Whatever happene to the much vaunted Hispanic and "youth" vote in Arizona?

[saracat]

Supposedly they would turn out in droves and save the Democrats. Instead we saw Raul Grijalva fight for his life and Terry Goddard(with 60% of the Hispanic vote) and the entire Democratic ticket go down in flames! Where did these voters go? They told us they would vote their own interests! Guess not.

[Telalim]

1. Large percentage of mexicans in Arizona are not citizens, and cannot vote

The majority of US citizens who are hispanic in Arizona are younger than 18.

[blondeatlast]

2. Gotta source? I'm a lifetime resident and I ain't buying that statistic, nt

[Telalim]

4. Source

http://cis.org/hispanic-vote-pre-2010

and

http://pewhispanic.org/states/?stateid=AZ

[saracat]

5. I do not see specific figures in regard to AZ voters in the source.

I see general statistics and a reference to SB1070.

[Telalim]

9. Updated source

[saracat]

3. But we have a calculated percentage of Hispanic voters who

were alleged to have been supporting the Democrats .They are registered voters and we do constant outreach to them. We also have a youth vote that is targeted by the YD's that theoretically combined would have given us the election.The youth vote for Obama was huge in 2008. But they did not vote down ticket because it wasn't important to them. I believe neither group turned out for the midterms.

[Telalim]

8. Arizona's hispanic US citizens are mostly under 18

Median age is 17. These are the so-called "anchor babies". Their parents aren't eligible to vote, but their kids are, or rather will, be. Remember Hispanics comprised only about 10-15% of Arizona's population until amnesty in the 1980's. That figure has gone higher because of the children of these immigrants, and then the rapid rise in illegal immigration beginning around 1990, and the concomitant increase in the number of babies born to illegals.

Why do you think teabaggers want to shut the border down and deport all illegals? They know the inevitability of a demographic shift if current policy is to remain unchanged.

This is the battle line for progressives. The SEIU and California pols get it; it's been difficult getting others on board.

[sandnsea]

10. 16% of reg AZ voters are Latino

About 30% of the state are Latino. It doesn't correlate that the Latinos who don't vote are all undocumented workers. It's a pretty bigoted thing to charge.

[Telalim]

11. Not bigoted at all.

The majority of hispanics are not eligible to vote in Arizona. That's a fact. Either because they are not citizens, or if they are, they are too young.

Again, Arizona's hispanic population in the 70's was something like 15%, roughly corresponding to its present registration numbers.

It's population is now about 35-40% hispanic.

[sandnsea]

18. I got actual statistics, not "something like"

The 2008 estimated Latino population in Arizona was at 30%. Latinos make up 16% of registered voters. So half of Latinos aren't registered.

You can't possibly state categorically that it's because they aren't citizens or are too young. You don't have a shred of evidence to make that claim. What's your reasoning for the Native Americans who aren't registered to vote?

[Telalim]

21. Just look at the Pew report on Arizona

It is what it is. The majority of hispanic US CITIZENS are young people, under the age of 18, and are too young to vote. In fact, the median age of NATIVE hispanics in Arizona is 17; for all Hispanics it is 35. The latter subset includes a great number of noncitizens, either legal or illegal.

That is simple math, if one is to believe the Pew report, and census figures.

[sandnsea]

23. I would if you'd link it n/t

[exboyfil]

27. Any idea of the documented/undocumented

split?

[exboyfil]

7. Sounds like lots of anchor babies

Sorry I said it.

By definition if they are Mexicans, then they are not U.S. citizens so it would be 100% of Mexicans are not citizens. Now U.S. citizens of Mexican descent and Mexican nationals - I wonder what that number would be. I haven't a clue what the actual percentages are, and I don't think anybody really does know.

What is self interest for a Latino voter? I would argue once you got past familial possibilities of citizenship/right to work, then it is in their best interest to oppose blanket amnesty/citizenship. Further I would argue, from a pragmatic view point, that giving up some of your rights such as being asked for your "papers" would benefit you economically if it means you have fewer individuals bidding on your job (for example construction worker).

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. If that baby was born in the US he is a citizen

or she is a citizen... 14 amendment... no matter the migratory status of parents.

[exboyfil]

19. Never said he/she was not a citizen

Just pointing out that the previous post implied lots of anchor babies and supported the rights argument about them (they serve to anchor non-citizens in our country). Didn't say I agreed.

The child is not a Mexican unless the child claims to be a Mexican later based upon the citizenship of his/her parents. I guess you could argue for dual citizenship (parents assert their rights for Mexican citizenship for the child while the child is still a minor).

[lunamagica]

22. "Giving up some of your rights" is not a progressive value. But empathy and compassion are.

Immigration reform is a high priority for most hispanics. Why? One reason, loyalty. Many benefited from the amnesty given in the 80s, and don't forget where they came from, and don't think "I got mine, screw you".

Compassion. They know from experience the horrific poverty in Latin America and don't want people to be sent back to it.

Besides, there's strength in numbers. Having more citizens of Hispanic origin benefits the community

[exboyfil]

26. Then lets go with a EU type of open border with

Mexico and Canada. What happens then? Will the U.S. become a better country because of the more virtuous individuals of Mexican descent living and working in this country? You seem to imply this by saying that more Latino individuals benefit a community. I always thought good citizens whatever their background benefits a community.

I view U.S. citizenship alot like union membership, tenure, credentialization (requiring degrees), tariffs, and licensing (doctors, lawyers). They are all methods to limit competition for your job. I am sorry, but I would like U.S. citizens to have first crack at those jobs (this includes H1-B Visas as well). The union members got theirs, and they sure do not want to see scabs taking their jobs.

Lets do a 1980s style blanket amnesity. In another 20-30 years we will be having this very same discussion once again. We will tell those who have stood in line - sorry we prefer line cutters. As these individuals become citizens, the next wave that will undercut wages will start and the cycle repeats until equalization is achieved.

I don't think giving up your rights is a correct response, but even your rights have an economic value. That is what I was pointing out. You give up some of your rights when you join the service for example. Also to enter certain buildings. Lots of other examples - showing your face for your DMV photo for example. Handing your union vote over to the union steward is another example.

So long as we have a porous border and until equalization of wages occur, their will always be individuals bidding down wages - especially where the monopolistic barriers to entry are so low like on the border.

I am not sure what will fix the Latin American problem. Since NAFTA we are running a huge trade deficit with Mexico, and has it worked to stabilize the situation? Lots of countries do more with far less than Mexico. Emigration and remittances are a state policy for Mexico. Give it a few more years, and the maquiladoras jobs are going to look attractive even for U.S. citizens. My old plant just closed and shipped all those jobs to Mexico.

Anything short of completely throwing the borders open and letting anyone who wishes to come into this country and work or access our social services is a form of "I got mine, screw you". Is their any country actually doing this right now? Can I go to Germany and demand that I enter their health care and social security system? In effect that is happening in the U.S. right now in a limited form with Mexican citizens.

The only thing I know is that I am insisting that my children take Spanish in our public school. It is one of the few times in which I did not give them choices in their education. The only way this is going to work out is if we find a way to integrate into some sort of economic unit that extends our employee rights and environmental laws into Latin America. It is a huge pill to swallow - our country is going to need to become bilingual and probably eventually form some sort of argot language. The big question is "Can we save everyone?"

[pampango]

29. "Then lets go with a EU type of open border with Mexico and Canada. What happens then?"

Yeah, we sure wouldn't want to live like Europeans, would we?

They seem to make open borders work quite well as a part of progressive societies that provide effective national health care, a strong social safety net, strong unions, and effective market and financial regulations. On the other hand, you can't find a country that is obsessed with keeping "others" out that is also a progressive society.

You won't find much support in Europe for kind of borders we have with Canada and Mexico, except on the far right which is still fighting to reinstate intra-European border controls and tariffs between European countries, so far without any success.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. NAFTA side agreements

not that they have been enforced, would allow citizens of Canada, the US and Mexico to cross borders and get jobs without any hassles.

As I said, never enforced, what do you think the EU modelled their border status on?

[lunamagica]

36. Why are you comparing America to other countries? America is a nation

of immigrants. Why should America adopt *your* view of immigration? The problem with Illegal immigration is due to the fact that nowadays is impossible to get a visa unless you are rich, marry, or have a close relative (parent, child) to sponsor you. The hysterical complain "they will take out jobs away" and "There' no room for more" has been heard virtually since the birth of this nation, but immigration worked and and made this country prosper.

The current xenophobic immigration system is broken. Immigration reform with a path to citizenship is urgent. The legalization of undocumented workers will bring them out of the shadows, give them a chance to grow and prosper; thus benefiting everyone. The way to avoid it happening again 20 years from now is to reform the law where ordinary people who want to work but don't have American spouses or family can find a way to legally immigrate. Believe me, nobody thinks "I could emigrate legally, but I rather 'cut the line' and live illegally in America...yes, that's better for me, that's what I want". Being an undocumented alien means living a hard, hard life without any rights. the trip alone is horribly dangerous and those who dare to take it know there's a high probability to die a horrific death. Do you think they would take such risk if they felt there was another way to come? They come illegally not to "cut the line", but because that's the only way they can come.

BTW immigration reform with a path to citizenship is on President Obama's agenda. It was on his platform as a candidate. Harry Reid's stand on it is what probably saved his Senate seat. Your view of immigration is shared by the right, not the left.

Lastly, granting citizenship to the undocumented currently living here would be a brilliant move to increase Democratic voters. Why do you think the GOP is so against it? They fear millions of new Democratic voters. It could mean a fatal blow to them

[Ozymanithrax]

12. Not according to the Census.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/04000.html

Hispanics or Latinos are those people who classified themselves in one of the specific Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino categories listed on the Census 2000 questionnaire -"Mexican, Mexican Am., Chicano," "Puerto Rican", or "Cuban"-as well as those who indicate that they are "other Spanish/Hispanic/Latino." Persons who indicated that they are "other Spanish/Hispanic/Latino" include those whose origins are from Spain, the Spanish-speaking countries of Central or South America, the Dominican Republic or people identifying themselves generally as Spanish, Spanish-American, Hispanic, Hispano, Latino, and so on.
Origin can be viewed as the heritage, nationality group, lineage, or country of birth of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before their arrival in the United States.

People who identify their origin as Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino may be of any race. Thus, the percent Hispanic should not be added to percentages for racial categories. NonHispanic White persons are those who responded "No, not Spanish/Hispanic/Latino" and who reported "White" as their only entry in the race question. More complete tallies that show race categories for Hispanics and nonHispanics separately are also available.
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2009 (b) 30.8% 15.8%

[Telalim]

14. Census counts all person, including noncitizens NM

[sandnsea]

6. You live there

Maybe you should have done something besides kneecap the Democrats if you expected people to vote FOR them.

[saracat]

13. As has been previously substantiated on this board , I did.

I notice no one has addressed the question of where the votes went. Where were the Hispanic and youth votes?

[laughingliberal]

15. I remember nothing BUT Saracat pushing constantly for the Democrats running in AZ.

I've never seen one post of hers that disparaged any Democrat running in AZ and I defy you to find any.

[frylock]

37. yeah, because hispanic and young voters in arizona all use DU as a source for information..

get real FFS.

[TygrBright]

16. Possibly the cops with the brown-o-meters hanging around polling places? n/t

[saracat]

20. I do wonder about Latino vote suppression.

[OHdem10]

24. You have to have continuing activities in they participate

feel a part. Just expecting them to show up to vote
when they were ignored for 2years. Things need to
change in the party.

[Greyhound]

25. Another failure of the Arizona State Democratic Party and golf club.

They're quite happy to achieve nothing while making sure no 'troublemakers' get anywhere.

[Le Taz Hot]

28. Yeah,

I was told the "youth vote" would turn out for Prop. 19 in California too. Guess what didn't happen?

[AlphaCentauri]

30. They have lost faith in government n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

31. They can enjoy the government they're going to get in the next two years then. eom

[Coventina]

32. My anecdotal evidence: the Hispanic voters are scared

Sheriff Brown-Shirt & his minions (in uniform and out) are out to harrass all people who look Hispanic (including some Asians, I kid you not).

They don't want trouble for themselves or their families. Our local "law enforcement" (especially the MCCSO) is out of control and under no-one's control. People are scared. That's what Hispanic voters were telling us, when we were out trying to GOTV.

[exboyfil]

35. In this day and age of ubiquitous

cell phone cameras, tiny cameras from Best Buy etc. is any documented residing person afraid of this type of situation? All I see are the possibility of dollar bills for any sort of harrassment. I would think the Democrats would actually run stings. It is back to Donna Brazile and the dogs chasing voters away from the polls in Florida. If you are going to make serious accusations, then you better have the evidence to back it up. Otherwise you look like an idiot.

[Coventina]

38. True story: A friend of my sister spent the night in jail because he looked Hispanic

(he is actually Asian)

He was pulled over for a broken tail light and his legal residency was questioned. He was adopted from out of the country as a toddler, but is a naturalized citizen (he's now an adult). His driver's license was not "proof" of his citizenship, so he was hauled off to jail until his family could produce his citizenship papers.

This is the kind of crap that is going on in AZ right now. Should people allow themselves to be intimidated by this? No, but it's happening. I can't blame people for being scared. I say, if things haven't improved by the next election that we Dems volunteer as escorts to the polls or something.

on edit: grammar

[exboyfil]

39. Did he talk with a journalist?

Would be a good story for the newspaper. It would be nice if reporters would do their jobs. Every instance of improper use of this law would be a nail in the coffin for it. I do not like a society of "papers please".

[Coventina]

40. I am not sure what is going on with that case, I'll have to ask my sis

The one problem with the whole thing is that this guy does have a police record. Nothing serious or long, but he has been arrested once for a bar fight and once for failure to appear. So, that makes him a criminal with a "rap sheet". So when my sister appealed to our uncle (a retired Phx PD officer) for help/advice, he dismissed the whole thing as "well, he's obviously a scumbag who deserves to spend the night in jail if he can't immediately prove his citizenship".

Having any kind of criminal record gets you pretty much zero sympathy with the press and/or public.


edit: spelling

[CBR]

33. ...

[Quixote1818]

41. Hispanic vote came through Big Time in Nevada, CA and Colorado. nt