Why I am Afraid

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

Economic attitudes/beliefs on DU are only marginally better than the economic attitudes/beliefs on RW sites and there is a lot of overlap.

On creationism and human rights and wars we are (in aggregate) miles ahead of the average internet voice.

On economics we are better but we do not lap the field.

There is considerable (minority, but considerable) support on DU for economic ideas chiefly associated with the teachings of Glen Beck. (eg. hyper-inflation prospects) Nobody on DU agrees with Glen Beck about anything else... only the economy. But since the economy is the big issue we face that's pretty scary.

If there is some support in the community of bright, informed, educated and progressive folks on DU for the worst of RW economic theory then what hope is there for the nation?

Keynesian economics is controversial on DU, whether folks know it or not.

Milton Friedman monetarism has considerable support here, though not by that name.

First, the current deficit is helping our long-term debt picture, not hurting it. There is very little that can be cut. The deficit can only be tackled by increasing revenue someday and the key to that is increasing GDP growth and the only thing that can plausibly jump-start GDP in our current circumstance is government borrowing and spending.

Second, no matter how much money the Fed "creates" it will not lead to inflation unless it makes it into the broader economy. And it cannot. With private borrowing way down only government borrowing and spending can create dollars and then put all of those dollars into the economy.

There is no inflation "danger." The truth of the matter is that there is no inflation hope.

Because, and this is the big one, without inflation we are doomed. Seriously. Doom-ed.

Inflation is the single most important thing we need right now. There is no plausible risk of hyper-inflation and it's a phenomenon we would have little trouble countering. There is a plausible risk of deflation, which is every bit as bad, and we have almost no effective policy tools to deal with it.

And this is not a crack-pot view. This is the view of all progressive economists, a group that 1) is not a mouthpiece for entrenched monied interests, 2) cares about the welfare of ordinary people and 3) has been closest to right about everything that has happened the last 2-4 years.

[pnwmom]

1. Excellent post, thank you! n/t

[madmax]

2. Found these links

What do you think of these sources?

http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/president-obama-where-are-progressive-economists
http://www.progressiveliving.org/economics_frameset.htm
http://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2010/09/progressive-economists-dont-kill-jobs.html

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. I like economic populist okay

Not familiar with the other two.

I like Krugman and Stiglitz a lot.

Krugman's daily blog offers a wonderful piecemeal education... like reading any daily blog, over the weeks and months his full view comes into focus.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

[IDHow]

6. Krugman and Stiglitz are great ones

Also, Dean Baker. Are you familiar with him?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. Yes, I've read him at The American Prospect

One of the folks on the right side.

I don't agree with anyone about everything... though I'd be hard-pressed to think of an economic disagreement with Krugman.

[madmax]

13. No but, Kurt_and_Hunter's post

has sure piqued my interest in solutions rather than just bitching about Boehner's tan.

Norman Lear also wrote a great piece today here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-lear/enough-already-with-the-a_b_778765.html

Didn't know he was founder of PFAW. What I do know fills a thimble.

[madmax]

8. My husband is a huge fan of 'the Krug'.

I read his column - sometimes. I have one of his books which is a compilation of his columns, 'The Great Unraveling', better read it again. I'll check out Stigliz, haven't heard of him but maybe the he has.

Spent too much time reading books about Bush which focused on his many short comings but, little on substance of how and why.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. Hi daily blog is even better than his columns

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

He's more free on the blog. (He seems keenly aware that his NYT column is for a very wide audience and to be influential it has to be a little watered down.)

[madmax]

15. He may be reading the blog.

He and I need to talk more, lol.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

17. THANKS

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Kick, rec. This requires a closer look. nt

[Steely_Dan]

5. Another Excellent Post, Kurt.

[disillusioned73]

7. K&R

:dem:

[madmax]

10. k&r

[Subdivisions]

11. Please link to these progressive economists. Thank you. n/t

[femrap]

14. What do you think of

Roubini?

To be frank, I don't think anything is going to get us out of this economic mess. The slate will have to be cleaned and we will have to start anew. And it will be and is very painful. The repugnants will make it even more painful by spitting on the poor, the working class, and the former middle class.

My current concern is commodity prices which have increased some 30%. Sugar hit an all time high recently. People can't live without food.

I believe the things that people need will increase in price. Their homes will lose value. We will be a 3rd World Nation. China owns us.

It's so very different today from the days of FDR...so much work is automated. FDR paid dudes to shovel snow...he provided the shovels....at the time one guy said, 'If you want to create jobs, give them spoons to shovel with.' Now snow plows do this work. One job creation idea is to replace our existing and old water lines....please, no more roads.

We need a new technology....something to jump start us. But I fear it's just going to be WW3 and this time nukes will be used probably at the beginning instead of at the end.

Our nation manufactures so little...a third of our wealth is 'fancy financial creations.' Not good. It will get worse before it gets better.

Fasten your seat belts, we're in for a bumpy ride. And don't think for one moment I enjoy seeing this view of the world. I just do.

[madmax]

16. Roubini link

http://www.roubini.com/

Never heard of him - I'm in the tall weeds regarding economics so I'm using google and everything posted at this link as a starting point.

It's up to me to educate myself and no excuse for stupidity with the available technology. No excuses that they didn't have the book in the library, etc.

[femrap]

18. He called the previous Crash.

Marc Faber (I think that's the spelling) is another one that looks at our reality. I think the MSM called them Drs. Doom and Gloom.

Economics is so far from being a science. It's a social science....so an 'attitude' can prevail in humans and change everything. Like now, people aren't spending. And that ends this crap about 'growth.' An economy simply can't 'grow' forever. Life is cyclical....what goes up eventually goes down.

The US has seen its day, I believe, and is now declining. And of course there is a limit to what mankind can do to Mother Nature before she announces, 'ENOUGH.'

I recently read that The Three Gorges Dam in China is at capacity...who knows if it will hold? How long before our oceans are dead?

If I may, I would encourage you to read some of John Kenneth Galbraith's books. I so admire him....an economist with a heart and soul. His son is teaching at UTX in Austin, I believe...and he's in the same vein.

This Paradigm of Growth has reached its limits, imho.

There is another book about the beginning of the Federal Reserve system....something like 'The Island of Dr. Jeckel.' I can't remember. It's eye-opening...reads like a political thriller at times.

And remember most of economics is common sense, imho. The more convoluted a writer or supposed 'expert' makes it, the more he/she is bullshitting.

There's a woman who works at Oppenheimer as an Analyst....she has been spot on...and damned if I can remember her name. I don't watch CNBC because it's just propaganda.

One last thing, I signed up for Roubini's emails...sends little quips everyday and then there is his big 360 for the week with an array of articles that you can pick and choose from.

Good luck with your education...you'll have fun. I learn something everyday. Oh...and the G-20 meet next week....that's the Financial Meeting of the top 20 countries in the world. With what the currency and commodity markets have been doing, it should be 'exciting.' If a G-20 can be called that. Sugar recently hit an all time high...I just went to buy some Xmas candy...and boy is that price rise starting to show. I thought I could beat it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Well yuo can thank Friedman for making

that view popular even here.

Been reading the World is Flat... and he is really good at making these views so mainstream and fighting Keynes.

Yes it should be read with care (has holes, but you knew that)... but this is the popularized version of the new economy.

And I join you in your fear... and I need to finish reading the World is Flat... for the propaganda it is.