To anyone pointing out that Grayson and Feingold lost

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

To anyone on the inter-tubes pointing out that Grayson and Feingold lost to make the point that liberal policies are not the political answer...

The Blue Dog Caucus lost HALF it's members.

"Pragmatic" Democrats were defeated more decisively than any idealogical caucus has been since for-ever. They were wiped out. Demolished. The utter and complete political repudiation of an idealogical stance.

That is, if one wants to talk about the ideology of candidates who lost as proving something...

...but that would be silly.

Thank you for your attention.

[TBF]

1. At least there's a silver lining. nt

[DevonRex]

2. That is an insult. Pragmatism and blue dogism are NOT the same.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

9. They are both pathetic excuses

for "democrats" who vote as republicans.

[aquart]

11. That's why "pragmatic" was in quotes.

It was their way of phrasing "turncoat." Or is that too cruel a definition?

[Kalun D]

29. you beat me to it

[Kalun D]

26. I think the OP means

"pragmatic" not pragmatic

in other words, CORPORATE FACSIST

[NewYorkerfromMass]

48. Whatever you want to call it

the House- both chambers in fact, will be more polarized than ever now. I think the result is even less will get done. Instead of coming up with cute names for the new cast of characters we should figure out how this will effect legislation and what we can accomplish.

[Kalun D]

53. GRIDLOCK

It's what's for dinner

the corporations want it that way

[Smashcut]

73. Yes they are, in effect

It's only the so-called "pragmatists" who don't want to admit they're quasi-conservatives, so they've rebranded themselves.

[Catherina]

3. Rec'd n/t

[glinda]

4. So their voting in the right was a success?

[NJmaverick]

5. so a 50% defeat is worse than a 100% defeat?

:shrug:

[DarthDem]

16. Huh?

Progressives didn't lose 100% of their membership in Congress. They lost two visible members. Many tens of others won while the Blue Pooches were getting decimated.

[NJmaverick]

23. It would be a mistake to consider those in safe Democratic districts

as any Dem would win those

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

36. Really you think it's hilarious that the Dems lost?

:puke:

[leeroysphitz]

43. You're taking this WAY to seriously. Lighten up.

inb4 stern lecture about how this is "serious business".

[NJmaverick]

46. Sorry if you don't approve of my anger and disappointment over the Dem's defeat

:eyes:

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJmaverick]

58. I'm sure the GOP that replaced them will look out for the working person

:eyes:

[Kalun D]

71. What's the Diff?

I don't think there's any diff between a corporate DINO and a repug.

They are both wholly owned by the exact same corporations.

that's a really low bar you've set to say they are better than repugs.

[YOY]

6. AMEN!!!

n/t

[BootinUp]

7. you are feeling sleepy.... sleepy...... when I count to 3

you will adopt the appropriate groupthink!

:thumbsdown:

[kenny blankenship]

8. "Pragmatism" just doesn't work.

They can call it "incremental" all they want, underneath it's the same old excremental.

[HughMoran]

Except all of the arguments to date are based on faulty information

More blue dogs lost because there were more of them and they were in predominantly red areas where one would not expect a Democrat to win anyway.

Same applies for progressive who tend to be in liberal areas where one would expect a Democrat to win.

Sadly, Feingold, Grayson and Kuster were all in areas liberal enough to elect them, yet they lost.

There were blue dogs in conservative areas that lost as well - they should have had a chance there as well.

Generally the Democrat is a liberal/conservative as they need to be to win in a particular district/state. Anybody who tries to make broad-brush assessments across the entire country is doing so from a place of willful ignorance and is wearing a massive set of blinders and simply rooting for their own particular constituency on the "left".

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

42. I agree with all of that

[HughMoran]

54. Thank you

I don't always agree with you, but I've come to realize that you're a thoughtful and intelligent DUer who posts using logical arguments (usually, but not always).

[kenny blankenship]

57. Sorry, Progressive Caucus members outnumbered your Blew Dogs

(83 to 54)
Even more so now!

[HughMoran]

59. That really misses the point

Bias is not something I can argue with however, so enjoy.

[mzmolly]

69. Well

said.

[Ozymanithrax]

10. The Economy defined the election, not the color of the dog.

What it did show was that those two bastions of Progressivism could not stand against a frightened angry electorate.

[mzmolly]

70. Exactly. "It's the economy stupid."

eom

[Vincardog]

12. K & R The Blue Dog Caucus lost HALF it's members. The "New Dems" has a sad

[TexasObserver]

13. recommend

[seabeyond]

14. i am NOT arguing liberal agenda not wanted. arguing others factors caused this election failure

there are strong reasons, logical, factual reasons why dems lost and pointing at obama and lack of progressive law is not it.

if that were so, they would have kept the progressives.

[KittyWampus]

15. See, you can rationalize anything to try and make a point. Why not accept reality?

[NJmaverick]

19. The reality is ideological purity didn't protect Feingold and Grayson

that's an important lesson to learn

[jannyk]

17. Kick & Rec!

[sinkingfeeling]

18. And the Democrats lost 28% of their seats in Congress! Woo-woo!

[quinnox]

20. Let's see, *counts two on the progressive side, against

20 something blue dogs who lost.* Yea, hard to argue with those numbers.

[KittyWampus]

33. Now count how many of those blue dogs were newer members and in Republican leaning districts

[elleng]

21. and its all because of the $ and lies. Simple.

REALLY no need for name-calling here, as they'll take advantage of it, if we do it.

Lets watch repugs try to govern, with their oldies and baddies vs. their newies and baggies, and hope to take advantage of THEIR splits, down the road.

[emulatorloo]

39. Thank you n/t

[Xipe Totec]

22. It was offered as a counterexample

Merely to show that just being more progressive offered no safe haven either.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

31. I read it several places. Not meant to call out any particular member

It seemed a developing meme, not just what some individual said

[Xipe Totec]

72. I didn't take it personally; I just thought I should explain my motivation

:hi:

[ClarkUSA]

24. So what? Generally, incumbents who distanced themselves from President Obama lost.

Those who didn't such as Reid and Boxer did not. There's a lesson in this for 2012.

[ecstatic]

66. Good point. nt

[KittyWampus]

25. And to counter the stupidity on this thread- suggesting that solidly liberal Democrats would win the

seats that were lost is LAUGHABLE.

Maybe I should make my font bigger to make the point that- many of the members who lost yesterday were NEW MEMBERS IN REPUBLICAN LEANING DISTRICTS.

[HughMoran]

27. Can you post the results as a percentage for progressives as well?

..for the sake of unbiased reporting...

[KittyWampus]

32. And the percentage of Democrats losing who were newer members in Repubican strongholds or swing

districts.

[BrklynLiberal]

28. Proves that being a REAL Dem is better than being a DINO.

Too bad the administration as a whole did not believe that.

[AllyCat]

30. That makes my day a smidgeon brighter.

If we can put an end to them, maybe things will improve for actual Democrats

[frazzled]

35. There is no single narrative explanation: each race was different

and each Congressional district (or for the Senate, state) was different.

Anyone here or on television trying to make a sweeping generalization is probably wrong. Being liberal/progressive didn't help in a region experiencing economic turmoil, and being centrist didn't help in conservative districts. Sometimes, the candidates just weren't "all that," and sometimes the electorate was just batshit crazy. There are a thousand stories in the big city.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

37. exactly

[Fla_Democrat]

38. How were they defeated?

Did their opponents run ads claiming that they were to the right, just not far enough to the right? Did they run ads claiming that instead of voting for the republican lite (blue dog), voters should vote for the real deal? Were they replaced by more hard core Progressives?

I saw the ads in FL2, I watched the primary, and the election. I know how Boyd was painted.. but, what about the rest of the blu dogs who got the rolled up newspaper across the nose? Anyone have some information about them..... :shrug:







:smoke:

[KossackRealityCheck]

40. You're not learning the political lesson by ignoring...

the fact that bluedogs lost to candidates TO THE RIGHT OF THEM. The progressive candidates like Feingold and Grayson also lost to candidates TO THE RIGHT OF THEM.

Both examples prove THE SAME POINT. You don't have a point. The country is not the left blogosphere.

Get it?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

45. Are you talking to me? Read with more nuance. Thanks

[Freddie Stubbs]

41. That's not surprising, considering that they represented Republican districts

[KingOfLostSouls]

52. seems like you represent republicans pretty good also.

[quinnox]

60. lol, snap! n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

63. If that were the case, they probably would have been reelected

[kctim]

44. You're point would be valid

IF all of them in those groups had NOT lost to candidates to the RIGHT of the 'Blue Dogs.'

Blue Dogs lost because they got lumped in with ideology, as Skelton did, or because they went against their voters wishes and actually supported that ideology, as Lincoln ended up doing.

[leeroysphitz]

47. Kick for great justice.

[cottonseed]

49. Your loss is worse than my loss. Great thinking there idiot.

[whatchamacallit]

50. The Blue Dogs blew, good riddance! n/t

[KingOfLostSouls]

51. the blue dog bitches are crying

because we didn't give rand paul a hand job to maybe save us from his wrath.

[Kalun D]

62. Right ON

Given the choice of a Republican or a blue dog corp-a-dem that acts like a Republican

the voter will choose the Republican every time.

[JNelson6563]

56. It proves no one answer fits all.

To those declaring if only all Dems had been "proper" Dems, Grayson and Feingold disprove that. The reasons differ across the country and are as varied as our population.

Julie

[riderinthestorm]

61. I would point out that Grayson and Feingold were hung out to dry by the Obama Admin

who marginalized them and the "left's" agenda. When your own President can't support your own party's positions, it was going to be a long haul to winning.

Complicating that is the fact that both of these men live in Red states. That makes winning even more miraculous - especially in this cycle. The Teabaggers went after Grayson ferociously - he was probably doomed before he even got started. The nature of the country's "mood" against incumbents also worked against Feingold.

I don't believe it was any one thing, and has been stated above, there are many factors with each race having it's individual kinks but if there were anything ideological about these two losses, I would stipulate that it came from above - from this Admin that basically said "screw you" to these two guys in the first place.

[dogday]

64. When one door closes, another one opens. I have a feeling that

big things await both of these brave men. I will support them in anything they wish to do...

[ecstatic]

65. I think both sides have missed the point

It's not because they were too liberal or too blue dog, it's because the tea party idiots are ignorant POSs who thought the government was interfering with healthcare and they hate Obama. The people who were out of work etc., but still had common sense voted DEM.

[Ted_White]

67. Pic related

[mzmolly]

68. I pointed it out because getting elected is not as simple as being more liberal

or not. Democrats, lost big last night PERIOD. They lost because the Republican strategy to obstruct, proved effective.

[Naturyl]

74. K&R for reality (n/t)

[mmonk]

75. Recommended.

[Greyhound]

76. K&R for another "nobody could've predicted" excuse.

[femrap]

77. Thanks for this info....nt

[tomp]

78. you mean they were defeated by republicans/teabaggers?

that's not really defeat, that's the side they were on anyway. they were simply replaced by more overt representatives of the same system.

if they were defeated in primaries by more progressive democrats who then won election over republicans/teabaggers...now that would be different.