President Obama, a sleeping giant was awakened yesterday - and he or she will challenge you in 2012.

[RiverStone]

I don't know who it is yet, but I guarantee that someplace last night the wheels have started to turn on the machinery to challenge President Obama from within our party in 2012.

I worked like hell to elect him, and the good news is if he takes our ass kicking as an insult - and drops this arcane notion to compromise with right wing wackos, he can make a second half comeback - and I'll work like hell again to re-elect Barack Obama.

But if in the next 6 months I see and hear more of this bi-partisan "I'll be the good statesman" bullshit; I'll be looking for the next Howard Dean, or to Howard himself for another 50 state strategy. Want to see where the White House's strategy got us the last 2 years? Follow Rahm Emanuel --- he left before the red tide rolled in.

We lost yesterday not because of our Democratic ideas - we lost because of apathy. Some man or woman out there is planning to engage the wing-nuts and Tea Party extremists with a fight worthy of my (and your) enthusiasm. That person is who I will vote for as a progressive in 2012 if I don't see some real "no more compromise" attitude in President Obama.

Find the fight you had in 2008 Mr. President - grab your basketball - it's time for a full court press!!!

[BzaDem]

1. You act like Obama gives a shit about your threats.

I think he would be just fine not running for re-election. He is going to run for re-election, out of responsibility to the party and the country, and to preserve the legislative victories he has enacted. But if he lost a primary challenge (which won't happen, despite your post), he would honestly probably feel liberated.

You act like you can punish politicians in office, when in reality you just end up hurting yourself.

[RiverStone]

4. I think you under estimate what a grass roots Democratic movement can achieve

The party already "punished" itself enough yesterday - minus a few comebacks (see Jerry Brown). I believe the passion is still there in our party - I just think the message has become too diluted.

The politicians you speak of my not care what I say or post, but multiply this "no compromise" sentiment by millions - and they will care and they will notice!

[BzaDem]

25. Why do you keep assuming that a losing candidate who then goes on to the private sector to make five

times as much, is somehow "punished?" If you asked them in a few months (after they get a lobbyist gig) if they felt "punished," they would probably laugh in your face. You would certainly be punished by Republican policies, but a losing candidate-turned-lobbyist would not be negatively affected at all.

Your post indicates how a grassroots movement can punish itself, but not so much how it can punish politicians.

[CBR]

28. You are underestimating how important the black vote is to electing

Dems.

[ampad]

51. Racially insensitive

Call if for what it is. They think the black vote will fall in line lock step with them as it has for years. Black have been voting for the white candidate for years and here comes Obama and that all changed. It is not going to change in 2012 either. If there is anyone stupid enough to challenge the president for the nomination it will be a duzzy. I suggest a costco size supply of pop corn and plenty of beer. Of course it will never happen because it seems that most politicians are smarter than the DU obama hate crowd. Feingold came out immediately and said uh no way, the man is not stupid. At any rate I think it is time that people allow the delusional to have their delusions, their threats, their I told you so and so on. At this point that is all they have. Pathetic but hey whatever.

[whathehell]

5. You act like you know what he cares about.

You can't "punish politicians in office"?

That's funny -- He just DID get punished, didn't you notice?

[BzaDem]

26. You think losing the House is punishment to him?

To the extent he cares about personally being President, losing the House likely ensured his reelection, as it did for Clinton.

If you think that is somehow punishment, it just shows the extent of cognitive dissonance that occurs when people like you don't get what they want (kind of like a person who hits their computer when it doesn't do what the person wants).

[whathehell]

27. What's with all the hostility?

"people like you"? -- You don't know WHO I am or what I supposedly "wanted".


Take a breather, BzaDem..and before speculating on me and "what I wanted"...What did YOU want out of the election.

For the record, Yes, I imagine he WAS upset at losing the house...Just because Clinton was able to make a winner out of a massive loss, doesn't mean Obama will.

[BzaDem]

29. "Just because Clinton was able to make a winner out of a massive loss, doesn't mean Obama will."

Perhaps. If unemployment is 9.5% in 2012, he might very well lose even though Republicans picked up the House.

However, I think if we kept the House by a few seats, having all the responsibility but none of the power, he would have almost certainly lost re-election.

So just because losing the House doesn't guarantee re-election doesn't mean losing the house wasn't incredibly helpful to his re-election. It might not be a sufficient condition, but it is probably a necessary condition.

[whathehell]

31. I'm sorry that we lost the house

but I agree that a "saving grace" might be the Repukes having to take some repsonsibility.

Having said that, I'm not sure that it was a necessary condition..It does, after all, give him less power to get things through, not that it was ever easy, given the blue dogs and repuke intransigence.

[BzaDem]

33. It gives him less power than he has now, but not less than he would have had if he kept the House by

a few votes.

He wouldn't have gained seats (or lost fewer than 20) no matter what he did.

[whathehell]

53. Twenty, though

would have counted as more than a "few", I think and I imagine we'd be better off.

Having said that, don't get me wrong, I'm not one of the people who think that it's "all his fault". I think he does bear some responsibility, but their were certainly other big factors at play.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. +1

:thumbsup:

[BzaDem]

23. If you want Republicans that "work for you," go right ahead.

You seem to confuse "working for us" with "getting your way."

[DrDan]

2. I have to disagree a bit - I think Obama did some good things

during his two years. But one thing he did not do well was control the message. He allowed the R's to do that. He never convinced a majority that he was making progress.

[Syrinx]

3. a Democratic challenger in the primary would guarantee a Republican president in 2012

[RiverStone]

7. Then what type of house cleaning do you suggest needs to happen?

Our apathetic base needs to see that no longer will it be business as usual in response to the rightie wackos from a President with an attitude!

I said I would work like hell to re-elect Obama, if --- thats IF -- he makes the changes that will not allow history to repeat! I need to see that he and his team "gets it"!

[Syrinx]

8. I agree that Obama needs to get tougher

And I'm hoping someone will shake some sense into him. But if he gets a challenger in the Democratic primary, history suggests that we may end up with President Sarah Palin. And I certainly don't want to subject anyone to that.

[RiverStone]

9. I know about the history - but you do realize how many bigots just got elected?

Yea, the odds makers would say a challenge from within the party of a sitting president is a long shot. But history has not seen the likes of bigotry and intolerance that just got elected. Wait till the electorate gets a dose of Rand Paul's rants etc.

We need to push back immediately and with such force, that on principal alone - our cause is worth fighting for. I'd rather lose standing by our principals, then give one fucking inch to these intolerant bastards from the crazy TPer movement.

And I would not under estimate the historic possibility that a new "grass roots" movement could sweep across the nation with more force then any warmed over repub tea bagger could imagine - including those Dems on The Hill used to the status quo.

[Syrinx]

14. I agree with your sentiments. It's a gamble that could work. Maybe.

[RiverStone]

16. Yep back

:fistbump:

Lets hope we don't have to go that route, but having a viable plan B makes sense. It could work...

[notesdev]

21. Depends on the challenger

If it's Hillary Clinton, she'd have a chance to both defeat Obama in the primaries and win the general.

[dionysus]

32. .

:spray:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

46. Says the guy who thinks stomping on a woman's head is a "love tap"

Your judgment isn't exactly the best.

[notesdev]

49. Isn't it?

I called the election results precisely. The final Senate count is precisely what I said it would be, and the losses in the house are precisely in the middle of the range I estimated.

So maybe - just maybe - I'm just a little more in tune with what the voting public wants, and what it will take to elect Democrats in the future, than the stampeding herd on this board you are a part of.

[DFLforever]

10. Why don't you join the Repukes in this (if you haven't yet)

I'm sure it's now their main goal as well.

I guess what they say is right: self-styled progressives are the first to bail when the going gets tough.

[RiverStone]

12. Where the fuck did you read "bail" in my post?

No DFLforever, self styled progressives don't walk in lock-step!

I have been working for and in this big blue tent of ours for over 30 voting years, and bailing the last thing I'd do - join the pukes??? That's what you say when someone is critical of our party? Talk about intolerant.

[DFLforever]

15. I think selling out the president qualifies as bailing

And I've been voting 50 years for a quite a few
presidents none of whom were anywhere near as
competent as this one.

[JTFrog]

17. +1 n/t

[RiverStone]

18. Being critical of our President is not abandonment - it's what (IMO) he needs to hear to win!

Compared to the criminal regime that preceded him, he is light-years ahead in competency. What's so damn frustrating is how can such a man of "competency" has lost touch with what he needs to do to WIN back the passion that was so lacking in yesterday's voting. Dems sat on their ass by the hundreds of thousands yesterday.

He needs to re-connect with the grass roots movement that got him elected. Less calculating, more fight. Lots more!!!

[DFLforever]

19. It's a free country - criticsm of the president is par

But what he needs right now more than anything else is SUPPORT. Because plenty of people are out to destroy him in any way they can. He's particularly vulnerable right now after the loss of the House. What I know is that I don't want to play even an insignificant minute part in any of that shit.

[corpseratemedia]

20. not being sarcastic but asking :

Do you think this strategy of party "bipartisanship" (it isn't just Obama) with republicans/teabaggers who are racial segregationists and obstructionists (that's how they've acted. that's how they've campaigned, that's how they're followers think) will help OUR base come out and vote in '12?

Our base IMO will not support that. It is masochistic and not in the spirit of our party to say the least. It will turn the base off in droves. So many of the centrist/blue dog Dems lost, people do not like to identify with people who appear to like being bullied.

[AndrewP]

48. But....but....your being mean!

Honest to God, I'm not sure why some people get so hysterical at criticism. You have a great point. There needs to be a grass roots movement to get liberal values to the front of the agenda, and to get reasonable people elected to office.

Obviously President Obama is a very smart man who has actually done a lot of good in office. But his message has been weak. That's pretty obvious by what happened this week. In the real world, half of the battle is pure politics. He was let down by his base, and his base was let down by him. As much as I like the guy, I'm not interested in seeing the same thing happen in 2012. I can't be alone in that thought.

[panzerfaust]

11. Yep

Instead of dissing the progressives the president should embrace us, else why not take a flier on someone willing to actually CHANGE the direction we are headed in.

[DFLforever]

13. I swear DU is the most delusional political site on the

internet.

but it's always good for laughs late at night.

[Ikonoklast]

43. That sleeping giant' better wake up, as they only have a few scant months

to ramp up their campaign.

Money, people, support both political within the party, and popular support with the electorate...


Must be that magical thinking thing going on with the doom and gloom crowd.

[lunatica]

24. The 'sleeping giant' analogy is just plain stupid

It sounds as stupid today as it did when Bush said it.

[RiverStone]

35. How about a dozing mastodon or a slumbering whale?

Call stupid what you will, but what's really stupid is to brush off our worst House loss in 60+ years. Shrub underestimated the reaction of his electorate to his actions, I just don't want president Obama to do the same.

We as a party can fix this, but it will take a sea change in attitude!

[scheming daemons]

30. There will be no serious primary challenge to Obama

the OP is clueless.

Your bedwetting is hilarious and tragic at the same time.

[Erose999]

34. Rec'd and cosigned. But Obama has been laying on that bi-partisan crap pretty thick since the other

night.

Rather than reminding the media that we kept the senate and that most progressive dems kept their seats, he just said that "we took a shellacking". I don't know about our president, but I'm counting last night as a win, or at least a draw, since the narrative in the media for the past 6 or 8 months has been "Republicans sweep both houses". John "Agent Orange" Boehner doesn't have a mandate for doodley squat... unless we (whatever "we" even means anymore concerning my relationship with the (d) party) give it to him.

[RiverStone]

38. Yea - his post loss press conference was far from a battle cry

More words of capitulation....

Acknowledging we lost - fine. But we lost because we lost our message, and in turn - hundreds of thousands of votes. Time to stand on a line that will NOT be crossed the next 2 years - enough lines have already been blurred.

As I said in my OP, I worked like hell to elect him and if he inspires again like in 08 - I'd do the same in a heartbeat. I will vote Dem who ever is our nominee, but it may be a true progressive - if Obama does not read the news (or his handlers read DU).

[SemiCharmedQuark]

36. Why was this giant sleeping instead of getting out the vote for Grayson and Feingold?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

37. Why was this giant sleeping instead of getting out the vote for Grayson and Feingold?

[TwilightGardener]

39. This is dumb. Another DU overreaction to an expected loss of the House.

[RiverStone]

40. Only twice in the last 100 years have the Dems been so out of balance...

In the House - last time was 1948.

Sorry, I see not the overreaction or anything dumb about it.

We need a BIG fucking REACTION.

[TwilightGardener]

44. Tough times, big discontentment. Still have Senate and WH. As I've said,

OVERREACTION. When times get tough, DUers abandon ship or call for Mama and Papa Clinton to save them. Pathetic.

[inna]

45. I didn't know that. What about the mid-nineties when the Repugs took the Congress?

[kentuck]

41. Just like Kennedy did with Carter?

I wonder?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

42. Also, where was this giant in 2004 when Dean actually ran for president?

[Gold Metal Flake]

47. After Dean announced that he would break up the corporate media giants,...

...the media and their puppets used a doctored audio snippet to politically assassinate him.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

50. and again I ask, "where was the sleeping giant?"

Because this election is not going to be easier than that one. In fact, with citizens united, it will be harder.

[Gold Metal Flake]

52. I didn't say I agreed with the "sleeping giant" theory...

...I was simply reminding people how Dean was specifically targeted and driven out of the primary by a corrupt corporate-owned RW controlled media machine.