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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:48 AM
Original message
Progressive critics should be held accountable for their failure in electing a progressive majority
Edited on Fri Nov-05-10 11:57 AM by bigtree
I see a lot of folks blaming the White House for the losing the House and for the tightened majority in the Senate. I'm looking at polls where the votes of Democrats and republicans are pretty much split at 38% each with 'independent' voters making up the rest. Progressives may well make up the bulk of those independents, and the divided vote between the two major parties suggests that progressives who sat out this election could make a difference in the next one.

What I'm not seeing is a sure calculation where policies favored by progressives would have made a difference in the last election if the White House had 'pushed' for them. Critics can certainly claim that progressive voters would have made a winning margin of difference in the last election, but I'm not sure they're accounting for the republican and conservative voters who might trump their votes in opposition to their agenda.

The disconnect between progressive complaints about the President and his policies affecting the outcome of this election, and their own failure to provide winning margins of votes where it mattered is stunning. Leaving aside the fact that the progressive supporters did not manage to produce enough voters to make a winning difference (especially in the conservative states and districts) there's still the matter of the votes which were cast by the opposition; presumably in opposition to those very policies progressives insist the President should have 'fought for' (policies imagined, made-up, or not).

Where is the accounting for politics? We all eschew politics in the abstract, but we are, nonetheless, subject to the most base of political attitudes, views, and reactions from republican voters and others in opposition to our party. All of the talk about 'standing up and fighting' for more progressive initiatives ahead of midterms like we just faced, may well be energizing to the progressives who were inclined to sit out the election or vote for someone other than a Democrat, but it's also a prescription for a conservative backlash at the polls like we just witnessed. Is it realistic to expect that a more progressive agenda would have produced more progressive-minded voters to trump the conservative-led ones? I'm not convinced. Witness the 2004 presidential election where record Democratic turnout was outmatched by a record number of republican votes.

Whether we asked for it or not, many of the results of this midterm election were backlashes against perceived and enacted policies and positions of the White House and Democrats which fell outside of the conservative views of voters who made the winning difference in many races. The fact that progressive critics are also registering their own disagreements with the scope and direction of the President's policies points up the balance of intentions and actions the White House is challenged to manage in the policies they push to enact and the ones they advocate.

It's clear that progressive critics don't view the health care reform legislation that was passed and signed into law as 'progressive' policy, but it certainly was; especially in relation to the status quo. This President fought to see it enacted. He didn't 'fight' for many ideals and initiatives that were advocated by progressive advocates, but there is no denying that many of the health care/health insurance changes he did manage to see enacted were part of someone's progressive agenda. We can argue about the effect and degree of the changes, but the health law was progress.

Likewise, the bailout of auto companies to protect worker's jobs was a progressive achievement by this President. Certainly there were aspects of that initiative which could have been more amenable to progressives, but the action was undeniable progress in saving jobs and providing the landscape for future employment in the strengthened industry.

Most of the criticisms of this President center on the fact that he hasn't fulfilled all of his promises or hasn't done enough to make the ones he found when he came into office go away. There are very valid criticisms of the personnel he's chosen to manage his agenda, but there are some concrete accomplishments which are obscured by the magnitude and the duration of the economic mismanagement of the last administration.

Further, we've yet to see a progressive majority elected by voters which would enact most of the significant planks of a progressive agenda that the President might propose. We could watch him spit in the wind, but I'm fine that he didn't waste his time standing in the way of the incremental changes he achieved in defense of things which are clearly unsupported by the balance of power in our legislature.

It's always convenient to complain about the President's failure in enacting a progressive agenda, but short shrift is given to the reality that he needs partners in Congress to push it forward. That progressive majority hasn't been forthcoming. That's a big deal. Who's responsible for that? I certainly don't think you can put the blame for the inability of progressives to field and advance enough legislators to form a working progressive majority at his feet. It's not as if there was/is majority support among voters for a progressive presidential candidate.

It's not as if there was a plethora of support for a progressive agenda among voters in this midterm. The President can make all of the defiant stands he wants (or progressives want) and he can just as surely suffer the consequences of the votes from those opposing that stance. If we care at all about winning these elections, we have to acknowledge the challenges of balancing the 'enthusiasm' that is sparked by adhering to either point of view.

This president has worked with what the voters gave him. This next round will be a decidedly more defensive one. That's not his doing. That's what voters have dealt him. Where is the evidence that a winning majority of voters are insisting on a progressive agenda? Any fight he wages - and he has waged some with a bit of success - is an uphill fight because of the conservative and republican legislators voters have sent to manage what he proposes. Yes, he has waged some and won some -- albeit with a muted effect that obscures the historic effort he's made in moving Congress to act in response to the financial catastrophe and national emergency -- but he has made some progress.


from a Rolling Stone article posted at the pda: http://pdamerica.org/articles/news/2010-10-31-03-45-02-...

___ Less than halfway through his first term, Obama has compiled a remarkable track record. As president, he has rewritten America's social contract to make health care accessible for all citizens. He has brought 100,000 troops home from war and forged a once-unthinkable consensus around the endgame for the Bush administration's $3 trillion blunder in Iraq. He has secured sweeping financial reforms that elevate the rights of consumers over Wall Street bankers and give regulators powerful new tools to prevent another collapse. And most important of all, he has achieved all of this while moving boldly to ward off another Great Depression and put the country back on a halting path to recovery.

Along the way, Obama delivered record tax cuts to the middle class and slashed nearly $200 billion in corporate welfare—reinvesting that money to make college more accessible and Medicare more solvent. He single-handedly prevented the collapse of the Big Three automakers—saving more than 1 million jobs—and brought Big Tobacco, at last, under the yoke of federal regulation. Even in the face of congressional intransigence on climate change, he has fought to constrain carbon pollution by executive fiat and to invest $200 billion in clean energy—an initiative bigger than John F. Kennedy's moonshot and one that's on track to double America's capacity to generate renewable energy by the end of Obama's first term.

On the social front, he has improved pay parity for women and hate-crime protections for gays and lesbians. He has brought a measure of sanity to the drug war, reducing the sentencing disparity for crack cocaine while granting states wide latitude to experiment with marijuana laws. And he has installed two young, female justices on the Supreme Court, creating what Brinkley calls "an Obama imprint on the court for generations."

What's even more impressive about Obama's accomplishments, historians say, is the fractious political coalition he had to marshal to victory. "He didn't have the majority that LBJ had," says Goodwin. Indeed, Johnson could count on 68 Democratic senators to pass Medicare, Medicaid and the Voting Rights Act. For his part, Franklin Roosevelt had the backing of 69 Senate Democrats when he passed Social Security in 1935. At its zenith, Obama's governing coalition in the Senate comprised 57 Democrats, a socialist, a Republican turncoat—and Joe Lieberman . . .

read more: http://pdamerica.org/articles/news/2010-10-31-03-45-02-news.php


We're now facing the consequences of the shortage of support from Democratic voters in the midterm election. The President and Democrats should certainly work to accommodate the views of those 'independents' which share our Democratic values, and, they should work to bring progressives closer to support of the administration's efforts. However, the President and our party are not going to be able to please everyone.

In my view, this White House has worked hard to manage support from voters, even as they work to advance their agenda in a legislature which doesn't yet have a working progressive majority to enact the policies supporters and critics say they want to see a 'fight' for. That failure to elect a progressive majority looks to be a state-by-state challenge, more than it's something the President is able to produce or guarantee. Where's the accounting for that failure of progressives to produce support from voters around the country? That failure can't all be laid at the feet of the White House.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. The house passed the more progressive legislation while the Senate held it up.
Notice it is the house that turned over so significantly...

Maybe the country isn't progressive and we must assume that successful progressive legislation comes with the sacrifice of control.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. In the House every seat is up. The turnover potential is not the same in both houses
Nor is the opportunity to pick up seats.

We didn't save any Senate seats because they sat on bills.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. So, you expect Jane and Glen and Cenk to gotv in Blue Dog districts
because they have such a huge fan base there? Am I reading this wrong, bigtree?

It seems to me that the best way to get voters out is to refrain from slapping round progressive activists in the run up to an election. It would be a start, any way.



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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. what about the effect of 'slapping around' less progressive voters
Edited on Fri Nov-05-10 12:09 PM by bigtree
I don't see much concern from the left about the effect of that. Much of the attention paid by the President to concerns which fell outside of the agenda of progressive critics was necessary to hold that 'moderate' or less-progressive support in place.

What I'm saying is that the politics doesn't favor just one ideology alone garnering enough support to elect a majority. Moreover, as you hint, the are disparate areas of the nation with many diverse views. Yes. there is a failure of progressives to get majority support from those regions for their policies. How do we expect politicians to respond favorably to policies which are unsupported by their constituency? The failure of progressives to gain that support from voters for their agenda is a failure of progressivism and it's most ardent supporters, more than it's some failure of the President to bend his policy to accommodate them (politically or otherwise).
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Who has being calling "less progressive voters" retarded
or saying they should shut up or be drug tested? No one.

And it turns out that appeasing right wing concerns did not help the President in the most conservative voting pools.

I agree with you and with Howard Dean that we can get Democrats elected all over the country and that we need to work on that. But you can't expect progressive activists to get better results when the leader of the Democratic party is slamming them from his bully pulpit. Obama needs to stop doing that. It's self destructive behavior.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. don't get me wrong
I'm not the one who's volunteering to appease conservative voters. I'm just pointing out that they exist and were influential in this election. I think the WH can and should reach out to progressive voters, but they also have to be mindful that it's not easy to defend some of those policies to the victory that some folks say they want. We can very well stand on principle on issues and throw our sword out and fall on it. But, there are still political forces and consequences to any advocacy which needs to be balanced in an election. I'm more sympathetic to the WH for keeping mindful of those influences as they deliberate than I am to critics who insist that support and attention should be forthcoming no matter what the effect and consequence. We can win a majority, or we can stand on these 'principles' and wait for the political wind to catch up with us. I'm looking at the republican House and I'm not convinced that WH support for more progressive policies are enough to change that outcome. I think they've struck the only balance that was reasonable for the goal of holding on to our majority. That may well not matter to some, but I think we can see the importance of holding on to these seats. Where's progressives' responsibility in all of that?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. there's no concern for "slapping around" conservadems, b/c no one's "slapping around" conservadems
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ShamelessHussy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. The results say progressives had the best showing
so i don't see your point.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. the point is, they didn't provide a winning margin of votes
. . . in the regions where republicans won. Their candidates couldn't gain the nomination or achieve any independent lead among voters in those regions and progressives failed, as much as it was anyone's failure in our party to hold our Democratic majority. Moreover, progressives have failed to advance a progressive majority of voters to the legislature. Whatever happens at voting time as a result of that failure is as much the fault of progressives as it is the White House; probably more the responsibility of progressive supporters than it is the President's as he's limited by the balance of interests and power as he works to pass legislation.
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ShamelessHussy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. progressive candidates WON, how much more margin do they need?
maybe the LOSERS should take notice.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. there still isn't a progressive majority in our legislative bodies
Edited on Fri Nov-05-10 03:19 PM by bigtree
. . . and the seats they hold cannot (yet) hope to make up a working majority to advance their initiatives into action or law. Hell, their seats (and supporters) couldn't even hold the House this time.

Will there ever be enough progressives elected to make up a progressive majority in our legislature? Or, will moderate and conservative Democrats always be needed to make up the difference we need to obtain and hold the majority?
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Better Today Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Then the President and the DNC need to let that happen and not
interfere on behalf of BlueDogs like Landrieu and Lincoln, weren't there a few more where more progressive candidates were doing fine in the primaries till the WH and the DNC did everything they could to support the DINO?
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Did someone declare this "Piss on a Progressive Critic Day"?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I just got back to this board after a few days off
Edited on Fri Nov-05-10 12:43 PM by bigtree
All I saw when I opened the page were attacks on the White House and the President for the loss of the House.

Asking where progressives' responsibility lies for that failure isn't an attack. It's a query.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Really? People like me, who thought the stimulus was too small
and not correctly targeted, but still voted and worked to get Dems elected, are responsible?

I think Obama made many bad choices for his economic team. I think Bernanke is making another big mistake with his latest round of quantitative easing. So if my concerns about a new asset bubble come to pass, will it be MY fault for not waving my pompoms?

The ECONOMY was the reason we lost so many seats. Voters don't need progressives or the "professional left" to tell them what they are experiencing every day.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. someone didn't show up to vote for Democrats
. . . to provide the margin of victory in states which gave republicans the majority. Obviously it wasn't you. but someone is responsible.

That's the quandary in the progressive demands. Are progressive critics saying that the WH should pursue policies without regard to the political consequences? I think that embracing many of the issues progressive critics say the WH should have would have generated even more backlash from conservative voters in the opposition.

Or are progressive critics claiming that more support of their policies from the WH would bring more Democrats out to vote in these conservative-dominated districts to make a winning difference? I'm not seeing that.

If there was opposition to the stimulus and other economic moves by this WH that were the cause of the House loss, how do they balance those complaints on the right and left to ensure a Democratic victory? Can they?
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. The exit polls don't support your premise.
<snip>
"Among independents, 6 out of 10 disapproved of the job Obama's doing. And independent voters, who favored Democrats in 2006 and 2008, moved decisively to the GOP this time. Suburban voters made the same switch."

and more....

"The number of voters who consider themselves "conservative" jumped to about 40 percent — twice the number of liberals.

Voters who said they cast ballots for Obama in 2008 mostly stayed with the Democrats on Tuesday, back the president on the economic stimulus package, and would like to see even more done to improve the nation's health care."



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gNp73fvm8rUi4xtEpwCX6_ZMkV-g?docId=62a5160e69b34c91a7d491ade57a249a

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. in the states and districts where he lost Progressives have yet to make up a winning majority
That's their fault as much as it may be the Presidents.

What you're arguing is their overall impact and even that shows the limits of their impact in this election. There simply weren't enough progressive voters at the polls to make up the difference in the races that we lost.

The point in raising that is to wonder what the effect of the President advocating for more progressive policies would be on the outcome in those areas that we lost. Would that bring out more progressives in those states and districts? What would be the blowback effect from conservative voters in those states and districts?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. Progressives should stop letting Regressives win
yup
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. some folks just like to punch hippies
Can't stop you if you think that helps. It doesn't.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Sometimes hippies earn that punching

This election year is one of those times.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. right--i guess we were asking for it
sorry your knuckles were bruised
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I'm a hippy
Edited on Fri Nov-05-10 02:41 PM by bigtree
We called ourselves liberal all of the years we fought Reagan and his republicans (and all of the years since).

I feel like folks who identify themselves as progressives take sport in punching folks who held up the left in this party for years. Certainly the agenda has changed from our defense of the working-poor, our defense of affirmative action, our fight for affordable health care, our fight against U.S. sponsorship of military juntas abroad, our fight to protect minority and disabled rights, and our fight against tax giveaways to the rich.

Most of all that is forgotten these days. It's not as if the republican party has become any less pernicious, and its not as if any of those positions have changed. What's happened is that the progressive agenda has broadened past what us liberals spent our time defending. There is still a need to defend and advocate on behalf of all of the 'liberal' issues and we're still fighting.

We may well have a different political strategy for obtaining these things. For instance, I don't think many progressive critics actually see much value in the Democratic majority. They certainly don't advocate like they care (at least it didn't seem like they were greatly concerned with the majority until we lost the House.)
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. It would help if President Obama fights for working people instead of Wall Street and corporations.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
19. You don't think that single payer wouldn't have sent approval

ratings into the stratosphere? You don't think that with the bully pulpit that simple, straightforward idea couldn't have been communicated?

The only thing this White House has worked hard for is the capitalists.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. there's a limit to the effectiveness of the 'bully pulpit'
In the case of 'single-payer' there simply wasn't enough support in the legislature. It's possible that the President could have held up progress on HCR and worked to make it a campaign issue. I just don't think there was some straight line to success.

That's what the President's attitude was about spending political capital defending items unsupported in the numbers he needed in the legislature he was facing. He made the calculation that his best chance for anything passing on HCR was with this Congress and in this half of his term. I don't think he was wrong.

Who knows what he would have faced in this election if he'd dome things differently? We do know, however, that most policies advocated by our party and president are destined to spark an equal and rallying reaction from the opposition.
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Beartracks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. Lack of votes ultimately fault of voters.
At the end of the day, an average 20% turnout is pretty dismal.Sure, independents may not have been "inspired" to vote for Dems, but actual Dems needed to get more of their butts to the polls.

The whole selfish "I'm not going to vote so that the Dems get the message not to take me for granted" crap ACTUALLY sent a different message to the Republicans: "Hey, GOP, you have a clear path to wreak your havoc on my country. Have fun!"

---------------
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
25. No, the failure resides where it always does, at the top.
Edited on Fri Nov-05-10 03:24 PM by mmonk
They alone determine direction and outcome. By top, I mean with the party's leadership collectively. Accepting responsibility of that failure and not laying the blame at the feet of others would go a long way in estabishing a display of leadership.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. they have a dilemma
In the districts and states they need to make up a winning margin for their majority, they need to field candidates which reflect the ideology and positions of their constituency if they expect to win.

My point is that there aren't enough progressive voters to make up that difference in those states; at least in these midterm elections. In presidential races, there may be more of an opportunity to bypass those conservative votes than in the legislative contests. I agree that legislative leaders need to take responsibility, but I'd argue that this administration and the Democratic leaders were paying more attention to these conservative regions than progressive critics would think prudent or correct.

The argument that I'm responding to from progressive critics is whether the administration needs to 'double-down' on its appeal and concern for progressive issues in response to the loss of the House and the tightening in the Senate. I'm not convinced that, in these states and districts where we lost, that a more progressive-based strategy would make the difference with voters there.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-10 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. That's an argument I have heard many times but experience shows
they are the first in first out politicians. If you have good constituent services, they will vote for you on the local level.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
29. Criticism putting folk in motion is one thing; criticism simply driving folk away is another thing
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-10 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
31. Rec'd. Far too much logic and common sense in this OP
Edited on Fri Nov-05-10 10:59 PM by Number23
No wonder it's apparently being ignored.

Even though what happened on Tuesday was expected (and in fact the beating was not nearly as brutal as expected), many here want to pretend that (of course) this is Obama's fault. The reporting on this story from the British and Australian papers has been interesting. There has not been one analysis from these papers that portray the results as a surprise. Seems that folks on the other side of the world understand American politics better than folks sitting right smack dab in the middle of it.
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