I hate being this ruthless...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

...but there are limits.

Let the Republicans destroy the country for a couple of years. Stop defending them from themselves.

It is always a "mad bomber" games theory scenario. The Republicans are willing to wreck everything and we have to step up to moderate their insanity and then we get blamed.

Fuck... that.

Let them wreck the country (further) and have only one message:

Look, the Republicans are wrecking the country.

I hate saying something like this because there is always a human cost. But on the other hand, there is always a human cost... either way.

The drip, drip, drip of us enabling these psychos is not working well for the long range propects of human beings in America.

Time for an intervention. A little tough love.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. ITA

This used to be a fun house. But now it's full of evil clowns. It's time to start the count down. I'm gonna burn it down, down, down . . . - Pink.

Look up. That says it all. The Teapublican Party is Wrecking the Country

[LaurenG]

2. No

They did that for EIGHT years and then turned around and blamed us anyway, so no, just no.

[NJmaverick]

7. Nailed it perfectly

[Kurovski]

11. Just gonna say...eight years already.

It would be better to work around Citiizen's United ruling, reform elections once and for all

Make them publically funded, everyone given same anount of air time, electionering limited to six, eight weeks. What the fuck ever.

But since People like money more than anything else that exists on earth,it would be tough.

[Bryn]

31. True! People seem to have a really short memory!

[Crystal Clarity]

32. I agree

WE haven't forgotten who is at fault for the repercussions we're still experiencing after 8 years of Bush. But the general public apparently has. Letting the R's wreck this country further will not help strategically and furthermore, I don't think this country can take much more of it.

[T Wolf]

3. You speak a real inconvenient truth. Unfortunately, the Dems will run interference for the pukes

and wind up taking most of the blame for the continued downward slide into disaster.

It's what they do.

I've been saying for years that things are going to have to get much, much worse for enough of us to wake up and do something.

That is the only way that real progress will come about. Obama's (and 99% of the Democratic pols) bipartisanship only slightly delayed the inevitable.

And killed any chance for real progress.

[bobbolink]

4. You speak truth.

I wish it wasn't, but there it is.

We poor folk have known this for a very long time now.

[Angry Dragon]

5. There are some or many that would agree with you

The problem is that democrats are such a diverse group.
They care about their fellow man, they want to make their life better.
The republicans only care about themselves. They want to make their life better
but care little if their fellow man benefits from their abuse.

It is easy to exclude people and have an agenda to promote your ideas.
It is hard to include everyone and promote their ideas.

You are correct that once people feel pain then they might decide
that maybe their way was not working.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. It's like Solomon in reverse

They keep getting the baby because they are willing to see it cut in half

[highplainsdem]

6. That won't work as long as we control the White House and Senate.

[Uzybone]

12. thanks for thinking clearly

in the real world sitting back and blaming all the problems on the GOP house will not work. Especially with the GOP megaphone (the media) blaring everyday that liberals are the source of all evil.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. True.

Your point is valid. My comments are more about our tone than the procedures and votes.

[highplainsdem]

16. We need to corner them on specific issues and legislation,

and make it more and more obvious when they're being the Party of No, and the party of Plutocrats vs. Democrats.

[Barack_America]

9. The Republicans may be wrecking the country, but the Dems sure as hell ain't fixing it.

And that, my friend, is the problem.

Win or lose these elections, we were still in a bad way.

[BeFree]

10. No more being nice

They have bullied the people into thinking they have the answers.

Now we demand answers. What is the plan? Where is my new job?

Republicans have had a free ride all these years. It's time they pay up, or shut up.

[killbotfactory]

14. They destroyed the country for eight years straight

We got a two year reprieve right as all of their bullcrap exploded and almost tanked the country, and we just bitched and moaned the republicans back into office.

[chimpymustgo]

20. It wasn't our "bitching and moaning" that put the Rethugs back in office.

It's Dems compromising and capitulating and coddling the corporations and banks and not coming up with solutions for job creation.

[killbotfactory]

21. Republican obstructionism shifted power to Blue Dogs

Most democrats, Obama included, wanted more progressive laws enacted, but there was no way to get around the blue dogs and lock-step republican obstructionism. Significant progress was made despite this fact.

I just hope that in 2012 the people who weren't happy with the pace of progress realize how much was done when republicans try to strip it all away.

[Javaman]

15. I've stated similar things in the past...

it will take a complete collapse under repuke rule in order for people to come to their senses.

It would be horrible to me, my friends and my neighbors. I would probably lose my jobs as a result, but it if means a return to a level of civility and sanity, so be it.

Generally, I'm not a end justifies the means type of guy.

[DirkGently]

17. I think they've got their timing down too well. F up, let the Dems in. Return for the recovery.

That's what I'm guessing we'll see this time as well. We've likely turned the corner on the recession they largely caused. They'll symbolically pretend to kill healthcare reform and stimulus,run the deficit to the moon with defense spending and tax cuts to justify whatever SS and Medicare cuts they can get away with, then claim they fixed everything as we start to stumble out of the economic disaster on our own. Romney / Palin 2012, hurrah.

It's not what you do in office, it's what happens WHEN you're in office. Ask Jimmy Carter.

[Kablooie]

18. I doubt 2 years will be enough to make a difference.

and they will always blame the previous 2 years that the Democrats supposedly ran the government.

The big difference between Democrats and Republicans is the Repugs know how to blame and make it stick. They blame Democrats for everything and hammer it in over and over until the public see it as common knowledge.

Democrats just make isolated comments now and then about how the GOP is responsible for some of our problems.

Even though the Democrats have a much stronger case to make against the Republicans than vice versa, they consistently refuse to take advantage of it. As a result the country continues to swing to the right in spite of the obvious destruction to our way of life.

Reality is nothing.
Perception is everything.

[Tansy_Gold]

19. Here's what I just said to the BF --

it's long and convoluted, so pay attention.

What happened in Florida is a textbook case of Democratic party failure.

The Democratic party has never adopted a clear cohesive ideology. We're the big tent and that means we let just about everyone in without demanding any kind of ideological purity from them. And that's probably a good thing.

But it also means that the Democratic party lacks a certain unity. Yeah, PUMA and all that. The fact is, the Dems don't have what the GOP has.

So when Charlie Crist entered the race and looked like he might win, Dems faced a dilemma: Support the potential winner Crist even though he's a former puke and unknown quantity as an I, or support the real Democrat Kendrick Meek who really didn't have a chance. That dilemma, and the desire for victory, entered the dialogue here on DU, too. The rules (ideology) are no support for non-Dems running against Dems, but that rule was waived for the chance to back a winner.

So what happened? Well, it looks like Meek lost because the Dems abandoned him for a "winner," and Meek stood firm on more or less non-existent party principles. They both lost.

The same thing happened in 2004, when the Dems insisted on going through the formalities of the primary campaign. They stood firm rather than broker a deal -- which would probably have led to a Kerry-Edwards ticket anyway -- that would have allowed their ticket to campaign much longer than waiting until the convention. (They did start a little early, but then Kerry turned out to be a wimp after all.)

And to a certain extent, it happened again in 2008 with whole Hillary/Obama thing. We're STILL getting fall-out from that, with the sniping continuing to this day on DU against anyone who might have supported Hillary being labeled a PUMA or an Obama-hater or a puke-supporter. There are DUers who demand the same kind of absolute party loyalty that the pukes demand. The problem is, the pukes have an ideology that matches that demand. The Dems don't.

The Dems, because they embrace so many varieties of Democrat, don't really know where to draw the line. The pukes do. They know where their line is, and because the Dems won't stand firm, the pukes are able to keep moving that line further and further to the right.

Unless and until the Dems define themselves, they will be vulnerable to being defined by others, and others will define them as out.

The pukes, in good authoritarian style, comprise two distinct classes -- the followers and the leaders. The followers expect their leaders to lead, and they follow wherever those leaders lead. They are comfortable with strong leaders telling them what to do and how to think.

Dems aren't like that. So what the Dem leadership has to do -- and has so far failed to do with any success -- is develop a strategy for paying attention to their own followers more than the followers of the puke leaders. Dems need to find leaders who are real Dems. And Dems have to go after the voters, not on the political level but on the personal level. On the level of popular culture and daily life.

The Democratic party isn't doing this at all. Is it capable of doing so? Yes, of course. But it will mean living within its own skin, its own identity, and I think too many Dems are afraid of that. They've been made to be afraid by the pukes, and the pukes, like all abusers, like to blame the victims.

The Dems need to stop being victims. They had the chance in Obama's election; they could have escaped the abuse and gained psychological independence from the bullies. They didn't, and some of us knew this as soon as Obama began assembling a transition team and a cabinet that 1.) glorified the very policies that had created the problems and 2.) left a lot of people vulnerable to the puke strategy.

Would Arizona and Kansas have been subjected to such horrors as Brewer and Quayle and Brownback if Obama hadn't plucked Napolitano and Sibelius away? (And I'm not letting Janet or Kathleen off the hook for leaving, either.)

For being a chess player, Obama has not seemed able to look beyond the current move. He and the Dems failed to understand that yes, sometimes people will be so disgusted with one candidate that they will vote for a candidate they know has no chance of winning even though that vote will ultimately put the very worst person in office. No one seems to have effectively countered that mindset. No one seems to be strategizing how to make the Democratic platform and party more attractive to the Green party voters who often hurt themselves as well as the Dems.

Rather than chasing after the moderate pukes, the Dems have never seriously courted the left, which is growing larger and larger as the Dems move further and further to the right. The fact that Harry Reid is still talking about compromise and working together with the puks is all the evidence we need.



Tansy Gold

[felix_numinous]

22. I agree, well said.

'The Dems need to stop being victims'

We have to go on the offensive, make ourselves seen and heard until the MSM can't ignore us anymore. We have to stop being the silent majority and demand to be represented. What we have on our side is the law, our own innocence, and our solidarity.

Investigations into Republican secret foreign money laundering schemes is what I call ruthless, we do need to go on the offensive.

[Prism]

33. This should be an OP n/t

[craigmatic]

23. House dems just need to say no to everything they want and keep tight disipline.

[customerserviceguy]

24. The question is, who gets the blame?

The tea partiers are going to say that without a Republicon president, and especially without a Rethug Senate, they were not able to accomplish what they were sent to Washington to do. Frankly, I expect that they're going to build their cred with battles against establishment Repukes who do try to make some compromising noises with the President and the Democratic members of Congress.

The same thing will be important two years from now: Will the economy be in a noticeable recovery by then, or not? Will the President face an internal nomination battle, that will distract him from being able to lead the country?

Country-club GOP'ers are just as afraid of the tea partiers as anybody, they'll have no reason to do anything with the gobs of cash that they're currently sitting on right now, lest it boost the baggers' chances for 2012.

[Jade Fox]

25. Been having similar thoughts......

So the Pubs have been given another chance, owning largely to the frightened older population of this country reacting to GOP shameless scare tactics and sneaky racisim.

The Republicans are still the same clueless clowns they were during the Bush Admin. They have shown a marked inability to learn, and can be counted on to screw up. Again.

[Naturyl]

26. I'd agree if they weren't dead set on taking the food off my table

And quite a few other tables as well.

Survival is one thing you unfortunately can't play the bluffing game with.

[GeorgeGist]

27. Forget the Republicans ...

Kill the Corporations.

[GeorgeGist]

28. Forget the Republicans ...

Kill the Corporations.

[somone]

29. They can only do it if the Senate and Obama let them

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

30. You are thinking of destruction as active

Without the cooperation of the majority of the House of Representatives no government program can be funded. Hell, the national debt cannot even be serviced.

These clowns could cause the US of A to go out of business as an ongoing concern simply by doing nothing.


There is nothing the Senate or Obama can do to block a non-thing.

[David Zephyr]

34. Except the most defenseless and needy get hurt.

I hear you, but when we let it all come down, it crushes the weakest among us. Keep the faith.

[BzaDem]

35. If the country goes to hell, only Obama will get blamed. Did people blame the D congress in 2008?

Nope. They blamed Bush (rightly so). In this case, even if the blame falls at the feet of the Republican Congress, Obama will get blamed.