There is some confusion on DU and everywhere else about the term "liberal."

[Naturyl]

There are two types of "liberalism" in America - neo-liberalism, and left-liberalism, and they are two VERY different things.

I'm not going to push links here, but if this doesn't ring a bell to you, Google is your friend.

America is a thoroughly neo-liberal country, but not a left-liberal one, and this is causing some serious ongoing confusion.

We really should fix this. Without being clear about the difference, we're vulnerable to a lot of misinformation.

[dionysus]

1. don't push labels onto people you have no clue about.

[Naturyl]

3. Hehe, what?

Where did I push a label on anyone?

These terms exist, and they have meanings. No one's pushing anything on you. I'm just suggesting people find out what these terms actually mean.

[OneGrassRoot]

2. It doesn't help that Rush and Faux both push the meme that....

ANY type of liberalism or progressiveism is "evil."

They've co-opted and distorted words and phrases since the late 80's/early 90's.

Other than that, I hear you and agree it would be helpful for reasonable people to understand the difference.

:eyes:

[elocs]

7. That's because Democrats allowed Republicans to shape, define, and frame the debate,

alway putting the Democrats on defense. To most Americans perception is everything yet Democrats acted like it didn't matter. Big mistake and it had better change.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. I absolutely agree. They've controlled the message for 30 years. n/t

[Naturyl]

10. You got it.

As long as they are allowed to frame the debate and control the dialogue, everything's going to be twisted completely, and all to their benefit.

[leftstreet]

4. The US also has a unique species of liberals

They want the checks they write to 'charity' to be on recycled paper



We used to call them Latte or Limo Liberals, but I can't remember if we can still say that here
:-)

[Naturyl]

6. I don't know what "we say here," but I hear you.

Latte liberals burn me up. Can't stomach them at all. If your idea of "progressivism" is reaching down from your McMansion to help "the unfortunates," GTFO. That's not anything to do with the left, it's just feel-good capitalism. U.G. Krishnamurti said it best:

"Charity is the filthiest invention of the human mind: first you steal what belongs to everyone; then you use the policeman and the atom bomb to protect it. You give charity to prevent the have-nots from rebelling against you. It also makes you feel less guilty. All do-gooders feel 'high' when they do good."

[alanquatermass]

14. Love that friggin' quotation, Naturyl! I guess my only question is...

-- what are some examples of "authentic" Liberalism (read: Leftism)? For instance, I have always considered myself a "real" Liberal and not (to use your phrase) a "Latte Liberal"... as well as a true Leftist, but maybe I'm not one. But how the hell can I tell?

Is there (and I am not being facetious here) any kind of test or quiz or questionaire I can take that would clear this up?

Danky!

[Naturyl]

16. I'm not going to try to answer that without knowing you

But neo-liberals are pretty close to what we would call "libertarians" in today's political climate. They are capitalists and individualists first and foremost. Left-liberals usually accept capitalism but want to reform it, whereas those self-identifying as "leftists" (rather than liberals) often do not accept capitalism.

[alanquatermass]

20. Got it! And very cogently expressed, too!

So, which one are you, Naturyl? (And, just as importantly, which one am I?)

I would love to reject Capitalism -- just obliterate the motherfucker -- but of course this begs the question of, What the HELL do we replace it with?

[Ozymanithrax]

5. For almost half the country liberal = Socialist...

Never mind the fact that the two political ideologies are not all that compatible, though liberalism, socialism, and conservatism all grew out of the Enlightenment, Industrial Revolution, and the political revolutions of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.

[Naturyl]

8. Indeed, and thanks.

The irony of the "liberal = socialist" claim is that neither neo-liberalism OR left-liberalism is any friend of socialism. Socialism is something else entirely and really has little patience for liberalism of any kind.

[Ozymanithrax]

19. Their only concern was to demonize not to achieve accuracy. n/t

[PA Democrat]

11. The term neo-liberalism generally refers to economic policies,

and should not be confused with liberal political policies.

Neo-liberalism is about free markets, limited government and deregulation, i.e. the wild-eyed fantasies of libertarians and teabaggers.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376

[JackRiddler]

12. Your distinction is useful but misses out on a third usage of the word.

The right and for the most part the corporate media use "liberal" to mean "the left," which can be defined in highly variable ways that include moderate and even conservative views.

In this third sense, liberal is an attack word attached to anything the right wing pleases to call liberal.

Then there's history. Forget about it! Economically it originally referred to free market ideology.

[Naturyl]

17. Yep, all true. n/t

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

13. Most obvious solution

The "neo-liberals" can start calling themselves Republicans again. As they are not Liberals, and there is nothing "new" (neo) about them.

[mstinamotorcity]

15. A lot of terminology

The repugs really started with the liberal term after they kicked the moderates out of the Neo conservative christian Republican Party. They voted for the civil voting rights act and were kicked to the curb. It was stated they were too Liberal and socialist leaning.This was to make sure they stayed out and anybody with any other point of view need not apply. Now you can take History and word and use intellect,but talk to your Grandparents if you have them. You will find an abundance of History and the average thought process of those times. When you go back too far in History you lose today's audience.

[Hello_Kitty]

18. Poll after poll shows the Americans consider outsourcing and free trade deals to be a problem

Neoliberals favor globalization. And you better believe that the neoliberals of both parties are gearing up to push more "free trade" on us, justifying it by claiming the election results prove that America is a center right country. Even though more "free trade" is the last thing most Americans want.