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Why I keep harping on the treatment of gays by Democrats.

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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 04:57 PM
Original message
Why I keep harping on the treatment of gays by Democrats.
http://cnx.com/?p=1341

It’s official: the gay vote was way down this year. And the percentage of gay voters voting Republican also jumped from 19% to 31%. In a number of close districts, that’s more than enough to shift a seat from one party to the other.

If you want to know why we’ve been so critical of President Obama and the Democrats for the cavalier way that they’ve treated LGBT Americans and our rights over the past two years, it can best be summed up in a letter I sent to one of my “Democratic” politicians explaining why I would not donate to, campaign for, or vote for him ever again after a very homophobic vote and campaign robocall.

I won’t quote the whole letter, and I won’t publicly announce which politician I sent it to, since it was a very personal letter from me. I had been an active supporter and campaign worker for this politician and I wanted to put our issues into personal terms for him.

In August of 2007, on my 38th birthday to be exact, I was hospitalized for acute diverticulitis which eventually led to a ruptured bowel requiring over a month’s hospitalization, three surgeries, a total of one year recuperating, and over a quarter million dollars in hospital bills. The experience, including my inability to work that whole time, all but bankrupted us and forced us into a foreclosure that will most likely lead to our house being sold at sheriff’s sale. Despite all that, the thing that still gets me angry is not the broken insurance system in this State and nationwide or the precarious financial situation the mortgage crisis leaves us in, but how Bryan was treated during that time.



For the early part of my stay in the hospital, Bryan was treated by the medical staff as just another stranger off the street. We had prepared Medical Powers of Attorney years before, hoping to never need to use them, and Bryan brought copies to the hospital shortly after I was admitted. For most of the first several days I was knocked out with painkillers almost around the clock. I wasn’t able to understand any briefings that my doctors would give me on my condition because I was either knocked unconscious or in such intense pain that I couldn’t hear straight. Bryan would ask questions on my behalf but the hospital staff would refuse to answer. He tried to stay apprised of my treatment and intercede on my behalf regarding some aspects of that treatment, but the staff refused to listen to him. Even the Medical Power of Attorney was refused. Only after we dragged my lawyer, a Notary, and one of the nursing staff to my room, took me off of my painkillers long enough to be legally lucid, and I signed another copy of the exact same document in front of them was he ever treated as any kind of relative, let alone a spouse of more than a decade.

Sadly, those days were the good ones. Some days Bryan couldn’t even attempt to intercede on my behalf or comfort me at my side because a security guard at the hospital would refuse him entrance since he “wasn’t legally related to me.” Only my spouse could visit me at the hour he would arrive, the only time of day he could come see me after working a double shift at his job. Even after we sorted out the Power of Attorney to the medical staff’s satisfaction, he could still be blocked at the door just because “you aren’t really married.” Bryan couldn’t even get medical leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act to tend to my affairs and make sure he was there for me because “you aren’t really married.”

The stock answer I imagine you would give me is that the New Jersey Civil Unions law fixed all that, and that it would never happen again. Sadly, that is not the case. We are in a Civil Union, and it has done nothing to solve the problem. At one point Bryan related the story to me about him slamming a copy of our certificate of Union onto the desk of a woman in the billing department who was refusing to speak with him. Her response was the exact same one that the security guard kept giving him: “you aren’t really married.”

Please put yourself in his place for a moment. Imagine that your wife is in the hospital. The staff won’t tell you what’s wrong with her, what kind of treatment she’s being given, won’t let you make decisions when she’s unable to, and quite often not even let you into her room. They’re doing this because you were married in a Church or by a politician instead of registering a Civil Union under Chapter 103. Without that Civil Union, you are not “really” husband and wife.



I keep hearing from gay marriage opponents that their only objection is to the word “marriage” being used to define our relationship. Your arguments seem to be along these lines. The problem with that argument is that the word “marriage” is the problem. We went through all of that because our legal relationship is defined as a “Civil Union” and not a “marriage.”

That’s it in a nutshell. No one who hasn’t been in our position can really understand how tiny little things affect real lives, and how your “fringe issue” is someone’s life and death.

So think twice before you belittle our worries, our concerns, and our fight for our rights. And don’t be surprised if we fight back.

Article Copyright 2010 2,000 Monkeys With Typewriters, LLC, used with permission. May not be reproduced or excerpted without prior, explicit written permission.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. K & R nt
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. The best I can personally do right now
is treat everyone as they should be treated. I'm sorry for everything else but I will never treat anyone badly.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. That's all we can personally ask of anyone.
At least, of rank and file. Our leaders need to be held to a higher standard.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. k & r
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. I sure hope everyone fights for what is right
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Recommend!!! n/t
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. I hear you.
Poor people are in exactly the same boat. We can understand how you feel. We';re being ignored, too. K&R.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wow. I'm so glad my hospital stay wasn't like that.
But it could have been, very easily. I don't even have a Civil Union.
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foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well stated
I can't describe how sick and angry I feel when our very lives are dismissed as "pet issues". People who do that haven't a clue, or a heart. Then they wonder why we're so disgruntled. :puke: :banghead:
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. KNR
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Recommend
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. If I'd been in that hospital, I'd have had the same experience...
I'm not married. Unless I'm reading yr post wrong, there's a huge problem with any hospital that doesn't allow anyone other than the spouse of the patient to visit or talk to the doctors.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. K/R
:dem: :dem: :dem: :dem: Fight back and fight hard.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. Plainly put, it is oppression.
To come between people in such a way is obviously unjust.

There are so many things that need to change.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R
:hug: :loveya:

Will fight along side you to the bitter end.

This is so not like a pony.
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Swede Atlanta Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. Wow....my sincere regrets for what you went through
It surprises me this occurred in New Jersey which is a fairly BLUE, rational state (for the most part).

I actually had a very different experience here at a hospital in Atlanta. I went in for the removal of a colon cancer tumor and they asked for my emergency contact. I gave them the name and contact details of my best friend. We are not involved romantically nor have we ever been. I did give them a medical power of attorney where he is named to make these decisions on my behalf.

The hospital staff typed up the info and labeled my friend as my "life partner" even though I had never said anything to that effect.

During my hospitalization my friend was treated with the same deference that a spouse or other blood relative would be.

I don't suggest that my experience negates what you went through or the need for the Democrats to do more in this area but find it interesting to compare your experience in NJ which I consider a fairly enlightened state to Georgia which is filled with snake-dancing theocrats.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
96. Had cause to visit NJ several times over the decades
Swede ATL, I lived in Louisiana and in GA. Both states seem to have more sensitive nicer people working in hospitals, restaurants, etc than the hard asses in NJ. NJ is far more conservative socially than people imagine, not to mention racist.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. Bigotry kills. Literally. nt
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. Kicked and recommended. Thank you.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. If it is true (as your link claims) that 30% of gays voted Republican, then all I can say is:
well, of course, gays have every right under our political system to vote as unintelligently as the rest of the American electorate, if they choose to do so

I have no idea whether that 30% statistic is accurate: if it is, then what it actually says is that a significant number of gay people just really aren't that offended by the Republicans' anti-gay propaganda or by the Republicans' continuing push for anti-gay-marriage legislation. Usually, I haven't won political fights by trumpeting that lots of potentially-affected people simply don't give a shit -- but to each his/her own: perhaps this is your own version of brilliant multidimensional chess?
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. Now that really pisses me off! UNREC
Edited on Thu Nov-04-10 06:06 PM by Peacetrain
I mean really pisses me off. We got all three of our judges who stood up and did the right thing and legalized marriage in Iowa recalled. We worked our butts off for a month trying to get people out and fighting the values voters who teamed up with the Tea party people.

If I thought for a second that the gay community sat out during this election in Iowa..and let this happen, it would make me so damn mad.



Let me edit to add.. I do not buy that or believe it.

So I do not appreciate these kinds of threads at all..and all the recs for it..

Read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/us/politics/04judges.html?src=mv
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I totally agree. It angers me, too.
I have a mentally-disabled son whose needs are very low on the totem pole of concern. My husband & I stood up for him by voting. We live in a red area, we knew going into the booth that our candidates wouldn't win, but we made damn sure our desires were registered.

We sure weren't about to cut off our noses to spite our faces. And my conscience would be hurting if I hadn't at least tried.

Now that the statement has been made, what do those who sat out expect from the Republicans? Whatever happens, I hope they'll remember what they were thinking or doing on election day when they should have at least tried.

Democrats may not have been responsive to your needs, but with the Republicans in charge of the agenda & the purse strings, they may go so far as to undo whatever good has been done for you.

As for my son, I hope we won't have to pay Hundreds of dollars a month for just his medication.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
44. I Wonder if You'd Feel That Way if it Were Your Life being Fucked with?
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Say what? You think sitting out an election where judges are targeted
and being recalled is not something to fight for.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. And let me add pal.. I ain't buying it. People in Iowa do not sit on the sidelines
Edited on Thu Nov-04-10 07:07 PM by Peacetrain
and let others fight for them and then throw things at them. I am not buying it.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
71. Wow, wtf?
That's all you got out of this? Time to pause and reflect Peace. Really, I mean that in all seriousness. I'm sorry about the judges in Iowa, but don't see what that has to do with the OP.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
73. THAT'S what you took out of this OP?
You read about this couple facing severe, systematic discrimination in the hospital from everyone in every position in that hospital, because of rampant homophobia that was approved at all levels, despite ever effort that they could possibly have taken in advance to prevent this discrimination or any effort they could have made at the time to fight it as it was happening.

This was bigotry so severe that you know damned well it interfered with his health care. How do we know? Because even the doctor refused to talk to his partner, to keep his partner up to date with his condition and care when he was incapacitates, meaning that when he was incapacitated there was NOBODY informed and making decisions for him. The doctor just didn't care. The nurses didn't care. Nobody in that hospital cared.

But every one of them certainly enjoyed jumping in on the bandwagon, jumping in on the harassment and bullying.

And all you take away from this is a chance to insult gay people because you think that maybe we didn't vote?

:wtf:

That's fucking evil!
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
80. I wish I could say I was amazed by this post, but I'm not.
It's pretty typical, really.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. A hearty K&R!!
And my vote cancels out some of the unrec crowd who didn't waste much time trying to squash this thread.
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HillWilliam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
and bookmarking. Our issues -- hell, what scares the living fuck out of us day in and day out -- are not ponies and the time to address them is long, long, long overdue. Belittling us and berating us isn't going to make us shut up about it, either.

It just makes us all the more determined.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Who's belitting and berating you?
I noticed the OP made that accusation too, though I've not seen a single person in this thread do that. Can you point out where that's happened?
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Poof.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Huh?
Why would you say something that's derogatory like that?
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Poof is derogatory?
Thats new.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Yeah, it is...
At least here in Australia it is. So what did you mean by it?
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. The naive response to the post about belittling and berating.
Was it meant as a jab?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. There was nothing naive about my post...
Not one single person in this thread has belittled or berated the OP or the poster I replied to. If I've missed a post where's that the case, then feel free to show me. OR is the OP and the poster I was replying to aiming that at everyone who reads the OP?
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Always with the show me. You're right...it doesn't exist. Poof!
It's gone.

:eyes:
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I know I'm right. There's been nothing of the sort in this thread...
Not even sure what yr trying to argue here...
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Mm hm.
:rofl:
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Gosh, that's convincing!! n/t
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
48. Just so you know, calling an Aussie or a Brit a "poof" is akin to calling an American a "fag".
Edited on Thu Nov-04-10 06:53 PM by 11 Bravo
I know that's not what you meant, but you might want to re-think it.
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. I didn't call an Aussie or Brit a poof.
:shrug:
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Violet_Crumble lives in Canberra, Australia.
You responded to post #24 with one word ... "poof". She indicated that the word is a slur in Australia, and you used it again.
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Referencing attacks on the GLBT community that go poof on DU is not a slur.
If someone that probably knows exactly what attacks the poster was referencing makes some claim of offense, I don't give a shit.

Thanks for playing though.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. I'm on your side as far as the big picture goes, but piss off.
I explained clearly and concisely why the term you used could be deemed offensive to an Aussie. Your oh-so-thoughtful response was "I don't give a shit". Fine. The next time you hear a Liverpudlian use the phrase, "Stomping out a fag", remember this thread. All he has to say is that he meant "Stepping on a lit cigarette". You can then explain how the phrase is offensive. I hope he has more class than to respond, "I don't give a shit."
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Thanks for being on my "side".
:patriot:
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Thanks to you guys who tried to explain it to that poster...
I went and googled it and worked out it's not used in the US the same way it is here and the UK. I made the mistake of thinking it was being used in a derogatory way because I have no idea who the poster who replied to me was, and replying with that word in a thread that's about a GLBT issue made me think it was being used in that context. I would hope that most DUers have the decency not to respond in a situation where they find they're using a term that's offensive in other countries with 'I don't give a shit'...
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. You're welcome. You just happpened to come up against a guy who ...
while quickly, and rightly, takes offense to offensive language with which he is famiiar, is either unwilling or unable to admit that he himself has used language which many find offensive. Please don't let the fact that he acted like a jerk, even after having it pointed it out to him, color your opinion of all GLBTQI Yanks and their supporters.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #63
103. I'm pretty sure they didn't mean what they said...
..and they do realise that it is a derogatory term and if they were ever to holiday here, they're not going to be wandering around using it. The nastiness of one or two posters in this thread doesn't reflect on anyone but those particular posters, and as they've made it abundantly clear they've got zero interest in having any sort of civilised discussion or responding without animosity, I'll be making a point to avoid them in future...
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. No, but you DID say "poof," meaning to convey a sound effect...
Edited on Thu Nov-04-10 07:09 PM by RandomKoolzip
...but, since "poof" is a Brit/Aussie slang word for a gay male, your use of it, outside of the context it was intended, could have been taken differently. NOT saying that's what you were doing - just alerting you to an accidental colloquialism in your post.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #56
76. I can see that point
And personally I'm always very glad when someone who has rights comes to tell me why I should be happy without rights. Just warms the cockles of my heart.

Internet slang, though, and we're on the internet not all in Australia, for "poof" is "Off to the ignore list with you!"

Clearly if someone comes to the internet they recognize that slang? (And if not, then I'm glad to have educated you.)

Oh, no. Far better to take some pretended umbrage (because being called gay would be the worst thing ever, right?)

I love the smell of Privilege in the morning.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #76
101. No, you can't...
Edited on Fri Nov-05-10 04:37 PM by Violet_Crumble
Nor are you very good at mind-reading, as I notice you quickly invent some scenario where someone with rights comes along and tells you you should be happy without rights, when all yr doing is posting a very bizarre response to a post about the use of a derogatory term..

Internet slang, though, and we're on the internet not all in Australia, for "poof" is "Off to the ignore list with you!"

Clearly if someone comes to the internet they recognize that slang? (And if not, then I'm glad to have educated you.)


No offense, but it's very arrogant and US-centric to assume that everyone else must understand US slang on the internet. Besides, apart from the sheer silliness of someone putting me on ignore because I dared to ask a simple question, I don't think that it means what you said it does. Besides, that poster hasn't put me on ignore, so what you said makes absolutely no sense...

For the record, I didn't take umbrage, let alone pretend umbrage, though I suspect if you think the term 'poof' is interchangable with 'gay', then you have no clue what yr talking about. It's equivalent to calling a Jew a 'kike'. It's derogatory, which is why I didn't understand why it was being used. But if you bothered to read anything I'd posted, you'd have seen I'd already spoken about that...

When it comes to privilege, maybe you should stop behaving as though you know what other people's backgrounds are? Yr prone to end up making a fool of yrself with all yr assumptions...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #101
105. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Not in this thread but if you haven't seen it you haven't
Edited on Thu Nov-04-10 06:31 PM by walldude
been paying attention. The GLBT community is fighting for it's LIFE. For equal rights, this is a matter of urgency. Yet people here like the poster a few posts up who is quite upset about "Posts like this one" have no problem treating gay rights like it's some stupid political issue. Yeah posts where gays demand something so unheard of as EQUAL RIGHTS really get my dander up :eyes:

If you haven't seen any "belittling or berating" of gays then you are either blind, ignoring it, or you just don't come here that often. Every single time a post is made about.. say the DOJ trying to overturn the DADT ruling, you will find plenty of posts demanding that gays shut up and be "patient". You know they'll get their rights after we win the next election... Oh wait....

I saw 2 threads on election day that blamed the loss of the election on gays. Who are a whole 3% of the voters. Yeah no belittling or berating here.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Of course I've seen it elsewhere, but not often at DU...
What I have seen is pretty much at the same level as other forms of bigotry.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. It will show up right here in this thread. Just check back later. n/t
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. you've been here long enough to know better
Edited on Thu Nov-04-10 06:41 PM by fascisthunter
and that person did not say this thread... pretty sneaky and dishonest. You deserve to be ignored.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. Sorry, I didn't realise there was some veteran DU line I was supposed to parrot...
Sorry, but there's nothing sneaky or dishonest about commenting about accusations that are being aimed directly at the reader. Maybe you need to go back and read the OP again to spot it? If the comments in the OP and the post I replied to weren't aimed at the readers or those participating in the thread, who were they aimed at and why?
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. congrats on crapping on the GLBT community
people like you are pushing that community away from the party. I hope one day you never ever get to experience what the person who wrote that OP has. Maybe if it did, it would open your eyes. Unfortunately, people need to experience other's pain before they really care.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. Disagreeing with a poster is not 'crapping on the GLBT community'
If me disagreeing with another poster on DU is enough to drive an entire community away from the Democrats, then that's a pretty fragile bond that I'd be breaking. Fortunately there's no single mindset in the GLBT community, so please don't take yr own individual opinions and try to pass them off as being the opinions of an entire community. It's pathetic...

I see that in going straight into attack-dog mode you haven't had time to read my post to the OP where I said that I would have had the same experience if I'd been in that hospital. Not sure what you think I need to have my eyes opened about, or why, but as you don't seem the slightest bit interested in what my opinions actually are, I'm sure it's something bizarre...
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #24
93. I would apply all the "Badmouthing the Dems cost us the elections"
threads that are being posted by the usual suspects as applying to what this OP is saying.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #93
104. Have you got links to some of them?
Seeing I'm usually asleep while Americans are awake, I tend to miss seeing a lot that goes on in GD. That sort of stuff would be bigoted, imo, as I'm guessing yr talking about threads that blame LGBTers for badmouthing the Democrats and so being to blame for the loss. That's beyond idiotic. Apart from the ugliness of trying to paint one group of people as all behaving the same way, trying to blame a minority for a loss is trying to make them scapegoats and victimise them....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
32. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
40. You are correct
and there is more. It goes beyond hospital visitation rights. You know that.

So the list is for those who don't.

Inheritance Rights.

Property Rights.

In some places adoption.

And this is the SHORT list. But the biggies...
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #40
68. I know. I touched on those issues later in the letter, too.
But I wanted to give him the personal perspective. That and because most of our income comes from a single breadwinner we pay in the neighborhood of $800.00 a year more in Federal Taxes than an identical married heterosexual couple would.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #68
74. Well, of course you should pay more. You're gay.
How dare you not recognize the Privilege of Being Straight (TM)?

:sarcasm:

I know that if I or my husband were female instead of male, we would have left the country and moved to Ireland. Can't do that, and that's the fault of both countries (although Ireland is much more likely to correct that before the US does).
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cordelia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
42. K & R
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
43. Kick and Rec (nt)
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
45. I have a question. What is the motivation for not voting?
Is it to get even or something? There are a whole world of issues out there worth voting for. The only input we have to the system is our vote.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #45
67. Most people who don't vote are heterosexual. Why is that?
Additionally, over 50% of straights who bother voting are registered Republican. Can you tell me why, County Worker? Seems to me your community leads by far in both the non voter and Republican voter categories, so it seems it falls to you to do the explaining, don't you think? Yet you have a question. Just strikes me as odd.
The group that votes the most Republican is white male heterosexuals over 40. Know anyone like that?
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #67
90. Why do you think I am challenging you somehow? Can you answer my question
without asking me why I asked it?

It is irrelevant that white heterosexual males vote quite often in the question as to why someone chooses not to vote. It would seem to me that if you know some opposition comes out in large numbers against you it would only be sane to come out in larger numbers.

I am not your enemy.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #90
109. You're not our enemy?
Are you fighting on our side?

This is the moral equivalent of civil war. War has been declared for years on homosexuals and we are fighting for our lives. If you aren't shoulder to shoulder with us, then we you are our enemy.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
69. It's hard to see a difference between the parties.
The current Republican leadership is anti-gay. The Democratic White House is anti-gay. My local Democratic candidates are anti-gay. On my most important issues, no matter who I vote for I get screwed.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
50. best of luck with the the Republicans
My condolences for the bullshit you went through.
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Good luck with the Republicans. Blah blah blah Clinton blah blah.
Next.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #54
64. Don't ya love how their "support" comes with a
vague shot of "You cost us the election". :shrug:

I'm on my absolute last DU nerve. And all over gay rights. If the people who's rights are firmly in place could just show a little fucking empathy for those who's aren't we might gain some ground. But it always has to come to "I got mine so you be fucking patient".
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Its obviously sincere.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Shit.. time to log off... I'm losing it...
Edited on Thu Nov-04-10 08:29 PM by walldude
too much today.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #64
82. dont blame me, im not the politicians
IM just a guy standing in a line. If you jump to the other line thinking it will get you what you need, that's your choice. Im not telling you who to vote for, im telling you to vote for whoever you want. Threatening to abandon the dems doesn't really hurt me one bit.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #64
98. The youth vote, the blacks and latinos stayed home for the most part
I was a poll watcher at several polling stations during both 2008 and this year. The difference in the voters was obvious. This year I saw few people in their 20s and 30s, most were in their 50s and 60s. I saw far fewer blacks and latinos.

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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #50
100. the dems didn't work out well
unless you like Easter Egg Rolls
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
57. Thank you for sharing that
And though I'm straight, I wouldn't ever belittle those concerns.

This is a civil rights issue, period. People really ought to ask themselves if they would have reacted the same way toward African Americans during their fight for civil rights.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
62. I'm so sorry for what you went through Pab,
Edited on Thu Nov-04-10 07:45 PM by SunsetDreams
that had to be so frustrating and upsetting for Bryan as well.
I hope that one day, EVERYONE will be treated equally. That is what our country is founded on!

One thing that puzzles me though, I don't understand why any LGBT, would vote Republican, even if it was to teach a lesson.
The Republican Party is totally against LGBT rights.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. ...and like I said
the current Democratic leadership is treating us the same way the Republicans are.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
72. No one should ever have to endure this mistreatment
There's no such thing as a little equality, or close enough to equality, or nearly the same as equality.
There's equality or inequality.
And inequality is simply unacceptable.

For you and Bryan: :grouphug:
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The Uncola Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
75. Another issue that the Dems lacked the spine to take on.
And they still don't "get it"...

Obama the Lame is whimpering and capitulating like a a beaten puppy.

It's sickening.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
77. The unenlightened refer to it as "harping."
The rest of us recognize it for what it is -- fighting the Good Fight. Those of us who are in the fight right along with you understand perfectly. The ones who aren't, let's face it, will never understand. Their party is their life, their god, their very breath.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. .
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
79. If anyone believes the GOP will fight for the GLBT community they
are badly mistaken. A mistake that hurt our entire nation
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kick-ass-bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #79
84. But how long do you stand by with your basic rights trampled upon
before you just say "I can't take it anymore"?

I'm not saying voting the other way or staying home is good - but what choice is there for the trampled?
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. You comments don't change the fact that the GOP is
hostile to the GLBT community. Destroying our nation by turning it over to the GOP because you are mad at the Democrats is beyond a bad idea.
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kick-ass-bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. I understand your point completely.
But they are already in hostile conditions. It's hard to look past anything but survival mode when you don't see anyone extending you a hand to help. What are you to do?

The perception is this: One side is hatred. The other side is betrayal. Where do I go?
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. They are in friendly conditions compared to what the GOP will bring
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kick-ass-bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. Again, I know what you are saying. But it's like asking
would you rather be burned or shot?
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. GLBT rights had been moving in the right direction for the last 2 years
more slowly than we would like, but certainly in the correct direction. Now thanks to what happened Tuesday that movement will stop or turn around back in the wrong direction.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #89
91. They had been
until Obama reversed course and sabotaged the effort in court. We could have had both DOMA and DADT dead and buried at this moment, but Obama appealed the rulings setting us back possibly forever.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #91
95. Undeniable! 'The right direction' won't help people who need help now.
NJMaverick, it's just like me and health care. We got NO HELP when we needed it, and when action could have been taken, the game got thrown for the insurance companies.

I'm LGBT too but I voted D in spite of being kicked under the bus. Quit blaming us!
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #89
106. Dude. The pot amendment didn't pass in California.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #79
97. What do you really care about the GLBT community, anyway?
I'm very curious about the actual committment to GLBT Americans and GLBT equality by the people who bring up this "Well, good luck with the Republicans" thing when someone legitimately questions about the pace and committment of our civil rights by the Democrats. We do understand that there's only one game in town, politically, for GLBT people. Realistically.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
81. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kick-ass-bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
83. Harp on.
Real life always trumps "political issues" (as if it is something to be bartered).

The more you talk, the more people will have to listen.
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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
92. I find it hard to believe
That gay voters would vote Repug as a protest instead of voting independent or green or a write-in. That's like cutting of our noses to spite our faces. If I had a Dem politician I wanted to protest and he didn't have a green/independent challenger, I'd write in Harvey Milk. I may cause a repug to get into office but I wouldn't do it by actually voting for the puke (which I'm sure some would argue I was doing by proxy).
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
94. OMG. 'You aren't really married' *sad and mad*
WHOA. Pab, my heart goes out to you. *hug*


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queerart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
99. K & R
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TriMera Donating Member (885 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
102. kick. n/t
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DeadEyeDyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
107. Do yuo want help?
What you need to do is name names. What Hospital? Names of doctors, nurses and administrators? Let us bring down the wrath of God O'mighty on these self-rightious assholes and you can rest assured that the next gay patient will not suffer the same fate.

Thanks for sharing this. Thanks for being so courageous.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #107
108. The hospital was over three years ago.
I don't know how much of the administration is still there. The nurses were wonderful toward us, it was the doctors and admin that were the big problem.

I've mentioned the politician and his running mates here before.

I just want people to have at least one human story about why "civil unions" just aren't good enough; our state has the strongest Civil Union law in the country and it still wasn't enough. And why this is a life and death issue for me: because it almost was one literally.
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