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"A voter-verified paper ballot as the ballot of record." Andy Stephenson

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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:31 AM
Original message
"A voter-verified paper ballot as the ballot of record." Andy Stephenson
This is the legal language that must be used in order to ensure that our future votes count.

Paper, not vapor.

I suspect this will be a hot topic by tomorrow morning.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. I disagree. This is the 21st century, not the 19th.
Edited on Tue Nov-02-10 11:32 AM by robcon
Electronic voting, with verification, is the best way.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. ignorance is bliss!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. No -- would you go "paperless" in your bank records .... ????
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I pretty much already have
except for ATM deposits - I always get a receipt with check copies.

Never had a problem, but if BofA were to simply deny I had made a deposit it would be a mega-headache.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. So you would NOT go paperless with ATM deposits ... withdrawals--?
And presumably, you have monthly statements .... ?

Savings? PAPER?

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I try to avoid records of my withdrawals.
:D

and I do get statements but in practice I only look at the online version (which I can print out if I need to).

B of A wouldn't be able to get away with much in my case. But because so few actually are involved tabulating votes and because the stakes are so high, IMO the risk is much greater for election fraud.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Basically, obviously, I think you're hedging.... we need PAPER records ... not vapor ....
Edited on Tue Nov-02-10 12:32 PM by defendandprotect
And I'll quote the founders ....

"Because not all men are honest men .... we need a Bill of Rights" --

and that wasn't simply a verbal delivery and a handshake!

And, we have all the scams having piled up with records re foreclosures, etal --

Paper/pen/hand counting is the way to go!!


:)
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. You're right.
When I was in DC a few years ago at the National Archives I was amazed to find that the original documents of the Constitution & Declaration of Independence are almost completely unreadable (they were mounted in frames by a window years ago, and the sun faded them).

Is it not just a matter of time before some teabagger starts a movement claiming contemporary versions have been doctored? :eyes:

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Interesting ....
Many fear opening up a new Constitutional Conference because

rather than increasing rights the right wing may succeed in eliminating them!!


:)
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. I never request an paper receipt at ATM.
Why?

It just waste trees.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. Self delete
Edited on Tue Nov-02-10 12:52 PM by LanternWaste
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. I went paperless with my bank (and credit card, and mortgage) years ago.
Not exactly the best analogy.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
32.  You can verify your statements online, yes?
You can verify your statements online, yes? Double check to ensure there are no discrepancies or mistakes on the part of either party?

Can one verify online at a later date if there were any discrepancies with their vote? If not, I believe the analogy is quite valid.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Verification != paper.
I think you illustrate the point correctly there is no verification and that IS A PROBLEM.

However verification doesn't REQUIRE paper.

"Can one verify online at a later date if there were any discrepancies with their vote?"
Right now? No and you are right it is a problem however the claim was one needs paper to feel safe (verified results). I don't have paper receipts for most of my financial transactions yet feel very secure in the accuracy of those results.

Verification CAN be done by paper (like printed ballot or ATM) but it can be done by other means.

Voting is somewhat more difficult than banking because you have competing goals of verification and anonymity but it isn't impossible.
Imagine a system that assigned a psuedo-random unique ID to each individual vote cast. Note we aren't linking identity to result just unique ID thus preserving anonymity. After you vote your could take that unique ID and enter it into a website where it will show you the recorded vote thus providing verification.

For example vote 123456789 cast "Obama" (along w/ all other votes cast of same ballot) for Presidential election on Nov 4th, 2008 @ 2:38PM at precinct ABC123. The final vote server would contain all these digital records and the outcome of the election would be the sum of the votes cast.

Thus the election official is querying the same data you are. You are looking at your individual result and they are looking at the aggregate.

If the reported results for your ballot (123456789) doesn't match what the server indicates that is an irregularity you can report. If enough people notice their votes don't match then it would indicate corruption, system error, or fraud.
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laundry_queen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Baloney
Verification is useless if there is no reason to verify. If the polls said candidate x has a slight lead, and candidate x wins, no one will bother verifying. Nevermind that the polls are stacked against candidate y, and maybe candidate y has an amazing GOTV machine and perhaps actually won. You would just never know. You'd sit there in your 'it's safe because we have verification' bliss.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Well, can you make that argument for 2000 or 2004?
Edited on Tue Nov-02-10 12:18 PM by defendandprotect
Certainly, some paper ballots were available and recounts ordered --

so the next scam was put in place -- a GOP sponsored fascist rally to stop the

recount!

The demand was there, it's just that GOP is always upping their ability to steal!!

Computer steals weren't perfect, evidently -- so they still had to rely on right wing

Gang of 5 and their "activism." !!!

And, when journalists reviewed records and advised America that Gore had actually won

no matter how the votes were counted .... oops! were were off and running with 9/11 and

Anthrax!!

:evilgrin:




:)
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
49. All the computer security people interested in the issue say you are full of shit
Did you not pay attention to the DC internet vote debacle?
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. Pretty easy to electronically verify and save the tree.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. without open source code is is NOT "pretty easy".
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Ok, then let's get open source code.
Problem solved!
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Even with "open source code" there are a number of problems.
Bruce Schneier, one of the most respected computer security experts in the world, has called computerized voting a "horrendously dangerous idea".

Put it on paper.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. Mischarerterization.
Electronic voting is not internet/computer voting.

He said internet voting is essentially "impossible to achieve".

He has also outlined issues w/ electronic voting.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/11/the_problem_wit.html

"None of this means that we should abandon touch-screen voting; the benefits of DRE machines are too great to throw away. But it does mean that we need to recognize its limitations, and design systems that can be accurate despite them.
Computer security experts are unanimous on what to do. (Some voting experts disagree, but I think we’re all much better off listening to the computer security experts.

The problems here are with the computer, not with the fact that the computer is being used in a voting application.) And they have two recommendations:
DRE machines must have a voter-verifiable paper audit trails (sometimes called a voter-verified paper ballot). This is a paper ballot printed out by the voting machine, which the voter is allowed to look at and verify. He doesn’t take it home with him. Either he looks at it on the machine behind a glass screen, or he takes the paper and puts it into a ballot box. The point of this is twofold. One, it allows the voter to confirm that his vote was recorded in the manner he intended. And two, it provides the mechanism for a recount if there are problems with the machine.
Software used on DRE machines must be open to public scrutiny. This also has two functions. One, it allows any interested party to examine the software and find bugs, which can then be corrected. This public analysis improves security. And two, it increases public confidence in the voting process. If the software is public, no one can insinuate that the voting system has unfairness built into the code. (Companies that make these machines regularly argue that they need to keep their software secret for security reasons. Don’t believe them. In this instance, secrecy has nothing to do with security.)
Computerized systems with these characteristics won’t be perfect -- no piece of software is -- but they’ll be much better than what we have now. We need to start treating voting software like we treat any other high-reliability system. The auditing that is conducted on slot machine software in the U.S. is significantly more meticulous than what is done to voting software. The development process for mission-critical airplane software makes voting software look like a slapdash affair. If we care about the integrity of our elections, this has to change."
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Not a mischaracterization at all. That's a direct quote
and it has nothing to do with the internet.

He was talking in reference to computerized voting without a paper trail. And even with "open source code" we are still left to trusting the manufacturer that the code is not "ghost" code and is actually being used for counting. There are any number of hardware and software methods to subvert that process.

Bottom line: use a machine, but always verify with paper.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Meh.
Once again it is a false quote.

The words "Replacing paper ballots with computerized voting machines is a horrendously dangerous idea" appear on the inside flap of one of his books (created by a publisher to create sensational reason to purchase the book).

They never once appear in the text of "Beyond Fear: Thinking Sensibly About Security in an Uncertain World."

I have the ebook and the advantage is the ability to search for string rather effectively.

Please provide a direct cite by him with that claim. Not someone claiming he said that but a direct quote from the person you are quoting. I'll wait.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. It's so hard to forge a piece of paper.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #34
51. See, there's the problem: you have the ebook, not the paper one
so we can't verify!

Is you ebook open source coded?

I kid! I kid! Please don't hurt me!
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. a kick and rec for Andy
:kick:
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
41. and another. :)
:kick:

:loveya: Andy :loveya:
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. for Andy! nt
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. What we need is a way to verify our vote afterward also.
Like I know I went into the voting booth today and I KNOW who I voted for and I put it in the machine.....but still I'm always worried I did something wrong, or what if one of the circles I had to fill in got a piece of dirt on it in the machine and the ballot doesn't count because of it??

They should have a tear-off thing on the bottom of the ballot where I can tear it off and then the next day I can check and make sure my vote counted correctly. We would quickly find out where the system was NOT working by doing this.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. In fact, a copy of every US vote should go to United Nations ... or Jimmy Carter--!!
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. Amen! We would use less paper in any election than is used for daily throw-away ads in newspapers.
Edited on Tue Nov-02-10 12:04 PM by Fly by night
Anyone who argues that we must use unverifiable voting machines to measure the "consent of the governed" is pulling a con to try to rob us once again.

Having worked to do away with DREs in Tennessee (and everywhere else) for the past six years, I have begrudgingly supported a switch to paper ballots counted by optical scan machines and then re-counted manually in randomly selected precincts to verify the accuracy and honesty of the opscans. Today, I have another idea.

Let's take ALL proprietary voting equipment out of our elections (as many other countries are now doing). Let's vote on paper ballots that are hand-counted by high school Honor Society members who are paid with pizzas and cold drinks AND the honor of announcing what the "consent of the governed" truly is in their precincts.

It would greatly lower election costs, increase trust in our elections AND likely increase the participation in elections by young people -- historically the age-group with the lowest turnout.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Your student participation idea is brilliant. Make an OP on that, please?
It's a super wonderful proposal.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Kicked and recommended for your post and the OP.
Thanks to you and elehhhhna.:thumbsup:
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. But HS students wtih Democratic leanings get pepperoni
Junior Republicans get plain cheese. :D
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. I've made this post its own OP (thanks for that suggestion.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9442901

Please visit and comment. Thanks kindly, all y'all.

If we never stop fighting .... We are the ones ....
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
36. It takes our Adams County elections more than a week, full-time to scan count ballots.
And they have about 40 volunteers. I simply cannot imagine how long it would take to hand-count all those. Weeks? A month? And I know a lot of HS Honor Society kids. They have to go to school occasionally. Yes, even Honor Society.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Let's do the math, shall we?
Edited on Tue Nov-02-10 02:50 PM by Fly by night
Your county has a population of 363,857. If half of them are registered to vote (probably a high estimate) and half of those registered to vote do so (which is high for many elections), then each volunteer would have 2,250 ballots to count. Giving them a week to do so, that means that they are now taking one minute per ballot to feed those ballots through opscan machines? If that is the case, you need new opscan machines, since ours take less than a second to read a ballot.

Furthermore, if you use precinct-based opscans, the ballots are read shortly after the ballot is completed. If you use central-based opscans, those machines are equipped to read stacks of ballots at a time. My county (which once had central-based opscan) could collect the ballots from all 30+ precincts, carry them to the election office AND scan all of them in time for the results to be available by the 10:00 pm news.

Your math just doesn't work for me. Besides, if a country like Canada can vote on hand-counted paper ballots and have the results available by the 10:00 pm news on election night (or the 6:00 am news the day after), I expect we other Americans can do the same thing.

Frankly, I don't care how long it takes to conduct elections that everyone can trust. It may take you a week to earn your paycheck but only a minute to have it stolen from you. I respect and honor hard work -- that is why I am happy to pay taxes to guard you and everyone else against thieves.

Democracy is hard work, but it is worth it if we are willing to continue to work for it.



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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Just giving you the facts. I'm an election judge.
Our machines are district based and are NOT batch fed - they are fed one at a time. There are around 13 machines, each manned by two people for auditing. Two shifts during peak time. It may not take a minute each, but when the ballots are multiple pages, and two-sided, it can take a while. They don't always feed right the first time, so they have to feed them multiple times.

Last election, they didn't have ANY results until 9:00 p.m., and our races weren't finished until sometime Wednesday. And then we had recounts.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. The problems you mention seem to be related to the machines (e.g., feeding ballots)
Edited on Tue Nov-02-10 03:23 PM by Fly by night
At least some of those problems (and time constraints) would be eliminated by eliminating the machine in the middle. In addition, decentralizing the vote count by having it done at the precinct level and posted there before the paper ballots go anywhere would also speed up the process as counting ballots would be one of the jobs of the precinct election officials (or, again, high school Honor Society members prepped and primed for the task).

Thanks for your work as an election official. You truly live in a beautiful part of the world. I was honored to work for the Eastern Shoshone and Northern Arapaho tribes on the Wind River Indian Reservation in Wyoming for a number of years and believe that folks like you who live out there are blessed.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Remember, we have statewide early voting at vote centers.
The ballots don't go to the precinct. Over 2/3 have already voted and sent to the county level.

Yes the machines are old and outdated, but our county is . . . interesting. Largely Dem, but very conservaDem. Three country commissioners and I swear they're all crazy in their own special way. So I dunno - guess we just have to agree to disagree.

But yes, Colorado is beautiful and could be even more so if we just had a bit more progressive voice. Denver and Boulder are two little islands in a sea of stupidity. Sigh.

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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
47. I do love the way you think!
:hug:

I had to almost rip the nose off my face (as opposed to just holding the damn thing), but managed to vote today. :hi:
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. I will probably think of Andy on election day for the rest of my life...
A kind soul, his.

I'm glad I had the opportunity to give him a midnight tour of Annapolis.

-Hoot
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Me, too. LOL, he was a handful, that Andy Stephenson.
:)
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. Wow you gave him a midnight tour of Annapolis too?
:P

:hi:

-Hoot
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
35. Paper Ballots
In memory of Andy.

I voted on paper today with optical scanners. The counties that have e-voting machines are screwed up as usual.

Of course we still need to shine the spotlight on those central tabulators.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
37. I was thinking about Andy today

:kick:

K&R

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Snotcicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
45. Kick for Andy. I have not used PayPal since. nt
Edited on Tue Nov-02-10 03:42 PM by Snotcicles
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
46. Fortunately, I was able to mark a paper ballot which then got scanned
We didn't have that option in 2008 at my polling station.

When the guy asked me "paper or electronic", I just gave him a look like "seriously?". I didn't answer, but I didn't have to. He just laughed and handed me a ballot inside a manila folder.

When I turned to vote, I noticed 5 stations for paper voting and only 1 electronic machine. Looks like this was not a surprise for them.

:woohoo:
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
48. Andy was right
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
50. WHY TOUCH SCREEN VOTING MACHINES ARE NOT LIKE ATMS
ATM software is open, but voting software is proprietary

Banks insist that all code in ATMs be fully disclosed to them and they won't trust their money or their depositors’ money with anything less. Voting software by comparison is considered proprietary. Companies that make both ATMs and voting machines proudly boast of their open source software for ATMs in their advertising. This situation could conceivably be changed by demanding that voting software also be fully disclosed, but there are other reasons why open source code is not by itself sufficient to make voting machines like ATMs. For example, it would be necessary to match the code on all voting machines to verify its identity with the true open source master code immediately prior to each election. But even then, any diskette or other similar device could introduce a virus or other malware that deletes itself. Furthermore, human beings can not observe the vote counting even in open source environments.

In addition, there is the problem that open source code itself is not necessarily "knowable". One can think of the law as being open source "code", free of copyright and at least in theory available to all in free libraries. However, like the extensive areas of code in computer programs that often have unknown functions or utility, even a lawyer who spends his life studying the law doesn't understand how every bit of the "open source" law works, nor can we the people realistically understand even a fraction of exactly how the open source code for voting machines would work. Even with open source code, then, we would be required to accept election results on trust or faith, which is the opposite of checks and balances.

Were the code of the voting machine vendors suddenly opened up or disclosed, it would take a long time to understand it, we may in fact never understand it, and those who do understand will only be a handful of experts with a lot of time on their hands, probably paid by the government or a vendor and not loyal solely to the public.

Individual ATM transactions can be tracked, but individual secret ballots cannot be tracked

Every transaction in an ATM is completely tracked with redundant account numbers traceable to the account holder, and your transaction is photographed or videotaped for security purposes. In contrast, a secret ballot cannot possibly be associated with such an identifying number and still remain secret. The very secrecy of the ballot creates a virtually untraceable system that is wide open to both fraud and the cover-up of material irregularities. It is not feasible to provide a receipt in elections to prove a transaction because of concerns about using it to sell votes, though this concern might be addressed by making verification available only to the voter in secure locations like the elections offices.

To make ATM banking perfectly analogous to the process of voting, you'd have to have every account holder at a bank make a non-traceable (secret ballot) cash deposit on the same day (election day) by dropping this anonymous deposit (ballot) into a large bin (ballot box). Bank officers would then calculate the total amount of money deposited in secret with no public oversight, but not start counting until after the bank (polls) close. The account holders (the voting public) would then come back at the closing of the business day (election night) with the media in tow demanding instantly reliable bank balances and overall account results within minutes or hours of the closing of the bank (polls). Bankers (election officials) would insist along with some in the media that the convenience of speedy results was far more important than accuracy in one's bank account (election results).

The insane rush to count the bank deposits (ballots) within minutes or hours on election night would them be used as a primary argument for making the banking deposits invisible and unverifiable by converting them to electrons, so that they could be processed all the more quickly and conveniently. Hopefully it is obvious that in such elections we would be putting intense pressure on a very fragile and inherently unauditable system. In contrast, public and auditable systems can work only at deliberate, and visible, speed.

ATM errors typically have no consequence for users because they are correctable, but ballot tabulation errors have very serious consequences that are usually not correctable

With banks, you have at least 60 days after receiving your statement, if not much longer, to contest and challenge the transactions involving your account. With voting, there is no possibility at all of correcting your vote after you leave the polling place. In fact, voters are considered legally incompetent to contest their ballots with extrinsic evidence under stringent anti-challenge provisions. Election contest laws are subject to extremely short statutes of limitation such as ten days. At any rate, you couldn't locate your own specific ballot for purposes of challenging its tabulation, and some elections officials have preemptively cited academic research purporting to suggest that significant numbers of voters "don't accurately remember their own votes" after having voted, in order to cast doubt on members of the public who may wish to question the tabulation of their own votes. Thus, nothing is allowed to impeach or contest the rushed count, not even the voters themselves were they somehow able to show their own ballots counted incorrectly.

Broken touch screen voting machines have disenfranchised many, many people who have had to get back to work or school before a functioning one could be made available to them during limited voting hours. A broken ATM just means that you have to go to another bank branch or supermarket, at any hour of the day or night. In the case of voting, touch screen machines are expensive bottlenecks where you may be forced to stay in a long line at only one polling place. You usually cannot go elsewhere to cast your vote, though in some states a provisional ballot may be allowable.

In summary, you vote untraceably (assuming that you aren’t turned away unable to access a functioning machine, or by long lines), you're not allowed to challenge or change even your own vote, you're not trusted to remember it, and then the elections officials refuse to disclose their data (ballots) or their analysis methods (counting software) on the grounds of trade secrecy, only releasing their conclusions (election results).

Such a system has absolutely none of the safeguards built into ATMs, which have quadruple redundancy. If you take out $100, you can count the five crisp $20s, check the receipt, cross-reference it with your bank statement listing individual transactions tagged with unique numbers, and if necessary, request the photo of you making the transaction.

ATMs have extensive real world testing that vote counting systems can never have

Principles of elementary systems analysis dictate that any complex system, whether mechanical or electronic, is highly unlikely to ever be free of bugs. Such systems can, however, eventually be made robust and reliable by banging them against reality hard and often. ATMs are part of a complex system that has had most of the bugs worked out of it by being constantly tested in the real world, billions of times an hour, 24/7, 365 days a year. Even so, they still malfunction occasionally, though if you run into one that isn’t working it’s usually a minor hassle to find another one.

In contrast, voting is something we do a couple of times a year, and letting machines with complex hardware and software do it for us means that elections must inevitably always be a beta test. This is why you rarely hear of ATMs that don’t work because of heat or cold or humidity, but commonly hear of voting machine breakdowns for those reasons and many others. If we only drove our cars for a couple of hours once a year, they'd suck pretty badly too. Beta test mode is absolutely unacceptable for something as important as voting.

Moreover, even if billions were spent on ATMs, there is no conceivable way that we would all be able to use an ATM in the same 14 hour time period, even under completely optimal and bug-free conditions. Forcing voters to use electronic voting machines means forcing them to stand in long lines instead of the five minute service guarantees we are used to in stores.

The "promised land" of electronic voting promises only convenience for election officials, inherent invisibility of mistakes (which appeals to both vendors and election officials), and replicates the situation we now have with school systems whereby rich districts get great service and poor districts get poor service. The ultimate effect of electronic voting is therefore structural disenfracnhisement of the poor by the forced bottlenecks of expensive machines.

We can safely entrust others with tracking ATM transactions, but we can only trust ourselves to supervise vote tabulation

The current situation is this. We now have no basis for confidence in election results because the data and the method of its analysis are never disclosed—only conclusions (election results) are disclosed. Voters are considered legally incompetent to change or challenge their votes, or even to recall what those votes were. Voters are widely considered by elections officials to be the cause of machine malfunctions themselves, resulting in delayed responses to fix them. Furthermore, the poll workers are not supposed to observe the voters and therefore can't easily verify whether a given problem is a machine problem or a voter problem. (Would any self-respecting software engineers refuse to include an undo function in their word-processing program, and then blame users for not being smart enough to avoid mistakes 100% of the time? Most “user” error is really system design error—real world testing should result in errors being hard to make and easy to recover from.)

We need to fight for democracy here in our time, meaning that the government must serve the public, which is the ultimate source of political power, and not the other way around. Public "servants" should not seek their own convenience and insulation from accountability for mistakes, but should instead be rewarded for falling on their swords and reporting problems voluntarily and immediately.

We the People must insist on vote counting methods that are transparent and public, that have robust checks and balances, and that keep fully in mind the very unique features of elections that make them not analogous to much of anything else. Thomas Jefferson anticipated every generation would need a revolution in democratic values to remember the inalienable rights of We the People and assert them against government officials who (quite naturally and even understandably) believe that their full time specialist status entitles them to special rights, because that is the route to something other than democracy, something other than We the People being in charge.

For more information see
http://www.votersunite.org/
http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingSecurity.htm
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