Bill Maher's Harsh Critique of the Stewart/Colbert Rally

[Swede]

Tonight, Bill Maher criticized last week's Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear, saying, "If you're going to have a rally... you might as well make it about something," before detailing his specific problems with Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert's efforts.

http://tv.gawker.com/5683124/bill-mahers-harsh-critique-of-the-stewartcolbert-rally

[underpants]

1. MArk for later

[Little Star]

2. Maher is correct!

[H2O Man]

3. Recommended.

It was a good show last night. Sometimes, I watch it for entertainment; last night, it was more than clever jokes, etc. I really enjoyed it.

[madmax]

4. As a staunch supporter of JS a combination

of DU posts protesting the remarks by Jon at the Rally and BM's statement last night, I agree Jon stepped a bit over the line regarding Keith and Beck.

Oh my, I've just flip-flopped or is it compromise? Appeasement? Hell, I don't know but, since I took a stand - and then changed my mind a bit, what does that make me? Watch it!! :evilgrin:

[tavalon]

6. Yeah, I'm starting to see the other side

Actually, I'm seeing more than two sides.

[madmax]

9. Yes, yes! thank you - more than 2 sides nt

[tavalon]

10. Funny that, eh?

Life is an awful lot like that and becomes more so the older I get. I see side upon side upon side except when I don't.

[madmax]

12. Agree - getting older does have benefits besides

aches and pains ;) :hug:

[seabeyond]

17. keith is right. stewart is right. yes yes yes i was saying on so many threads

during the argument on du, presenting different opinions on the issue.

it was not black and white.

i saw the contradiction of stewart interview with obama and then his rally.

but what bothers me is the last couple shows of his this week after the rally. he has sneered at obama (and it was not joking or being a comedian) and dismissed the left and the argument. not good form.

[madmax]

28. That will be my new mantra

Nothing is black or white, there are shades of grey. Funny how the obvious is so well hidden :evilgrin:

[sabrina 1]

36. What he did was simply a huge factual error, or a lie. There is no

comparison between Keith and the MSNBC lineup, and Fox. To say so put him in the same category as Fox himself.

But it was also a dangerous thing to say and to cause some gullible people to maybe agree. Because we know that our media was devoid of liberal voices for nearly the entire Bush era, so having a few is very important, keeping them should be the goal of anyone who cares about a free presss which we do not have, but Keith at least started to open some doors back in.

Now, I believe the bosses at MSNBC remembered STewart's remark, and thought with his popularity, it would make the beginning of silencing liberal voices easy 'after all they're no different from Fox'. They thought even the fickle left would not make a fuss.

RAchel's last two shows revealed how upset she was about it, but she chose to be subtle in her response to Stewarts false equivalent. They were classic shows, she never mentioned his name, but she did ask him a question without using his name in her Thursday night show. I hope he was watching.

He was popular because he exposed lies on tv, but when he himself begins to tell lies, he should understand he will lose respect. I always liked him, but he went down in my estimation that day.

[seabeyond]

41. he himself begins to tell lies, he should understand he will lose respect

i agree with all you say. i enjoyed stewart too. but if he has no desire to clarify what he was saying at the rally, make a distinction between fox and msnbc, or bring up the fact of little left representation, how saying both do it null and voids the problem, then he, too, fails.

[WCGreen]

25. i firmly believe that thoughtful, clear and non-judgmental thinking

comes naturally after having your first non self-inflicted orgasm.

[Marr]

33. Careful.

[handmade34]

21. me too... not really a flip flop but

I went to the rally and loved it... but watched Jon Stewart give credibility to Fox news on his show this week... Bill Mahar was spot on

[Poboy]

5. Recommend!

[DirkGently]

7. Maher made the point perfectly. Obama is not a Marxist. Bush IS a war criminal. Etc.

Rightwing extremist dogma is now the official position of the Republican Party. There's no Left equivalent of, for example, pretending Global Warming is a "hoax."

Their mythology is not the equivalent of our truth. Period.

[Windy]

13. he's right. i thought the same thing when i watched the rally. nt

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

15. Obama is not a NAZI, but Bush just might be a war criminal.

As Maher noted...

*That's not similar rhetoric because the latter may be a fact according to (IIRC) General Taguba.

*And name the Democrats that are claiming that 9/11 was an inside job.


I can't believe they held this event on the final weekend before the election. I wasn't home to watch it. Why? Because I was out canvassing for Alexi Giannoulias and Gov. Pat Quinn!

[Marr]

34. I'd say their mythology is not the equivalent of our interpretation of facts.

We could all acknowledge objective facts and still have plenty of room to debate and argue. But the Republicans aren't operating on facts, and haven't been for a very long time. You're right, there's no middle ground between a made-up nonsense and a fact-based argument.

[Caliman73]

39. Agreed

The fact the Keith took in the critique and took a look at the message his show might be sending with the "Worst Persons" segment, and modified it, shows another very important difference. Progressive hosts tend to be more introspective and though they present ideas from the progressive point of view, they do not compromise their integrity for the sake of pushing through an agenda. Fox is all about the propaganda while Keith, Rachel and others are about putting information out there with a different point of view.

[DirkGently]

52. We are facing the calculated, methodical removal of objectivity from the national debate.

Look at the narrative that's been pushed, and successfully.

- "The media" in general has a "liberal bias." Thus, ANY fact not in step with rightwing politics may freely dismissed without proof.

- Teachers and college professors similarly cannot be trusted. Anything the educated class has to say is by definition "elitist," and likewise subject to freewheeling dismissal without debate.

- Science, likewise, can be dismissed in favor of political or religious thoughts. After all, science is made up of "theories," while the Bible, for example, cannot be questioned.

- Flat-out crazy, objectively false statements are now made routinely by serious, establishment rightwing politicians. Grassley says he believes in healthcare "death panels." The very-nearly-elected Sharron Angle says we have Sharia law in Detroit. Mainstream news sources report that Obama is spending $200 million per day on a trip to India. Michele Bachmann suggests the U.S. Census just might be a secret plan to round up Republicans for internment camps.

In other words, truth has become irrelevant.

When called out these complete fabrications, rather than being ashamed, or embarrassed, or even issuing a correction, rightwingers simply say they "read it somewhere." The idea is that Fox and rightwing blogs are the equivalent of real factual information. Literally any lie is taken as true until disproven, and when disproven, are met with a shrug and sigh and readily dismissed.

Thus, ABC news very nearly elevates Andrew Breitbart to the status of a political "commentator," despite the fact he has declared his sole mission in life is "to destroy the institutional left," and his direct association with the ACORN and Sherrod smears.

Rachel was right. We are living in a fact-free era. What's worse is that we have traded a model of RELIGIOUS FANATICISM for political discourse. As long as that is the case, any possibility for social, political, or economic progress approaches zero.

[tinrobot]

8. Harsh? He's spot-on.

[WA98296]

30. Agree

[ShamelessHussy]

11. k&r

thanks for sharing :toast:

[JitterbugPerfume]

14. that is what I thought about the rally

I was loving the music and antics, but I kept wondering when the "good stuff" was going to start. I think they missed a unique opportunity to make a real difference.

[Johonny]

16. On a clear day you can see Catalina

[underpants]

18. "The crowd was twice the size of the Beck rally.... but it weighed the same"

:rofl:

I get Maher's point but Stewart/Colbert were trying to make it for the middle and not an openly political rally...which it was anyway

[prairierose]

19. Thanks Bill for articulating the problem with false equivalency...

it is a logical fallacy. You illustrated it brilliantly. These two things are not the same but glenn beck, bill o'liely and their friends will say a million times a day that they are.

What's that you say...logical fallacy...something most Americans wouldn't recognize if you used words of less than one syllable but the way faux news has operated for years. The big lie and false equivalency work great together as those of us who are not rw nutjobs can see by the effect on those who can not think their way out of a wet paper bag.

[Smarmie Doofus]

20. NOBODY says it better. n/t

[RiverStone]

22. Rec'd --- to DU front page with this Vid!

[tpsbmam]

23. Nailed it! K&R n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

24. Must run..but am marking this for later perusal..

[baldguy]

26. "If you truly wanted to come down of the side of restoring sanity and reason..."

"...you'd side with the sane and the reasonable, and not try to pretend that the insanity is equally distributed in both parties."

:applause:

[Zenlitened]

27. K&R. Maher laid it all out beautifully! - n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

29. That new rule was a thing of beauty.

There was something about that Stewart/Colbert rally that really bothered me and I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but Bill pegged it exactly. That was brilliant.

[AndrewP]

46. It was very well stated n/t

[laundry_queen]

47. Yes, he freakin' nailed it. nt

[walldude]

31. This board is the most FICKLE place on the internet...

In 2 weeks Mahr and Olbermann will be under the bus AGAIN.... Maybe Jon will be driving.

[ShamelessHussy]

42. i think you see what you want to

[walldude]

44. LMAO.. yeah right...

Are you saying that Olbermann has never been under the bus? Or that Stewart isn't under the bus now? Or that Bill Mahr has never been under the bus?

Ever heard of Jane Hamsher or Glenn Greenwald? They were heros here when Bush was President.

I've been a member here for over 6 years, I think that gives me the right to comment on the FICKLENESS of DU'ers.

[ShamelessHussy]

45. the world has many shades, however some only see black & white

that doesn't mean there is no color.

as i said, you see what you want to.

[Clyde39]

32. Major gaffe---comparing Keith to Beck

Stewart should have known better.

[Marr]

35. Matt Taibbi did the same thing in his book, The Great Derangement.

It just seemed odd. He begins with an investigation into the right wing Christian mindset, which was cleverly described and pretty illuminating. Then he switches gears, does the same thing with the "Truther" movement, and implies that they're somehow equal. In terms of distance from reality, I suppose they are, but one is incredibly widespread and influential, with a very real effect on public life in the US, while the other is a completely ignored collection of fringe political activists. It's like comparing the Chinese Army to the Colorado Badminton Club.

I suppose it's always tempting to see both sides as being the same, even though history, even very recent history, is chock full of examples where both sides were very cleary not the same. Somehow, people lose perspective when looking at things in our time. Maybe because acknowledging the fundamental difference would require them to take a side.

[roody]

37. +100!

[mudplanet]

38. Didn't see anything harsh about it. If anything it was respectful of

his colleagues.

[Douglas Carpenter]

40. I find Bill Maher an arrogant, smug Jackass...but on this he is 100% right

[fishwax]

43. I thought the rally was entertaining at times

I enjoyed watching it. But it was entertaining more than it was productive or influential. Nothing wrong with entertainment, of course.

[Poboy]

48. .

[patrice]

49. Maher is right on. I like JS, but have been bothered by his radical centrism for months.

I really feel he is a closet plutocrat.

[pacalo]

50. "Harsh"? Not at all. It's "the truth".

"Throwing Jon Stewart under the bus?". No, Jon Stewart was driving the bus & decided it was okay to drive over those who were trying to prevent the bad guys from pushing us off the cliff.

I like Jon Stewart, but he's not above making mistakes.

[NJmaverick]

51. K&R