gawd dammit, gawd dammit, GAWDAMMIT! Why couldn't Prop Nineteen have passed?

[truedelphi]

Had the citizens of California felt like it, Prop Nineteen would have legalized marijuana.

It was not a perfect remedy but it would have stopped the forces of the various Police and Sheriff's department from the following scenario: (True story copied from a sheaf of about forty pages relating to this case)

MWH's Story -

"For nineteen of my thirty nine years, I was part of the workforce in California paying taxes <snip> My wife and I lived in our beautiful Foothills home in the Sierras with our two children. <snip>

One Dec. Third, 1996, Placer County Sheriff department forced their way into my home past my terrified wife without a search warrant and tore our place apart. <snip> Through a Star Chamber like judicial process including Threats and Coercion, Illegal Suppression of Evidence and Blatant Violence, while ignoring my Fourth and Sixth and Fourteenth Amendment rights, the DA in Placer County gained a conviction before Judge Richard Couzens in Placer County Superior Court, I was sentenced to Seven years and Four Months for under two ounces of Marijuana."

MW goes on to explain that his incarceration will cost the citizens of Calif. some two and a half million dollars. (Calif. prison guards are among the most highly paid civil servants on earth - and in many cases, working overtime schedules, they bring home more than 100K a year.)

Among the other parts of his sad story is his relating the perilous conditions of his imprisonment. He shares a cell with one other inmate, and between the two of them they possess four square feet of space not occupied by beds, toilets or other artifacts in the tiny cell. Their cell is home to insects, mice and rats, and the water they drink is so contaminated that they're continually ill from diarrhea. They are often without even a cup with which to drink the water. And the food served to them is equally odious.

His tale also relates the terrible treatment dealt out by the prison guards. Guards forcibly shave his head for his complaining about conditions in the prison. Members of skinhead gangs continually taunt him with threats that they will stab him for his refusal to join their gangs.

But for whatever reason, this Proposition did not pass. I am ashamed of my fellow citizens. I know that it wasn't a perfect piece of legislation, but it also would have eliminated the suffering of so many while saving the state a significant amount of money.

[Frances]

1. It did pass by a large margin in Santa Cruz County

I know 3 grandparents who voted to legalize it. None of us wants a grandchild to use marijuana, but we think it should be treated like alcohol.

[truedelphi]

3. The people in that County are awesome.

I remember hearing about the DEA coming down to some medical marijuana clinic in Santa Cruz to board up the place and arrest the managers - and the local citizens showed up and blocked the DEA physically from doing so, until the DEA decided to leave.

And treating it like Alcohol makes perfect sense. Yet the forces against the proposition continually portrayed the matter as though that you'd have stoned out five year olds behind the wheel, should it pass.

And on and on. Just unrealistic scenarios were painted about how Prop 19 was a terrible idea, rather than one whose time has come. (Or should have come.)

[Hello_Kitty]

7. And Medical Marijuana passed in Santa Cruz Co. Arizona!

It's narrowly failing but they're still counting the votes. Maybe my benighted state will do something right.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. That is a horrifying story...

Eventually, this measure will pass. I voted for it.

It was flawed, however, and it needs to be fixed. The folks behind it have already started to work for it in 2012.

[truedelphi]

5. Good news on it being fixed and presented again in 2012. n/t

[mitchtv]

4. we'll be back next time

2012. Have faith-love

[aikoaiko]

6. I would've voted for Prop 19, but I got high.....La da da da da da La, Da Daaa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYsTmIzjkw

for the record I supported Prop 19 and the legalization of the marijuana, but I couldn't resist the joke.

[truedelphi]

8. So what cha smoking?

:rofl:

[Ozymanithrax]

9. I intended to vote for 19, but I got high...

I was gong to go to the polling place, but then I got High
Now it's still illegal and I know why.
Yeaaaa
Cause I got High
Cause I got High
Cause I got High

[Johonny]

10. seriously I'm sick of prop 19 talk, and NO TALK about the other props that passed

It was like the second least important thing Californians voted for that day. Some truly bad things passed (and a good thing). Yet all I hear about is prop 19. You know what every freaking person I know that wants to get high, gets high already. They all developed Glaucoma (and really don't want to be cured) a long time ago.

[LawnLover]

11. Arnie ruined it by decriminalizing pot

I'm sure a lot of people thought, eh, that's good enough.

[placton]

12. once again, the 60's generation fucks things up n/t

[MrScorpio]

13. I guess not enough dope smokers showed up at the polls. nt

[placton]

14. once again, the 60's generation fucks things up

true, I totally agree

[femrap]

15. As I understand it....

Monsanto started pouring money into Prop 19....and that was a HUGE red flag. So people voted against it.

I thought that pot had already been turned into only a legal 'infraction.' No jail...just a fine.

[truedelphi]

17. I had not heard that about Monsanto pouring money into the matter.

And as far as I know, there are still a lot of offenders in jail due to being charged with marijuana possession, when the amount is enough that the authorities can say you were planning to sell it.

[femrap]

24. I have a friend living in N.CA

who is a huge legalization of pot advocate, but she said Monsanto was sending money for the passage...so they must have seen a loophole where they could make money off the passage of this bill.

It makes me sick that people who smoke pot are in jail. They are there because of the privatization of prisons...pure and simple. Prison owners get rich off of non-violent pot smokers in their prisons.

Disgusting. And rapists walk around for years with their DNA sitting on the shelf. Sometimes I think they don't want to jail the violent ones....too much work and headaches with those.

[truedelphi]

32. That is really about it. Our jails are overflowing with people

There for minor offenses. Often the real problem is some undetected mental illness that they' re "self-medicating"" for.

The Prison Guard Union owns the politicians in this state. Every decent politician who gets in the governor's mansion says they will be different, but in the end they capitulate.

If only the Teacher's Union had that kind of power!

[Ghost in the Machine]

16. If you actually read the Bill, you would find it was full of flaws and had the potential to infringe

.. and possibly nullify, some of the MMJ laws already in place. As written, it would have still regulated use so much that you could still face legal problems, and the infringements on the MMJ laws would have a negative impact on medicinal users.

The story in your OP is absolutely tragic though... this Country has gone off the deep end when possessing marijuana gets your more time in prison than some child rapists get.

[truedelphi]

18. Likeyou say,this country is really off the deep end when it comes up to sentencing

For the drug use situation and also "sex offenses." So some 18 year old has a 16 year old girl friend, and the "old guy" in the relationship can be deep sixed for any number of years should the young woman get pregnant and the parents press charges. The USA feels like Crazy Land more and more each day.

I had heard many of the things you' re saying about the law being a bad one. But didn't know who to believe. (Most of the people I know who are against Prop Nineteen are also happy making some extra money on account of pot being illegal.)

[Ghost in the Machine]

20. I would love to see it legal nationwide, but there is a lot of work involved in putting together

a good set of laws, as with tobacco and alcohol. As for the 18 year old & 16 year old, yeah, I think that's crazy to prosecute something like that... I was talking about child rapists.. look at some of these sentences:

Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.

Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial.

Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

Republican Mayor Jeffrey Kyle Randall was sentenced to 275 days in jail for molesting two boys -- ages ten and 12 -- during a six-year period.
http://www.republicansexoffenders.com/


Of course, there were some harsher sentences too...

[Zhade]

19. ENOUGH WITH THE BULLSHIT. If YOU read the bill...

...you'd have noticed the beginning of it, which stated in clear language THAT IT WOULD NOT HARM OR SUPERSEDE ANY RIGHTS ALREADY HELD BY MM PATIENTS.

The big growers and dispensaries trotted out that lie. Please don't repeat it.

[Ghost in the Machine]

21. Spin it however you want, but the wording DOES interfere with existing MMJ laws..

... would the new law have distinguished between MMJ patients and plain ol' tokers pertaining to smoking in public, or around minors? How about limiting growing space to a 5X5 area, whereas an MMJ patient can have an unlimited number of plants?

Oh, btw... do you have a link to where it says "THAT IT WOULD NOT HARM OR SUPERSEDE ANY RIGHTS ALREADY HELD BY MM PATIENTS"?

[truedelphi]

28. You know, I read the bill last night, as it's only three pages long,

And I did not find any areas that really concerned me. Can you cite the section where you find concerns?

With or without Prop 19, communities across California still make things hard for dispensaries, especially in some areas.

[Fly by night]

22. The perfect is ALWAYS the enemy of the good. Prop 19 wasn't perfect ...

... but, good Goddess, it was good.

It is interesting that this thread has attracted a batch of previously unseen gloaters who cannot even tell different jokes. Sad, but predictable.

Fortunately, it has also attracted people who do have serious issues with Prop 19's language. Again, it was far from perfect. (From my perspective, 25 square feet would be insufficient for providing cannabis to a single patient, but what do I know (having grown cannabis for only 40 years now.)

I appreciate NORML's take on the situation -- that we have moved the dialog forward and have come within 2% of changing a sad and sordid history. And that 2011 and 2012 are just ahead.

Meanwhile, people keep rotting away in prison and my house keeps being buzzed, loud and low, by gun-packing church ladies.

America -- land of the free and home of the brave -- if you'll fight to get us back there. Truedelphi, so sorry for your loss, that we all share.

K&R

[truedelphi]

31. Thank you for weighing in on this. l don't know personally if it is my loss.

Doctors let me have unlimited vicodeine. Only one has helped me resolve WHY I need pain meds in the first place. With that help, and knowing how to avoid the cause of pain, my pain med useage is way. Marijuana impairs my ability to remain awake, plus has caused me massive paranoia. So it isn't about me personally at all.

But it sucks that people who do use it have to face charges by police. And that the prisons have so many inmates from these minor drug charges. And that the prison industry literally has sucked this state dry. No governor or legislator here dares to face down the Prison Guard Union. We don't have teachers, social workers, project managers or needed projects - but hey, we have prisons galore. With staff that never worries about being laid off due to lack of funds.

Meanwhile, cartels from south of the border clean up one family member and ship them here, where that person buys an entire bank! To help launder the cartel's drug funds.

I also liked that Prop 19 would have freed up job seekers from worrying about whether their minor marijuana useage would have cost them a job.

[MineralMan]

23. For the same reason cigarette taxes keep going up.

Folks who don't smoke it don't care about folks who do, so it's always going to be an uphill battle. Probably always a losing battle, I'm afraid. Asking the general population to support the end of a law they don't care one bit about is simply not going to work. First, you have almost 50% of the population, even in California, who are Republicans and they will always vote against it. Then, you have a certain percentage of Democrats who don't like it, and they're going to vote against it. You're already over 50% against it, right there. They don't smoke it. They don't care if anyone smokes it. They're not going to change their vote.

It's a losing battle. A better choice is trying to convince legislators in a state like California. There, you might have a fighting chance. A very slim chance, but a fighting chance, anyhow.

[TheKentuckian]

25. Bipartisan cooperation between the nannystaters, fundies, pharma, and the private prison industry???

[truedelphi]

29. Yeah I would say that this is a good call on what went on. n/t

[court jester]

26. 19 would have not helped this person

and there must be something else going on here because no one in California gets 7 yrs for 2 ounces.

Not since the early 70's anyway. And this is from Dec. Third, 1996 before the medical law had been sorted out but 2 ounces did not get one 7 years. Nope.

And 19 only would have made up to an ounce "legal". So his 2 zips would have still gotten him in trouble with johnny law unless he had a med card, which he can get now.


So I'm calling bullshit

19 created more laws than it repealed, but the stupid media never had even one of their assistants read the fucking proposition and they kept calling it total legalization and a bunch of sheep with rings in their noses were led around almost to the slaughter house.

[Man_with_a_plan]

27. Unbelievable

I don't understand the issue with legalizing marijuana. I truly believe there are more "closet" users out there than is truly known. You don't see someone so "hopped up" on pot that they go out and kill someone... or go through withdrawls, sweating, screaming, vomiting... It's hard enough to get up off the couch! Or drive faster than 20 mph.

Alcohol is the only drug that can KILL you if you stop cold turkey. And it's legal. Fist fights, drunk driving... marital abuse... hmm....

[truedelphi]

30. Hi Man_With_A_Plan

Welcome to DU.

Hope you enjoy the ride here.