proved my point and for that matter the point of the rally.

And thanks for the unrec, my feelings are truly hurt.

[jgraz]

42. Your attempt at a strawman is almost not a strawman

Give an example of a truly left-wing person lying or distorting the truth to push their argument further left. Usually when the so-called left lie, they do it to excuse their compromise with the GOP or the corporatist wing of their own party.

But, since your position is "of course they do it from time to time", you should have no problem coming up with several obvious examples to prove your point.

On the other topic, your willful blindness is almost beyond belief. Go tell the employees of The Tides Foundation how "batshit insanse" my position is. Why don't you explain it to George Tiller's family? Or the family of Stephen Tyrone Johns, the guard at the Holocaust Museum who was killed by another one of these right-wing freaks?

Right now, there are right-wingers who are supporting Uganda's "kill the gays" law. There are teabaggers holding up signs about the "tree of liberty". Trust me, these people want us dead. I've personally received death threats from right-wingers, and had my address and pictures of my house posted on Free Republic.

Now you either seem to be getting desperate to save face in this debate, or you're experiencing some sort of psychic break. The idea that I would imply that EVERY right-winger wants to kill us, or that your parents want you dead is just about the most ridiculous thing I've seen posted here in at least 24 hours (which is saying a LOT).

So, I guess you just proved your own point. The self-proclaimed "left" does distort the truth. You just did it.

[no limit]

43. You didn't answer my question. Do my parents want me to die?

You said people on the right want us to die. You didn't say some people on the right, you said people on the right. Now should I go and pull up comments you may have made about O'Reilly after he said muslims attacked us on 9/11?

Your hypocrisy and absolutely batshit insane logic is truly astounding. I know, looking in the mirror sucks. But you might want to do it some time.

Wow, you received death threats? You know who else get death threats? People on the right. you honestly don't think Glenn Beck ever gets death threats? Does that mean that everyone on the left wants to kill Glenn Beck? Nothing in your rant is logical, as I said above, everything about what you are saying is bat shit insane and it is the reason we can't fix what is so fucked up with our country.

And do you really need me to pull up a lie from Keith Olbermann that he used to promote left rhetoric? You can't possibly think it has never happened. As much as I like Jon Stewart (enough to fly 1,800 miles to go see his rally) I would never claim that in his 10+ year career on the daily show he never told a lie. Becuase I'm not naive.

[jgraz]

44. OK, you need to take a time out

I answered your question about as clearly as is possible. You're now playing silly games, probably in the hopes of convincing yourself that you didn't just faceplant in this argument.

Log off, take a few deep breaths and try to calm down. You can't provide a single example to support your position, and your only response to my arguments is to make up the worst kind of strawmen. The conversation is over. If you still don't understand why, call your parents and have them explain it to you. If they're not busy planning your funeral, that is. :eyes:

[no limit]

45. You said the right wants us dead. This is what you said. It is not a strawmen

Look up what strawmen means, because you clearly don't know.

My parents are on the right politically. Do they want me dead? So, no, until you answer my question or take back waht you said you are ignoring what I'm asking you.

I am not the one that needs to take a time out, you actually believe that people want you dead based on nothing more than political ideology.

You also didn't answer my second question. Do you actually believe that in all the time KO has had his TV show he never once told a lie?

This is in no way a silly game. I am going off of what you said. You said the people on the right are terrorists that want us dead. Did you not?

[jgraz]

47. Here's what I want you to do.

Print out this subthread and show it to a friend whose opinion you trust. Ask them if they think you're being reasonable and playing by the minimal rules of good-faith debate.

You don't have to tell us what they said. Just show them the thread. Meanwhile, I'm gonna go enjoy my evening.

[no limit]

48. "These people don't want us to lose elections -- they want us dead."

I am quoting you right now. Telling me to take a rest, print out the thread and get other people's opinions on it, etc does not change what you said.

Now you are refusing to clarify, refusing to take it back, and refusing to have any further discussion. Like I said, Jon Stewart was right, and you are an example of why.

[jgraz]

58. What I'm refusing to do is to dignify your ridiculous frothing

You are purposely mischaracterizing what I said, even after I provided you specific examples of how I meant my comments. I don't understand why you're doing it, since it's not productive and goes DIRECTLY against the debating approach you pretend to advocate for in your OP. My only guess is that you got your feelings hurt and now you want to make me look as bad as you do in the above exchange. Good luck with that.

First rule of holes: stop digging.

[Poboy]

60. You have the patience of Job. I gave up on this one some time ago.

It is pretty funny though how the OP is 'going to the mat', using any means necessary and all means available.
Very much in opposition to anything Jon might agree with him on. What a fanboi.

[jgraz]

62. My guess is he's trying out for a spot on the Olympic Not Getting It Team.

:shrug:

[no limit]

65. Be sure to check under your bed tonight, a republican might be waiting trying to kill you

[jgraz]

67. One is reminded of Christine O'Donnell high-fiving after her First Amendment debate.

You sure showed me. :rofl:

[no limit]

61. So you did not say the right wants to see you dead?

What Im reading above isn't actually what you posted?

This statement did not come from you?

---------------

Which is why Stewart's "they all do it" message is not helpful. The left needs to stop accommodating. We need to stop trying to get along and/or compromise. We need to realize that the right IS exactly what the most forceful on our side say they are: evil, craven, bloodthirsty criminals. These people don't want us to lose elections -- they want us dead. If we continue to pretend otherwise, pretend that we can somehow negotiate with these terrorists, that their viewpoint is even one-percent correct, then we are going to lose.

-------

You are yet to clarify that statement in any way. You keep repeating I made an ass out of myself. Yet you can't explain this simple statement or simply admit that not everyone on the right wants you dead.

[JonLP24]

52. I gotta rec this thread just for this exchange

:rofl:

[fishwax]

53. nail, head, etc.

:kick:

[DevonRex]

34. hahahahahahahahaha

I loved that. :rofl:

[defendandprotect]

37. Jon ... no one thinks left is perfect ... but comparising it to Beck and Limbaugh???

Presume you didn't mean to do that --

but get in touch with Olbermann and Schultz -- and talk it out --

listen to one another --

AND keep FDR in mind -- and right wing BS about "polarizing" citizens is just that--!!


FDR polarized no one -- and chased down the right wing the very way we should be

doing now -- OPENLY, LOUDLY, STRONGLY, FREQUENTLY, HONESTLY -- CALLING THEM OUT

FOR THE CROOKS THEY ARE!!

FDR didn't game-play about which side he was on --


The program is often too silly now, Jon --

We need you around -- shape it up and get back on the ball --

The idea of the rally was great - but you do have to choose sides, finally --




.

[laughingliberal]

46. Unrec. nt

[no limit]

49. I actually appreciate you posting that

I don't like the fact you unrec'd it but I appreciate the fact you atleast made it known who unrec'd it.

[Naturyl]

50. If anybody relied on Jon Stewart to "educate" them

I'd suggest they have some intellectual issues.

[no limit]

51. It would have been much better for MSNBC or Fox News to educate them...

...about critically thinking about the media. Am I right?

[Naturyl]

55. No. It would be better to avoid comics, pundits, and the corporate media entirely for education.

No?

[no limit]

57. Yes. But the majority of people, especially young people

start out their political leanings using shows such as the daily show.

[JVS]

59. [citation needed]

[no limit]

64. My citation is common sense. If the majority of americans went out of the way to educate themselves

about critically thinking about the media the media wouldn't today be in the state that it is in.

[HughMoran]

56. You're describing 75% of the country

:D

[many a good man]

63. *Snort*

Zzzzzzzzzz

[KansasVoter]

66. Proud to admit unreccing this POS