Can we please talk honestly?

[beforeyoureyes]

To be honest this lie is killing me...

It is killing all of us. Our spirit, our hope, our belief in possibility, and our ability to have any sense of empowerment whatsoever.

Can we acknowledge the truth for our OWN selves? Face what is before our eyes without fear or self deception.

The last two years have laid bare the myth of a two party system in Washington. The Obama administration, consistently and relentlessly has governed for the corporate interests above people's interrests since their inauguration. We do not have representation in Washington that represents the peoples' interests. We simply do not. Across the board, the private corporations rule the show. I don't know how their can be any doubt whatsoever to what the American politican has become...

An employess of BP, Exxon, the Koch Brothers, the health insurance industry and the pharmaceultical companies.


I am not going to drone on and on about the evidence and reasons for this obvious and logical conclusions. You know them. And, if you want to pretend that you don't, fine pretend. The mere fact that the entire Gulf is toxic and BP just announced it will likely reinstate its dividends for next year, the banks are handing out billions to each other in bonuses for utterly decimating our economy, and the inside people who in Washtington with all the power are children of these corporations should be more then enough to show our complete loss of control over the powers that RULE us. People have been writing thesis length posts on DU and other sites for the past two years.


The elections aren't working. (And, the machines are bought and owned. How any person in a district can vote on a machine owned by a private corporation that can be hacked with pac-man by remote, and believe that there are real elections in this nation boggles the mind).

Obama is announcing bipartisan cooperation with a group of the most toxic corporate thugs just as he announced bipartisanship would rule the last two years....


Action is what is needed. Coordinated, deliberate, and bold action by the people, FOR THE people. But, if we can't have these discussion on well-populated political forums because they are detract from the politicians, we are pretty much hopeless.

OUR LOYALTY AND RESPONSIBILITY IS TO OURSELVES AND OUR NEIGHBORS, not to a POLITICIAN. NOT to a party.


My friend works in a clinic for the mentally ill in a small city in a liberal state. Every week, people are referred to a crisis care group through urgent care and they have a group intake to admit the clients into different programs. This week (& many weeks), the majority are men and the main reason that they are in crisis? Suicide attempts. Due to what cause? Loss of a job. Financial ruin. Led to divorce. Led to substance abuse. Led to stealing. Led to a suicide attempt.

Every week. In one little town...

How long are we going to keep playing the wealth's game of pretend? How long before we organize and strike back in a REAL way?

What if instead of this endless game of ping/pong pointlessly debating the corporate system and how to elect people on bought machines and bought campaigns, we started having a real dialogue...

Because it seems to me, power is taken and not given and if you are going to take power, you have to target the source of it.

Which would be the corporations....

You do know that we could shut down the entire system any day of the week, if we just had the balls or ovaries to do it.

Everyone stop paying their credit cards. Everyone stop paying their mortgages. Everyone stop playing the sick game.

So often the response is that we can't do it. But, we are starting to do it by force. That is when big change happens. You have a huge population of unemployed people, they can't pay their bills. Right now, the banks are just trying to get the money by squeezing those of us still holding on for every penny we have. More fees, higher rates, ridiculous penalities in interest for one month late fees, hidden inflation...They will bend it until it breaks. Perhaps, we should be speaking about our empowerment and strategies against this system while we still have a method of communication open to us. Perhaps, the owners of political sites can show the courage that politicians refuse to do by using their reach to help organize the people in a real way...

The people who own the government have a scortched earth methodology. Literally, look at the oil spill. Look at global warming. We are letting the wealth of this country steal us blind, utilize war as a profit method, destroy the earth, and break the everyday lives of citizens around this globe.

They own the politicians. They own the system.

You don't regain power by going after their employees in Washington.

You address the source.

You bring the corporations to their knees.

We be many and they be few.

We have to find the courage in ourselves. There isn't anyone else going to do it.

[subsuelo]

1. Well said. The first action should be dismantling mainstream media.

Shut down these corporations filling everyone's heads with lies and ongoing right-wing propaganda. It is not trampling freedom of speech to claim back *our* public airwaves

[AspenRose]

35. +1

[JDPriestly]

64. Cancel your subscriptions to right-wing newspapers and to cable.

Watch MSNBC on-line. They get revenue from the ads they show you.

That is what I am doing.

[Bryn]

78. Yes!

The first action should be the media. I agree with you.

:kick:

[defendandprotect]

102. That's simple ... put the TVs in the closet ....

lies and rw has been pushing VIOLENT programming for decades now --

fear of your neighbor, druggies -- get a gun -- GOPs/NRA --

[GiordanoBruno]

109. Shutting them down would violate the Constitution

And I don't think anyone here wants to live in a place where anyone can shut up anyone else.

Please note that "our public airwaves" do not extend to cable television which is entirely privately owned. We do not collectively own cable television anymore then we collectively own your neighbor's cat.

WE CAN BYPASS THE MSM though.

The most interesting perspective I'm come across in the (currently) free environment of the internet is a guy named Dan Carlin. Both his history podcast "Hardcore History" and his political podcast "Common Sense" contain some of the most interesting ideas I've heard...ever.

He's not exactly "Liberal" or "Progressive" especially using the current meanings, but he DOES cut through the BS. Although I don't buy his entire narrative (even he doesn't), I think his ideas regarding reform are right on. I also think he is right when he talks about our country being in great danger...at a historical tipping point...maybe even on the other side of one...but then I give up hope which I don't think serves anyone.

I'm done with the two party system. We've had the "best of all worlds" the past two years and we've seen what that gets us. I'm fully awake. I can see clearly what's wrong with our country and I have no faith in ANYONE currently in office. Military Keynsianism, Executive branch executions of American citizens, extrajudicial, star-chamber imprisonments, giveways to the Pharmaceutical industry and corrupt collusion with Wall Street all need to come to an end or we lose the Republic. American exceptionalism does not make us immune from the laws of history. Plutonomies do not remain stable. The founders were not kidding when they included the 4th amendment in the Bill of Rights.

[subsuelo]

119. if that is the case, violating the constitution would be the smart thing. nt

[Poboy]

2. Max Keiser at Zerohedge says just start with one. He picked Coke.

If we all just started to boycott Coke. He gives some solid strategic reasoning...

The Power of the Boycott - Max Keiser on Economics 101

Max Keiser joins us to talk about Karmabanque, a way to use the leverage of the hedge funds to turn Wall Street against the multinationals. We discuss the Coke boycott and the power of strategic activism.

VIDEO-
http://vodpod.com/watch/4026038-the-power-of-the-boycott-max-keiser-on-economics-101

====

Boycott Coca Cola

The campaign tried to help activists, environmentalists, etc. expand the public domain by first cleaning up the toxic slick in financial markets. The right wing tried to shut this campaign down, of course, by smearing it in the press; falsely accusing us of instigating market manipulation. But they ended up with egg on their face as their crony legal friends over at Washington Legal foundation, after looking at Karmabanque wrote an opinion that basically gave the green light to combining boycotts with short selling to pressure companies to amend their public domain threatening ways.

We had outsmarted them using bastard capitalism- financialism - to undo the damage wrought by the bankers and brokers operating behind their unregulated financial curtains. Unfortunately the activist community never jumped on this opportunity for reasons I have discussed many times, mainly, they thought that any strategy that utilized markets was somehow a net gain for the corporations even though the clear purpose of the campaign was to pressure a net loss in the form of a dropping stock price.

The charge of instigating market manipulation got me interested in exposing real market manipulation so we made some documentaries for Al Jazeera, including “Rigged Markets,” a film that exposed how the SEC was doing nothing to stop naked short selling, a technique of counterfeiting stock to drive down the price in such a way that the film posited was creating systemic risk similar to what we saw in 1929. Within a couple of years both Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers were destroyed by hedge funds manipulating and colluding using naked short selling – as we explained in our film – to wipe out these companies and set the stage for the global financial meltdown we are all familiar with.

http://maxkeiser.com/2009/04/19/max-keiser-blog-revisiting-boycott-hedge-fund-campaign-against-coke/

[beforeyoureyes]

14. Interesting.

[Poboy]

32. Glad you liked the post. I hope you watched the 10 min. video.

He explains it simply and how effective this strategy might be. The powers are too big to fight head-on, so this is a financial jujitsu of sorts.


Here is a direct link to the site itself that he talks about in the video-
http://www.karmabanque.com/

[disillusioned73]

53. I'm tagging this for when I get home...

thanks

[JDPriestly]

88. K&R the Keiser video. Very interesting.

I hope to watch the rest of what I have the impression is a series of videos on basic economics. The brief introduction that I had in high school to economics was a long time ago and not very informative. I am very interested in economics and read and watch what I can on the topic. So, I really appreciate Max Keiser's videos because they provide a unique point of view -- and they are a lot of fun in my opinion. Max Keiser is outrageous, but that makes his videos anything but dry.

[OneGrassRoot]

124. Yes, very interesting indeed! Thanks for link and video. :) n/t

[librechik]

47. great investment idea--bookmarking KARMABANQUE! n/t

[Egnever]

54. Interesting post

Should be an OP

[Poboy]

121. Since this idea is showing such interest, I think I will.

Thanks to all of you you checked the idea out. Its very novel and unconventional, much in the spirit of the OP, who I think presents a challenge to us all as well.

[JDPriestly]

87. I stopped buying Coke products in 2007, so I'm in on this by

coincidence.

[timtom]

105. And I stopped buying soft drinks in the 90's.

And I unplugged my TV (at least for myself) years ago.

So, I'm definitely on board, as well.

[JDPriestly]

151. timtom, that makes two of us, and I always mention this in order

to encourage more DUers to try it.

[unapatriciated]

167. I didn't just stop buying coke, I don't buy a single product they sell.

I always look for their name on the label. I also have never ever shopped at wally world.

http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/brands/brandlist.html

[defendandprotect]

103. Watch the reaction to this .... UN called for Americans to go Vegetarian ... to help planet...!!

It's one of the smartest ideas -- it would not only help the planet --

it would improve the health of all Americans taking them somewhat out of the

medical care system --

and would large hurt monopoly farming and help our local farmers who have managed

to hang on!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. Here's a novel idea. Why don't we try fighting them in the courts. That way

we don't have to wait between elections. This is something the Republicans were doing in my local area, some time ago. On a small scale, they were trying to overturn the wetland requirements that stymie developers who want to pave everything. The strategy was simple. First, they would find hapless homeowners who purchased wetlands, but could not develop them. A lawyer would work pro bono and push their cause through the courts. Because they were hapless homeowners their cause would resonate with the public. But, of course, once the courts ruled in their favor, developers could use it as precedent to do what they wanted on their own, larger properties.

Just use the same method, but use it for good, not evil.

You could start with the little things. For instance, start by putting teeth in the Public Records Law and Sunshine Laws in Florida. There is no question that our local governments are corrupt. We just need the army of lawyers who can expose them in court. There is more than a few of us who could use a pro bono attorney for this purpose.

You see, usually it's the State Attorney's job to enforce the Public Records Law, but they won't do it. They know the corruption is going on in their district but they won't get involved. Why? Because they're good ole boys who are more interested in collecting their pensions than they are in enforcing the law. That's my best guess. So, what we need is lawyers who can use the courts since the laws are, theoretically, fool proof on these matters.

[JDPriestly]

89. Problem is that in some states, the judges are appointed by the governor.

And governors, often, are Republicans who appoint their cronies. Sometimes judges have, shall we say, a perspective that gives the edge to privilege. That is not always true. In fact, I would say that the vast majority of judges try to be very fair. But, when it comes to foreclosures, judges tend to think that everything is as it was way back when they could assume that the mortgage company was right. I think it is hard to get a judge who will question a mortgage case or the assumption that the papers in such a case are in order.

[The Backlash Cometh]

127. Yes, that is a problem.

But, it pays to expose their agenda, doesn't it?

[defendandprotect]

95. We have 25 million unemployed who should be ORGANIZED .....

How can it be that isn't sufficient political pressure?

It's because our Congress is owned by elites/corporates who with $$$ prevent

any response!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

128. I think the Repubs are doing a great job at organizing the anger out there.

The question is, how do we get their attention? We need more than Jon Stewart. In fact, we need Jon Stewart for the rednecks who are intelligent, but pretend not to be because of the social benefits.

[defendandprotect]

134. Oddly enough ...

so true -- it's like watching a lot of "Bull Connors"

and wondering what the hell this nation is thinking!!

What is obvious is that we need more discussion of all this --

and trust it will result in action.


We've been distracted for two years now of Obama's term talking about T-baggers --

Even Olbermann every night wants to tell me about Palin and T-baggers!

This KOCH BROS financed right wing side show run out of a PR firm was let run wild.

Reminded me of the GOP-sponsored fascist rally in Miami-Dade County to stop the vote-

counting in 2000! And, as Nader makes clear -- NO comparable group on the Dem Party

side -- yet these obnoxious loudmouths were permitted to infiltrate Dem Town Hall

Meetings and shut them down. As Nader also points out, Democratic Party didn't call

out its supporters to demonstrate for MEDICARE FOR ALL. "Why not?" is the obvious Q.

The answer is all too obvious -- but many don't want to face it.

Keep talkin' --

:)

[defendandprotect]

106. Why don't we begin a SHADOW DEMOCRATIC PARTY....hire Russ Feingold and Grayson....

let's take on Erin Brockovitch --

round up all the liberal Democrats who were knocked out of government

over the decades by Repug using NRA to target them and rw money --

Where are they all -- why haven't they done something -

Gary Hart still around anywhere?

Michael Moore -- Ralph Nader -- on and on -- Robert Redford --

we've have spokespersons galore -- and they could walk, talk and chew gum!!


Here are comments by Nader with ideas ....

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/2/ralph_nader_dems_face_losses_to

[sabrina 1]

123. I like that idea.

The DLC already formed a shadow Democratic Party. They've been dragging the party to the right for 25 years now.

A new organizatioin is required, but these orgs need money. Are there any left millionaires who would help fund a progressive organization equal to the DLC? I do believe there needs to be an organized effort now by the people to start influencing who gets into Congress. And as soon as members of Congress begin to sell out, they need to be targeted and primaried right away.

The biggest crime in this country is the selling of this government to big Corporations who run and fund their own candidates and the job is nearly complete.

Having Grayson and Feingold on board, maybe Dorgan, Carter and others, would help a great deal.

I like this OP, it is what we need to do but how?

[The Backlash Cometh]

130. Maybe start with a think tank?

How do the kids get together around the nation with their interactive games? Maybe we should have a game room of our own by invitation only?

I hear that skype now accepts group meetings.

[sabrina 1]

131. That would be one way.

A few people who might be willing to help, financially, would make it more possible. People like Michael Moore eg.

Think tanks are how the Repubs did it over the past thirty years. But they had lots of financial backing.

Maybe a progressive forum that is focused on issues and activism, funded so it is attractive and easy to navigate. Dedicated to identifying and supporting real Progressive Democrats. Featuring guest bloggers who are well known, like James Galbraith on the economy eg, answering questions from commenters on what went wrong and how to fix it, so activists are well informed on the issues. Having popular political figures, like Grayson and Feingold contribute, should help it grow.

There really is no place for real progressives to go to discuss how to get, eg, a real national Health Care Bill passed without being stymied by party loyalists more concerned about particular politicians than about the issues.

We also need a real labor movement in this country. But a central place where people know they can focus on pushing a real progressive agenda without being side-tracked by complainers about 'loyalty' etc. would be interesting. And if it became popular enough, could be a force for Congress to have to deal with.

[xiamiam]

141. spot on..i love this thread..reminds me of the old du..nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

158. Okay, when do we start the game room?

Lots of people know how to put these things together. It's basically, a social network crossed with video game technology. We can have different rooms for civil rights issues that INCLUDE gay rights and racial discrimination. I think, if we start putting them in the same category, instead of splitting them up, we might find they are more similar, than different. We are basically fighting for the same things. Respect. So we should discuss, together, the obstacles that we face in reaching that goal. Another forum could be for health and another for education.

And, yes, we need guest speakers live. What I would love to see is this forum organize outings so the members can come out and meet each other in the open doing community service for charitable reasons. If Carter is around building a house with his organization, looking for volunteers, we should show up wearing the same tee-shirt logos to give us some public recognition. Or, we should get together for 5K's.

Mostly, we need people involved who can motivate a wide number of people on the same issues and I suggest we use a more moderate, civil tone in the beginning because I don't want to become a member of a radical group. Frankly, I'm looking for more of the goodwill and good faith that churches were once affiliated with, without all the hatred they inspire today.

We go with those intentions in mind, to connect with people who want to take back America for Americans who believe that the Constitution stands for tolerance, the very rights that the Right-wing has forgotten or outwardly dismissed, and we can't go wrong.

Oh, and one very big benefit you'll get from making the website looking like a video game is that you'll attract the younger generation. Big bonus there.

[defendandprotect]

133. DLC is part of the Democratic Party - infiltrated and co-opted it -- 25 years moving it to right....

but I don't mean anything like that --

I'm sure you also understand that many presidents have spoken about secret power unacknowledged

-- elites/corporates -- i.e., that there has long been a "Shadow Government"?

Some authors have written about this and discussed it -- many in fact . . .

John Stockwell-ex-CIA, for one who has been featured by the old C-span and

Fletcher Prouty, of course, who used the term "Secret Team" in his book to describe shadow

government.


Jeb Bush: GOP Needs To Set Up ?A Shadow Government? thinkprogress.org — He recommended that Republicans create a ?shadow government? to work on its own agenda. Is this disturbing to anyone else? Sounds down right un-American, if not illegal, but it is the GOP we're talking about. Dec 1, 2008

http://digg.com/news/politics/Jeb_Bush_GOP_Needs_To_Set_Up_A_Shadow_Government

Scroll down -- some humorous comments



What I am talking about is citizens trying to use a "Shadow Democratic Party" to influence the

party -- taking advantage of advice from those with experience not only in government but those

willing to talk about the corruption. People like Feingold, Grayson -- other liberal Democrats

knocked out over the years who didn't turn to lobbying. People like Bernie Sanders and any

other liberal/progressives willing to guide citizens. Michael Moore, Ralph Nader, Robt. Redford!

I've always joked about hiring Erin Brockvitch -- basically, American people need their

own lobbyists!


Think Nader's idea of District-wide citizen organization to influence Congress is the best.

Perhaps an offshoot of that kind of organization would be "Shadow Democratic Party."

But the idea would be to try to speak to the Democratic Party with some authority and in

a unified way to gain some leverage with them.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/2/ralph_nader_dems_face_losses_to

Scroll down for TEXT and his ideas on organizing by Districts --
Comments also on liberal wealthy like Soros -- but also on Bloomberg.


Ultimately, we would also be trying to judge whether there is enough left of the party to make

it worthwhile to try to salvage it -- or to determine what else could be done.

That "what else" yet to be determined upon advice.



Read an interesting description the other day about how DLC landed in the Democratic Party.

Evidently, Clinton could see that unions had been so depleted that they couldn't provide

sufficient funding for his campaign. Therefore, they devised this idea of attracting corporate

money into the party. Emmanuel, Clinton, Gore were all founding members. Hillary Clinton is

part of leadership now. I think there are wealthy people who would contribute to a counter-DLC,

but we would still be back in the hands of money -- and those people have expectations.

It's like the idea of family company vs monopoly corporation.

If you do business with your family, you know they all want say so -- !!

You have to deal with them.

If you're a corporation using OPM you don't have to deal with them.

They're simply along for the ride -- and the guys at the top control things.



In a very less formal way, you could almost organize something like this out of DU

to speak to Democratic Party with a more unified voice.

Starting, for instance, with polls on various questions -- one or two to start.

The more participating, the stronger the voice.


Also remember the old story about Nixon selling himself to Prescott Bush and other

wealthy Repugs for $50,000 a year over Congressional salary to do their dirty work.

Think they well recognized Nixon's inclination to do dirty work, anyway! And Repugs

are always on the look out for talent like that.

Basically, we can't and don't want to BUY new members of Congress.

We have to find some way to make corporate money and candidates an oxymoron.

Don't think Speaker Pelosi was off to a good start two weeks ago in describing trying

to make it like "poo on their shoe" ... was that it? :rofl:

But we'd have to be working to make corporate money what it -- dirty.

And any candidate taking it -- dirty.




For now ... :)











The biggest crime in this country is the selling of this government to big Corporations who run and fund their own candidates and the job is nearly complete.

[The Backlash Cometh]

156. I know about shadow governments. There are many, interconnected

by campaign contributions to the same political people. Unfortunately, they also involve members of the same party.

[defendandprotect]

163. NOT shadow "government" .....

but "Shadow Democratic Party" .....

not only to try to influence the Democratic Party to the left --

but also to be a liberal/progressive think tank for the benefit of the party

and citizens in general -- to formulate a Plan B.

To consider whether this is a party we can save or whether it has already lost

too much power to be effective?

[The Backlash Cometh]

129. That's what I'm saying.

[stray cat]

4. No house or mortgage no loans no balance on credit cards - your turn

[beforeyoureyes]

18. the post isnt advocating people to not own property or ever take out loans

it is about uniting together to not allow usuary rates, enslavement to health insurance & pharmaceutical companies, and empowering each other.

i dont get some of these responses....

[rhett o rick]

110. Dont mind this poster. Use the alert function. nm

[Jefferson23]

29. What is your point here please? n/t

[Nostradammit]

56. Could you be any more obnoxious?

Seriously.

[frylock]

111. yes it can..

that's all this particular poster has. never adds anything to the conversation, just hit n run non sequitar bullshit like the example above.

[Kalun D]

5. Well Said

and all you have to do for your question about what to do

is look at what's happening in France right now

we need national level walkouts in all the key industries

start with trucking

[Better Today]

6. I recommended something similar last year re: mortgages...

everyone stop paying until a demand the note requirement is met. I like yours better. Just bring them to their knees for like 2-3 months, bet it wouldn't even take that long.

[emilyg]

7. k/r

[Catherina]

8. Rec'd n/t

[Naturyl]

9. K&R - Thank you for this.

Time to talk honestly indeed. As mush as I get frustrated with DU from time to time, I keep coming back because it's a place where you can find things like this.

[upi402]

10. Agree 1000%

kick and rec -you laid it all out before my eyes OP

[Naturyl]

11. And I hope all those agreeing don't miss your straightforward advice

"Everyone stop paying their credit cards. Everyone stop paying their mortgages. Everyone stop playing the sick game."

I dropped out 10 years ago and have rarely looked back.

[PBass]

12. Unrecommended for the "Dems are the same as the GOP" bullshit,

as well as the ominous rhetoric about how we have to "strike back" and "bring corporations to their knees"

[beforeyoureyes]

15. The dems are enacting policies that this board would universally decry under Republicans

Shoe fits.

[SarahB]

26. +1 nt

[KittyWampus]

27. you aren't paying attention.

[rhett o rick]

113. Would you care to elaborate or just here to stir things up? nm

[defendandprotect]

97. +1000%

[defendandprotect]

135. +1000%

[hfojvt]

51. exactly start with "let us be honest" and then go into bullsh*t

not sure I disagree with the strike back part

[Binka]

55. We Shouldn't Bring Corporations To Their Knees?

Are you awake? My nine year old understands this concept. Go watch dancing with the stars or whatever crap TV is spewing it is obvious you don't fucking get it.

[defendandprotect]

99. +1000% -- anyone who's ever played Monopoly gets it -- !!

[Binka]

101. Thanks!

A dirty sock is just showing it's ignorance with that post.

[MNBrewer]

63. Rec for your unrec

[MissDeeds]

84. Ditto

K&R

[defendandprotect]

96. We now have a right wing party and a radical right wing party ...

and you're celebrating the difference between them?

If you don't understand the need to "strike back" against corporatism then you

don't understand fascism.

[rhett o rick]

117. The quote you provide in quotations isnt in the OP. That is intellectually dishonest.

The OP isnt saying what you claim. Can you spell strawman? Can you spell moran? We are in a fight for our lives against the rich fat cats and their corporations and you seem to be on the wrong side.

[phasma ex machina]

13. deleted

[nofurylike]

16. just curious: do you work as hard trying to end the two party form

of government here? fighting to end the electoral college?

"honestly" please.

just curious.

[beforeyoureyes]

17. what on earth does that have to do with my post

trying to start a discussion about different tactics. given that i am writing about breaking the system from without rather then within, this is a odd response

[nofurylike]

48. a odd reply, considering you open with "the myth of a two party

system."

it is not about "loyalty" to a party. it is about devotion to ideals, such as equality, compassion...

there are two choices. until people dedicate to making it possible for there to be more choices, there are two choices.

some people decided that their frustration, that there are not more choices, justified their abandoning those ideals. - many of whom never do a thing to reform this form of governrnment into one that allows more choices.

nor have they tended to work very hard, if at all, to evolve the party they do have into one that better lives such values.

so many just go punish....

"honestly," you wrote.


peace

[Binka]

57. wtf n/t

[defendandprotect]

100. Are you saying that the Dem Party hasn't been bought in large party by corporate money...???

We've known this for decades -- and its only increased!

DLC-corporate wing of the Dem Party actually moved in -- founded by those like

Clinton, Gore, Emmanuel -- Hillary Clinton is party of leadership. Obama a "New Dem" --


it is not about "loyalty" to a party. it is about devotion to ideals, such as equality, compassion...

It has to be about devotion to small "d" democracy -- not LARGE "D" Democratic Party.

Granted, we've embraced what used to be the ideals of the party ... they are still in our

hearts -- the question is, are they still instilled in those now representing the party?

Europeans well understand there are other choices -- like IRV voting.

That doesn't mean that I'm naive enough not to understand that Europeans are also under

attack by elites.

Many here IMO are activists -- maybe not at the current moment in current political arena --

but obviously intelligent people here who want to understand what is going on and are

actively spreading information -- and notice how many are applauding the call for action.

Considering the millions and millions of Americans suffering right now -- and probably one

way or another, most of us have at least one family member suffering -- and sometimes more --

I think you fail to understand what underlies this post in its call for a push to action.

nor have they tended to work very hard, if at all, to evolve the party they do have into one that better lives such values.

I can tell you personally, that is nonsense. More than 20 years ago it was obvious that anyone

but elites are shut out of these parties. Barring some crazies. Look at Congress ... what are

the numbers on the multi-millionaires and simple one or two digit millionaries? You know that.


This war by elites is as old as the earth -- it's a desire by the few among us to have control

over others. And VIOLENCE is the basis of their surges. There is no other way but VIOLENCE

that the right wing can rise and we've had more than 50+ years of out in plein air political

violence by the right wing --

that and stolen elections and lies.


We can wait until the situation becomes even worse, of course .... ?

Or we can begin to discuss what we all thing is a starting point for what has to be done.

[nofurylike]

152. "nonsense." interesting word for your not understanding. bye. nt

[defendandprotect]

164. There is no other argument than that re corporate takeover of Dem Party....

[rucky]

19. +1

I'm not confident we can get our shit together enough to strike at the root with a focused and coordinated message.

I am confident that if we were ever able to, most of the country would get behind it.

[Caretha]

20. What you say is true

and your suggestions will work. Unfortunately it will not resonate to most, yet. "Yet" is the key here - people are still razzle-dazzled by all the shiny objects and want to believe that there really is still a two party system and their represenatives in government are looking out for them. This could not be farther from the truth.

A large part of the problem is that TPTB have been able to divide the American population and have turned neighbor against neighbor, brother against brother, etc., thus taking the spotlight off those who are actually selling us all out.

We have experienced a complete breakdown in the system - criminals rule. The laws are broken everyday and not prosecuted. The US is in a deep spiral downward, and it will eventually affect a larger portion of the population - Then, and only then will change occur and people will finally say "Enough!".

[Poboy]

36. Right, 'yet'. Its coming though, if we have any self worth by the time it arrives that is.

[uncommon]

21. "OUR LOYALTY AND RESPONSIBILITY IS TO OURSELVES AND OUR NEIGHBORS, not to a POLITICIAN. NOT

to a party."

This is something that I think is resonating more and more with a lot of voters.

Personally I think we need to institute term limits in the House and Senate - we need fresh blood, and not just conservative fresh blood, new ideas and a real dedication to public service.

[LWolf]

22. k&r

[Le Taz Hot]

23. I' ve been saying this for YEARS on this board.

After seeing FROM THE INSIDE (I was an E-Board Member in the CDP) what they did to Dean in 2004 I quit all chairmanships, all committees, everything. Flat.

Here is the truth: The major political parties are all suckling off the same corporate teet (I usually express this in more, uh, graphic terms, but I'm tryin' to clean up my act here). They don't care about us. They don't even know we exist except every two years when they DEMAND our vote. But there is a way around it and, at some point, I'm going to write a long missive about the solutions because they're out there.

Welcome to enlightenment. It ain't pretty but it's honest and it's the only way we're going to effectively move forward.

[Raster]

50. There may be two national political parties, but they feed at the same trough and by the same hand.

And that trough is the corporate slop wagon. Increasingly ordinary citizens of this country are left out of the government. The United States government is NOT of the people, for the people or by the people; and has not been so for many years.

[defendandprotect]

136. Now, the evidence is becoming clearer to the many ....

I'm not going to say "undeniable" because many here at DU have shall we say

very hard heads!

My BS-meter must be set higher than others --

My days with the Democratic Party are well remembered for the fabulous Americans

I encountered who all wanted to help their country. But they were all taken

advantage of by the party elites. The party was long ago totally under control

of $$. And, only people with $$ got thru the arches!

Campaigning for Democratic candidates is still joyfully remembered -- even though

what the party itself was doing began to become quite clear to me. Meeting citizens

and understanding their worth -- and their wonderful explanations of their own

political feelings and experiences -- isn't something I'll ever forget!

[pattmarty]

24. This is what 21st century fascism looks like. These conservative.............

..........."think tanks" have had over 40 yrs to take Mussolini's corporatist style fascism and through psychological manipulation, propaganda outlets like Fox news and the RW radio monopoly transform it into a polished form THEY call conservatism. And yes, both parties are bought and paid for by these corporatists. I stated in another post that there has been NO party that represents the poor, working class and lower middle class (under 100K) for quite some time in the US. I am 64 yo (and took an early SS at age 62 to make sure I got it) and honestly don't expect it to get any better. In fact we all know that if the Republicans get back total power things will get a lot worse. So we are left with "suck on it" or if you have some savings and either a degree or work experience that can translate into work overseas you can become an expat. Medicare will eventually be "privatized" and the same for SS and basically that is the ONLY social programs left on a national level. Oh, Medicaid will be "phased out". USA, USA, USA, USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AuntPatsy]

25. Sadly some cannot not only handle the truth but refuse to even consider the possibility

can in fact be our downfall if we continue to shield our eyes....

[KittyWampus]

28. Why don't you take your own advice? Stop paying your mortgage, credit cards. Go right ahead.

Otherwise, you're a hypocrite who doesn't do jack shit but spout nonsense on a message board pretending to be so very wise and cynical.

YOU are part of the problem.

[Poboy]

30. You are missing the point entierly. If this is to work, we HAVE to do it as a group.

This isn't about being irresponsible. This is about trying to combat the death grip we are in.

Maybe this idea isn't quite ripe yet, but in a few years I suspect it will be.

[beforeyoureyes]

52. Exactly...several people here suggest I just stop on my own

.....which will do absolutely nothing to address the problem.

Our powers is in our numbers and ability to organize. We need to do it soon. They are going to take down the internet as a means of organization probably very soon.

I am not just putting this out half-hazardly. My post was first and foremost a test statement to see how this would be met on a fairly liberal political community. The fact that it has been posted to the front page in the journal section and the recommends far overreach the unrecommends show that this is where many people are at...

It has to be organized and it will take a lot of courage. I can no more do this alone then swallow a bowling ball.

I am willing to put myself out there to be one of the organizers and develop the idea much more fully. I know several people in my local political groups (yeah, imagine that, I am involved person and have been for many years) who would probably be in to do develop a basic platform and put it out there).

These things spring from the grass roots, so why not us.

[MilesColtrane]

62. "They are going to take down the internet as a means of organization probably very soon."

O RLY?

[Poboy]

125. Well, as you have noted, the idea has resonance.

125+ recommends (net) as of this post!

[defendandprotect]

138. Understand... and you're right... just a little ahead of us all... think the movement

last year to move whatever assets we have out of monopoly banks and into credit

unions was brilliant --

I regularly have posted here asking DU'ers to use cash and stop running around every

day enriching credit card companies on every purchase -- which adds to the overall

expense of everything we pay for!

Basically, I think with 22 million unemployed -- we should be organizing them --

it's a lot of available intelligence and manpower to waste!!

And many of them have credit cards and credit woes!

And it just irks the hell out of me that stories on the unemployed are always about

their "finding" jobs rather than the reality that we need government to CREATE JOBS!!


Again, you're a bit ahead of us -- but you're right!!

Good post!

:)

[Hannah Bell]

148. "organize" is the key. simply encouraging people to stop watching tv, buying coke,

paying their mortgages or whatever is just an extension of the same individualist, consumerist politics that's long been proven bankrupt.

there has to be an educated, networked, communicating group of people to put the muscle in any program or set of demands -- people that, when the group makes a demand/threat, will turn out -- to boycott, to protest, to occupy, to vote or not vote, to do whatever is threatened, or seems politic *in the moment*.

what is the ground for such organizing? i think that's the first question when you're thinking of ways around the current balance of power.

in the old days it was the shop floor, the universities, the black churches, etc.

the wingers have broken up the shop floors, are defunding the universities, have made inroads on even the black churches, & certainly on churches in general. people are more isolated than ever, what is the common lived experience that is the ground for organizing?

people say, "the internet" facilely, but i don't think they've thought it through well enough.

[PBass]

153. Lets all jump off a cliff together! You can go first... Great advice you have here, (NT)

[TheKentuckian]

31. We are all a part of the problem by being partisans of a party who's entire mission is to preserve

the establishment and to insure the system against structural reform by satiating the liberal inclination toward equality and broad prosperity.

The Democratic party is an energy funnel to take all the effort and angst and transform it to efforts to maintain the status quo.

[defendandprotect]

165. OK ... suggest a Plan B ....

[TheKentuckian]

170. We need more than one mind to solve this pickle.

Right now getting people to accept plan A is chock full of FAIL means a brainstorm about solving the real problems can begin. Gotta crawl before walking and walk before running.

Wrapping our heads around what a daunting mess we must unravel and dispose of is a good first step and one that needs a bit of critical mass to move to the next step(s).

The party must either be captured or crashed is my preliminary assessment. I was taught to eliminate the lower hanging fruit and work up as needed so capture ala reverse Tea Party would seem to be the first ploy. Failing that break it or force them to create a new coalition if they can ferret one out while labor, ethnic minorities, GLBT, environmentalist, and liberals go our own way and build a new coalition that unites those deep common interests.

That means waiting for a different math and even a perhaps a deep desperation of options but when that time comes, such a coalition would have answers for the good of the people, all the people.

[defendandprotect]

171. Exactly ....

Be back later -- but generally agree with you -- needs more discussion by everyone --

but few here have recognized the need to change the party.

And we now have two very dangerous years to get thru with Repugs holding the house --


... later -- but keep on talking about this.

:)

[defendandprotect]

174. Just want to say again, you have the basis of a very worthwhile beginning to

discussions -- why they don't happen here more often I'll be damned if I know?

Looks lik many here want the discussion to begin.

[readmoreoften]

46. Only someone who knows exactly zero about the history of social movements would

respond as such. Begin by educating yourself. Until then, think before you speak and make yourself look like an ignorant fool.

[Binka]

59. I Have The Ignorant Fool On Ignore

Join me?

[fascisthunter]

69. me too

[Dr.Phool]

86. Me too.

[defendandprotect]

139. Would, but .....

don't notice that poster but very infrequently.

HOWEVER, I counted the other day 67 on my ignore list!!

But only if I go into 9/11 do I see a bunch of "ignores."

So -- I can only presume that many of them leave DU eventually?

In general discussions, there are certainly not 67 posters being blocked --

I see an occasionally one or two or three during a day here.


Odd, eh?

[rhett o rick]

114. Are you calling out a DU member? There are two sides in this class war. Whose side are you on? nm

[xiamiam]

146. discussions sometimes get derailed here..usually by a few

i only have one person on ignore but there are always the naysayers...always the apologists..so what?..what have we, as a country, got to lose?..the crap has pretty much hit the fan..i can guarantee you that nothing that has been accomplished by this administration in the last couple years has helped me..and my financial life was destroyed..25 years of almost to my dream..kaput... when someone like me (hard working, responsible, not much nonsense or drama) is kicked to the curb and no helping hand in sight, i know that tens of millions of others feel the same and are in the same situation..these are good ideas..time for change..real change..nothing thats on the msm will move us forward

what we've been handed is embarrassing...the afghanistan surge, health care, no looking back re an illegal war and the criminals who took us there, no prosecution of fraudsters and banksters AND

they got multi million dollar bonuses with tax payer money
AND taxpayers paid AIG so they could pay Goldman Sachs 25b for the bets they made against the mortgages and that debacle which has taken down the entire middle class of America

and nobody gets prosecuted while millions upon millions are in shock and out on the street or facing it and their lives in shambles.....i can go over it all ad nauseum but embarrassing is the word that comes to mind...we're all lumped together and treated like dumb sheepies who they tell what to buy, what to look like, what to be interested in, who to vote fo, what to believe..even clear untruths..reported as facts with no basis in fact repeated over and over until people think it is truth.

you just cant make this stuff up..

some here think we're just supposed to say okie dokie..fuck that..

turn off the msm...and cable for that matter..

i applaud your op..

move on and other organizations are key..i remember when i came to california in the early 70's, cesar chavez had the grape boycott going..it was effective..

turn off the tv is a good one but the hook is sports, or reality shows..ALL of it is programming.

[defendandprotect]

166. K&r for your post --

[defendandprotect]

137. Again, you're not understanding that he is asking for a movement ... i.e.,

that we fight this predatory capitalism in stronger ways --

Somewhat like the movement last year for everyone to move their savings

out of the bail out banks --

Many have done so -- we have! We're now doing banking business with credit unions.

Do the big banks care?

No -- they're still busy laundering drug money -- $500 million or more every year.


Many times here I've tried to speak to DU'ers about trying to limit credit card use --

those who can should be using cash. Any card is an immense expense for businesses.

3.5% interest on every purchase - - American Express 7.5%!

Even the franchized oil stations found that difficult to deal with during rising

oil price days. Iow, we're all going out every day earning money for banks.

And, businesses are barred by these banks from offering discounts for cash!

Those interest rates are compounding in our economy, increasing costs of businesses

and the costs of goods. And, we are enriching corporations which work against us all

buying government and elected officials!

[InvisibleTouch]

33. Agree with you on breaking the backs of the big corporations.

Not so much on the notion that all our elected officials are totally in their pockets, though of course I know there's a big influence. I do think that many Dems go into it with the genuine desire to make the country better for everyone - though whether they always go about it in the most effective way is open to debate.

In any case, I've long been of the mind that we need to disconnect from coveting and consuming everything we're told that we "need," and instead to find alternative ways of making a good living. More bartering and sharing of skills among cooperating groups. Some can grow food, for instance, while others provide medical and veterinary care, and others build or make repairs, etc. More self-sufficiency within each family and community, more supporting local farmers and businesses rather than buying food and items that have been shipped halfway around the world, and disconnecting from the grid with self-sustainable, renewable, and alternative power sources. A warning, though - if this becomes a big movement, the corporations will try to shut it down by bullying through the courts or any other way they can. Demons like Monsanto are already trying to control the world's supply of food-plant seeds. We will have to stand against that and simply keep doing what we know is right.

[defendandprotect]

142. Interesting post .....

Of course, the OP is about a movement, but I've frequently tried to point out

to DU'ers the expense to us all of using the credit cards daily. And to try

to use cash when they can. PLUS, we're enriching our enemies!

But that's not what Americans have been taught! They've been taught that capitalism

is next to "godliness" -- and synonymous with democracy!!! Woe is me!


Not so much on the notion that all our elected officials are totally in their pockets, though of course I know there's a big influence. I do think that many Dems go into it with the genuine desire to make the country better for everyone - though whether they always go about it in the most effective way is open to debate.

Would be interesting to know how, for instance, Kucinich and Bernie Sanders handle campaign

funding. I would like to believe in our elected officials -- and certainly see Repugs as vile,

but think everything has tipped to corporate interests -- and unfortunately, we cannot ignore

leadership which is where the "influence" is exerted. See Obama/Baucus health care!


A warning, though - if this becomes a big movement, the corporations will try to shut it down by bullying through the courts or any other way they can. Demons like Monsanto are already trying to control the world's supply of food-plant seeds. We will have to stand against that and simply keep doing what we know is right.

Exactly and why I don't think we want to put anything in mode of "boycott." It has to be

self-selection based on presentation of ideas. Seeds and water -- not a small issue for those

who want total control.

One very POWERFUL idea would be to change the public's mind on the myth that they need

animal-based foods. UN has appealed to Americans to move to vegetarianism. Would certainly

help our local farmers. And end a great deal of violence -- 12 million and more animals

slaughtered every day. This abuse of animal-life has also created great pollution.

But here is the key idea -- if we won't fight for the life of the planet vs capitalism/

corporatism -- then what would make us think that we will actually fight to protect our own lives

and our families?

It also has to become clearer to the public that elitism and capitalism are about EXPLOITATION

of nature and human beings.

Basically, I'm still of the opinion that too many Americans are still sitting in front of their

TV's counting on that news reader to tell them if something is really wrong!!!


:evilgrin:







In any case, I've long been of the mind that we need to disconnect from coveting and consuming everything we're told that we "need," and instead to find alternative ways of making a good living. More bartering and sharing of skills among cooperating groups. Some can grow food, for instance, while others provide medical and veterinary care, and others build or make repairs, etc. More self-sufficiency within each family and community, more supporting local farmers and businesses rather than buying food and items that have been shipped halfway around the world, and disconnecting from the grid with self-sustainable, renewable, and alternative power sources.

[crim son]

34. Intellectually I knew this, but Tuesday it still felt like a blow to the gut.

The evidence is there for anybody who wants to observe it. We have been tossed a few bones in the hope that we will remain silent; and when we continued to bark we have were rebuked for causing a disturbance. We are not pets; we are not children and we will not remain silent. Excellent post, beforeyoureyes. K&R.

[JNelson6563]

37. Thoughtful post..

I grow increasingly alarmed at the power of the corporations.

Julie

[snot]

38. I agree w/ your diagnosis, but not your proposed cure.

[defendandprotect]

143. What's your "cure" .... ?

[ourbluenation]

39. so you want a sort of tea party of the left...is that what your saying?

[readmoreoften]

45. Who invented that stupid meme? It doesn't even make sense.

Are you saying that the French strikes and other leftist movements are the equivalent of some corporate funded racist kooks with tea bags on their heads? No one is accepting this nonsense anymore. Get a better PR writer.

[Binka]

60. Good Gawd Fuck Off

Too stupid for a civil reply.

[datasuspect]

65. sure an actual left wing liberal populist movement would be just swell

we did it during the last depression. why not?

[urgk]

70. If you mean a ticked off, but rational bunch of Constitution-wavers...yes.

But one that works from within to convince the party and the independents that our approach, the one that says Capitalism should be tempered with reason and orchestrated with regards to our Constitutional rights, is the only reasonable, patriotic way to run a Democracy.

To use a speedway analogy, we don't need some rogue, nutjob, misinformed collective of wrongheaded closet racists to cut us off when we're winning the race, we need fierce, progressive, educated mechanics making an unstoppable motor.

[fascisthunter]

71. how about being honest about what the OP is saying

without being insulting and without jumping to a unfounded conclusion.

[rhett o rick]

115. Way to put words in his mouth. What's your motive? Are you a corporatist? nm

[Hannah Bell]

149. you mean a phoney front group funded by billionaires to exploit the resentments & fears of the

gullible?

i don't think that's what the poster is suggesting.

[krabigirl]

168. why not?

[Jakes Progress]

40. K&R.

Well sort of. I'm sorry I unrecced when I meant to rec.

Excellent post.

[Qutzupalotl]

41. You first.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

43. I hereby pledge to do all I can to bring down the corporations.

Will that do it?

[readmoreoften]

44. K&R

[laughingliberal]

49. K&R. Yes, they are having to soak a smaller & smaller group of people. It's unsustainable.

A clear example of killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

[Caretha]

104. Exactly

as they say on the "Price is Right" (I think ;)) Give that man a prize!

[defendandprotect]

144. eh.... remember they're still LAUNDERING huge amounts of Drug money .... !!!

H U G E amounts ......

Did they care when we began a movement to take our assets from their

banks and put them in credit unions?

But they've expanded the monthly card to the daily card -- how many of

us still running around with ATM cards every day paying for purchases with them?

That costs merchants money -- and ultimately doubles back on us in the costs of goods!

[Fire Walk With Me]

58. Yes! Absolutely.

[T Wolf]

61. Read Ted Rall's latest - he puts the bull's eye on the corporate world, where it belongs.

If some of their employees in government wind up as collateral damage, so be it.

He also says that "the left" will not be the vehicle for change. Just as the Democratic Party itself, liberals are too invested in "the system" and simply want to "reform" into a kinder, gentler, brand of exploitative capitalism.

Eventually, this empire will fall as all do. The corporations have to be taken out, as well as the individuals who run and profit from their crimes. Until that happens, we will be left to scrap for, well, scraps.

[DeSwiss]

66. K&R

It ain't robbery, it's a business cycle

"The main feature of capitalism is the seductive assertion that you can get something for nothing in this world. That you can manufacture wealth through money manipulation, and that it is OK to steal and hold captive the people's medium of exchange, then charge them out the ass for access. That you can do so with a clear conscience. Which you can, if you are the kind of sleazy prick who has inherited or stolen enough wealth to get into the game. Even so, to keep a rigged game going, you must keep the suckers believing they can, and eventually will, benefit from the game." ~ http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/07/waltzing.html">Joe Bageant, "Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball"

[urgk]

67. We need to feed the Tea Party's Constitutionality fervor and add reason....

I mean, the constitution seems to be a big deal with both the establishment Republicans and the Tea Party (or Retroublicans as I'm starting to call them) lately. There's a lot of smug declaration about the framer's intentions and what it means in the battle of the states' v. federal powers.

But, look at the preamble. It very clearly states what the document is supposed to accomplish:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Is it insuring domestic tranquility to let banks conjure up clever new, dishonest products that make them wealthy, bankrupt Americans and nearly destroy the economy? Is it securing "the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" to poison streams, make the air carcinogenic and sell our kids enough fat and sugar to shut down their internal organs? Is it promoting "the general Welfare" to permit a Health Insurance system to make billions of dollars while a whopping 24% of all bankruptcies (prior to this latest downturn) were medically related and filed by insured Americans?

The rights we have as expressly stated in the preamble could be thought to extend from each of us in a sphere. When our sphere bumps into somebody else's sphere, the intersection should be regulated. I learned in undergraduate PolySci that "Your right to swing your first extends only to the end of my nose." Instead of that arc, think of it as a bubble. Swing your fist in any direction, as long as it doesn't hit another person, who has a right not to be hit. That's fairly simple.

When any corporation puts pollutants in our lungs, in our water, in our economic system, it is time for us to demand that company stop swinging its fist. Our rights as American citizens to be healthy, to expect that if we behave responsibly we will be okay, to reap the modest benefits of our hard work, trump the rights of our corporations to blindly pursue profit.

We are subsidizing their money-making schemes. When American auto companies pulled out of Detroit, everybody else paid for it. The automakers made more money, but workers paid for it, real estate agents paid for it, restaurant owners paid for it, homeowners paid for it, alcohol addiction services paid for it, taxpayers who fund police and jails paid for it.

It's time we demand equal footing, at the least; to have our constitutional rights recognized as unalienable. It is just as much our country as Mitch McConnell's, as much our economy as the Koch Brothers, as much our future as McDonald's or Monsanto's or Goldman Sachs', and g**d*** it, it's time they acted that way.

[fascisthunter]

68. very well put

until people look at this honestly, this country is doomed...

[shawn703]

72. They would just pass legislation to collect fines

If big business would actually be threatened by a lack of income from boycotts. If you don't think they would, try to boycott health insurance companies in a few years and see what happens.

If you don't pay your credit cards, they'll take you to court and you'll owe the principal, the interest, the legal fees, the court costs once the corporate owned judiciary finds in plaintiff's favor. If you refuse to pay your judgment then they come and take it from you through liens an garnishments.

[McCamy Taylor]

73. Can't get away from two parties unless we get a parliamentary system.

[rhett o rick]

116. We dont need to dump the two party system, just make it responsible to the PEOPE and not corporation

[rug]

74. That is a most powerful statement said in a most gentle manner.

:thumbsup:

[northernlights]

75. they're 2 sides of the same corrupt coin

Fundamental, transformative change begins with us. Simply stop playing. Walk away from the table.

You won't be able to in one fell swoop. But start pulling out of the system. Buy no crap. NONE. Only buy what you need.

Here's a hint. You don't need coke or pepsi. You don't need *any* junk food. You don't need "toys." You don't need a mutual fund -- get out while you can and put your money in a credit union or into useful stuff that will help you survive comfortably. Extra insulation. A energy saving freezer. A garden. A couple cold frames.

My few dollars are in a credit union. I'll be growing much of my own food next year, cooking it solar and freezing, and drying it when I can. The rest I buy as much local as I can. And hopefully will get a windmill in to start going off grid.


Walk away. One step at a time.

[Bryn]

76. K&R

We should take down the media. They've been showing, speaking LOUDLY about the Tea Party which is a big joke over and over.

Yes, I know very well that both parties are under the control of the Corporate. They pretend to "fight each other", but behind the curtain they more likely pat each other's back.

We need a very good leader who will stand up for The People's rights. I am supposed to be the middle class, but money is starting to suck away going to those bogus charges, raising prices, etc. I've started to struggle now financially to meet costs of living.

I worry about what they put in our food for their own big profits thus poisoning us. Even animals are being abused, suffering in order to make them meat for us for their own profits. They even are feeding them unnatural food, shooting up unnatural stuff in them.

We need the government that's more for the People, but right now our government is being controlled by the Corporate. Everyone should know this!

I will be more than willing to be of help to fight this. We need to stop the huge speeding train that's coming to crash us ALL.

All of this is starting to remind me of the movie "V for Vendetta" where people are under the control of the government and are filled with lies from their own media, scaring people with religion stuff... even putting poison in their drinking water to cut down population in order for the Rich to get more for themselves. If our government is neglecting us then that's it. Right now they're talking about extending tax cuts for the rich so this shows that they don't care for the rest 98% of population who aren't rich. By letting tax cuts expire it should help the deficits. So who's going to pay for it?

Cut down Military Industrial Complex, this one is huge and is eating most of money. Our military troops all over the world aren't there to protect this country. They are there to protect the super rich/elites plus getting more profits for the Wall Street. (We should taken down the Wall Street. It's full of criminals there that get away with everything and are spoon-fed by our government!)

[indimuse]

77. Thank you!

rec!

[handmade34]

79. for years

I have been advocating boycotts. Buy local or don't buy it. Support local communities and/or start a small business.

We don't need 80% of the 'stuff' we buy from corporations.

...and fight for campaign finance reform!

[democrank]

80. Recommended.

I`ve been a Democratic activist since the early 60`s and it breaks my heart to see the indifference in our party today. Not just indifference, but the constant nodding at and acceptance of policies that go against basic Democratic Party principles. Now we have union-haters, torture-approvers, even folks who think members of the gay and lesbian community should get kicked out of the military if they get "outed." Folks tell us we`re whining if we demand an end to soldiers getting deployed to Afghanistan for the 3rd, 4th, 5th time. We`re told to stop demanding ponies if we want sewer projects and bridge repairs instead of bronze statues and Renaissance weekends for banksters. It`s really sickening. We`re told to accept "leaders" that constantly bend over backwards to pacify corporate elites while ignoring how many thousand homeless children? We`re supposed to cheer because our "leaders" allow the cost of medicine to border on obscene at the same time our children graduate from college with thousands and thousands and thousands in student loan debt. This is the best we got? Our own president praising George W. Bush for his patriotism? Are you frigging kidding me?


As far as I`m concerned, the folks from the Democratic Wing of this party should band together in support of common sense Progressive ideals and fiscal responsibility. Start working for public financing of campaigns. Stop talking about Glen Beck and Fox News and start concentrating on what we can do together. Check in with MoveOn or Jim Dean`s DFA and any other group pledging to uphold Progressive principles. Sharpen our message and look for some courageous messengers. There are plenty of them out there. America doesn`t hear these people and their ideas that often because the Inside-The-Beltway crowd of "leaders" and newsreaders don`t want them talking. That would mean someone`s terrific Dancing with the Stars story would be overshadowed but an expose on our mercenaries.


Eventually we`ll get somewhere, especially if we care less about winning and care more about about our values. Progressives care about economic and social justice which are positions that will gain approval if we sharpen our message and find spokespeople that are committed to real change.

[jtuck004]

81. I think any pressure we might gain from boycotts is quite small

given the state of our economy. Many businesses domestic sales are quite poor - those that show growth neglect the dozens or hundreds of stores and employees that have been discarded.

The corporations at the top are getting large amounts of their income from international business - a boycott here doesn't change things for them. On the other hand a boycott would hurt a lot of people at the bottom.

The only way we would gain power is through electing different people who would be more populist, and changing the rules by which the coporations operate, especially for the large investment banks.

But in my reading of the rules on DU I get the idea that they preclude honest discussion of alternatives or sweeping out Demos that seem to be in the pocket of the corps, including the President. I understand the rules were created to keept things civil and welcoming, and it may simply be that such discussions need to be held somewhere else, because rules that limit discussion on this could serve to support the corporations in their quest to get their hands on all the $. (Not making a moral judgement about whether the rules are good or bad, just what I get from reading them, and what I have seen locked or deleted in the past).

So the answer to your leading question - "can we have an honest discussion?", is...

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TBF]

83. Solidarity -

it is the only way.

[Dr.Phool]

85. Awesome!!!!

[glinda]

90. Well said and with the thought of grouping together can someone help me with this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=mydu

[OneGrassRoot]

93. That is so weird....

Clicking on your link takes me to my "My DU" page. ?

Maybe try again...I'd like to try to help with whatever it is.

:hi:

[glinda]

107. try this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9480084

[defendandprotect]

91. Right ... one right wing party/one radical right wing party... does DU have courage to hear that?

Action is what is needed. Coordinated, deliberate, and bold action by the people, FOR THE people. But, if we can't have these discussion on well-populated political forums because they are detract from the politicians, we are pretty much hopeless.

OUR LOYALTY AND RESPONSIBILITY IS TO OURSELVES AND OUR NEIGHBORS, not to a POLITICIAN. NOT to a party.

Been saying that as long as I've been at DU -- one person can formulate a Plan B on their own!!

HOWEVER, our "responsibility" is to ourselves and to small "d" democracy --

not large "D" Democratic Party.

[OneGrassRoot]

92. K&R. What if, in addition to other approaches, we focus on overturning Citizens United....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9478876&mesg_id=9478876

Thanks for the spot-on OP.

:hi:

[sabrina 1]

150. Good idea. There should be a list of goals

And then focus in on them until they are achieved. But first, there has to be leadership and a structure. How do we get to that point? And strikes, as the OP says, take them to their knees. Nothing else has worked.

[defendandprotect]

94. When does the conversation begin here for "ACTION" .... let's go -- !!

[Starry Messenger]

98. k & r

[mike_c]

108. rec rec rec rec rec rec rec rec rec rec....

etc.

Best post of the day.

[RainDog]

112. you're telling the truth n/t

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Poboy]

120. Thank you for posting. More of this dialogue is NEEDED! -nt

[OneGrassRoot]

122. I thank you for diving in, and so respectfully, as well.

:hi:

[Poboy]

160. It is a shame that post we replied to was deleted.

For those of you who missed it, it was from someone of a different political persuasion, who was trying to reach out to us and form an alliance on the issues we both agree on. Work together for the popular common good. He was very respectful and wanted to work with us.

[Sugarcoated]

126. I dream of a true Party Of The People

especially after this Tuesday. It feels like we're so effin screwed . . . but your post gives me hope.

[Fire1]

132. We may be many and they be few but "we"

lack balls and attention span.

[lovuian]

140. Nationwide Strike

everybody stops working

[Fire1]

157. Oh hell no. Then they can't pay that God forsaken cell phone

bill!

[defendandprotect]

145. You not only did a great job .....

just want to add this comment that you see the need for progressing in all

areas to new solutions -- and united action -- united movements.

And that is something that has been seriously lacking in too many posts here at DU --

especially among our NOTABLE posters -- a call for action!!

Congratulations!!


:)

[xiamiam]

147. +1 million..nt

[Poboy]

154. kick for more exposure. -nt

[Poboy]

155. One more time up the flag pole. -nt

[Orsino]

159. Not a dime's worth of difference, eh?

Oversimplification obscures your valid points.

[bertman]

161. Too late to rec, but here's a BIG KICK. nt

[Blue_In_AK]

162. Too late for me to recommend this,

but I'm happy to kick it.

[Sixathome]

169. We have to be able to endure hardship to see change

We can't vote it in we have to make it happen. Struggle, hunger and pain. The Venezuelans are doing it as are others but not without opposition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvB_tX6TGXI
These people are brave! And Patriotic!
Look at Hands Off Venezuela to see what they do.

[BzaDem]

172. It's amazing how when people start asking for "honesty," they then immediately spew loads of BS

in the very same post!

:rofl:

[varelse]

173. How?

It's not really a matter of knowing what needs to be done - it's a matter of how to do it and survive. Living "off the grid" is only feasible as long as a mere .0001% of the population does it. How do we divorce the global corporate model and survive the backlash?