Obama is handling this beautifully

[me b zola]

The latest statement from Obama regarding the idiocy of Joe Biden:

"I didn't take Senator Biden's comments personally, but obvioulsly they were historically inaccurate. African-American presidential candidates like Jesse Jackson, Shirley Chisholm, Carol Moseley Braun and Al Sharpton gave a voice to many important issues through their campaign and no one would call them inarticulate."


I fear that Biden's comments may have been a land mine set for Obama, but Obama handled it beautifully.

[Rosemary2205]

1. Link? Thanks.

not doubting, just wanting to repost and they will want a link.

Thanks again.

[Connie_Corleone]

2. I heard it on CNN.

Perfect response.

[LSparkle]

3. All the while working on VOTING RIGHTS legislation ...

Working to eliminate the dirty tricks that disenfranchised so many voters in 2000 and 2004. He's a "get things done" kind of guy, not a bloviator.

Prediction: Biden folds his tent within 6 months.

[Spiffarino]

33. Said much the same thing in another thread

I predict Biden will go down in flames fairly quickly. So will McCain and for pretty much the same reasons. Neither one can hold his tongue when it is critically necessary to do so.

[lvx35]

4. I wish they would stop refering to him as African American

He is, but just as much as he is WHITE. The guy is half and half...

[Connie_Corleone]

6. Obama said himself he identifies as African American.

[lvx35]

43. I guess it's fair, if I can identify as Native American

although I am blond and was raised far from a res...The truth is that I am european-native-american...A mutt, like Obama. But the real point is, I don't want to identify as ANYTHING. I don't think Obama should identify as anything, nor should he identified as anything but human. The moment we think its important to identify in a political setting is the moment when race becomes significant in politics, which it shouldn't be.

[me b zola]

8. When African Americans are discriminated against...

...do you think that they check to see if the person they are discriminating against have any white blood in them?

Do you think that they asked Mr. Byrd in Texas if he was perhaps half white before they drug him to his death behind their pick-up truck?

Let me help you with the answer. NO.

[MonkeyFunk]

11. Huh?

His father was African, his mother American. Sounds like the perfect descriptor for him.

[Katherine Brengle]

34. Great post --

Obama is literally and exactly African-American.

[lvx35]

42. Obama is a European African American

[marmar]

29. So are you going to tell him to stop referring to himself as African American?

I suspect he's the best arbiter of what ethnicity to identify himself as.

[Bluerthanblue]

5. now that was an articulate answer

from a man that appears to have alot of class.

:evilgrin:

[NovaNardis]

7. Biden cetainly had

a brief respite from reality. I am pleased with Obama's respone, though. It is with the quickness and maturity of a much more seasoned politican.

I don't think Biden said what he did, though, intentionally. Much of the time what he says is VERY un-PC, but if you step back and look at what he's saying, then yeah he makes sense a lot. Replace in his comments on Obama "clean" with "lacking skeletons in his closet" or "palatable" or something. It makes a lot of sense. I took his statement to mean he is the first viable black candidate that doesn't scare the majority of white people. And in that, I think he's right. Jesse Jackon, Al Sharpton? Scary to white folk. Carol Mosely Braun? Articulate, but not well-known enough.

I won't write Biden off for being un-PC, but he does need to cool it sometimes, because if he keeps it up he WILL have a maccaca moment. Not to say he is a racist, but there will be something he says that he can't write off as politically incorrect. And then, these un-PC skeletons will come out of the closet, so to speak, and he will be sunk.

[me b zola]

18. Of course we will never know if Biden's comments were meant to be a trap

...but politics are ugly, real ugly, and I can't discount that possiblity. Can you imagine if Obama didn't handle this with such class? If Obama just "aw-shucked" it away? Bam, there would go the African American vote.

I have wondered why Biden, as seasoned politician would throw his hat in the ring when the Hillary train is running full steam. It kind of reminds me of dirt track stock car racing in the mid-west. Sometimes a car would enter the race not to win, but rather to run interference for another race team. Is this what Biden is doing? I don't know, but I have to wonder.

[Infinite Hope]

9. While there's nothing racist about Biden's remarks, they were wrong because...

his comments attacking all the other candidates are a regressive means of campaigning.

Obama has handled a few situations like this so far this campaign season and he sure is gaining my respect in his handling of them. Very admirable.

[The Count]

15. Patronizing people of a different race = racism. Same as * who also called Obama

"articulate and attractive"

[Infinite Hope]

67. Bill Clinton gets the same comments. Is he being patronized?

Get a grip.

[M0rpheus]

68. Get a grip?

If they say the same things about Bill Clinton, it's assumed that that's how he's supposed to be.
But on the other hand, those same words are presented to me, as if it's surprising that I can hold a conversation.

When my Grandmother's friends say that, it's because they're proud of me.
In different circles, in my head, I hear "for a black man".
I've been there more than enough times for it to be very apparent to me, when I see it.
And some days I might just be over sensitive.

But I suppose, to "get a grip" I have to just toss my own experience out the window.

Don't hold your breath.

All this talk about race on DU lately has only reinforced my own thoughts on the matter.
That fact that many miss the subtleties and nuance even when it's spelled out is just sad.
If you don't get it, you just don't get it.
Just don't minimize it as invalid because that may not be your experience.




I really don't know why I get so frustrated by these threads.
:eyes:

[Infinite Hope]

69. "as if it's surprising that I can hold a conversation."

That's not how it was meant nor is that how it was taken even by those involved. Sometimes we seize on something that isn't there as a way of subconsciously reassuring ourselves of our convictions.

You can continue having a conversation with yourself. This issue is dead.

[uppityperson]

10. Very good, articulate answer.

Very nice and accurate and nicely done.

[The Count]

12. Ha!ha! Implied: No one would call them ugly or dirty either! Love it!

[monarch]

13. Anybody catch Tweety's version of the situation?

He reported the comments as being no big deal but that "apparently" Obama took offense. Not an exact quote, but that was the way he presented it. It could not have been accidental. Watch him when he repeats at 7pm. It's toward the end of the hour.

[Spiffarino]

30. Did Tweety offer any proof

...or did he pull it out of his ass, as usual?

[monarch]

65. No. That wasn't his intent.

His intent was to make it appear that Obama was the one to blow Biden's comment into a major issue. It seems to to have worked even on this board, where we have numerous posts criticizing Obama for his response to all of the media furor.

[Spiffarino]

70. Criticize Barack? For what?

Unbelievable. Obama couldn't have been more magnanimous in his response to Biden's patronizing commentary.

DU's a big community. I suppose it's going to happen.

[kiahzero]

14. I don't think of Sharpton or Jackson as particularly articulate

Is that more or less racist than thinking that they are articulate?

[BurtWorm]

16. What do you mean by "articulate?"

:popcorn:

[kiahzero]

17. By inarticulate, I mean poor orators. (n/t)

[Solon]

19. So, I'm assuming you never heard them speak before?

Sharpton's delivery at the Democratic Convention was considered a HIGH point, after all.

[kiahzero]

21. I have.

I haven't heard Moseley Braun or Chisholm speak before, though.

[Solon]

24. Braun is a passionate speaker, there is no doubt there...

But calling Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton inarticulate is just ludicrous. Few people in this country can be considered good word smiths, but those two are definitely superior in this department than most of the current crop of public speakers.

[eShirl]

22. Jackson a poor orator? Sharpton a poor orator?

Are we on the same planet?

[me b zola]

23. Wow, I am constantly impressed by both of them

I can't imagine anyone not losing their breath listening to either Rev Jackson or Rev Sharpton. I was fortunate enough to hear Rev Jackson speak in person in the mid-nineties. What a powerful orator!

African American preachers speak in a different candence than whites speak/orate. I find the cadence to be powerful...but I suppose to others it just sticks out as "not white".

So you have me wondering, is cultural bias the same as racism?

[Solon]

26. I don't know if its a cultural bias or not...

I'm a white guy who is impressed with both, they are head and shoulders above most of the current crop of public speakers. Unfortunately, most of my experience in this department is through the TV, I would love to actually see and meet them in person, but haven't had a chance yet. :(

I hesitate to say they are among some of the best in American history, but I guess that's something for historians to work out.

[jgraz]

28. Me too

I'm not always a fan of some of their behavior, but Sharpton's DNC speech gave me goosebumps. It was pretty much the only thing worth watching besides Obama.

[Spiffarino]

32. Gotta disagree

I think both are powerful orators. Sharpton's speech at the Democratic convention in 2004 is still one of the best I've ever heard. I don't find Jackson as persuasive, but even his critics will tell you he gives a great speech.

[kiahzero]

35. That's fine.

It's purely a personal preference. My question was, given that opinion, is it more racist for me to say "I find Al Sharpton to be inarticulate" than to say "I find Barack Obama to be articulate?" Am I simply not able to comment on the speaking ability of a black man without being racist?

[Spiffarino]

38. Of course. It's all about the context.

Biden's "sin" is that he didn't provide much context to go with his descriptions of Obama. If he'd used similar terms to describe white candidates or if he'd been more clear about what he meant by "clean" and "articulate" then there wouldn't be this much controversy in Democratic circles.

Of course, the Faux News goon squad would have played it up any way. :eyes:

Still, saying Obama is articulate has connotations. In the absence of context, it can imply that there is something about an articulate black person that is different from the norm. Is that what Biden meant...who knows? He still should know better than to say whatever he is thinking before he does any actual thinking.

[Guaranteed]

51. Sharpton I see as uniquely articulate.

During the debates he definitely stuck out as someone who used the language in a superior manner to the others.

[Kelly Rupert]

57. Sharpton and Jackson are quite articulate.

However, not in the same way. They have more of the preacher-style charisma, while Obama has Kennedy-style charisma.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

63. A Jesee Jackson speech changed my life

He was speaking during the 88 campaign, I happened to be outside the place where he was speaking but they had speakers set up to blast it into the streets (ain't that cool) and I was stopped dead in my tracks, listening to this incredibly articiulate, passionate and poetic man talk about how we are all one.

I signed up for his campaign the next day, after not caring about politics (or anything other than partying) for a good handful of years.

I will never forget that.

[Catherine Vincent]

20. Yes, he is.

He's not even going to touch the "clean" comment. Good on him! :)

[AspenRose]

25. Oh, but they weren't "mainstream candidates"

so goes the argument given to me by a DUer. I said basically the same thing Obama did and got snark in response.

[Spiffarino]

40. You and I must have been in the same thread

Not one of my better DU experiences :eyes:

[WI_DEM]

27. Perfect. That is one reason why he would be an excellent democratic candidate

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. Though Logically Inaccurate, I Agree It Was The Perfect Political Response.

To explain what I mean by logically inaccurate, I offer the following mathematically factual example:

Please remember to keep in mind that Biden used the word AND, not the word OR. Therefore, his statement of "first mainstream African-American” who was articulate, bright, clean and good-looking." is mathematically broken down into the following:

Obama = Mainstream + African American + Articulate + Bright + No Baggage + Good Looking.

I used 'No baggage' because I think it is more than highly likely what he meant. Only if past candidates equaled EVERY SINGLE ONE of those terms in the equation would Obama's statement then be logically accurate.

[me b zola]

37. Mainstream = sounds, dresses, and acts white

I use that definition because it is highly likely that that is what Biden meant.

Biden's view:

Rev Jackson & Rev Sharpton = speak/orate in the traditional cadence of African American preachers = scary to many white people = non-mainstream = non articulate

Shirley Chisholm = dressed/groomed Afro-Centric = scary to many white people = non-mainstream = not clean/not good looking


Obama was spot on...both logically and politically.

[AspenRose]

41. Yep, that's pretty much it.

In a nutshell.

Mainstream=non-threatening to white folk

[ClassWarrior]

39. I think they all fit all of the criteria. Don't you?

NGU.

[Bluerthanblue]

46. words do matter- if you'd been speaking

there would be no issue. But the fact is (logiclly and factually accurate here) Mr. Biden used the word clean.

clean.

not, 'with a squeeky clean history', not 'no skeletons in the closet'-

but simply

clean,

and then he ended with:

"and good looking"

He was talking about things that were obvious- his looks, his intelligence, his manner of speaking,- how exactly does his background history enter in? And how does Mr.Biden know this?

I've read slurs about the schools Obama attended, his father and stepfathers religious affiliation, and even his middle name (trying to make him appear as something sinister or threatening)

I don't believe Mr.Biden intended to offend Obama's ethnicity with his comment, (even more so, in light of his apology) but he did. And he acknowledged as much by issuing an apology. I respect both men for their mature behaviour in the aftermath.

peace,
blu

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

36. Kill 'em with kindness. A smart move.

[Harper_is_Bush]

44. what about "bright and clean and a nice-looking guy"????

Is Obama taking a bit of a shot at the other African Americans he mentioned?

[me b zola]

45. Obama struck just the right cord

Obama said just enough to politely point out the idiocy of Biden's words without going into much detail to kick up more dust. I thought it was perfect.

[Bluerthanblue]

48. me too. n/t

[Harper_is_Bush]

64. yeah yeah, but was he slammin'? n/t

[BuyingThyme]

47. I don't think there's any way for him to lose on this one.

[me b zola]

53. I disagree, Obama could have derailed his campaign on this

Had Obama responded by "sticking up" for Joe, saying something like, "I'm sure Joe didn't mean anything negative by his statement..." that could have caused Obama to lose the Black vote.

As of yet African American leaders have not yet said who they are going to back in the primaries. Clinton is counting on the Black vote because of Bill's relationship with the Black community and she is working to make that her own--without ever lifting a finger to assist the Black community.

Had Obama not chosen his words wisely and crucified Biden, Obama could have lost many white votes.


I've said it somewhere else, but I will repeat myself. I can't help but wonder why a seasoned politician like Biden would throw his hat in the ring when the Hillary train is running @ full steam. I tend to suspect that this wasn't a gaffe on the part of Biden as much as a political land mine--and Obama navigated it beautifully.

[BuyingThyme]

54. Do you really think black people are that stupid?

Really?

[me b zola]

58. I don't understand your bomb throwing at me

The African American community is growing weary of their votes being taken for granted, and like anyone else is searching for the candidate who best represents them. Both Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton have said that they are with holding their support for a primary candidate until they learn a little more from the candidates. It has also been reported that HRC had contacted both leaders, in an attempt to gain their endorsement, asking them to not automatically back Obama, which hasn't come yet.

How you take that analysis and turn it into "Do you really think black people are that stupid?" I don't understand, but I think you're out of line. Really.

[Karenina]

66. Don't take it personally, mbz.

Although I cannot speak for Buying Thyme, you may have drawn incoming fire for the tone that suggests that the "black vote" is a monolith, that Barack would even consider responding in the way you hypothesized and that blacks haven't seen these tactics over and over and over. We're a bit raw these days, what with Steve Cohen and now THIS! I popped of at "The Donald" in another thread, totally half-cocked. Sometimes it's VERY STRESSFUL being a poster of colour on this board. It can be quite toxic. THAT'S why there are so few of us.

Don't worry. No harm, no foul. :loveya:

[redwitch]

49. He is a very gracious person

and articulate too! :-) Mr. Biden needs his head examined.

[BlooInBloo]

50. It's because he's so articulate...

... and clean...

... and non-sexually-threatening to white women...

... I bet he's an excellent athlete (but not a quarterback)...

... And a wonderful dancer....

What a wonderful negro that Obama is....


:rofl: It IS funny though - just when you think that Biden couldn't put himself any FURTHER from the Presidency... He opens his mouth again. :rofl:

[aaronbees]

52. Wisely said!

Perceptive, accurate response. And nice to see the kudos for Jackson, Chisholm, Mosely Braun and Sharpton. :woohoo:

[and-justice-for-all]

55. I think Obama knows better....

he has more class then politics are accustomed too. When Rethugs have no material to work off of or manipulate they sink to the bottom of the bottom to pull up the dumbest shit they can twist. Which just makes the thug look worse then they already do.

the Repuke party has come to its end with Chancellor *, Once the Dem Pres is on the Hill in 08 its all up hill from there. Chancellor has dug that party a grave and laid them to rest in it.

[ecstatic]

56. I agree with you on the "land mine" aspect

Any serious discussion of racism by Obama will diminish his "rock star" status, because many Americans can't stand it when a black person brings up racism. "Get over it," is the common response.

[treestar]

60. It can be overdone

Taking offense at compliments is sort of where I draw the line.

You don't know what you can say and what you can't. So that diminishes the chances for blacks right there. White people, especially liberals and democrats, mostly don't like being called racist, but they really hated when they didn't intend anything mean.

[me b zola]

61. Exactly...but yet ironically, I must have stepped on a land mine myself..lol

Look up a couple few posts. :rofl:

[Hippo_Tron]

59. What Biden meant to say was the first black candidate that white people take seriously

Oh wait, that sounds even worse in a soundbite.

[treestar]

62. I knew he would not play the victim.

Great response.