So let me get this straight.... California went away from touch-screen voting before this election..

[scheming daemons]

...and Democrats won races up and down the state at all levels.... in a state with very high unemployment and lots of forclosures.



Here in PA, we have paperless touchscreen voting statewide..... and Republicans swept the state, even though we only have 7.7% unemployment and a low amount of forclosures.




So... California... a state that SHOULD have much more to be angry about, voted Democratic.

Pennsylvania... a state that SHOULD have much less to be angre about, voted Republican.




Pretty damn suspicious. In the largest state in the union, a state where vote manipulation is harder, one that is messed up economically in many ways... Democrats won big.



I bet that Sestak would have won PA by several percentage points, if the votes had a paper trail and couldn't be hacked.

[eleny]

1. State Secy of States are so important

[truedelphi]

10. yep, that is one cosnideration that anyone gaming the system would have to think about.

Our local PBS station videoed the entire Office of the Registrar for the entire time it took to bring in the boxes from the precincts. Rather boring footage, but it is all right there on camera. And we have a new Democratic Sheriff, and are retiring the man who has been running this place to the liking of his RW cronies.

[glitch]

27. Crucial. As are people at the local and county level. They all have to be informed and honest.

Especially informed. And honest.

The the SOS is crucial, and the repukes fight very hard and dirty for those posts.

[dsc]

2. we don't have touch screens here

and lost the general assembly, a us senate race, and maybe one congressman. North Carolina.

[aquart]

3. Yes, but nobody is surprised.

[dsc]

5. the general assembly was not expected

and frankly I thought we would lose Kissel if we lost anyone and he won fairly easily.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. The touch screen issue may have been a factor.

But I think that more people were looking at who was running, and at the legacy of Ahnold.

Meg just could not connect with the voters at all, and Jerry came across as in touch, with a sense of humor and excellent political instincts.

I don't know...

:shrug:

[scheming daemons]

7. I'm arguing that California's vote totals were legitimate (because they were NOT touch screen)

I'm also arguing that PA's vote totals look fishy.... and PA uses paperless touch screens.

[truedelphi]

12. one of the Talking Heads was saying that there were

250,000 fewer voters in the end for PA on Nov 2nd, than on Election Day 2008.

Does that seem right to you? It is often easier to "disappear" a whole block of votes than to make them switch over.

[aquart]

6. California had Arnold.

And a stunning case of buyers' remorse we will soon be seeing elsewhere.

[Cleita]

31. California had Debra Bowen a new Sec of State

who made it her mission to get rid of as many eVoting machines as she could. She has been elected to another term.

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

8. Why isn't Rendell raising Hell about this?

He's term limited out, so it's not like there would be any political risk for him to speak up.

[jgraz]

14. He's got bigger plans in the Democratic party

And those touch screens have been very very good to him.

[demodonkey]

9. Well, PA will never know... but it is not for lack of trying.

Have been working on this for over 6 years, in PA.

http://www.VotePA.us

[laughingliberal]

11. Here's another one for you:

Nevada leads the nation in unemployment, foreclosures, negative home equity, and bankruptcies. Nevertheless, Harry Reid won by 5%.

We have black boxes but our black boxes have a paper trail-a tape that prints your choices for you to check before confirming and then prints the confirmed votes. There's a nice hard copy of all the votes right there in the machine that can be used to verify vote tallies.

[Lugnut]

13. I hate those touch screen machines.

I'd love to know whose pockets got lined in the process of making the big switch.

[madmax]

15. Someone else has a similar pov

regarding the voting machines and then some. Good post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9483647

[Raine]

16. We've never had it in my area of Los Angeles

County.

[EFerrari]

17. We had a knock down, drag out fight with the SoS that replaced

the Democrat who was driven out of office because he was the first one in the whole country to really look into the machines. Arnold's appointee tried his hardest to insinuate that crap back in and his @ss was voted out in 2006. We still have problem areas but our SoS is first rate and all over the damn machines.

[Silver Gaia]

18. Another thing that may or may not be relevant to California's votes

this time around (and I'm not discounting the point about the voting machines at all -- that is a valid point, IMO) is that I think California already DID what many say happened in this election back when we recalled Gray Davis and voted in Ahnold. (I say "we" although I didn't have any real part in that. I just live here.) That was a "toss 'em out on their ears" sort of election here, IMO. People were angry, and actually voted against their best interests because they bought into the rhetoric.

We found out what a mistake that was. Ahnold talked a good talk (or so many thought -- I never did), but couldn't deliver. Californians have realized that didn't work out very well. And now, we have what happened in THIS election.

Maybe California was just ahead of the curve back then. The rest of the nation is there now. Maybe we are still ahead of the curve. FWIW, I find some comfort in thinking that if that's the case, we may see what happened here reflected in the rest of the country in 2012. Just a thought...

[NuttyFluffers]

23. that recall election was the first full swing election with those touch screens in CA...

at least it was so with Alameda county, as an early adopter. i worked those polls (and at least 5+ others over the years) and can tell you the fishiness reeked from beginning to end of that election year. an absolute nightmare!

whether there is a correlation to the touch screens first hitting the scene en masse and the successful sweeping in of Ahnold, i cannot say. but i'll let that insinuation lie there like a big ol' pink elephant in the room -- oh yesiree!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

19. But, you've always been so reality based.

Why the sudden change?

[BlueCheese]

20. Come on.

Enough with the conspiracy theories, at least without evidence. We're supposed to be the party that believes in facts and observed behavior.

California is much more Democratic than Pennsylvania, and most states for that matter, and has been for a long time. It's no surprise that California votes for Dems when other states don't. That's an extremely plausible explanation for the results.

If you really think there's something to worry about, there are a few ways to look into it. There are lots of ways to test a hypothesis that something was rigged--Did different counties used different voting machines? If so, how do their results compare? Do the vote totals correspond to exit polls? Do the absentee votes look different than electronic votes? Are there other states where Democrats did better or worse than the economy might have suggested? Do those states use electronic voting?

Without checking into things like that, making claims that the elections were stolen is not unlike claiming that global warming is fake or evolution is fake.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

21. There is fraud.

It is documented, and could be researched (if one so chooses). Where, and how many occurrences, becomes a thankless task though when abject claims are made. The argument presented in the OP short changes real efforts to reform the process.

[Mnemosyne]

30. truthisall.net has done all that for you, just go there and learn that something isn't a

conspiracy theory if there is actual evidence.

This link has links to back up it all. There is extensive analysis and data from an amazing researcher and analyst:

http://www.truthisall.net/


More links with links to aid you in educating yourself before throwing around the CT meme again:

U.S. Bars Lab From Testing Electronic Voting

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2674501

PROTECTING THE DEMOCRATIC VOTE: Part 3
A Formula for Catching Election Fraud

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2600324&mesg_id=2600324

Excel Interactive Election Model

http://us.share.geocities.com/electionmodel/InteractiveElectionSimulation.xls

Poll question: Which of these facts convinced you that the election was stolen?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=373210&mesg_id=373210

SOME RESOURCES FOR AMERICAN REVOLUTION II:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=989151&mesg_id=989893


Thanks for taking the time to seek this knowledge, I admire those that educate themselves! :hi:

And welcome to DU! An education thrives here! :hi:

[NuttyFluffers]

22. touch screens were a logistical NIGHTMARE when i worked the polls.

THANK GOD for Debra Bowen being our Sec of State and switching out all that crap! people, your Secretary of State is sooo~ important, they are the ones that certify voting machines -- and they are being lobbied heavily behind the scenes to go to touch screens.

if it wasn't for Debra Bowen's efforts i can pretty much assure you more shenanigans would have occurred. touch screens are a horrible mess and should be avoided like the plague on logistical bases alone. the *fact* that they are highly exposed to external tampering should be a big red alarm with roaring klaxons that they must be stopped at all grassroots costs.

[Junkdrawer]

24. I live in PA and I won't believe the results of ANY election here until we get rid....

of those machines.

I'll vote because what choice do I have, but I won't believe the results.

[Rebubula]

25. Another example

In Maryland, we use Touch Screens.

Democrats won almost EVERYTHING!

Seriously....PA is Red and Mostly Rural. CA is Blue-ish and mostly Urban. Math seems good to me

But, if you like you tinfoil...who am I to say that you are looking for boogeymen?

[garybeck]

26. CMON FOLKS, it's not as simple as getting rid of touchscreens. Optical Scans can be hacked too

actually they can be hacked easier because there are less memory cards and they are all configured at a central location.

having a paper trail is not the end all.

YOU HAVE TO DO RANDOM AUDITS!

Last I checked, Bowen introduced some minimal random audits but they are not enough.

this document will help
http://www.electionaudits.org/files/best%20practices%20final_0.pdf

[glitch]

28. Human nature -- if you knew someone is watching wouldn't you be less likely to steal?

If you were a thief that is, and we know they are.

The scrutiny itself also plays a part. Although I agree, there should be more random audits, but even a few -- if they are truly random, can point to manipulation and have a discouraging effect.

[Chan790]

29. Consider CT as well.

CT went Democratic on all 5 House seats, 1 Senate seat, Governor, Sec. of State, Atty. General, Treasurer and races all up and down the board locally. It was both a Democratic sweep and it was a Democratic tsunami. The state GOP is crippled for the next two years after 2010, they have nothing. Not even enough seats in the state legislature to be relevant.

CT uses paper ballots and most of those were close races.