Sadly, we're seeing the fruits of triangulation here

[MannyGoldstein]

Triangulation as a strategy does two things:

1. It loses elections
2. It pushes the other side further to the fringe

So, here we are after 18 years of raging "Democratic" triangulation. I hope the third way is enjoying their rewards.

[polichick]

1. I can guarandamntee that third way Dems STILL don't have a clue. nt

[stillwaiting]

48. I'm afraid they have a clue and are quite pleased with the results.

The further rightward shifting of the Democratic Party.

They're hollering about it already...

[stray cat]

2. Grayson is an aggressive liberal he lost

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Nobody had their back

We should have had angry mobs behind them, rather than letting them hang out their alone.

[ThomCat]

16. The party refused to back him.

:(

Damn It. The party should have embraced him. People like him could have re-energized the party. He has what the base wants! He supports the base, and he tells the truth.

But that means that both parties pull out the stops to oppose him. :(

[Lorien]

28. Bingo. Even Jon Stewart was taking swipes at him prior to the election

Grayson shook up the status quo. They didn't like it.

[readmoreoften]

30. I can't stand Jon Stewart anymore. He needs to STFU and go back to making jokes.

And I grew up with the guy.

[TBF]

52. He's a millionaire now - and it shows. nt

[readmoreoften]

27. Yes, because people like you pushed against him as if he were the enemy.

You're as dangerous to progressive politics as the Republicans are. Maybe more.

[Recursion]

40. What's dangerous is a freshman in a fairly conservative district spending more time grandstanding...

...and introducing showboat bills that go nowhere. (Did you see his "Medicare For All" bill? It was ****ing embarrassing: no mention at all of how to fund it, how to determine premiums, etc.)

Look, obviously I respect the guy's views, and he's right about a lot of things, but being right isn't enough, particularly when a lot of your district is wrong.

[jeff47]

50. To quote Digby:

His neighboring first term Democratic congresswoman Suzanne Kosmas, in a very similar district, took the opposite approach to Grayson. She ran as hard to the right as she could get away with, never had a controversial thought much less uttered one, was rewarded with big money and support from the DCCC --- and she lost too. This race was bigger than both of them. Florida is turning hard right.

[Recursion]

51. I'm one of the triangulators people here hate, but I agree

And going forward, I'm not sure the old "left/right" distinction is the issue. More on this when GD: Recriminations gets started.

[de novo]

3. You are right. Welcoming conservatives is a temporary win only.

[grasswire]

4. sigh

And yet they say that Grayson is a test case. He unapologetically ran as a lefty, and he is getting trounced. He did not ever triangulate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. He was on the top ten targets of the GOP

there was a LOT of outside money in that race... and not for Alan

[bullwinkle428]

13. Thank Citizens United for the defeat of Grayson.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. Citizen's United was caused by allowing insane people on the Supreme Court

in the name of bipartisanship.

[Crunchy Frog]

43. Yes. Thank you Joe Biden.

[Dappleganger]

Koch Brothers pulled the trigger...

they funded the attacks.

[Duer 157099]

5. I agree, but unfortunately, most won't.

They'll see it as a need for even *more* compromise! Wacky wacky world we are living in.

[Xipe Totec]

7. If the outcome had been different from any other mid-term election, I would agree

But that is not the case.

To claim triangulation as the cause, you would have to posit that every mid-term election outcome has been the result of triangulation, and that neither party has learned from this since time immemorial.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. DLC has lost every election cycle it ran

In all previous six election cycles run by the DLC, we either lost Congress or maintained a minority.

And here we are at number seven, getting pummeled.

[Xipe Totec]

15. The same thing happened to the repugs, so where is the difference?

You have to watch out for confirmation bias.

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Can you elaborate?

Thanks.

[Xipe Totec]

49. Wiki

Midterm elections are sometimes regarded as a referendum on the sitting president's and/or incumbent party's performance. They usually don't turn out well for the party of the president; over the past 17 midterm elections, the president's party has lost an average 28 seats in the House, and an average 4 seats in the Senate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_midterm_election

[devereaux]

8. That's why so many people miss Howard Dean

50-state strategy was the best approach the Democratic party had

[ThomCat]

21. That's the truth. I can't, for the life of me, figure out why the party isn't

re-instating it.

[Recursion]

44. Then again Howard Dean is a pretty moderate Democrat

He's definitely not on the "far left". He was a great party leader, though; maybe we can get him back.

[Overseas]

45. I agree. //nt

[BootinUp]

9. UnRec for Oversimplified argument for politics.

[PBass]

11. I don't get it...

Half the losses in the house are Blue Dogs. The House Democrats as a whole are now more liberal. How did Blue Dogs push the right wing to the fringe?

I guess this election is going to be a way for everyone to draw whatever conclusions they personally prefer... right wingers will say that it's a repudiation of Obama, liberals will say it means Obama wasn't liberal enough, moderates will say that there needs to be more 'cooperation' (!!!!)

That's fine, but your post reads like a non-sequiter or an incomplete thought.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. By moving right, Democrats force Republicans further right

in order to differentiate themselves.

Look at where we are now, vs. 1992. Way, way, way to the right. Crazy, nutty, insane right.

[Raine]

34. EXACTLY! nt

[NNN0LHI]

18. I think you may be on to something

:thumbsup:

[Azathoth]

20. Yup, all that triangulation was really a mistake on Russ Feingold's part

Damn DLCer...

[MannyGoldstein]

22. Hung out to dry by the 'pack'

Voices crying in the wind never fare well.

[Dinger]

23. Where's Your Fucking Sarcasm Smiley?

Just fucking asking.

[Azathoth]

26. Happy?

:sarcasm:

[readmoreoften]

33. No, you DLC fucks played politics and screwed him over.

[Azathoth]

38. Yeah, when centrists lose, it's cause they're "triangulators". When progressives lose,

it's cause they got "fucked over" by the "triangulators". :crazy:

Denial...river in Egypt...and so forth.

[Recursion]

41. You need to make up your mind

Either the DLC (which, by the way, is only three people, you may mean the "New Democrat Network") just cares about electing Democrats to the detriment of principles, or they are sabatoging progressives in key races. Both can't be true.

[gulliver]

24. Say what you wish had happened, then, so...

...people can speculate about what its fruits would have been. If there were a way to get everything you want and win more more elections, you should share it. I'm skeptical to say the least.

[MannyGoldstein]

31. Democrats who spend every moment working for working Americans

Who are proud and unflinching in their mission.

With a side order of the 50-state strategy.

[readmoreoften]

25. +1,000,000. I blame the Democratic conservatives and the DLC for this.

It was Obama's leftist sentiment that got him elected. And its the right-wing turn of the party that's ruining it.

[Lorien]

29. +1,0000. nt

[Individualist]

32. ++

[leftstreet]

46. +1

Nixon would have been too liberal for the DLC

[obxhead]

55. Well said. nt

[mmonk]

35. I agree. When,

both parties blame liberals for results the liberals didn't create, the public buys it temporarily and the election always ends up in Republican victories. Progressives and progressive ideals get set back even further in the US. This is especially true with the messaging by the corporate media of today.

[Recursion]

36. Manchin won. Grayson lost.

Triangulation is irritating, but it does get votes.

I'm going to wait for GD: Recriminations to start up to finish this thought, so flame away.

[MannyGoldstein]

37. Actual Democrats were shunned by the DLC establishment

United we stand, divided we...

[Petrus Romanus]

39. Which is why solid Dems are losing their seats, and triangulating fuckwads are hanging on.

Makes sense to me.

[Crunchy Frog]

42. Yes. Unfortunately it's us voters who reap the real "rewards".

:puke:

[BrklynLiberal]

47. This is almost as bad as Nov 2004..

[scheming daemons]

53. Your theory fails to explain Russ Feingold and Alan Grayson

They didn't triangulate.

They still lost.


Centrist Dems are holding their own.. much better than "true progressives".



Your theory doesn't match with reality.

[MannyGoldstein]

54. They were left swinging in the wind

They were outspent by several hundred percent thanks to Citizen's United, and shunned by the Party establishment.

United we stand, divided they fell.