That wasn't very much fun.

[Skinner]

The midterm elections are over, and the results are obviously not good for Democrats. There are many reasons why we lost, but I think the economy is probably the biggest.

Two years ago the economy was in free-fall and people were hurting, and they voted decisively for Barack Obama and Democrats. We've had two years to turn the economy around -- and we have made progress -- but it has not been nearly enough. Unemployment is still near 10%. Foreclosures are still at historic highs. People are still scared and uncertain.

It does not help that Wall Street -- the people who got us into this mess in the first place -- seems to be doing fine. In fact, they seem to be doing better than ever.

I am a strong supporter of President Obama, I think he has amassed an impressive record of accomplishments, and overall I think he's done a great job under very difficult circumstances. But I don't think he is particularly good at tapping into people's anger, or understanding their feelings that they have not been treated fairly. This might not have been such a problem if it weren't for the unique circumstances of this economic crisis.

It is no secret that the bank bailouts were deeply unpopular. As everyone here on DU knows, the bailouts actually occurred on Bush's watch. But Obama supported them, and so he's had to own them. Personally, I think the bank bailouts -- however distasteful -- were necessary. I think we could not risk the complete collapse of the global economy, which was a very real possibility. But whether they were necessary or not, the bottom line is that it just doesn't seem fair that big banks had their bad behavior rewarded with a massive government handout, while regular people got very little. People are very sensitive to perceived unfairness.

President Obama can say that he averted another Great Depression, he can say that millions of people have jobs now that probably wouldn't if the banks had been allowed to fail, and he would probably be right. But I don't think that argument resonates particularly well. If someone has the exact same job they had two years ago, I don't think they are very likely to give the President credit for that. They don't see any noticeable improvement in their situation. All they see is that they are in the exact same spot they were two years ago.

In hindsight, I think we might not have done so badly in this election if President Obama and the Democrats had done more to improve the economy for regular Americans. Paul Krugman of the New York Times has argued that the economic stimulus package should have been much, much larger, and I think he's probably right. A larger stimulus might have given the economy a kick-start, and if it were heavily aimed at middle class Americans, it might have gone a long way toward addressing the feeling that the system unfairly benefits the wealthy and powerful over regular people. What I'm not so sure of is whether President Obama could bring himself to demagogue the Main Street/Wall Street divide. It's clear he sees himself as a consensus builder, and driving a wedge like that seems out of character.

All the other issues -- health care, deficits, or whatever -- seem secondary to me. It's true that people don't like the health care bill (or their perception of it) and people don't like deficits. But I don't think any of those issues would have had much traction if the economy had been better.

Unfortunately, now that the Republicans have taken control of the House of Representatives, our chances of fixing the economy, or doing anything that helps regular people, are greatly diminished. There is a chance that the economy might get better on its own, and at this point that may be the best we can hope for. President Obama is now faced with a choice: He could try to work with Republicans in a bipartisan way to pass legislation and actually accomplish some things during the next two years; or he could boldly advocate for legislation that he knows will never pass the House in an effort to cast them as obstructionists. Politically, I think the latter approach would probably be more effective (and would be much more popular here on DU). But I think he is more likely to do the former. He is a consensus builder and a pragmatist right down to his bones, and I suspect he would consider it irresponsible to waste two years on partisan bickering with nothing to show for it.

Oh, well. At least we have John Boehner and the Republicans to kick around for a while. I'm really looking forward to sticking a boot in their ass, repeatedly, over the next two years. It'll be refreshing to see people on DU going after Republicans a little more often, instead of constantly attacking President Obama. Or each other.

[ColesCountyDem]

1. Getting spanked is never fun. K&R....

:(

[Fla_Democrat]

Well....

in politics... no :evilgrin:



:smoke:

[ColesCountyDem]

11. LOL!

:spank:

[raccoon]

103. Depends on who's doing the spanking....nt

[SusanaMontana41]

111. You are so naughty ... lol! n/t

[stopbush]

110. It really stems from the fact that Americans love them some delusion,

some scapegoats and somebody, anybody, to tell them "it's not your fault."

We're the most-religious country in the Western world. Pure delusion elevated to a state of quasi-realism.

We love a scapegoat - blacks, Jews, hippies, Muslims, terr'ists, lib'ruls, whatever. He who defines the scapegoat controls the argument.

It's never our fault - war, poverty, job loss, etc. It all happens to god's chosen nation because "they" are against us.

The RW memes all play upon these deep-seated fears. No amount of hope will change them. No amount of progress is enough, especially when it's so easy to deny actual progress simply by stating "that didn't help anybody," as do the Rs on any D program, the companion of which is, "that used to help people, but now, it's a drag on the economy (SS, unemployment insurance, etc)."

Fear truly is the greatest motivator. The Rs know this, and they use it at every turn.

[de novo]

2. They blew it.

"I think we might not have done so badly in this election if President Obama and the Democrats had done more to improve the economy for regular Americans"

This was not a secret to anyone paying attention. We all knew in 2008 this would be what 2010 was run on.

Jobs were needed. The Dems failed, they got punished. It really is that simple.

[aquart]

8. "They"?

Not you, then.

[de novo]

13. Yes, they who govern blew it.

I voted for them. I worked hard to get them there. They blew it.

I have am in no capacity to create jobs.

[seabeyond]

16. the simplist of things obama did to create jobs was what right used against him this election

and it is far from as simple as that. there is so much more

but keep it simple, for your soundbites.

[de novo]

22. Unemployment is still around 10%.

You have to produce results. Theoretical jobs won't do it. The agenda wasn't focused on the real problems of real Americans out of work.

Had he gotten the unemployment to 7% or less, the Dems would still be holding the House.

[seabeyond]

27. well gee, we can a;ways resort to that magic wand. why didnt obama think of that? nt

[de novo]

40. He was effective in producing results.

The rest is just excuses. He could have focused on job creation. The rest of the Democratic Leadership could have played harder ball. They could have been more effective.

They weren't, for whatever reason.

[LanternWaste]

115. Wonderfully vague...

Wonderfully vague... both in format and content.

[friedfish2718]

158. Obama was not effective in producing good results.

"He could have focused on job creation."
That is the bad focus. The focus was to engender a fertile environment for commercial enterprises - whatever they are - to thrive and grow. With growth, the jobs follow.

If the primary focus is strictly jobs, then disallow mechanization and give everyone a shovel and a bucket.

[laughingliberal]

139. Or he could have told the truth that $700 billion in stimulus was too small to help a lot,

blamed the Republicans for that, and asked for more.

That was hard to do, however, while he was courting the deficit hawks.

[lark]

48. It's nice to think that

but I have my doubts. FL elected a man for governor whose company had 7 billion dollars in Medicare fines due to fraudulent billing both to the government and to the individual Medicare patients, who was personnaly responsible because he OK'd the gutting of the compliance office. FL elected a criminal rather than a moderate Democrat. How could they possibly think he could bring jobs here? It's not even just throw out the incumbents - IN elected a R whose been in office 26 years.

I truly think this is just a crazy redneck country and right now, I just want out.

OK, ranting stopped for now.

[Mojorabbit]

54. There was an awful lot of outside

money spent in Florida. It was nonstop negative ads. I am still in shock though that he won.

[HillbillyBob]

178. There were a lot here in NC too. Now we first rpig led(ruled?) govt

since reconstruction.
I expect to see a whole shit load of crap coming out of Raliegh. Even our moderate/conservavitive flavord Dem senator to Raleigh has been replaced by a lobbiest Rick Gunn. it makes me fucking sick. So GD much for progress, this is the sombitch that hates minimum wages and any taxes at all well for rich people that is.

[Uzybone]

31. True, while it could have been better, the stimulus created jobs

and we paid terribly for it.

[seabeyond]

37. cash for clunkers, auto bailout, least restriction on wallstreet, credit card

there are more, cant remember it all

[tavalon]

34. The deafness in the Beltway really contributed to this, I believe

And likely they are going to get just the wrong idea. I hope not, though. But my hope is really thin.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

79. ...

:dunce:

[HillbillyBob]

177. They failed to grasp that the other side wanted to vilify them

We bitched because they were doing it wrong and kissin R ass and trying to be f ing nice. It was not the time to be nice. Now isn't either.
The Rs made us the enemy years ago. I will not apologize for being progressive or liberal.

[ColesCountyDem]

3. Dupe. Please delete. n/t

[NashVegas]

4. Sometimes, I Think We Should Have Learned From Bush / Cheney

and LIHOP.

Whether or not you buy into that notion, 9/11 happened and Republicans got everything they wanted. They got a war - two of them. They got still-more tax cuts.

Same thing with health care/insurance: LIHOP. Let it break, and ride in on the white horse. The banks? Well, Iceland is still there, isn't it?

[onehandle]

5. Harry Reid winning was a very bright spot for me. Suck it, tearacists! nt

[aquart]

6. Yeah.

[LiberalEsto]

7. Pretty good analysis overall

This particularly resonated for me:

"If someone has the exact same job they had two years ago, I don't think they are very likely to give the President credit for that. They don't see any noticeable improvement in their situation. All they see is that they are in the exact same spot they were two years ago."

I still don't have the job I didn't have two years ago, so I am still in the same exact spot I was in two years ago: unemployed.

Sharpen your boots!

[zipplewrath]

9. Obama owns the unfairness

"It is no secret that the bank bailouts were deeply unpopular. As everyone here on DU knows, the bailouts actually occurred on Bush's watch. But Obama supported them, and so he's had to own them. Personally, I think the bank bailouts -- however distasteful -- were necessary. I think we could not risk the complete collapse of the global economy, which was a very real possibility. But whether they were necessary or not, the bottom line is that it just doesn't seem fair that big banks had their bad behavior rewarded with a massive government handout, while regular people got very little. People are very sensitive to perceived unfairness."

They were unfair, and Obama made the decision not to tie strings to the bailout cash. Obama made the decision to pay 100 cents on the dollar. Obama made the decision not to do cram downs, or to help folks pay down their principal. He owns all those decisions.

If he had successfully helped people avoid the mortgage crisis we are now enduring, he could have resucued his presidency from this. He cared more for Geithners pedantry than for peoples homes.

[NJmaverick]

26. The Bailouts cost virtually nothing compared to the S&L bailout

that's a fact the public is largely ignorant of.

[zipplewrath]

33. Nor care either

Since of course it's not like they're getting a check or anything. The ones that still owe 100% on the dollar for their underwater mortgages aren't impressed.

[NJmaverick]

46. $29 billion to prevent another Great Depression was an absolute bargain

It should have been sold to the American public that way.

[zipplewrath]

71. To moderate one

The guy that is struggling to hang on to his job, or his house, or for his college graduated kid to find a job isn't impressed by the fact that the depression isn't as bad as it could be. He's not impressed that there are only 10% unemployed instead of 13%. He's not impressed that the bankers got their bonus, but he's still underwater to them on his house.

But you know how they SHOULD think.

[Imperialism Inc.]

90. I'm sorry but that is just a fairy tale.

There are so many assumptions and exclusions built in to that number that it can't be taken seriously. The assumptions about what the government will get out of selling its AIG holdings are probably (but not definitely) pretty reasonable but the assumptions about how Fannie and Freddie will do are not. Then there is all the stuff the on FED balance sheet that it bought up and still has, which we don't even know what it is let alone whether its prices have gone up or down. Even the bank equity we sold back at a profit came with costs. That was largely done with record low interest rates which rob people of interest income, and by giving banks treasuries for trash and then paying them interest to not lend it out. I could go on , but the point is that $29b figure is an illusion. We paid plenty more than that even if it doesn't show up as a line item on the federal deficit.

[lark]

52. While Repugs would have done much more harm,

they didn't own Congress. The D's did and they let down the working class and it totally turned on them - as the Repugs planned all along. If D's had stood tall and repayed banks at current value, not previous value, mandated cram downs, changed BK law so mortgages could be reduced to present value, done real infrastructure updating, they'd have won because unemployment would be less and so many people wouldn't be hurting. Obama let the D's water down the bills to be mainly useless to common folks and stood up for the wrong class and it bit him in the ass. Now, he'll do even more bending over for Repugs and guess what - it will take a miracle for us not to have a Repug President, Senate and House by 1/13.

[closeupready]

62. And recently, he stated cramdowns and other such imperatives would reward 'undeserving' defaulters.

So, there you go. His unfairness (perceived or real) seems to be fundamentally Obama.

[zipplewrath]

72. As oppose to those deserving bankers

Again, he was more concerned about fairness to the bankers bonus contracts than he was about people being in their own homes.

[closeupready]

75. Exactly.

He doesn't have a good instinct at political posturing, because it served NO purpose whatsoever to state this idea publicly, even if he DOES believe it.

[zipplewrath]

76. The idea does no good at all.

The idea is absurd. That we should be more concerned about bankers bonus contracts than the victims of the housing bubble is just absurd. Sure there's blame to go all around. But then there should be bail out all around as well.

[subterranean]

174. I think by "undeserving" defaulters, he meant property speculators.

Although he might not have made that clear enough when he said it.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. In the polls I saw, the economy was 60%+ as top issue

with health care and deficits down below 20%.

This election was about the economy as far as the voters were concerned, and they threw the bums out. The FUCKING LIARS have attempted to use the economic situation to make this election about their agenda, and as far as the COMPLICIT CORPORATE MEDIA is concerned, they have been overwhelmingly successful in doing that.

[dionysus]

12. "instead of constantly attacking President Obama"... nah, that'll still happen. ppl can multitask...

;)

[MineralMan]

14. Nicely put.

I expect a lot of intraleague bashing over the next few days. I don't see any way that won't happen. I hope, though, that settles down and DU gets down to the business of trying to figure out actual steps that will help reverse what happened yesterday. I agree that is primarily the economy that gets most of the blame for this political turnaround. If the economy improves, for whatever reason, and I believe it will, we need to make sure that is the Democratic side that gets the credit for it in the public's mind. I'm not sure how we'll do that, but it's going to be absolutely essential.

If we are unsuccessful with that, and dissolve into bickering with each other, things may well go worse for Democrats in 2012. I don't think that's acceptable.

[sabrina 1]

131. What you are seeing is political analysis. Interesting that you

would call it 'bashing'.

The economy included the bailouts, so unpopular that initially Congress bent to the will of the people and voted against them. Only to have Wall St. with the help of Dems, bring it back for another vote, basically telling the American people to get lost. It was more than just the economy, it was and is the complete disregard for the people when it was Wall St. V The American people. That is just a fact.

It also includes letting Wall St. criminals off the hook, and worse, rewarding them. These things are extremely important to people who have been told that everyone is equal under the law.

The foreclosure crisis was a massive crime, and once again, attempts are being made to cover it up. The economy plus unfairness, plus injustice, all were issues that people were concerned with under the heading of 'the economy'.

Wall St was bailed out, the American people were asked to pay for that, while they received no help. Maybe if the American people incorporated, they too would be 'too big to fail'.

We are adults, we WILL discuss what caused this defeat, that is not 'bickering' it is called discussion. And we, the people, will have to make some decisions because believe it or not, it is our country too, not just Wall St's.

The discussions will continue until solutions are found. That is called democracy.

When so many people across the country agree on certain things, they are apparently not bickering but agreeing and looking for solutions.

Democrats are not the people you need to be concerned about. Republicans are the ones who will be looking for a fight. We are looking for ways to fix this country, to restore the rule of law, and to start doing what other countries are doing, prosecuting the criminals who crashed this country's economy so that there are no incentives for this to happen again.

[Marr]

133. Exactly. Apologists want to just brush it all off by citing, "the economy", as if

it's just a force of nature, disconnected from policy. When people complain about "the economy", they're talking about real, concrete actions taken by real people in government, like the bailouts. So yeah, the Democrats took a beating for their handling of the economy; for all their assisted looting of the treasury on behalf of Wall Street, for bailing out the insurance companies and calling it "healthcare reform", for leaving homeowners out to dry so they could service the people who caused the problem, etc., etc.

[sabrina 1]

135. + 1,000 n/t

[housewolf]

15. I think Obama's biggest "failure" has been in educating the people about his policies &the problems

He just hasn't been at all successful at clearly communicating the policies, their goals, and the successes in a way that people can understand them and feel good about the progress that has been done and is continuing to be done.

I agree with you, Skinner - I, too, am looking forward to more bashing of Repubs and less bashing of Dems

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

20. It's hard to educate people who refuse to be educated

The 20% of the public who swings elections one way or another are not interested. They want things fixed, not explained to them. And if the fix doesn't come within months, nevermind a year, they turn on whomever they supported the last time. And if the jobless rate dropped tomorrow, they would be foolish enough to credit the Republicans for it.

[Mojorabbit]

58. I disagree

I feel that he did not get the message out on the good things he did and the media did not help. I use my non political hubby as a barometer and he had no idea what Obama had done except health care. It really helps if the public knows what you are doing if you want to capture the low info voter.

[tigereye]

64. exactly!

[DevonRex]

68. That's my biggest beef with the party as a whole. We need to educate

the electorate and tout our accomplishments, too.

[NJmaverick]

17. The economy wins or loses it for both sides

while both sides like to think it's about liberal or conservative issues, it all comes down to the economy. The voters punished the Dems for failing to fix the mess the Republicans left them in just 20 months. Anger and fear makes people do irrational things including voting back into office the people that destroyed our economy.

[siligut]

18. Wall Street is a well oiled machine.

"Buy when there is blood in the streets". While on DU we can kick around the republicans, the M$M will continue to support them.

[xchrom]

19. Recommend - thanks for thoughts Skinner - we all

Appreciate hearing from you.

I'll have to agree and disagree with you on
This - we all have our thoughts what made and what
Broke us yesterday.

[bullwinkle428]

21. Alerted, for insufficient support of the Democratic Party!

I KEED! I KEED!



K&R.

[NoNothing]

23. I agree

And have said so repeatedly. Voters would tolerate the economy not recovering, if (as with FDR) they believed it was the President's #1 top priority, and they could see things being done to FIX it. But this has to be more than putting signs on construction projects. Road construction happens every year. It's simply more of the same. Sure, he bailed out GM. But GM has been making cars for a long time. Now, they will...continue to make cars. Again, it's more of the same. Nobody really believed anything serious was being done.

Why was a WPA-style jobs program never seriously considered? Why wasn't something grandiose done with the stimulus money, on the same scale as the Hoover Dam? Something big and visible that employed a lot of BLUE-COLLAR workers, that would inspire people? Sorry, nobody is inspired by widening I-94 by a lane, helpful though it may be.

[chimpymustgo]

49. Exactly.

[HughMoran]

24. Good post Skinner

Not much to criticize there, I agree with nearly all of what you've said. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether Obama could have gotten a larger stimulus package, but we'll never know now, will we!

[flamingdem]

25. Rec - support our President + get rid of Citizens United nt

[Misskittycat]

61. Absolutely. The Citizens United case had a huge impact on this election!

[John Commonsense]

28. The mood of telectorate seems to be not so much "what have you done for me yesterday or today"

but rather "what are you going to do for me tomorrow."

The republicans are offering a continuation of the tax cut that will only grow the debt, but they know what resonates with the fickle electorate: lies, half truths and promises of a better tomorrow.

They are bread and butter lies, but they also work apparently.

Before we stick a boot in the republican backside we better have a master plan as to how to extract that boot, if we can win in 2012, and create something measurable that the electorate feels that they can actually understand in bread and butter terms.

[bobbolink]

29. I'm surprised but delighted to hear that you are giving Krugman some credit for his wisdom.

That is the single most encouraging thing I have read here, Skinner, and I appreciate more than you know you voicing that.

If the Dems will actually hear that and take heed, there may be a bit of hope yet.

If they, once again, dismiss Krugman, the Dems are in for more disaster.

None of this was necessary, which is what makes it so very sad.

[GreenPartyVoter]

51. Yes, Krugman needs to not be dismissed the way he has been.

[bobbolink]

59. WISDOM is always the most needed quality. Tossing it away because of pride is a tragedy,

Its time for the good of the country to be more important than salvaging pride.

[lark]

57. K & R your message

:toast:

[mntleo2]

78. Krugman was right all along

...it was sad to me that they ignore a freaking Nobel Prize winner that would have been on Obama's side, but give the power to Wall Street thugs instead in the Cabinet. Now it is time to do some real work and I believe that Obama could improve things a lot if he would simply put some better people in there. However something tells me that is just a dream.

As for "consensus building" yes this is usually the sensible way but Obama has already tried that and it did not work. Again I suspect that "the definition of insanity" of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is going to rule the day ~ AGAIN. (sigh).

Still I am glad Skinner saw Krugman's position and it is time the rest of the 'consensus builders" see it too.

Cat in Seattle

[bobbolink]

81. I agree except to say it is beyond sad... it is a tragedy. One many of us saw coming.

I remain encouraged that Skinner is listening to Krugman now, and hope he can whisper in Obama's ear.

Many of us are devastated to see the party we have been loyal to all our adult lives going down in flames... needlessly. :cry:

[Myrina]

164. Spot on!

:applause:

[tavalon]

30. Yep, this is the best shot in the arm for unity for DU that we could have hoped for

That said, I'm furious. Apoplectic, in fact. And I have a bad hangover. If anyone dares to blame me or anyone here at DU for some sort of imaginary enthusiasm gap, well, it won't be pretty.

But unlike 2004, I'm using this anger as a springboard. See my journal if'n ya want.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9464399

[DevonRex]

32. I'm astounded at the optimism of your last sentence.

I hope you're right but I don't see it happening.

That being said, your analysis is pretty darned good otherwise.

[okieinpain]

35. agree. n/t.

[October]

36. All good points

Though I am demoralized today for we lost a congressman, senator and governor. (PA)

I'm also sad because it seems whether we work with Republicans (as Obama does) or fight back (as Grayson does), we seem to lose. The other side has the $$$ and microphones to frame every issue.

Unbelievably, the Right seems to keep coming up with new ways to keep their base angry -- which seems to win elections in this country

[TwilightGardener]

38. I agree. And I'm not too bothered--it would be quite the miracle for

one party to dominate the executive AND legislative branches indefinitely, especially through a near-depression. I expected the pendulum to swing back for a host of reasons, and it did--still have the Senate and WH, that's good enough.

[TexasObserver]

39. A generally good assessment.

We badly needed a second stim package and a new jobs program, both items I've called for the past year.

I said the whole "what about the deficit" meme was a sucker punch, and it was. The new congress will not cut spending. They'll try to cut programs they don't like, but most of our spending is locked in. Only increased revenues can balance the budget, and that means full employment is the only way to balance the budget.

[proud patriot]

41. being Californian there's a bit more sunshine on my face today

than for most of the Country . I'm looking forward to repub bashing :evilgrin:

[October]

43. Happy about California, too! It's glum in my part of PA

We lost a congressman, senator and governor.

[proud patriot]

55. I'm so sorry

:-( We'll get 'em next time

[lonestarnot]

144. Could be worse you could be in AZ.

They are putting the entire population into the pen for a billion dollar profit all by next week. :patriot:

[tigereye]

66. wow, it's amazing. I was thinking about when I canvassed from Brown here

when he was running against Clinton in the primary in 92, I think. Good for him. It won't be boring, that's for sure! You folks in California always keep things interesting!


:hi: PP!

[DevonRex]

74. Being Coloradan, I'm so very happy we dodged 2 major bullets: Buck and Tancredo.

Talk about a scary nightmare. The worst thing about both of them is that they're actually intelligent people who come across as reasonable. They could have done some very real damage to this state.

Thankfully we got Bennet and Hickenlooper. :bounce:

[Mad_Dem_X]

114. I'm quite happy to be a Delawarean today!

Dems won in both the big races. :)

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. The economy will get better, but it's largely because of the policies of the last two years.

The stimulus was too small and poorly directed to be *immediately* effective.

Obama will waste two years on partisan bickering, regardless. Might as well get good at it. The only house bills that should pass the senate are the craziest ones, shut down the government, nuke the UN, repeal Social Security - stupid shit like that. Obama can veto them and Dems can look good doing it.

I don't want the product of the teabagger stupid idea machine to die in Senate committees. I want a full and public hearing of the Rand Paul bill to repeal the civil rights act. I want vigorous debate on their bill to abolish OSHA and the FDA.

We're in campaign 2012 mode right now. No sensible policy will happen in the meantime, it's a waste of time to pretend.

Nothing good is going to happen, might as well score some points.

[LoZoccolo]

44. I know I'm acting like a major pest about this, but now that we've got our work cut out for us

could we have the dedicated partisan forum? It could actually be a way to diminish the infighting because the people who want to focus on just plain winning could work undistracted and would spend less time fighting with people who want to talk about other things. The more time I spend working on 2012, the less time I spend contemplating the boundrary conditions of the use of food stamps.

I've looked at Democrats.com and I think they've got a good set of rules for going about this (I notice there is specific prohibition of misrepresenting Democratic positions which is important) but it's just not set up as well, doesn't have the profile, doesn't have the user base, and from what I'm seeing the users are stuck with their topics. Besides: I like you, man. I read your posts about what you want to do here and I generally agree with that as well as your political opinons and analysis.

[handmade34]

45. no, it was not very much fun...

I am sick today and it probably is all psychological... such a disappointment

Today I am worried about our environment (and climate change), abortion rights, LGBT rights, our country's infrastructure and unhealthy dependence on oil... and on...

The Republicans spent 2 years fighting to stop any kind of progress and then blamed the Democrats for not getting anything done... they are not to be trusted to do what is in our best interest

[Dappleganger]

47. Kicking Boner every day is going to become a new sport for me.

Hopefully others will join in the fun!

[Buns_of_Fire]

121. But of course! We'll make however much lemonade we can extract from the situation!

People are sniping at each other less already, I've noticed. (1) Work towards 2012, (2) Make fun of the Weeping Orange Boner (and Senator Aqua Buddha, of course). You work with what you've got to work with.

Now that the pressure is off (for a few days), DUers are getting a chance to recuperate and recharge. This is a good thing.

[blogslut]

50. I pretty much agree with everything you said

Either that, or I'm too hung over to respond. Last night's loss had me throwing back the rum. I'm not as bummed as I was in 2004 but I'm certainly not happy about yesterday.

[BanTheGOP]

53. Hey, KIDS! We actually DID GREAT!

Seriously, let's take a look here.

Everyone was CRYING that the repukes were going to win the Senate, and take 100 seats in the Congress. They said that Christine O'Donnell and Sharron Angle were credible candidates and would win their seats.

But WE TURNED THEM BACK. The people REALIZE that it was NOT President Obama's agenda, but it was ROGUE AGENCY in the populace that turned the poeple against our progressive movement.

But they only got 60 house seats. SIXTY! EVERYONE was saying 100, to me, that's a WIN of FORTY SEATS!

And the senate races? All they got was... RAND PAUL and MARCO RUBIO?? They DIDN'T EVEN WIN THE SENATE??

FOLKS...this is a HUGE WIN FOR US! IN one fell swoop, we discredited Sarah Palin, who will now have to endure resentment and anger by a very dispirited republican base who EXPECTED the teabaggers to cruise into complete control.

NOW we can target Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, and John Boehner and put the blame SQUARELY on their shoulders. Without an O'Donnell, an Angle, a Fiorino, or a Pallodino to mess things up in the Senate, it will be EASY to create problems.

The Democratic Party has now GUARANTEED to win in 2012, including President Obama's reelection, and the repudiation of all republicans the next cycle.

Skinner, tell everyone we WON BIG! As we DID!! All the other races are meaningless, in fact, they add to our own TARGET list of whom we can BLAME.

[AllyCat]

60. They took out Feingold. That is counting about 10x for me today.

[Lifelong Protester]

106. Boy I agree. Wisconsin is just desolate, IMHO.

Our state took a MAJOR turn towards the dark side. The election of Johnson proves that Citizens United was the most evil decision since Dred Scott from the Supreme Court.

That and a Republican't governor means those of us in education will be suffering mightily.

I want to see the 'happy' in all of this, and congratulate California, but I am too glum.

[stubtoe]

82. I rec your post! It was NOT the "tsunami" the MSM kept hammering.

[AllyCat]

56. Thanks Skinner. I'm feeling pretty crummy today in WI. Your post makes me realize

we are not alone. We can get busy attacking the real enemy and figuring out how to fix this for 2012.

[Naturyl]

63. Well, shit happens.

We'll survive. And they will screw up so royally as to make things easier for the left in 2012.

[KT2000]

65. Dear Mr. President

If she was still alive to see this, 40% of your grandmother's retirement funds evaporated due to the greed monsters on Wall Street. Her plans for enjoying retirement are out of the question and she must now conserve her money so she does not have to ask for help. How does that make you feel?

[Scurrilous]

67. "It'll be refreshing to see people on DU going after Republicans a little more often..

...instead of constantly attacking President Obama. Or each other."

:thumbsup:

[DevonRex]

69. But when does that start exactly?

:shrug:

[Scurrilous]

145. LOL

:thumbsup:

[NRaleighLiberal]

73. Good analysis and I broadly agree. Two factors you didn't bring in that I find

significant, if parallel: The impact of the Supreme Court decision to allow unidentified huge money to run anonymous (and often false) attack ads, and....the media. As I read DU and modded last night, I had NBC on, and they were often gloating at what was unfolding as if it was nothing more than a sports event. They all knew that the election outcomes would touch none of them - they are insulated because of their wealth. I know I am partisan, but my view is that the media, with the false equivalence positioning, did nothing to promote what Obama and the Dems were trying to do. And I have no answers for how to fix that - especially since so many of the targets of the media believe exactly what they hear, without critically questioning it.

[DevonRex]

77. Couldn't have said it better.

I was thinking about this in a poll thread about perception. The media is what created some false perceptions about what the Dems wanted to do as opposed to what they could do, considering Repuke obstructionism.

Never once did they talk about the Pukes blocking legislation that would have actually helped people in this time of financial crisis.

[bobbolink]

84. That's sad. As long as Dems continue blaming it on "the media" et al, nothing at all will change.

Krugman, as Skinner said, had wisdom to impart, wisdom that short-circuits the media.

To ignore that will just continue and increase the tragedy that the party has become.

I hope you will reread Krugman's words. He is pointing out the direction the party can take to save itself.

[NRaleighLiberal]

86. I am not blaming it on the media. I noted it is a parallel factor and can't be ignored.

In this climate, those in the media - like Krugman, who I deeply admire - are too easily ignored or overwhelmed by the mass of those pushing the noise machine from the right.

[DevonRex]

88. And the lack of intelligent analysis by folks like Tweety.

So we have the noise machine from the right that you mentioned, plus a very definite lack of discourse that would counter that noise machine.

[bobbolink]

89. I'm glad to hear that. However, I repeat.... the "ignoring" was done by those in power.... in the

White House.

Had they taken heed, the media would not have been such a factor.

It can still be changed, but Obama would have to be willing to change, and I don't see that happening.

Glad to know you like Krugman, and give him credence. Do what you can to get your local party to LISTEN.

Thanks.

[Skinner]

85. I am not sure that the Citizens United decision had a large impact this election...

...at least in terms of helping Republicans over Democrats.

What concerns me more about it, and about the influence of money in politics generally, is that it has the potential to influence BOTH parties in ways that help the wealthy and powerful at the expense of regular people.

If we want to really change this country, I think we have to do two things (which probably wont happen): Public financing of elections, and reforming the filibuster in the Senate.

[NRaleighLiberal]

87. Absolutely agree with you. On whether the CU decision gave the right an advantage..

David Brooks and Mark Shields had a lively set of exchanges on PBS newshour on just this topic - Brooks didn't see an impact, Shields did - it is worth finding the interchanges on the PBS news site - quite interesting.

[mvd]

80. Good post, Skinner.

I'm not sure I agree on the bank bailouts; I think they should have been thought through. I think Bush let it happen as a reward foir his cronies when he left office. Unfortunately, the two parties are so far apart on philosophy that little can be agreed to. We just have to limit the damage they could cause to what progress has been made. I think the Repukes are so bad that they will self-destruct, and people will realize what a good thing they had in the Democrats.

2012 will be better!!

[BeFree]

83. My advice?

He should sit back and let the pubbies come up with a plan, then laugh at them.

He should make sure every penny of the recovery act is spent, and spent wisely.

He should demand that defense spending goes down and SS and Health care spending goes up.

He can do wonders just because he is the president. He does not have to compromise. Did Bush ever compromise?

[Rex]

91. True, now that we have our old enemy back in power. We can all

spend the next few years being outraged at the upcoming impeachment proceedings. Though I must disagree with you on the point of the economy - to an extent it played an overall role, but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid came from a horrible state in economic freefall (and still won). I believe the biggest factor in this election was disappointment in no public option and the handling of the BP oil spill.

Welp, lets get to kicking Boner ass, just don't let his orange paint rub off on you! Eww.

[Skinner]

93. My guess is that 95% of voters don't even know what the "public option" is.

And I'm also pretty skeptical that the BP oil spill had much to do with it.

I suspect that if Sharron Angle hadn't been such a kook, or if Harry Reid hadn't been majority leader, then Nevada might well have gone to the GOP.

[Warren DeMontague]

96. I disagree. The Public Option was a big deal, and a lot of folks-rightly or wrongly-felt had.

We were promised a fight for it, and it looked to a lot of people like it was secretly bargained away in the early stages of the process.

It was a meaningful point to the whole issue, even if it contained as much symbolic as actual value- and once it was gone a lot of folks on our side felt like we were left with nothing but a mandate to buy into the insurance industry.

Now, I disagree on that, as well- as someone with a niece who has a serious Pre-existing condition, I understand that the imperfect bill we passed DOES contain significant improvements. But I think we lost more than we gained when we gave up on that one particular point.

[Rex]

120. I have to admit you might be right about Sharron Angle, she was

her own worst enemy. I still say those two issues are huge and helped define yesterdays moment.

[laughingliberal]

136. It was more than Angle being crazy. Harry carried the county where she was elected to the

State Legislature. They have no problem electing crazy people. He carried her stronghold county by 5%.

[Rex]

142. Wow. I have to admit that is an amazing statistic.

I'm not trying to say it was ALL just two big events, I would like to include ONE MORE - the way public education has been handled in the last 2 years. Things add up to mean a big negative, if you can't see the whole picture in time imo.

[laughingliberal]

134. People may not know what a public option is now but they'd have known if they got one and they'd...

have liked it.

As for Harry, he's been in worse races than this one. A very long recount in 1998 resulted in his winning here by 400 votes. Last night he won by 40,000 and carried Angle's stronghold of Washoe County by 5%. Washoe County had no problem electing her to represent them at the state legislature. If Harry had only carried Clark county, your premise might be right. But this was not just about Angle being a crazy woman. Harry won his election.

[MannyGoldstein]

159. +6.02e23

That would have been change. This election was all about delivering on change.

"We all voted for change we can believe in. If we don't get it, we'll get some more change in 2010"
- Howard Dean, August 2009

[tiredtoo]

92. We are losing these elections because

We are not getting our message through. I was at 3 or 4 meetings in the last month with mostly middle class working people. The people there would get fired up when things like welfare and low income people not paying taxes were brought up. They have been brainwashed into believing their financial woes are caused by those less fortunate than them. This a result of years of propaganda from Fox, Limbaugh et all.
Unless we can come up with a method to get our message out and understood, we are doomed for the future.
Having said that, I will continue fighting for the working class as best I can.

[Warren DeMontague]

94. We should have assumed the GOP would try to obstruct, ditched the filibuster at the outset

and ballsed out, if not a Single Payer Health Care plan, at the very least the robust public option we were promised.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda, but I can't imagine the results would have been worse had we taken that tack.

[Vinnie From Indy]

95. I guess we see things very differently

I would offer that Obama's consensus building is his achilles heel BECAUSE it is his favored approach. One need only ask what this spirit of bipartisanship has done for Democrats and the President. In short, how does consensus building work when one side has as their primary goal to obstruct any efforts at governing. Let's be honest and look at the record. The GOP has voted as a block to obstruct Pres. Obama on EVERY major bit of legislation that they have been asked to consider. I guess one could offer that Obama has been a DISMAL failure at his most favored approach to governing. I have yet to see one bit of successful consensus building since he took office.

"I suspect he would consider it irresponsible to waste two years on partisan bickering with nothing to show for it."

And what has the last two years been? What has Obama EVER gotten from the GOP the last two years?

It is my opinion that President Obama "bone deep" desire to reach consensus is his biggest weakness and his approach should be exactly the opposite.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

116. Agree with you. He tried to work with many who consider him a...

KenyanMuslimGrandma-killingCommunistTerrorist; now he'll try to make nice with the same many for whom "impeachment is on the table." It's mind-boggling. I'm not convinced these fuckers would even unite behind him if there were a *true* national emergency (beyond jobs and the economy).

[Evasporque]

97. If we were more into guns, more anti-gay, more pro-war, more low tax

and of been Republicans we would of done much better.

[pinto]

98. Good points. I think the approach in the next two years may change a bit, though, by necessity.

Repubs are likely to put up some pretty regressive bills in the House, further defining the line between agendas. That'll call for some push back from the Senate, at least, if not the White House. I suspect it'll be an interesting couple of years.

Agree - the economy / unemployment was the key factor in this mid-term. That, coupled with hits-and-misses on defining a Dem "message" nationally.

[ProudDad]

99. Two major points to consider, folks.

There are TWO "economies" operating on Earth.

There is the economy of goods and services exchange, the REAL Economy.

Then there is the phony "economy" of the banksters and "financial managers". Both wings of the Corporate War Party are in hock up to their eyeballs to the latter...

As Paul Krugman also said, it would have been a good, useful and cleansing thing if the latter economy of the confidence tricksters had been allowed to fail. I don't blame the tea party folk for being pissed about that -- I am too... If those banksters and fraudsters had "failed" it would have had NO impact on the Real Economy...Just as bailing them out and "making them whole again" in their huge profits has had NO impact on the Real Economy...

As for stimulus, if Obama had followed the example of FDR and made sure that most of the relief went directly to the suffering (or at least that most of the relief SEEMED to go to those most in need) and then used his golden toungue and the bully pulpit to demonstrate understanding of the average person's real grievances, he may have been rewarded with an increased majority in both Houses as FDR was in 1934.

(But maybe not; today we live in the post "Citizen's United" world :shrug: and because of Dem cowardice and blue-dog treason when they had the chance to pass a Sunshine Law right after "Citizen's United" )...

But, he would have had a better chance if he had proposed and the Dems passed direct relief to the Real Economy of goods and services exchange instead of the phony "economy" of the money lenders and philistines.

---------------------------------

But more importantly, we must all realize that we are moving through an unprecedented historical period in human evolution on this planet. For the first time in human history, just within my lifetime, we have exceeded the carrying capacity of the Earth to sustain the population and renew itself. In fact, we are overdrawing our resource account by 50%; like a starving person, we have quit living off our fat and are consuming our muscle.

That's what makes this "economic" crash so special. We are at the end of the Petroleum Age instead of the beginning of the peak. We have destroyed great swaths of our natural bank account by polluting our fresh water supplies, polluting our air, destroying our topsoil and degrading the food chain by our acts of pollution and over utilization for short-term profit.

This is all NEW, NEW, NEW! This has NEVER happened before during the 200,000 year history of human communities on Earth.

In fact, this is new in the 4.5 billion year history of the Earth! There has never before been a species on Earth that could destroy her as a viable habitat, until now.

And the same blind, short-term thinking that humans in the aggregate seem incapable of overcoming will probably do us in.

So, build lifeboats, try to survive the Long Emergency each in your own way but, for Dog's sake, don't expect the incredibly exploitative "economy" of the 1950-1960s and the mythical "middle class" of that time to EVER "come back".

In that direction lies madness...and planetary death...

[Better Believe It]

100. No it wasn't.

[Liberal_in_LA]

101. It was fun in California.

[Tatiana]

102. This is the best explanation of last night's results I've read. I agree.

The average American doesn't "feel" as if things are improving economically. People have little hope and see less change than they expected.

[rug]

104. War is not even mentioned.

The conscious omission of these wars, their costs and the political positioning that causes these wars to continue, is the problem.

When is the last time a national election, inside a country involved in two wars, did not involve, at a minimum, a debate on those wars?

The decision to ignore them can only be deliberate. And that decision is political cowardice.

[Dystopian]

129. Thank you.

First thing I thought of.

Lockstep.

peace~

[Catherina]

140. +1 n/t

[frustrated_lefty]

105. If you aren't unemployed, you probably know someone who is.

That is the single issue which is going to determine the outcome in 2012, imo. I really hope the party focuses in on the economy and job growth over the next two years. Health care, market and banking regulation, cap and trade, education reform, green technology and a plethora of other progressive issues can all be addressed, but need to be presented in terms of their impact on the economy and jobs.

Don't let it get you too down, Skinner. Flowers blossom out of compost.

[Lasher]

107. There is a bright side.

We just won the Colorado Senate seat for a total of 52. We were only supposed to hang onto 51. And the jury's still out on Washington. That would give us 53 and Alaska will hopefully drag out for six years or so.

[Imperialism Inc.]

108. People need Jobs Jobs Jobs does seem to be the main lesson.

The battles here on DU over more progressive , more centrists seem to be heating up already. While I think those kinds of discussions are actually good usually, I don't think they apply this time. Whichever position someone takes there are too many exceptions to make the theory work. That's because Democrats of all kinds got beat and that indicates something else was going on.

WRT Paul Krugman I think he got something else right too. It wasn't just that the stimulus was too small to do the job. It was that pretending that the stimulus was just right locks in a future narrative. The narrative that stimulus was tried already and failed. Even if Obama couldn't get more than he did he should have made it clear that it was a half measure at best. Then he would at least be able to make the case for more later.

[crim son]

109. There's a story on yahoo.com that quotes a chastened Obama as saying,

"I've been willing to compromise in the past, and I'll be willing to compromise going forward."

[Tsiyu]

112. Not here...no fun at all

Just wondering why...in the sum total of "why."

I am concerned for those on unemployment, SS, Food Stamps, facing forclosure. I do not see this new House of Horror doing much for the people.

But the bright side is, DU will become a more "refreshing" place to be, as you say.


Once we get over the shock.

[creon]

113. The recession

It was all about that.

Congress and the WH never addressed that problem. Both ditered and fussed about secondary matters.

"Well grant, it's been the devils own day"

"yea. Lick em tomorrow though".


Go get em.

[LeftHandPath]

117. Rewarding fraud and theft never works....

Obama has protected the criminal class.

How many banking criminals have been prosecuted?

[upi402]

118. No National Recovery Act

It was a lesson in timidity and the results from tepid political action. This is no surprise to me. And I predict more. We are still in denial.

I volunteered for a local Dem and am lucky to have a real Dem to work for locally.

[PeaceNikki]

119. I am broken today. Torn to bits. Driven to tears.

My spirit is officially broken. I just cannot give a shit at the moment. Wisconsin got fucked. And we lost Russ. That literally brings me to tears. If a man like Feingold can lose to THAT FUCKING MORON...THAT goddamned idiot - I give up giving a shit.

At least for a bit.

I need to heal.

:(

[sabrina 1]

138. I feel the same way ~ something is very wrong with this country

when a known corrupt, criminal in Florida can win the Governorship and a man of principle in Wisconsin can lose to a moron. The biggest loss in this race was Feingold and Grayson.

[BlueMTexpat]

122. I'm very happy that MD stayed pretty well blue.

It's my voting residence after all and I have lots of family still there. I wasn't worried about Mikulski, but there are enough RWers in the western and southeastern parts of the state that I wasn't sure whether that snake Erlich might pull off another theft of the state house. To his credit, O'Malley took the challenge very seriously and campaigned very hard. I'm proud that he won.
I'm devastated about Feingold and Grayson. I was also hoping against hope that Scott McAdams would be seen for the outstanding candidate that he was, but AK voters have apparently decided that "Fool me once and fool me twice" don't apply to them. Maybe Murkowski will do the right thing and act on behalf of her state's well-being rather than continue to toady up to the Repubs - that didn't work out so well for her after all. And that is only if the write-ins actually have her name there ... that one will probably take a long time for the dust to settle. Miller won't go away easily.
But I am very happy about Harry Reid and the CO victories. I'm deliriously happy about CA - especially since the Repubs thought that they had the Senate seat and the state house there in the bag until very recently. Someone was saying to me today that CA often sets the national political trends. If that's true, perhaps we should get ready for a blue "tsuanmi" in 2012.
Ah well, one can always hope.

But yes, I will SO much enjoy making fun of Boner. YESSS!

[ChiciB1]

168. Well For Those Of Us Who Live In Florida, THIS Election Seems To Have

been one of the WORST I've EVER had to go through! And I can't just pick up and move some where else!

[BlueMTexpat]

186. Please know that my heart goes out to you!

I was stuck in the US during the 1980s - absolutely the worst decade of my life. Unfortunately, for the US, things have gone downhill since then.

[GeorgeGist]

123. Be mindful when sticking a boot in their ass ...

that's there's likely to be a bipartisan's head up it.

[GeorgeGist]

124. Be mindful when sticking a boot in their ass ...

that's there's likely to be a bipartisan's head up it.

[eomer]

125. Two years with nothing to show for it will sound pretty good after we've tried two years

of passing stuff that can get Republican support.

Most likely the only thing he could get passed would be stuff we're opposed to, like dismantling Social Security, repealing Health Insurance reform, repealing credit reform, etc.

Can you think of anything that Republicans will vote for and that's better than nothing?

[docvet]

126. omg!

Go ahead and paint rainbows and stars in the sky, but the reality of the situation is that both parties are pro-corporations and anti-labor! Not even 24 hours after the election Obama is already stating that he will compromise on the tax cuts. LOL You cant see that this was the plan all along? Pro-war, anti-labor, pro-corporations! Fascists all of them and you guys want to continue playing team sport politics? 2012 whatever! Wake up for god's sake! There are homeless and starving children out there! Unemployment and underemployment are grossly misrepresented in those statistics some here spout all the time! Enought of the right-left paradigm! Can you see we've been had? I read here people calling them "those idiots in washington"...idiots?! WE ARE THE IDIOTS! They are VERY smart CRIMINALS! The only responsibility we carry is to open our eyes and admit we've been swindled for decades and must not have it any longer. THEY are responsible for the misery, deaths and illness! No negotiating with big pharma? Mandated for profit insurance (not healthcare)? Trillions for war and wall street? As you read this, people keep applauding them! This is insanity! Madness, i swear!

Sorry for the rant, I just cant take reading all these feel-good posts when the reality of the situation is so evident.

[KeyserSoze87]

127. Here is my prediction for 2012...

Right now, Obama's approval rating is identical to both Clinton and Reagan's at the end of their second years. And much like Clinton and Reagan, Obama was elected during a severe economic downturn, and suffered heavy losses in the midterm elections because of that. And guess what? The economy recovered after both midterms, and both won second terms by a landslide. The more I look at Obama's position, the more convinced I am he will be reelected. He's an intelligent guy, and I think he is perfectly capable of getting a second term. Just look at what he has done for his first two years as president. He's made more progress on healthcare reform than any other president in history. He bailed out both GM and Chrysler, therefore saving hundreds of thousands of jobs from being axed. He saved the economy, which is now growing again (albeit modestly) rather than contracting at a record-breaking 6.4 percent when he took office. He made us go from losing about 800,000 payrolls a month to having healthy private sector growth for nine (soon to be ten) months in a row. And finally, he has created more private jobs so far this year than George Bush did during his entire eight-year period as president. If Obama can do exactly as he as has done for the past two years, then things will be better than ever in 2012. Despite that he has disappointed us in some aspects, I KNOW he can get reelected, and I will continue to be optimistic about 2012. I think in the next presidential election, he'll absolutely DESTROY his Republican opponent (Not unlike how Reagan won in 1984), whoever it may be, and with that, the Tea Party will collapse, the deficit will be greatly reduced, and America will be headed towards it's greatest economic expansion ever, greater even than the one that was seen during the Clinton years. Now, I could be wrong. The Republicans could very well win in 2012 (Hopefully that won't happen, because if it does, the economy may never recover). But our goal is possible! We just need to continue to have faith, be optimistic, tell everyone we know to vote in the next presidential election, and if we do it right, the Democrats will once again have the upper hand, and America will be back on the path to prosperity.

[Dystopian]

128. How bizarre.....

Like reading MSM...
I was going to post without reading the replies, but I scrolled down.
Did you read rug's post?
Sorry, Skinner...there's an elephant in the room.
Open your eyes.
$$$$$

"I am a strong supporter of President Obama, I think he has amassed an impressive record of accomplishments, and overall I think he's done a great job under very difficult circumstances. But I don't think he is particularly good at tapping into people's anger, or understanding their feelings that they have not been treated fairly. This might not have been such a problem if it weren't for the unique circumstances of this economic crisis."

What to do think feeds this 'economic crisis'?

Answer: MIC
Very mainstream.


peace~

[Haole Girl]

130. Great post

Thank you. I'm going to hold onto the hope that the economy will get better on its own.

I wonder, sometimes, if one day President Obama will look back & realize he was naïve where Republicans are concerned.

[Cognitive_Resonance]

132. Nice post. Hope everyone stays positive and works together for a better future. Democrats have a

strong hand holding the Senate and Presidency. Don't underestimate Pres. Obama.

[Samantha]

137. Thank you for your candor, Skinner

Whether one has liked or disliked Obama's policies, it seems clear he did as good of a job that could have been done under the circumstances. Imagine for a moment if McCain had won the 2008 Presidential election. Imagine Sarah Palin sitting in the Oval Office (or anywhere near it). Occasionally, I have looked around to see if there was anyone I would have preferred to see sitting in Obama's chair at the time he took office. There was and is no one (although now Feingold is available!). Overall, and under the circumstances, he did a hell of a great job. I, for one, thank him.

The thing that stabs me in the heart (aside from Feingold's loss) is listening to the increased air time the Republicans have already started getting, and hearing Mitch McConnell, Boehner and tea party candidates no less speaking "on behalf of the American people" and/or broadcasting messages to Obama they are now supposedly now empowered to deliver "on behalf of the American people." How arrogant and how presumptuous they sound. I hope DU joins in making it clear to the American public and the Republican party, we as proud American Democrats shall speak for ourselves.

Sam

[femrap]

141. Try living in Ohio....

with some of the stupidest 'people' in the world....OK...KY is a close second.

And we're always thankful for Mississippi when it comes to any polls about anything.

You sit there in DC with intelligent people and whine 'oh, it's not fun.'

Come out here and live with this shit. Dumb as dirt!

I need to move.

[ChiciB1]

170. Well. We Need Tourists Down Here In Florida... Like To Come Down

HERE for a while? Good deals on houses, very cheap and the sea food industry isn't doing all that well either. In fact, as a Floridian, you won't find me eating ANY seafood that I KNOW came from the Gulf! That's truly sad because my husband loves to fish. I won't even cook it for him.

He just throws them back anyway! This state thrives on tourists, we'll see how this season goes. I WOULD be nice to see a lot of them come down. I have 5 acres I NEED to sell, but at the prices being offered I'll try to hang on and pay the taxes for as long as I can. It's paid for, but I could use the money if I could sell it at a decent price.

[donheld]

143. "In hindsight, I think we might not have done so badly

in this election if President Obama and the Democrats had done more to improve the economy for regular Americans."

Will Obama even pay attention to that lesson?

[HuckleB]

146. I just saw a thread regarding election rigging.

I'm too buzzed to read it, but here's something to think about, sans any evidence whatsoever.

Oregon, which is not anywhere near as liberal people think, has a vote by mail system, so no Diebold or what have you. Oregon retained all its Dem reps, its Dem Senator and its Dem governor.

Anyone else for some conspiracy theories in regard to the rest of the country?

:shrug:

Yeah, I'm :beer:

[Divine Discontent]

147. imagine having to sit through Florida's returns at a county election party... many got drunk.

[mzmolly]

148. "At least we have John Boehner and the Republicans to kick around for a while."

Yes, and hopefully America will join us. ;)

I agree with your assessment. "It's the economy stupid." :hi:

[akbacchus_BC]

149. No we do not have Boehner to kick around on here. Wish you would

respect us more who contribute to this site. For me, it is the best and I contribute! Your way of banning people is not right! There I said it, now it is up to you if am not qualified to be on your site!

[mogster]

150. Agree

Hope the negative focus shifts from Democrats to Republicans. In many ways politics has become assymmetric 'warfare', where one side has no rules and can do anything while the other is trying to play by the book to restore confidence in politicians/system. The only reason they get away with this is the mainstream media bias and lack of ability to dig into the reality below the spin. And also, I'd say, to connect yesterday with today and make a link between the contemporary and the near past.
That Obama is a consensus builder should surprise nobody because of who he is, and what he represents IMO.

[lillypaddle]

151. It's not republicans that we're kicking around now

from the looks of the threads and posts, it's still Obama & the Dems. Gleefully, too, I might add.

[Rhiannon12866]

152. K&R! Thank you for weighing in on all this...

We could use a voice of reason. At least the Republicans have finally stopped blaming everything on Bill Clinton... :(

[deacon]

153. Well, the GOP play hardball, so he better do a 180 fast or he will look extremely weak. He needs to

move to the left or he will be crushed in the 2012 elections.

[deacon]

154. I have to add that the only way to fight against the money bags is to move left.

He needs his base because the only way you can compete against this kind of money is with votes.

[shaayecanaan]

155. I disagree on a couple of points...

I think healthcare is a very big issue. Americans pay twice as much as the Brits and nearly three times as much as the Japanese. Push through universal health care and suddenly 8% of the GDP is freed up for other consumer spending. It would make for a much stronger economy.

To be fair, Obama never held himself out as being revolutionary on healthcare. His platform position was to the right of both Edwards and Clinton. Fat lot of good it did him, he took the full hit for being a leftist demagogue anyway. The more he tried to appease the worse it got. As it stands, his healthcare package prevents Insurers from discriminating on the basis of a prior condition, and from imposing spending caps. Its strange to think that that, more or less, could be his legacy, but there you are.

Increasing the stimulus is tricky. As Obama remarked, these days there is no such thing as a shovel ready project. You used to be able to employ half the country building Hoover dams. These days they all need hi-visibility vests and a six-month shortcourse to learn how to swing a hammer. The degree of inflexibility in the labour market makes it very difficult to dramatically contain unemployment with stimulus packages. The Republicans actually have a point when they say that tax rebates are often the best kind of stimulus, as long as they are directed at working people, who generally can be relied upon to spend their money.

Sovereign debt is also an issue. The US is already on shaky enough ground as far as its deficit is concerned. Substantially increasing it is a very serious proposition.

My guess is that Obama will probably concentrate more on foreign policy now that he is hobbled at home. He has passed financial reform and healthcare, which were probably the two big items on his checklist. He sure isn't going to get much out of the rest of his term. A pity, really.

[madokie]

156. From this old okies eyes this is what I see

Obama never had a chance in that the people who control the jobs for the most part didn't want him to succeed. What I'm saying is that they weren't worried about making any more money momentarily as they made a shitpot full while the last two despicable characters were in the whitehouse so they could wait this one out. The big money man doesn't want any controls such as environmental, labor etc put on them and all they seen when Obama came into office was more of that. For the most part the environment and labor cost is why they've shipped all our jobs overseas to begin with. We've got to do something that will put controls on these large corporations that won't allow them to ship our jobs off shore. As it stands today we don't have a shadow of a chance as the large corporations have control over our congress critters and our supposedly 'free' press, and I mean all of them save for a few. I'm not sure an all out uprising isn't in store if we're to ever get a handle on this bad situation we find ourselves in today. Getting us to where we are today has been a concerted effort by the big money man for as long as I can remember, way past Nixon, Johnson and Kennedy.

[Politicub]

157. +1 - If anything good comes of this, it will be giving the dems a rallying point

We need the same lessons over and over again, it seems.

I hope that Obama channels a little more FDR than President Clinton over these next two years. We can use a little of both, though.

[rainlillie]

160. I agree.. Can't wait for the pity party to cease.

"It'll be refreshing to see people on DU going after Republicans a little more often, instead of constantly attacking President Obama. Or each other."

Exactly!

[SemperEadem]

161. the problem is that Obama and the Dems took for granted

that the machine Howard Dean built for them during the previous election cycle survived the tear down that Emmanuel and Kaine have done to it since Dean was replaced. It didn't. It collapsed from neglect and disregard and over-blown pride. Also, really wasn't the democratic electorate it was the so-called "independents", who never really were progressively minded to begin with, who threw back in with their ideologues on the right after giving Obama about 6 hours to fix things.

His administration so far has not done much to distinguish themselves from a moderate rethuglican administration. While he's done quite a lot, the problem is that he had a boat-load of political capital going in he could have spent that would have resulted in bold policy being able to get through. But he was too busy trying to control the perception machine. "We have to turn ourselves inside out for cooperation". Man! You're the effin' president of the US of fucking A!!! Fuck those who want to obstruct! Embarrass them and keep it moving.

There is a lot of anger and resentment towards whose side he's chosen to stand on--despite what he says on the campaign trail, what has fallen out in experience for everyone is that he tacked too far to the right e.v.e.r.y. time there was a choice to stand with those who put him in office. Plain and simple. Why he did that is anyone's guess, but I don't really see him as "getting it" between now and 11/12. I really don't. To paraphrase an old R&B tune: "if he don't get it by now, he will never ever ever get it.. oooooooohhhhhh".

The time is ripe for true progressives to identify the viability of our next candidate for office if the president is intent upon keeping his back turned and his ears closed to those who put him where he finds himself today. It's pretty much too late now for him to do anything. Maybe he's going to use this time to outright expose the thugs and their agenda--I don't know. I just don't see how his strategy is paying dividends for our country, for progressives and for people who believe in rule of law, justice, fairness and equality.

[peace frog]

162. You think the election wasn't much *fun*?

Wait 'til you see the new Republican House: investigations, hearing, impeachment proceedings...they're coming, and quickly.
How about THAT for *fun*? :puke:

[Bette Noir]

163. Yeah, right. The Republicans are going to start working with the President.

I'd ask what you've been smoking, but that proposition went down.

[lunasun]

165. media already pushing this

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/04/poll.2012.candidates/?hpt=T2

[DFW]

166. Skinner, this is a first for me:

I think you've got it all wrong. That's a first.

The economy was ALREADY a mess when Obama took office. The ones that were disappointed when he didn't cure cancer
within 48 ours of taking office are a small minority.

I think the reason, pure and simple, was the Tsunami of dirty money paying for negative advertising around the country.
A quarter billion dollars alone that is halfway traceable, probably twice or three times that that we will never find.
This plus the billion plus dollar advantage of Fox Noise 24/7.

We are a country that has our TVs and radios on a LOT of the time. The lower the level of education, the more they are
on and Republicans have not exactly made education their highest priority.

If the United States had had public financing of elections, as in most of Europe, and Democrats and Republicans had been
on equal financial footing, we would still be basking in our unassailable congressional majorities. Instead, we have
billionaires owning polluting industries now paying for their very own Senators and Congressmen, so that they will
never be investigated.

The "Citizens United" decision, implemented by the evil but far-sighted Karl Rove, changed the playing field by tilting
it rightward. He was in on the selection of Roberts and Alito to the Supreme Court. Rove knew the country was "mad as
hell" at the Republicans after what Bush Lite and friends did to the country, and that they were toast in 2008. But he
also knew that the American electorate has one VERY short memory, and that with unlimited legal brainwashing, they could
be made to forget why the Democrats had such a landslide in the first place. All he needed was some way to make illegal
campaign financing legal. I'm sure he grilled Roberts and Alito on this question before their names even came up before
the Senate Judiciary Committee. Once he got his boys in place on the bench, all he had to do was arrange for the Citizens
United case to be brought as a lawsuit in court. The outcome was assured the minute it got to the Supremes. All eight
justices voted predictably (Thomas counts as no vote, and Scalia counts as two votes, since Thomas votes however Scalia
wants--as soon as Scalia pokes him awake).

Once that vote was decided, so was the outcome of this election. the economy was a nice talking point, but America voted
in a team dedicated to making it worse. The country had to be talked into that one by someone. And so it was.

[67 Mercury]

167. Notably absent from your post

is any mention of the continuation of the wars. No mention of the occupation of Iraq, ongoing no matter how it was re-branded.

No mention of the continue illegal war on Afghanistan.

No mention of the continued increase in military budget.

No mention of how these connect to the economy here at home.

No mention from Obama and the Dems on any of this.

No mention from you on any of this.

Remarkably and loudly absent from the discussion are such issues. Why is that?

What do you call someone who wishes to build consensus with proto-fascists?

[On the Road]

169. Agree on All Points, Skinner

I would feel better about it if it seemed the administration were learning something.

Now, however, there is cause for concern about what else the national party will give away, beginning with the Bush tax cut expiration.

[jillan]

171. I think the Dems lost because their messaging sucks. Why weren't they pointing out that the Repugs

want to take away Social Security? If every Dem that was running for office repeated that every day, we would've gotten the seniors vote.

[subterranean]

176. Harry Reid's messaging didn't suck.

His ads painted Sharron Angle as an extremist (which she is) using her own words, including her stated desire to "phase out Social Security." He also didn't run away from health care reform. Maybe that's why he won. Well, that and Sharron Angle's own mouth on the rare occasions she deigned to speak to the media.

[RaleighNCDUer]

172. The problem re the bailouts can be summed up with a quote from the

FBI guy in 'National Treasure': "Somebody's got to go to prison."

It's fine and well to save the economy, but when Wall Street steals billions in rigged derivitives, collapsing the economy, and then is bailed out with billions more of taxpayer dollars - SOMEBODY'S got to go to prison, not collect multi-million dollar bonuses.

That did not happen and does not look to be forthcoming.

It should not be ignored just because it's complicated.

[grahamhgreen]

173. Even if the bank bailouts were necessary, they never whould have been done without pre-conditions,

or breaking up these monstrous institutions that allow houses to go empty while the homeless wander the streets.

It's akin to being in the boxing ring, and propping up your opponent, then giving him brass knuckles to continue the fight, when you had him on the ropes.

harry Reid should know this.

[OhioBlue]

175. "It does not help that Wall Street - - the people who got us into

this mess in the first place seem to be doing fine. In fact, they seem to be doing better than ever".

No kidding. They will be sitting in the Ohio Governor's mansion in a couple of months and in charge of Ohio's economic development as Kasich is gonna privatize ODOD.

Nope. It wasn't much fun... and it isn't gonna be much fun for the next 4 years under that douche bag as Gov.

[Aristus]

179. We're going to be fine. And we will come back. Thank you for everything, Skinner.

:thumbsup:

On to 2012 and President Obama's second term!...

[glowing]

180. 2 out of 3 isn't bad.... Bud gridlock here we come. The president better tap into

The anger and use his bully pulpit or we are in for a rough ride in 2 yrs.

[YOY]

181. Obama knew and still knows what he's got to do.

It's what he was elected to do.

Question is, if he's gonna do it.

I doubt it.

and if you have to ask what it is, then I'll just let you post more of those rediculous "Action Liberal" editorials that basically insult anyone who has ever taken PoliSci 101.

[IDHow]

182. Obama should have been more like Bush, lol

and just not cared what other people think and just go for it, with a real progressive agenda.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

183. It wasn't fun, and it also wasn't a surprise. The steady

march toward the cliff should have been obvious to everyone.

[Hawkowl]

184. No chance of the economy improving

There really is a slim to none chance of the economy improving on its own. The offshoring policies, the tax policies, the free trade policies, and the turning a blind eye to monopolism across all industries, guarantee this economy will not improve. It will be up to the Democrats to hang this tire around the necks of the rethuglicans and set it on fire.

Bipartisanship, accommodation, and basic namby pamby platitudes about working together will simply make the Democrats led by Mr. Obama, as equally responsible to the economic disaster that continues to unfold.

[truedelphi]

185. Skinner, I think if you took the time to read the posts over in the economics forum, you would

Quickly change your mind about the Bailouts.

No one who has truly studied the Bailouts, like Autorank, GirlGoneMad, Dixiegrrrl, et al, approve of them... These three people and others have been on top of understanding this notion of Bailouts. (And BTW those in the know understand that Fall of 2008, Obama rounded up the Dem votes in the Senate, just as McCain rounded up the Republican votes in the Senate. So it IS HIS FRIGGIN' BAILOUT!)

And the reason for the Bailout disapproval is in part this one: the Bailout money went first to paying off the still unwinding derivatives, CDS's and what have you at the Largest Financial Firms. An analogy would be if you offered a blood transfusion to someone still hemorrhaging, then the blood needed to save the person would be an immense amount of blood, whereas if you apply a tourniquet and then apply the transfusion, you would need only several quarts at the most. There were several mechanisms by which we could have stopped the bleeding at the Top Financial Firms - Ireland was smart enough to manage some of them. Our great minds in the Halls OF Congress and the WH (And again, it involves both parties) didn't care to. And CNN's Bailout tracker has reported the money offered to the Top Firms is in excess of eleven trillion bucks! Which we don't happen to have.

Anyway I know you have many duties related to the running of DU, but if you can spare the time, you would be offered a wealth of pertinent information on the current destruction of our economy by both parties for the benefit of the Privileged, that is out there for the world to see on account of the existence of DU, and its excellent economy forum.

[CommonSensePLZ]

187. Nice post nt

[political_Dem]

188. Thank you for your erudite message.

I needed that--especially after a trying day. :(

Your words give me a lot to think about under the circumstances.

[David Zephyr]

189. People do stupid things in bad times. Look at Germany in the 1930's.

Obama rightfully deserves some blame, but when times are bad (and they are), a minority of people can manipulate a majority by playing on their angst.

All things considered, the GOP's victories were by small margins and they will be in trouble in 2012 when a larger electorate turns out.