We could have had a public option and lost big tonight too.

[RagAss]

Instead we have a 1/2 assed HC bill and got the shit kicked out of us anyway.

[somone]

1. My sentiment, exactly

[toddwv]

40. Yep. Looks like the Dems that voted against the HCR are losing big...

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/127225-qnoq-vote-on-health-reform-not-helping-democrats

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. This is the toughest thing. The really, really toughest thing.

:(

[EmeraldCityGrl]

3. K&R

[d_b]

4. lol k&r

[de novo]

5. We wouldn't have lost big had we gotten public option.

Real results and effectiveness get support.

[Ninten12]

16. You would have still had the teabaggers...

Because they cannot stand for others getting the same benefits and entitlements that they have enjoyed all of their days. That is what this is all about.

The teabaggers (old white folks), did not want the bi-racial guy in the White House anyway. It's like someone said... Their world view has been a complete failure. They see that their children are divorced and now re-married to some "colored" and their grandchildren are gay. Geesh!

The people who are not of their generation however do not have the spine and gusto of the French, Greeks or other Europeans when it comes to hellraising! Until that fire is lit, you can expect more from the wing nuts. But I'll make it clear, hell no I won't go (to the cotton field for kkkorporate massah')!

[RagAss]

21. True

[sadbear]

18. I agree

The loss would have been more palatable if not for all the corporate giveaways.

[leftstreet]

6. Coulda had a WPA jobs program and lost, too

K&R

[InfernalJustice]

7. Amen to that!

[mike_c]

8. agreed 100 percent....

[librechik]

9. don't tip me in that direction. I was just getting stable. More whiskey.

[Ninten12]

10. If it helps others,

then it must be socialism (per the wing nuts). Like I said, I'll take that Norwegian socialism any freakin' day. As for the health care bill, Barack realized after it was all over that it was quite the mistake to have Rahm Emanual "take care of it".

That was a complete disaster! The two-faced dipstick should have been fired long ago. Word is that he was fired and did not leave of his own accord.

[doc03]

From a poll I saw on health care twice as many oposed the

HCR Bill because it didn't go far enough rather than it went to far.

[HuckleB]

11. True.

[Poboy]

12. recommend.

[Naturyl]

13. Yep, that's how appeasement works.

They take what you give them and then they take the rest.

[BlueIris]

14. Again, Dems will rue the day. nt

[jimlup]

15. And we could have had a more sinificant stimulus and maybe ...

Just maybe held on to more of our '08 gains.

But yeah, I agree completely!

[Tatiana]

17. That probably would have made this a bit more tolerable. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

19. +100

[2Design]

20. if they had done the public option we could have won - they screwed us

[ibegurpard]

22. agreed

[still_one]

23. just curious, how would it have passed? lincoln would NOT have voted for it, bayh would NOT have

voted for it, both nelson's would not have voted for it, I could go on, but a plan with a public option would NOT have passed

However, if your point is that we should have fought for it even though it could not have won, instead of a half assed bill, then I agree that is a valid argument, that is, fight on principle, not to necessarily win

[mvd]

27. Yes - and if you wield the power of the Presidency, the..

majority of Dems who would have voted for it, and the idea's popularity, I think you could have worn them down. After all, Kucinich reluctantly voted for the law.

[still_one]

36. I don't agree that those people I named could have been worn down, but I do believe that trying to

pass a REAL reform bill, would have demonstrated to the people who is really looking out for their interests

The way it was done, it was totally confused and chaotic

[mvd]

37. And it's possible that a better process could have influenced them

We won't know since we didn't try.

[still_one]

38. That is true /nt

[northzax]

58. you don't need a majority of the Dems

you needed ALL of them, plus two republicans.

[eridani]

43. So Obama could pay a visit to Kucinich and twist his arm, but

--that couldn't ahve worked on Lincoln and Nelson?

[andym]

46. Actually the problem was Lieberman who refused to end a promised GOP filibuster

on HCR if there was a public option. Reid was actually pushing for it.

[laughingliberal]

48. Same way we passed the fix between the House and Senate bill-budget reconciliation. nt

[uponit7771]

49. Reid changes filibuster rules and reconciliation.

[YOY]

61. Yeah...he might have had to lead the party. That could have spelled trouble.

n.t.

[Bluebear]

69. +

[Toucano]

24. False.

Lincoln, Nelson (NE), Landrieu et al would have never voted for a public option and the whole thing would have died in the senate.

The story you're concocting is a fairy tale and it's dangerous to make political decisions based on fairy tales.

Please stop selling this.

[BlueCheese]

29. But we didn't even try.

With a hard sell to the American public, maybe we could have pushed those recalcitrants into supporting the bill. But instead we sold the public off at the very beginning and never made a real case for it.

And we could have tried reconciliation, which we ended up doing anyway. 50 votes + Biden should have been enough.

[Toucano]

33. I agree that the whole thing could have been handled differently.

And sure, we could have set sights higher in the beginning and compromised for less.

But that's not what the OP says. It says we could have had the public option.

There is absolutely no evidence in support of that statement and plenty of evidence to the contrary.

[mmonk]

25. That's what many of us were warning about.

[BlueCheese]

26. Right.

And now what? The GOP and its crazy right-wing is back in charge of the House.

The Dems are still more powerful than the GOP--we have the White House and the Senate. But for what purpose? Does the administration know what it wants to fight for? What exactly do they want to accomplish in the next two years? It's like we're in a battle with the better army on our side, but our generals don't realize the fighting has started.

It's very frustrating. Right now the economy pretty much has to recover on its own, because the federal government won't be able to do much to help it.

[quakerboy]

28. We could have had a public option and held our own tonight

instead we half assed it, and got the shit kicked out of us.

just sayin

[northernlights]

30. that AND a real economic stimulus

you know, the $1.2T stimulus most economists recommended, instead of the $800B half in tax cuts his friends preferred.

[HughMoran]

31. What a revisionist steaming pile of garbage

:eyes:

Worst post of the night.

[ibegurpard]

41. nah i'd say this one is

[Jamastiene]

32. K&R

We can kiss the repel of DADT goodbye now too. We could have had that too, and still lost.

[JVS]

34. I'm glad we didn't offend the voters by being overly partisan like the republican obstructionists.

It really paid off
:sarcasm:

[RagAss]

35. LOL

[Kurovski]

64. It always does, that's why we keep doing it.

:sarcasm:

[Dappleganger]

39. Thank you.

[Hawkowl]

42. That was my argument all along

If you are going to get fucking crucified for it no matter what you do, then do it right. Well at least Obama will have a good reason not to accomplish anything now. He really has no choice.

[Leopolds Ghost]

44. The reason people hate the HCR bill is it goes a long way...

In the WRONG direction. According to Hill insiders, the (private insurance managed) public option was intended to pass as a fig leaf for a bill essentially requiring all Americans to purchase insurance from a private corporation -- the same corporations that just got done thieving the American public -- and insurance has been lobbying both houses of Congress for this version of HCR for over a decade -- Gingrich was a big fan IIRC.

The HCR bill was designed to kill universal health care and enslave us to big insurance firms for the next 200 years. Then they decided they didn't even need the (privately managed) public option for people who don't want to pay a fine and didn't get any Wall St bailout money to pay for the newly inflated mandatory private insurance premiums, so they paraded the bill around naked and insisted on passing a pig in a poke.

They deliberately killed the progressive agenda to rob the Treasury and give the money to the corporations most favorable to Democrats before the well runs dry. Both the Dems and Reps know Peak Oil and critical war debt / upper-class subsidy debt is coming soon that will "require" them to shred the rest of the safety net and the rush will be on to empty the coffers so the urban upper middle class (Dems) and rich (Reps) can feather their nest before second-world status sets in.

[court jester]

62. If I could only...

rec your reply

I won't be allowing my health records into the free for all

and I won't be told to pad the wallets of big insurance

everyone can fuck right off about that

[Codeine]

45. The Senate would not have passed it, regardless.

It didn't have the votes. All the revisionism in the world won't change that.

[Hannah Bell]

47. but then they would have had to explain why they wouldn't pass what the people wanted to the voters.

instead, they get to run against a "neither hot or cold" health care bill that most people don't understand. coup for their team.

[Raine]

50. EXACTLY ... makes me mad because we would've

at least had something worthwhile and lost with principles intact. :mad:

[The Uncola]

51. The real question is:

Did these clowns LEARN the right lesson from last night? Or will this drive the spineless, corporate buttkissing twerps even further from we who actually ARE Democrats.

[RickFromMN]

56. President Obama didn't advocate a single payer, national health system

Edwards and Clinton, during the Primary debate, in 2008,
both said they'd support a single payer, national health system, or am I mistaken?

Didn't they challenge Obama to stand for a single payer, national health system, and he refused?

Why did he refuse? Was he making a political calculation? Was he expressing what he believed?

Should I be surprised he didn't fight for a single payer, national health system?

I was surprised. I thought he was a Progressive Democrat. I hoped he was a Progressive Democrat.

I realize, now, I shouldn't have been surprised.

What will the wimp, I mean President Obama, do over the next two years?
Will he learn to fight? Will he learn to use the bully pulpit to bully the bullies, I meant the Republicans?
Will he learn to use the veto pen. Will he show some backbone? Does he have a spine?

Is it possible President Obama is doing exactly what he wishes to do?
Is it possible he is happy with the way health care turned out?

I like to think not. Call me foolish.

Let us hope President Obama steps aside so a Democratic candidate can run who has some backbone.
I wish Hillary would run. She had as good a chance getting elected in 2008 as President Obama.
I'd vote for her now. I wish I had voted for her back in 2008 instead of voting for President Obama.

[JCMach1]

52. Not to mention meaningful financial reform

or ending DADT

[Catherina]

53. Rec'd n/t

[glitch]

54. Public option would have been more likely to bring out the dispirited, so also could have won

even against the tsunami of corporate money and propaganda.

[Faryn Balyncd]

55. Instead we passed a Republican bill and got SADDLED WITH THE BLAME !!

[EFerrari]

59. Yep. All the pain and little if any gain.

Geezus.

[truedelphi]

57. But this way, Obama/Rahm Presidency fulfilled its mission on account

of those it answers to. Big Pharma and Big Insurance got just what they paid for, while we who only gave our sweat equity before the 2008 election received broken promises and insulting admonishments.

Well, we never got that pony, but hey, Rahm just might rethink that thing of having Blue Dems in place of Real Dems... (Rahm is getting a real earful everywhere he goes in Chicago, as well.)

[jpljr77]

60. Yep. Same for the massive tax cuts package in the stimulus...it was not needed and did not help 11/2

[libodem]

63. Right-on

Yes, we could have.

[LittleBlue]

65. Perfectly said. Rec

[donheld]

66. We could have had a real stimulus package and lost big tonight too.

[GeorgeGist]

67. When a Democrat President ...

chases Republicans on his honeymoon, it's no surprise that he got phucked in the ass.

[lonestarnot]

68. K & R!