Cross-post from the Poverty forum: "Tumbleweeds and Crickets"

[Naturyl]

This forum (the Poverty forum), has just ONE active thread since Oct 21st. ONE active thread in more than ten days on a huge, hyperactive board like DU. A DEMOCRATIC website. A LIBERAL website. A PROGRESSIVE website.

Sorry for all the caps, but I think this does deserve emphasis. Are people really not aware that poverty has become a complete NON-ISSUE in the American Left? Sure, everybody makes sure to include some lip service about the poor and homeless every so often, but pretty much NOTHING is ever done and (at least in comparison to other issues) almost NO actual substantial discussion occurs. The bulk of it is honestly just Bobbolink and a couple of others, and the reaction they get for their trouble is usually just as much "not again" sighing and eye-rolling as anything else. "Oh jeez, won't they ever shut up?"

At one point in the history of the American left, poverty was as close to "THE" defining issue of progressivism as any single issue could get. Does anybody not realize that the right-wing legacy of Reagan has totally obliterated poverty from American consciousness - even in bastions of liberalism such as DU? More to the point, does anybody give a shit? The evidence seems to suggest not. Maybe, although they'd never admit it (even to themselves), some people are just a little relieved. The right-wing has so successfully obliterated interest in fixing poverty that we don't have to care anymore. It's unfixable, how tragic, let's move on.

Some people are probably rolling their eyes right now, thinking that I'm going on about my "pet issue" yet again and wishing I'd STFU already. And THAT is precisely what I'm talking about. When that attitude became possible on the left, that's precisely when poverty disappeared completely from the American political and moral radar. You'll never ever see racism, LGBT, abortion, or even marijuana threads get that kind of reaction - and while I'm very glad those issues are valued, I'm heartbroken that this one isn't.

Millions of virtually invisible Americans are paying the price for this, year after year, with no end and no help in sight.

This thread will not be K&Red to greatest. As far as my ego is concerned, that doesn't bother me a bit. But insofar as it reflects the fact that this is something far too many "progressives" no longer want to be bothered with, it's a shame.

[RandomThoughts]

1. Yes that is an important issue.

And not only poverty, but working conditions, and the systems that want to create scarcity and fears that lead to people being unable to move between jobs or work for better wages.

The poverty issue, and the excessive criminalization for profit are two very serious issues.

[leftstreet]

2. K&R

The most egregious, and tolerated, prejudice and bigotry is that against impoverished people

[Naturyl]

3. So true, and thank you for noticing.

Nobody in this country is targeted with more hate and bigotry than the poor and nobody gets *less* defense.

[leftstreet]

5. Yep. That's why I object to the Poverty Forum here

Although I'm sure the intention behind it was good. And probably rational given that the Democrats don't make poverty a platform issue.

But it suckz. As if impoverished people aren't marginalized enough



It isn't classy to bury class consciousness

[Naturyl]

11. Interesting point. I never thought of it as a dungeon.

Maybe the situation is even worse than I thought. Do you view the poverty forum as a dungeon to isolate and/or sequester discussion, like the 9/11 forum, gun forum, and Israel/Palestine forum?

Hadn't considered that, but maybe I need to.

[leftstreet]

13. Pretty much

But as I said, the intention behind it was probably in response to meeting everyone's needs

The Democratic party doesn't identify itself as representing the interests of impoverished people.

Hey, there's no Middle Class Forum here

:-)

[Naturyl]

15. Holy shit, good point.

Seriously, it's rare someone gives me an epiphany like that, because I usually catch these things myself. But that's spot-on. There's no "middle-class forum" here. There's a little tumbleweed-infested dungeon for poverty, and the entire rest of the board for people who actually matter.

Thanks for helping me further clarify my views on this. :)

[Lifelong Protester]

4. I'm giving this a K & R for the fact that if we don't wake up

we will all be talking a lot more about poverty because we will all be in it. When a progressive democratic senator from Wisconsin gets out spent by a millionaire who bought himself a senate seat for Christmas, we are in trouble, especially when the senator-elect can't WAIT to continue the tax breaks for those that outsource jobs (like himself).

There will be fewer and fewer jobs available for people to make a decent living. And that is how the corporate overlords want it.

[laughingliberal]

19. Took the words out of my mouth. More and more will be facing it as time goes on.

Wonder how many will fall into poverty before we can't be ignored any longer.

[readmoreoften]

6. Poverty is the logical result of neoliberalism. You can't end it without ending neoliberalism.

It's difficult to talk about "poverty" because people don't know what to say. They don't have any solutions because there is only one solution: end the neoliberal nightmare that creates the poverty in the first place.

Poverty is not an issue its THE ISSUE.

[Naturyl]

8. I almost agree.

We'd definitely have to end neoliberalism "as we know it," at least.

However, markets and the like could very well stay, as long as we can just get over the whole terror of "free riders" and pass a guaranteed minimum income. Most people refuse to acknowledge that poverty CAN be ended with a single bill - but no matter how hard they try not to admit it, that remains the case.

But I know I might as well be wishing for the moon there, so no need to remind me.

[readmoreoften]

23. Of course its theoretically possible to eradicate poverty under capitalism

But in order for that to happen, the profit takers would have to agree to giving back what they've taken. Since they own all the material apparatuses used in communication (TV, Cable, much of the internet now--something like 70% of internet use is now on private systems like Facebook) will not allow that to happen. The eradication of poverty--even the amelioration of poverty--would be such a radical accomplishment that it is no less likely than an overthrow of capitalism itself.

[Starry Messenger]

25. +100,000

[leftstreet]

27. +1

[laughingliberal]

20. +1,000,000 nt

[lonestarnot]

7. What bullshit. I didn't know we had a poverty forum! I'll be going there everyday to check it out.

Now see, maybe cross posting did a good service. Thanks.

[Naturyl]

10. Seriously?

I'm not sure whether your post is sarcasm. You didn't know the poverty forum existed?

Wow... if that's true, then I think it makes a far stronger case than my whole OP did.

How does any DUer not know the Poverty forum exists? What does that say about how unimportant this issue is considered on DU? Are there others who weren't aware also?

[PADemD]

17. I didn't know there was a Poverty Forum, too.

Seriously!

[lonestarnot]

18. I occasionally have time to run around w/o scissors visiting forums, but it is rare.

Spend most of my DU time in here and LBN. Occasionally to my own state. That's it. Sorry. Only so much time in one day.

[Naturyl]

21. Yeah, I'm not meaning to come down on you or anything

Sorry if I gave that impression. I was just pretty blown away by it. Maybe I shouldn't have been, I dunno. There are probably forums I don't know about either, although I think I've seen them all.

I guess it's just the fact that poverty *ought* to be such a huge issue on DU that the forum should be well-known. But "ought" ain't reality. Still, does anybody not know there is a 9/11 dungeon, a gun dungeon, and an Israel/Palestine one?

[kath]

33. A question - do threads on poverty that are posted in GDget transferred over tothe Poverty"Dungeon"

by the mods??? (the way that 9/11 posts do?) If so, that is really outrageous and extremely offensive on a board such as this.

[a la izquierda]

30. Seriously, I had no idea either...

and I am kept pretty well abreast on poverty issues. Shit, I feel like a total fool. Fail on my part :(

[Celtic Raven]

32. I didn't know about the Poverty Forum either

but will be visiting it from now on. :hi:

[Anser]

9. K&R..

I noticed that as well... I was thinking about posting something along the lines of: "After last nights Republican gains, this forum may gain in some popularity, considering what is coming..."

But it seemed silly, so I didn't.

I like your post much better.

[Naturyl]

12. The forum may gain some new members, but not necessarily any popularity.

The newly-poor will more likely just become invisible like the rest of us.

[NYC_SKP]

14. NYC_SKP Posting a Link to the Democratic Undergroud Poverty Forum Here. See Below.

Naturyl makes an excellent point... Let's visit Poverty more often.

Here's the Forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=230

:patriot:

[Naturyl]

16. Thanks.

I should have included the link myself, duh... hehe. I guess I'm so cynical it didn't even occur to me anyone would want to go there.

Thanks for the dose of optimism and the link. :)

[Bigmack]

22. Other issues are NOT more important, so don't get me wrong....

but poverty is only a symptom of the greater disease....

We have a very expensive Empire, with a predatory Capitalist economic system, and a willfully ignorant population.

If we change those things, poverty may not be cured, but certainly improved. I think that's why the "sexier" topics, like the wars and the bank rip-offs get more attention.

Until we control our military spending, our Imperialist overshoot, and our out-of-control predatory capitalists, improving poverty is a non-starter. Until we somehow educate our population about the real world rather than the fantasy world shown them by Fox, even the poor will continue to vote against their self-interest.

[lonestarnot]

24. Well said Big Mack.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. You know we also have a LABOR forum

Props to OS... and it is only active due to his effort.

I stick mostly to GD... at times going to some of the health forums...

It is not about lack of understanding of poverty... I get it... it is harsh... it is going through the roof. But I only have so much time.

Not making excuses, sorry.

Or I guess I am...

[NYC_SKP]

28. NYC_SKP Posting a Link to the Democratic Undergroud Labor Forum Here. See Below.

:hi:

Hi, all!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=367

:donut:

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. I added it and will visit

[JNelson6563]

31. Agreed, mostly.

Sadly, the discussion tends to go nasty early on by some the supposed greatest advocates. I'm not trying to discount the glaring absence of discussion on the matter, I should think such an issue would rank higher on a liberal/progressive DB.

Julie