30000 troops have killed themselves since the Afghan/Iraq war started..

[mdmc]

We have lost more troops to suicide then we have to enemy actions.

[snappyturtle]

1. 30,000? nt

[mdmc]

2. alarming

I heard the figure during a PTSD training yesterday. It is the best kept secert in America.

[snappyturtle]

5. Unbelievable. My mind cannot wrap itself around suicide to this degree. nt

[mdmc]

6. for people in the treatment industry, it is hard to process industrial apathy

The USA spent more on suicide prevention / PTSD treatment after 9-11-01 then it has for the troops. Part of this is the idea that troops are trained for battle and don't get PTSD.

[HereSince1628]

9. Big horrible number that I hope isn't correct..

USA Today reported in July the following..."There were 32 confirmed or suspected suicides among soldiers in June, including 21 among active-duty troops and 11 among National Guard or Reserve forces, according to Army statistics"

So it looks more like something over 350 per year for the Army. Multiplying times eight years that would be around 3000. I don't know about Marine suicides or numbers in the field but 30K does seems big.

I really hope that it's a mistake.

[mdmc]

20. My stat includes other "accidents" that could have been prevented

exposure due to homelessness
accidental alcohol / drug OD
accidents due to stress and sleeplessness.

[Obamanaut]

3. Is there a link to a source that supports this number? nt

[mdmc]

4. No link

I heard it while attending a PTSD training sponsored by NYSOMH (new york state office of mental health).

The military ties hard to cover up suicides of military personnel.

[Obamanaut]

8. Here is an article that does not agree with that number.->

While the number is larger than expected, it is not 30,000

Link = http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127860466

[mdmc]

22. "It's a great system," Edward Colley says. "Properly done, it no doubt saves lives."

NPR only counted deaths where the soldier openly committed suicide.

For instance, if a sober person serves in Iraq, comes back with an alcohol problem, and dies in a DUI car crash, that is not considered suicide. But to a PTSD trained therapist, this death could have been avoided with successful interventions. To a PTSD therapist, this kind of death is directly related to PTSD and the service that was performed in defense of our country. It is not technically a suicide, it is a death cause by PTSD.

[Obamanaut]

30. "I heard your statement is not backed up by verifiable statistics, "

Obamanaut replied, "so what is one to really believe?"

What you have described is more like the that six links to Kevin Bacon thing. If the sober person had not volunteered for the military, that person would likely not have gone to Iraq and then came home with an alcohol problem and subsequently died in a DUI car crash. It was the recruiter's fault.

[era veteran]

7. I will bet everything I own that this is BS

Bogus on face. Please back this up.

[Bucky]

14. I looked it up. Here's the real figure

It was 300,000.

[mdmc]

23. This stat includes preventable deaths caused by untreated PTSD.

[w8liftinglady]

10. we have been there 3600 days in two countries

suicide levels may not have started at 18/day...but it is there,now.What we forget is the "unknown cause" deaths,deaths from drug ods,homelessness due to ptsd,automobile accidents due to intoxication/drug use.There are a lot of ways to kill yourself-these just take longer.

[mdmc]

18. Yes

The stat I quoted includes these deaths - deaths that could have been avoided with access to the proper resources.

[Codeine]

11. I real, REALLY do not believe that.

It's an absurd claim on its face.

[pinboy3niner]

12. The actual figure for active duty troops should be about one-tenth of that

What you heard probably was referring to some combination of active duty suicides and estimates of veteran suicides.

It wasn't until 2008 that the DVA began collecting data on suicides among OEF/OIF vets. Among all veterans, DVA estimates there are about 6,400 suicides each year.

Here's one multi-year figure on all military suicides (from a New York Times editorial):

From 2005 to 2009, more than 1,100 members of the military killed themselves, with the highest tolls among Army soldiers and Marines carrying the burden on the battlefronts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/02/opinion/02thu2.html?_r=1&th&emc=th

[zeemike]

13. And what we will never know is how many of those were fraged

by their own because they could not be trusted to keep their mouth shut.
War is a racket and rackets sometimes must use murder to stay alive and well....any mobster will tell you.

[mdmc]

24. No service has yet tracked the myriad factors involved in suicide.

My stat includes preventable deaths caused by PTSD.

the 1,100 suicide stat from 2009 includes only people that officially kill themselves. My 30000 stat includes "accidental" deaths from accidents (insomnia, drugs, alcohol, exposure) that are a direct result of PTSD.

[elocs]

15. Such an alarming figure demands a link, some kind of hard proof.

Sorry,the "I heard the figure during a PTSD training yesterday" is not good enough.

[mdmc]

17. The figure comes from a therapist

He provides "supervision" (work related therapy) for PTSD therapist.
He derived the figure from data collected from his clients (PTSD therapists).

He includes in his suicide stat soldiers / vets who have died in ways that seem directly related to their experiences while serving in combat.

For instance, a healthy truck driver with no accidents or points on his drivers license goes to Iraq and serves. When he comes home he cannot sleep. He dies in a truck crash - his death is accidental - driving while drowsy. But in fact, he could have been treated for PTSD, and saved from his accident.

[w8liftinglady]

16. here are Some stats...interpret them as you will

fatalities-Iraq
http://icasualties.org/Iraq/Fatalities.aspx
fatalities-Afghanistan
http://icasualties.org/OEF/Fatalities.aspx
wounded -Afghanistan
http://icasualties.org/OEF/USCasualtiesByState.aspx
wounded-Iraq
http://icasualties.org/Iraq/USCasualtiesByState.aspx

Contractor deaths(many are veterans)
http://icasualties.org/Iraq/Contractors.aspx

[w8liftinglady]

26. and this...unfortunately,does not include deaths when stateside-remember "The Deerhunter"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deer_Hunter

[seabeyond]

19. not believing that..... sorry. i could go 3000. nt

[madokie]

21. involuntary suicides

Is what the man is getting at and I do think that number is possible. :hi:

[seabeyond]

25. ah. thanks. nt

[mdmc]

32. yupyup

yes sir

[Zax2me]

27. You say a therapist told you this?

I'd stay free and clear of any advice from a therapist that is telling you things that are obvious lies.

[w8liftinglady]

28. MDMC is an instructor/therapist for other PTSD therapists.

I'd send my son to him any day.He truly cares about veterans and sees beyond the "official" number.The "officials" don't usually admit to troop effects until 20-40 years post-war,anyway.Look at Gulf war one and Vietnam.

[Catherina]

29. CNN: "Every day, five U.S. soldiers try to kill themselves" x 7200 days for 2 wars

Concern mounts over rising troop suicides
IRAQ WAR

February 01, 2008

Every day, five U.S. soldiers try to kill themselves. Before the Iraq war began, that figure was less than one suicide attempt a day.

The dramatic increase is revealed in new U.S. Army figures, which show 2,100 soldiers tried to commit suicide in 2007.

"Suicide attempts are rising and have risen over the last five years," said Col. Elspeth Cameron-Ritchie, an Army psychiatrist.

Concern over the rate of suicide attempts prompted Sen. Jim Webb, D-Virginia, to introduce legislation Thursday to improve the military's suicide-prevention programs.

...

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-02-01/us/military.suicides_1_suicide-attempts-soldier-deaths-iraq-war?_s=PM:US

Just end the fucking wars already you assholes.

[Roma]

31. Whatever the number, it may be instructive to know

if the incidence of suicide is outside the "norm" for the comparable economic-social strata as a whole. I.E. what is the suicide rate for the 18-35 year old mostly male population of the society?

It's always a tragedy.