Looks like some of the whites here on DU are striking back....

[trumad]

So white folks--- if black folks tell you that Bidens comments were offensive, are you still going to tell them they're not?

It sure looks to me as I read the internets that indeed they are offensive to African-Americans.

[graywarrior]

1. I have no idea what he said, but he offends me anyhow.

[originalpckelly]

2. It's offensive, and I can't understand why more people don't give a damn...

or dismiss it.

[trumad]

4. I'm getting a kick at the white DUers defending him...

when it's clear African-Americans are offended.

[fooj]

16. I'm caucasian and I'm not defending him.

:P

[MUAD_DIB]

19. How do you know if they are white?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

43. Well they're obviously NOT black or another minority.

They would be able to understand otherwise.

AND they aren't a white person who has a lot of exposure to different races. I'm white and I learned that lesson a long time ago. You have to go out of your way a little bit to understand.

[piedmont]

25. How do you know the race of anyone on DU?

[Karenina]

50. Quite easily by their references,

use of personal pronouns and "opinions."

[piedmont]

58. So basically from your knowledge of stereotypes.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "use of personal pronouns?" What personal pronouns are exclusively (or even predominantly) used by one ethnic group?

[Karenina]

70. You blew it in your subject line

and don't even realize it.

[piedmont]

81. You're right-- I don't "realize it"...

because I don't know what you're talking about. Please explain further for those of us who aren't psychic.

[Karenina]

84. Sorry. I'm a lil ol' black lady

who has seen and experienced much in her day, whose patience has worn VERY THIN and who has NO TIME for your arrogant, supremacist nonsense.

[piedmont]

86. ????

Arrogant? Maybe, sometimes-- but generally I try my best to convey my point in a polite, civil tone.
As for your supremacism charge, show me anything I have posted that was supremacist.

[motocicleta]

91. Dude? White guy here. Need to tell ya

you're behind the eight ball. Sometimes you just have to be quiet and learn instead of pushing to have your error explained to you. Now is one of those times.

[piedmont]

93. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

I asked a legitimate question in post #25. It certainly does not warrant being called a "supremacist." Nothing I have ever posted here or anywhere else comes even close to being "supremacist" in nature. You know why? Because I'm not a supremacist.

If you have anything to contribute besides vague "you've made an error" statements I'd love to read it.

[Karenina]

94. Hey Piedmont! You have 666 posts registered!!!

It's OK. You'll slide into the 700 Club and perhaps come out of it more aware. You've caught me in a generous mood.

Trumad in his inimitable fashion, is challenging the dominant community on this board, particularly those who wish to minimize the reactions of the few of us "of colour" here who find Biden's remarks less than stellar.

You ask, How do you know the race of a poster. I explain that it's by the references they make. You ASSume I mean "stereotypes." NO, dear one, I mean EXPERIENCE. I could take you to a family gathering and announce we'd discovered a common ancestor. You would be welcomed with open arms and would see people in the room who look like you. Can YOU say the same?

No, you don't "realize it" as you ASSume the dominant position of the "majority" that exists in your own head who are not psychic. Well, I would never expect you to be. You don't need to be psychic or even sensitive to or aware of others' sensibilities. THAT is your SUPREMACIST white privilege shining through. Now, please do excuse me while I go get my sunglasses. :smoke:

[piedmont]

97. ok

"You ask, How do you know the race of a poster. I explain that it's by the references they make. You ASSume I mean "stereotypes." NO, dear one, I mean EXPERIENCE.

As I asked you earlier, please share with us those references and personal pronouns that enable you to KNOW anyone's race on DU. Not 70% certainty, not 90% certainty, but 100%. And by the way, people often build up their stereotypes through EXPERIENCE. That doesn't make them anything more than stereotypes.


"I could take you to a family gathering and announce we'd discovered a common ancestor. You would be welcomed with open arms and would see people in the room who look like you. Can YOU say the same?"

Yes, I can. Assume much?



"No, you don't "realize it" as you ASSume the dominant position of the "majority" that exists in your own head who are not psychic. "

Huh? So you think I said the majority is not psychic? You think the majority is psychic?



"THAT is your SUPREMACIST white privilege shining through."

Again-- point to an example of my making a supremacist statement. Ever.

[Karenina]

99. I LOVE white boys.

:loveya:

[piedmont]

101. That's really all you've got?

Give up and call the other poster a white boy?

[trumad]

100. It's easy for me to see the race of DUers

because I can see through the pipes that run the internet. For instance---you're as white as Casper.

[piedmont]

105. Well, yeah, there's the pipes method.

For instance---you're as white as Casper.

And I make no secret of it if asked. But I've only asked the question of how one knows another DUer's race. I've heard references, personal pronoun usage, and "opinions." I'll acknowledge that "opinions" could be a pretty good one, depending on the subject and overtness of the stated opinion. But the others seem like stereotypes. If they are something other than stereotype, what are they?

[Dorian Gray]

60. I've only seen a handful of people defending him.

I'm white and I've posted nothing but disgust for his words. He's awful!

[Hosnon]

87. Perhaps those defending him are trolls trying (and succeeding) to divide us?

99% of DUers think his remarks were inappropriate. Make a note of those that have defended him if you want but I vote that we move on to other things.

[BayCityProgressive]

88. He is a dem

He could killa baby and some dems would defend him. Just like some defend all the DLC shit heads no matter how far right they go.

[kiahzero]

3. Oh, please.

:eyes:

[trumad]

6. Yeah--you're one of the great defenders.

[kiahzero]

15. I guess I have to take Falwell's word on what's offensive to Christians, then?

I know, I know, it's not fair to bring logic to this discussion.

[Missy M]

18. What is the logic in your statement....

and what does Falwell have to do with this discussion?

[piedmont]

30. One christian speaking for all christians nt

[kiahzero]

31. I'll spell it out for you.

Argumentum ad absurdum.

Assume the statement is true: "As a white person, if black folks tell you that Biden's comments were offensive, you must believe them."
Isolate the principle: "As a non-X person, if X people tell you that a statement is offensive, you must believe them."
Apply the principle: "As a non-Christian, if Christian people tell you that a statement is offensive, you must believe them."
Therefore, we must believe Falwell and his ilk when he insists that harmless statements are "offensive to Christians."
As this result is absurd, the original statement must also be absurd.

[trumad]

104. That's not logic... that's stupidity

nice straw man though.

[Solon]

5. In the context of Biden and Bush, articulate seems to mean "sounding white"...

I can understand why many African Americans would be offended by that. I'm reminded of the Chris Rock skit on Powell thinking of running for president back in the mid-90s.

[Lucky Luciano]

20. Nahhh

Black candidates in the past have been Jesse Jackson, who is certainly interested in helping black people, but he does have a lot of opportunistic tendencies. Al Sharpton can actually make some good points, but his credibility overall is zero because of the Tawanna Brawley fiasco he played a big role in.

[Raydawg1234]

42. Are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton not articulate???

[Solon]

44. Uhm....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=94469&mesg_id=94767

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=94469&mesg_id=94807

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3088427&mesg_id=3088890

Remember, I said in CONTEXT with HOW they spoke of it.

[Raydawg1234]

61. I wasn't really responding to your statement as much as I was introducing

Jackson and Sharpton for discussion.

[bvar22]

90. Don't forget Carol Mosely Braun and Shirley Chilsom.

Both educated and articulate.
AND clean too.

[Catherine Vincent]

7. flame-baiting?

[trumad]

12. Nope---

just pissed at whitey.

[hootinholler]

80. How enlightening. n/t

[Missy M]

8. As well they should be.....

I still find it hard to believe he even made the comments. Not very presidential.

[marlakay]

9. After I heard he like Gonzalez

and voted for him, he's down in my book.

[trumad]

10. Here's Steve Gillard--- one of the best bloggers on the net and an African-American

This is how long their weiners are


Biden Unbound: Lays Into
Clinton, Obama, Edwards
Loquacious Senator, Democratic Candidate on Hillary: ‘Four of 10 Is the Max You Can Get?’ Edwards ‘Doesn’t Know What He’s Talking About’
By Jason Horowitz

.................
Mr. Biden is equally skeptical—albeit in a slightly more backhanded way—about Mr. Obama. “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” he said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”


Dear Sen Biden.

Sen. Obama is the "first mainstream African-American who is articulate"?

I would expect a gradute of Columbia and Harvard Law who was a former law professor to be articulate. His race should have nothing to do with that.

Would you say that John Lewis is inarticulate? Or Keith Ellison?

Senator, anyone running for office is by definition articulate. Unless you can't see past skin color..

Are Albert Wynn and Maxine Waters dirty and dull?

Senator, the fact that you rely on stereotypes, not once but on several occasions, should render you unfit to be President.

Labels: Biden, elections, race, washington

posted by Steve @ 2:31 PM
66 Comments 2:31 PM

[Beaverhausen]

11. OH that's rich. What about all the comments that women find offensive?

Like certain words that some people just can't help themselves from using to describe women.

[meldroc]

13. Yeah, Biden's comments are really condescending...

Oh, no, there's no such thing as closet-racism...

Somebody send Biden to the penalty box with Lieberman!

Truly an embarrassment to the Democratic party and white males like me that despise racism.

[ddbaj]

14. It's sickening. n/t

[mmonk]

17. Sounds offensive to me (and I'm Caucasian)

but can't attest as to exactly what he meant. But IMO, it should sink his political chances quite a bit.

[WI_DEM]

21. Biden's choice of words was ill considered, however, I don't think he's a racist

and frankly, his comments about Obama don't compare to Jesse Jackson's use of "hymie-town" in 1984 when referring to NYC. He didn't leave the race and I even had the honor of voting for him in the primary. I don't think Biden should leave the race over his comments either.

[951-Riverside]

22. I'll tell ya these blacks are so thin skinned

...OTOH if he directed his comments towards those of fairer skin & non-african decent (ie Hispanics, Asians, Jews, Native Americans, Indians, Arabs, non-african muslims, Europeans, etc) the RACIST! should apologize immediately and attend some sort of rehab!!!!!!

:eyes:

[Lost-in-FL]

34. Excuse me but...

Some Hispanics are African decent. We are a mix culture from European countries, Africans, Natives, etc.

[951-Riverside]

37. Fair Skin & Non-African decent covers it n/t

:eyes:

[Lost-in-FL]

48. Sorry but...

As a Hispanic I embrace my black roots. If something offends an African American it offends me. SO there's no need for the :eyes:

Peace :hi:

[951-Riverside]

59. Re: If something offends an African American it offends me.

and it should but sadly a large majority do not share your views when it comes down to racism against Blacks.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[shadowknows69]

23. I can see why it would be offensive

Joe, Joe, Joe, you just ate a huge piece of foot on this one dude.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Ok I have yet to read the comment

but if the comment was offensive, well IT WAS offensive

[AspenRose]

26. What else is new?

It's the "Tar Baby" controversy revisited.

I give up.

[cynatnite]

27. Flame bait n/t

[tkmorris]

28. This white boy sure as hell won't defend Biden's remarks

The man's an ass, plain and simple. I don't have to be black to know that.

[me b zola]

29. Many whites are offended by Biden's statement...

...but it is really sad that a handful of so of DUers would foo-foo such an awful statement. Geez, it really does seem as though we are going back in time. :(

[kerry-is-my-prez]

53. It's surprising that progressive Dems don't know better....

I remember that Howard Dean confederate flag thing and there were TONS of people not getting why that flag is so hurtful and that it was a mistake.

[uppityperson]

32. I have been having a problem wtih this post for a bit.

Start to reply, delete, go away, return, repeat again. If a comment was offensive, it was offensive. I didn't hear it. But this post is also offensively racist. Now, am I a white folk or not? Or are your comments only aimed towards "white folks" that are defending whatever Biden said that was offensive?

[Karenina]

69. I don't understand your confusion.

Trumad, being true to his in-your-face Trumad self is simply asking that if black people find Biden's comments offensive are there still those willing to insist to THEM that they didn't hear what they heard. How would you define the issue? :shrug:

[uppityperson]

78. Thanks for the reply.

I thought of deleting what I wrote, again, since I still am not sure what bothers me. It is calling out the "white folks" to not tell "black folks" that comments were offensive. I know that who a person is can help determine if a comment is offensive or not, and that the color of our skin has an impact from how we were raised (community, prejudicial stuff), but it seems that an unthoughtful offensive comment should just be seen as such, no matter if those saying yes or no are "white" or "black".

What if I were black and not offended, but other people who were black were offended? Would the same question be asked? It should, though not phrased in the "white folks" "black folks" way.

For the record, I am not white, but a mixture, though am categorized as white.

As far as what Trumad says, what you are saying he says, if anyone finds the comments offensive, I'll go with them being offensive, no matter the persons color. If I do not understand the offense I am willing to listen to an explanation of why it is offensive, AND will agree it is offensive if people are offended.

Again, thanks for the reply, am trying to figure my reasoning, my thoughts out.

[hootinholler]

82. I'll sign on to that. n/t

[Karenina]

95. Uppikins...

You have just touched the Holy Grail of the conflict. Whites insist upon their "right" to define the terms. Those terms will, of course, indemnify them from any overt hostility committed. Often, for those of us on the receiving end of racism, the original offense pales in comparison to the denial that follows. You say a person of colour can be "helpful" in the determination of what is or is not racist but seem unwilling to concede that those of us affected are in a better position to DEFINE THE TERMS. I DO understand why that is threatening.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

33. It's that attitude "We're supposed to tell YOU how you're supposed to feel."

They don't get that if someone doesn't like being called or labelled with something that they should have the tact or the empathy to listen to them.

In addition, they don't get that there is a hurtful stereotype out there that assumes that any black person is NOT articulate - and that it's a surprise when they are articulate.

In additon, it also says that you're only articulate when you sound like a white person.

These are obviously people who don't have a lot of black friends.

[devilgrrl]

35. I haven't been following what "HairPlugz" Biden said....

surely it was something stupid.

[Horse with no Name]

36. Bingo

A bunch of fat-assed corporate TV shills say it isn't offensive to them--guffaw guffaw guffaw--so it must be so.
I'm a middle-aged white woman in the middle of a red county in a red state...and I found it offensive.

[More Than A Feeling]

38. White guy here, Biden was being racist, and the shame is he probably

doesn't realize why what he said was wrong. He didn't learn after the 7-11 thing, and unfortunately, he might not learn this time, either. We'll know by how long he remains in the race after this. If he has any shame, he'll drop out.

[Bunny]

39. Yep, the whites get to define what blacks are allowed to be offended by.

The worst thing about this is not the people who genuinely don't understand but are trying to figure it out. No, the worst thing is the number of DUers who are ADAMANT that nobody could possibly be offended,and can't understand why everyone just doesn't blindly accept their opinion. They are so clueless.

[AspenRose]

46. That's because they are using logic to try to make sense of something

that isn't logical. Racism is not logical.

[Bunny]

72. Well, I'm not sure that I would call it logic. I'd call it purposeful

obtuseness, with a whole lot of arrogance on top.

Look, it's just not that hard to figure out why Biden's comments are a problem, if one truly wants to understand. That's the purposeful obtuseness. The arrogance comes in when they INSIST on telling people that they have no right to be offended.

And yes, racism is not logical. But neither are they.

[AspenRose]

85. You should trademark that: "Purposeful obtuseness."

I like it.

And yes it is RAMPANT on DU with regards to black issues.

[MuseRider]

40. Biden IS offensive.

If someone who is being spoken about tells me that what was said is offensive I go with that. I may have already thought so but if not I will ask why. If more people asked why there might not be so many knee-jerk defensive behaviors. JMHO.

[stillcool]

41. I find his comments...

very revealing. He obviously has a very high opinion of himself, a tad condescending...and doesn't get out much. The "first-main-steam African American who is articulate, bright and clean"..sounds like a throw-back to cotton-picking days..something out of 'Gone With the Wind', or maybe Ed Sullivan not wanting to get too close. I would hope that he not try to defend, explain, or apologize, as there is no point. I don't usually like to take a snapshot and judge a person from the image, but that statement speaks volumes. But then, I'm white...so I could be reading this all wrong.

[Lost-in-FL]

45. It depends...

on Bidens home square footage.

[951-Riverside]

47. ...

:rofl:

[Mojambo]

49. He wasn't a viable candidate before this and he certainly won't be after.

The sooner an opportunistic, establishment slug like Biden leaves the Presidential primary discussion, the better.

It would certainly be a loss to the credit card companies, but I'm sure they'll find another candidate.

[bluerum]

51. They are offensive to me. I am a 51 year old white boy. I think

that they were sexist and racist as well.

Not to mention personally offensive to the person he was speaking about.

What a pig.

[Kerry fan]

52. Any idiot knows that "clean" can mean many things.

To the recovering drug abuser - clean of drugs. Maybe not have had a shower in days, but "clean".

To the recovering alcoholic - clean of alcohol. Maybe not have had a shower in days, but "clean".

In that vein -

Can you think of one single politician today that is "cleaner" than Obama? The things they have tried to "dirty" him with, have fallen by the wayside. Their false accusations have not stuck.

Obama has come out of it all "clean as a whistle".

Yep, I would say that compared to most politicians, "Obama is clean".

[The Straight Story]

54. I wonder the reaction if I start a thread 'Looks like blacks on du....'

Probably very supportive I am sure.

[951-Riverside]

62. Go for it no one is stopping you n/t

[The Straight Story]

75. I wouldn't because it would feel too icky for me to do something like that

Give me a few more beers though and I might just whip up something :)

[tinfoilinfor2005]

55. I think Biden is on TDS tonight.

Should be interesting to watch.

[sniffa]

56. but you don't know what my peopLe have to go through

it's not easy being a white maLe. :cry:

[AspenRose]

57. What I find amazing

...is that within the past week, TWO racist swipes have been made at Obama (Rush Limbaugh and now Biden).

Yet we have Bill Richardson, a hispanic, running for president and I have YET to see anything of a negative racist nature thrown at him.

While it would definitely be wrong to be racist towards ANY candidate running for president, I have been asking myself, "why IS that?"

:shrug:

[sniffa]

63. front runner status?

couLd be any angLe.

[Karenina]

79. Check the NAME.

[crispini]

64. Not me!

:hi: Up to black folks to decide whether or not they are offensive comments.

[xultar]

65. Same thing happened with the isaiah washigton grey'

thread. I love it whe non gays tell gays what's offensive.

I also love it when white folk tell me what's offensive and non offensive to black folk.

:rofl:

[angstlessk]

66. I am white and my husband is black..and we agree..Biden just insulted

ALL blacks in America...by his statement he implies all blacks in congress are lacking at least one of the qualities he gives to Obama..

[Dorian Gray]

67. How many of the "whites" on the board have been defending

Biden's remarks? About five? Please. Most of us are disgusted, but being divisive here isn't going to make things better.

[helderheid]

68. They ARE offensive, whether he intended them to be or not! Not the first time either.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

74. You nailed it, helderheid.

[nam78_two]

92. "You CANNOT go into a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts without an Indian accent" NT

[Hosnon]

71. Flamebait and racist.

Or wait, are the "black folk" going to tell me what I am and am not offended by?

[shanti]

73. i'm siding with black people on this one

i'm white, and his comments were racist and offensive. it's one of those "things" that many, many whites just DO NOT GET, no matter how much you try to explain to them.

[ismnotwasm]

76. Outside looking in

Whites (I include myself) have no idea of the general sense of entitlement or privilege that goes with a simple skin color. Some of us especially turn a blind eye when it benefits us, although we'll scream bloody murder if we feel that sense of entitlement is threatened in any way (Reverse racism! we'll scream) The influence of institutionalized racism, which surrounds us-- is not seen -- as long as it's not obvious. Obvious racism, why, we'll jump on the righteous bandwagon, tsk tsking such blatant racist assholes. We might even write a LTTE or express our indignation in other ways. Most of us mean well.
So when blacks find something offensive that we DON'T understand--quite, many of us do the figurative scratching of the head and just "can't understand" Some whites feel the "playing ground" IS even, subtle and/or blatent (sometimes so blatent, whites don't really see it, and argue that it is NOT racism, it's a very odd reaction) racism isn't a factor in politics, all standards are the same, ie, dress, language, background, names,-- hairstyle even.

And while not all blacks agree on the depth or influence of this more subtle and insidious brand of racism, most certainly acknowledge that it IS there, unlike certain whites, who will say it is not.

[trumad]

96. excellent post

[kitty1]

77. My first impressions were that Biden was offensive and patronizing

after reading his comments. That's how I took it. He makes it sound as if it's an unusual occurrence to find upstanding intelligent black people in the community.
It sounded pretty biased and ignorant to me.
Mr Biden, may I introduce you to Mr. Nelson Mandela. You may have heard of him The one time president of South Africa and a wonderful role model. Take some lessons from him Biden.

[tammywammy]

83. Using the word articulate in general isn't racist

But when you combine it with their race & the word clean, then it is racist. And given Biden's remarks in the past, I think what he said was incredibly racist.

[nam78_two]

89. How anyone can suggest Biden's remarks were inoffensive

is beyond me :eyes:.
I don't think "articulate" by itself is offensive when applied to anyone, but I just saw the text of his remarks and I thought they were offensive. "Clean"?? :wtf:..
He really isn't very bright.

[AbbyR]

98. Now I have to go find out what he said

so I can figure out if I ought to be mad. Back later.

[AbbyR]

102. OK, I'm back

I had already read what he said and had promptly attempted to forget it. My thoughts? Has that man gone totally over the edge? I live in the south, and a few years ago, there were billboards up about what a racist comment might be. One of them that I passed every day had some sort of quote about "But he's such an articulate black man." I'm not making this up. I cringed when I saw it and I can't believe anyone doesn't see that it's offensive.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

103. So folks--- if gays tell you that Washington's comments were offensive

So folks--- if gays tell you that Washington's comments were offensive, are you still going to tell them they're not?

It sure looks to me as I read the internets that indeed they are offensive to Gays.

-----------------------------------------------

By the way, trumad, I TOTALLY agree with you. I'm just drawing a parallel to those on this board who don't take up for gays too. Yes it is not on topic, but it it VERY much the same thing.

All minorities must unite against injustice! *Hugs*


Biden's statement hurt me.

[Subdivisions]

106. "...the whites..."? What the HELL is that supposed to mean? n/t

[The Straight Story]

107. Looks like some of the blacks here on DU are striking back....

So black folks--- if white folks tell you that Bidens comments weren't offensive, are you still going to tell them they're are?

Do I have to be offended at something because you are?

How about that CBC who won't let a white guy in - that offended me, and yet I was told I should not be offended.

Biden mentioned race?? How many people have not when noting Obama - and even when noting that this superbowl has black coaches. Sharpton and Jackson never stood a chance of winning, for the first time we do have a person of color who has the ability to win, and a fellow dem says as much and he is to be bashed for it??

:sarcasm: - yeah a lot of it here. And yet not all of it.

Ya wanna know what I was offended by?
Looks like some of the whites here on DU are striking back....


Me personally - I think Biden was pretty much on target. The first time I saw him when I was in Chicago, the day of the election. I thought to myself - this guy is gonna make it big. And what is wrong with pointing out his race? Don't we do that and more quite often? Hillary is a woman - seen that mentioned more than a few times. Obama is black - seen that more than a few times too.

WHY? The reason to me is the most simple one - white males have dominated the presidency and other things for a long time. It is rare indeed that we have two candidates - one a woman and one a black man - that have ever had such a good shot at winning. And THAT IS NEWS. It is progress.

Who have candidates of those qualifications been in the past? Well, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton come to mind - and they both have checkered pasts and just don't have the charisma that Obama does. It is the right time in this country for a major change.

HOW MANY PEOPLE HERE - talked about the fact that Pelosi was a woman??? How many people elsewhere made note of it?

We are making progress in this country, and now it is not simply people are voting based on sex/race they are seeing things in a whole new light.

I Don't care the sex or race of who our president is - but I do think it is worth celebrating that this damn country has finally turned a corner and that for once we might be picking a president based on their ideals and not because they fit the white mold that has been so present for so long.

Obama is the best black candidate we have had - he has the best shot at winning, he has charisma, he is indeed clean of the problems other candidates has, he is articulate - which we don't find in some of our candidates, and he does have star status. He has going for him everything that those that came before did not have (at least to many people).

That is not just news. It is progressive news. 46 years ago he with all his charm he would not have made it day one in this country if he decided to run.

And here we have a white guy, a fellow dem to boot, trying to say nice things about him and he gets slammed because he did not say it in the most PC way?

Maybe some people just want to be offended. Maybe some blacks fear that if he does indeed win then whites will say 'well, now you can quit your bitching about black people being kept down, they can become senators and even president, so out with affirmative action'

As a white guy I am offended you are offended. If a black guy had said the exact same words about Obama how would it be taken?

So yeah - biden has issues with filtering how he talks, he should know people will rush to judgment. Just like they did with Hillary and her joke and Kerry and his. Or the dean scream.

[pinto]

108. Locking.

Sorry for the delay here, but mod consensus is that this is inflammatory. We're locking.

Thanks for your consideration.