Is Nancy Pelosi the only "progressive choice" for Minority Leader?

[RiverStone]

I'm on the fence with this decision.

One one hand, I agree 100% with those Dems who argue the last thing we need as Minority Leader is a "centrist" or even worse, a Blue Dog (AKA Heath Shuler). We need a very partisan leader who will not shy away from attacking the soon to be majority wing nuts. We need a leader who can publicly draw a clear line between us and them; a leader who can point to republican obstructionism and their zealous agenda to make sure President Obama loses a second term vs doing the work of the people.

On the other hand, Nancy Pelosi is part of a House team that just got it's ass kicked. Despite the fact she has done a good job keeping her caucus together, the public perception of her is polarizing and kinda in the been there, done that category. Despite her popularity here on DU and other progressive blogs - the voting public is not near as informed as those of us here. I really don't think having Nancy Pelosi step in and quarterback a team that just lost in a rout inspires much enthusiasm - particular with the voters we need the most!

Who can inspire the return of all those apathetic Dems and Indies that sat on their pathetic ass and refused to vote? Call it TV politics, but we need to create a new battle cry that rallies the voters back into the booth! It's about WINNING in 2012 because the pukes are ALL about kicking Obama out and seizing more power in 2012.

Do you see any other progressive Dems who can still fight from the left, but be a new face that could inspire excitement? In particular, someone who can rev up young voters (we lost many in this last election that were with us in 08).

[MiniMe]

1. I think it would be Steny Hoyer if it wasn't Nancy

Steny is currently the majority leader and that should make him the minority leader. I'd rather have Nancy of the 2.

[KingOfLostSouls]

2. I'd have liked to seen nancy as minority whip

just cause republicans have made her TOO much of the face, not that she's done a bad job, I heart the speaker.

but she CAN get the votes. just right now we probably need someone who's as bare knuckled and partisan but won't be as easy to caricature, however unfairly it was done.

she definitely deserves to be part of the leadership and I trust her in the leadership just we need kinda a fresh brand going into 2012.

[glowing]

3. Who has seniority in the House at this point?

Who would fight? Who wouldn't take anything off the table? Who would inspire people to move, vote and work like mad for 2012?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

4. Is this *REAL* news or Faux News?

This is a joke, right? A non-story concocted and whipped into a frenzy by the RW Noise Machine?

[RiverStone]

8. The *REAL* news, it's been 60+ years since the Dems were this outweighed...

....in the House! And only twice in the last 100 years has it been this bad!!!

Do you expect life to go on as if nothing happened?

I'm with Nancy on her policies, but I'm far from convinced she can do much to help us win in 2012.

If we don't mix things up in a big way which demonstrate a new and improved strategy for winning, my future grandchildren may be subject to a rightie wacko SCOTUS.

What do you think is a winning strategy?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

16. I think you give Americans too much credit.

I don't believe Nancy Pelosi was the face of our demise because I don't believe that those who sat out even know who she is or what she's accomplished. This is how I view the uninformed observer's mindset: this is a do nothing Congress, it doesn't matter if I vote, I'll stay home.

What we've failed to communicate is Pelosi did accomplish! Instead, we let the RW Noise Machine grab all the Pelosi headlines. People don't understand that hundreds of bills passed by the Pelosi House went to the Senate to die. That's our failure, not Pelosi's.

Why do the work of the RW rather than rebuild her reputation? After all, as leader of the minority party, she's no longer "a threat to America."

[RiverStone]

18. Point taken, but then WHO will counter the RW noise machine?

I get the 200 bill thing.

I get that the party of NO (in the Senate) were the obstructionists here.

But we pay attention on DU, and I agree with you that much of America does not see see the cause and effect. But like it or not, that is our reality. And what I'm trying to get at is we need to come up a one hell of a message and messenger to grab the 6:00 news. Someone who like Keith Olbermann --- pisses people off and makes people pay attention!!!

Can Nancy do that? That is, reach the general public who will only pay attention if it's a fight and a nasty one at that!

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

28. I have felt that the leaders...

...especially Reid, were kneecapped by the Obama Adm. Some of us expected our leaders to fight for us and were disappointed every time they acquiesced. I believe their intention was to fight for us. I believe they got orders not to. This -- not fighting for "change we can believe in" -- is what lead to the 2010 outcome, and I think you have to pin that failure on Obama, not Pelosi or Reid.

I suppose a leader to the right of Pelosi would resolve that disconnect. Since I'm to the left of Obama, I don't see that as a good thing. I'm one of those who believe that Obama needs to be pushed to the left. Regardless, I don't believe Pelosi, as minority leader, puts Dems in peril in 2012.

Not at all.

[RiverStone]

30. Then if you are correct...

I hope House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi takes the message you expressed (which I agree with), straight to President Obama and shout "do we get to fight for real change or not"!!!

I could live with that - and it would make the 6:00 news!:hi:

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

31. OMG! I had a discuss with a cool person and didn't get flamed!

:hi:

[RiverStone]

33. Of course, we are on the same side!

:fistbump:

From one cool person to another...

[DCKit]

5. Given that the Blue Dogs and New Dems got their asses handed to them..

The CPC is now the majority of House Dems, and there are several who qualify to lead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus

[OHdem10]

6. Do not yell, but I have never understood why the Party didnot

appoint Howard Dean as special envoy or something to work
with Young Democrats. He was like the Pied Piper with
the younger set. We need a Serios Young Democrats.
The GOP is always having events and meetings with Young
Republicans. They get assigned reading .

[OHdem10]

7. If we can stay calm, Nancy knows what she is doing.

[Davis_X_Machina]

9. Reward good behavior.

Isn't that what Kos and Atrios and Co keep saying...

200+ bills, passed by the House, implementing the Democratic agenda right across the board.

Killed in the Senate by the Party of No.

All institutional disasters are followed by the search for scapegoats, followed by the punishment of the victims, promotions for the guilty, and praise for those who did nothing. Why would the Democratic Party behave differently?

[RiverStone]

10. What about the Democratic agenda called winning?

Not scape-goating Nancy, but our party leadership failed to see the value in Howard Dean's 50 state strategy and become to fucking complacent. They lost touch with the populous that elected them - apathy killed us, did you see Rahm Emanuel bolt before the ride tide?

You pay attention!

But I'm talking about TV politics - the perception of your average voter that watches realty TV and believes it. Nancy does not a damn thing to inspire them to rally to the cause. We need someone from the left - like Kucinich, but with the appeal and newness to get people interested again.

[BeFree]

17. Perceptions

If we throw Pelosi under the bus, voters will have a perception of failure.

Keeping Pelosi makes us look strong and united.

[RiverStone]

20. United...maybe, but strong?

Strong wins. We lost HUGE.

Something has to change or history will repeat in 2012. I keep hearing people say keep Nancy, but then if not her --- what do you think needs to change to win in 2012 BeFree?

[BeFree]

23. Huge?

No, it wasn't huge. It was mainly bluedogs who had been elected by more people in 2008.
Had the same number of people voted as in 2008, we would not have the same perception.

What happened was that a real small minority had the perception, due to all the big money lies,
that it would be better to give the keys back to the republicans, because, by gosh, Obama Pelosi are dangerous liberals!!

I didn't buy into and only a small minority of Americans did. It was their stupidity that handed
the keys back, let's not support that stupidity.

[RiverStone]

24. Even President Obama said it was a "shellacking"!

Spin the stats how ever you want, in my world we got our ass kicked. And if Dems don't do something to change the course, it will happen again!

You still did not answer my question BeFree, what do you think needs to change to help us WIN BIG in 2102? Anything?

[BeFree]

44. 2102?

Heh, nice typo...

In 2012, there will be another record turnout and we will sweep the election, again.
From now til then? Unity. We have our elected leaders, we should support them. We need to copy the pubbies 11th commandment.

Yeah, its fun to shoot our team in the feet. But that fun always turns into tragedy as it did this week.

[Davis_X_Machina]

25. The job of a speaker is to pass legislation.

Nancy passed legislation -- tons of it.

You want a spokesmodel? Or do you want stuff passed?

Incidentally, Boehner was a minority leader who got a shellacking in 2008, and came back to become Speaker.
The GOP again is better at these things than us. They don't go chasing bright shiny objects. They focus.

[RiverStone]

26. Then tell me what do you think needs to change?!

I get the legislative action items Davis. Yes, I agree - Nancy is effective in that way. But I keep hearing people saying "keep her" - but not offering other suggestions on what or who or how the message or messengers need to change to WIN in 2012.

Lets say Nancy stays, what do you think needs to be done differently the next 2 years for the Dems to have a much better showing (+ keep the presidency) in 2012?

[Davis_X_Machina]

27. Marketing....

....not product content, nor its production.

The guys who brew Sam Adams don't cut the ads for Sam Adams. Yeah, they'll show up sometimes as extras, and props, but they brew the beer. And the guys from Creative aren't allowed near the tanks, either.

[RiverStone]

35. then if it's Nancy...

I hope you contact the next House Minority Leader's team with some marketing advice.

They need it!!!

Thanks for offering part of the "solution" Davis. :hi:

[Davis_X_Machina]

37. The Democratic Party, and the Democratic movement

...contains the House Democratic caucus, but is not co-extensive with the House Democratic Caucus. Nor is the House Democratic Caucus the whole of the Democratic Party.

You've got the White House, the National Committee, individual members who are fond of such things -- Grayson, e.g. fat lot of good it did him -- such media presence as we have, even the little people like you and me.

This, I thought, should be obvious. But then I'm not mono-maniacally committed to claiming Pelosi's scalp.

To each his own...

[treestar]

38. The House passed the bills!

Why blame the House leadership for the Senate?

Geez!

[RiverStone]

41. It's all a kabuki dance anyway...

Perception is everything in politics. My mantra on this thread is if you want Nancy to stay treestar, then what should we do differently in 2012 to win? I just want to make sure we reverse the ride tide...

I'm not advocating for someone more moderate or centrist to take on the pukes, but maybe a new progressive Minority Leader who will excite the electorate? It's totally shameful when you look at the vast number of lazy fucks in <[[[[our own party that refused to vote>]]]] last Tuesday. Guess they need more stimulation - as if the threat of having bigots and flat earthers in power was not enough!

[krabigirl]

11. Why not kucinich?

[phleshdef]

21. I love Kucinich, but he is too much of a lone wolf for that kind of position.

[MrScorpio]

12. She raised and lot of cash for Democrats and she got lots of Legislation passed

She's EFFECTIVE!

She's a shoo in.

[RiverStone]

14. How much does "winning real votes" factor into effective?

She is absolutely effective as a legislator. To reiterate, we need someone as left as Nancy for sure.

But part of being a good leader is recognizing the disconnect between people on the street and what's happening on The Hill; if we did a better job of that (which includes President Obama and Nancy Pelosi) - we would not have gotten beat so bad.

MrScorpio - if not Nancy, then what (or who) do you suggest needs to be changed to have a much better showing in 2012?

[MrScorpio]

29. We need more MONEY!

That's what slammed us this time; all the right wing cash thrown against us.

I really don't think that the lefty-est of messages is our guarantee of success when it comes to resonating with the American people.

What the voter is always asking is, "What have you done for me lately?"

Our goal should be to get the message out, loud and clear, and answer them with WHAT WE'VE DONE FOR THEM LATELY!

And that's why we need Pelosi in the trenches, hammering out the results that we can truthfully tout.

And money allows us to spread that message.

Now if you want the House Dems demos to go left, that's going to be up to the rank and file to get liberals and progressives elected and retained in as many districts as possible. Since a lot of the Blue Dogs are now gone, a lot of our work is already done for us by way of subsequent elections.

I really don't think that moving out a sure fire producer at the top with some who's unsure, merely because we want a more liberal person there is the best way to go.

We need someone to walk the walk and we need to talk the walk with as many people possible... Nancy Pelosi can do the first, the rest is up to us.

[RiverStone]

32. This is the kind of discussion that our party leaders need to be having

Be Nancy or not; though I'd wager she will become the next House Minority leader - we need to hear from party leadership that the get the disconnect.

Speaking of money, I'd look into investigating the US Chamber of Commerce and the source of their $$$ to start. I'd also invite Howard Dean back into a leadership role. We shoulda kept his 50 state strategy high on the radar.

I appreciate it when folks who advocate the status quo in personnel, also express ways to do things differently. Thanks! :hi:

[treestar]

39. She was effective!

Then why should she take the hit for the alleged ineffectiveness of other Democrats?

Geezus Krist on a trailer hitch!

This is a Punishment for the party, which you so want to punish, but pick out the people who don't deserve it.

Try that attitude on Republicans

[RiverStone]

42. see post #41

What to do to win in 2012...?

[kenny blankenship]

13. I support Nancy. The defeat of Dems is due to Conservadems in the Senate & their Enabler in Chief

I can find things to argue about with Nancy Pelosi, but of all the actors in this recent farce she is the LEAST objectionable.

[RiverStone]

15. Then what do you suggest needs to change to win in 2012?

Please elaborate...

[kenny blankenship]

19. A President who understands he's a Democrat and the Republicans are his enemy - could help.

It would have been nice to have a Senate Democratic caucus that realized it needed to pass legislation that helped ordinary people and pass it in a rapid manner to assure people it was acting vigorously and swiftly in the face of a CRISIS. Instead, we got the spectacle of Conservadems holding bills up to help Repukes defeat them and denature them. Voters got the impression -not entirely mistakenly- of a Democratic Party dangerously out of touch with predicaments faced by the average American household.

How do you change that? You sure as hell aren't to fix that by casting Nancy Pelosi out of the leadership, because her replacement will be someone to the right and a deal fixer for big $$ interests active in Washington. No way does she get replaced by a Progressive/Liberal.

It's a fucking stupid idea if you are "concerned" about Democrats being "out of touch". It's a stupid idea to replace her with a fixer who really is out of touch. But go right ahead and dig the hole even deeper for Democrats. I'm about past caring.

[RiverStone]

22. Then ya better give Nancy and President Obama a dose of your good advice!

I agree with 99% with your sentiments.

If you notice in my OP, I'm not advocating for anyone to the right of Nancy to replace her. But if Nancy is to remain in power, how the fuck do you get the message you articulated into her head?! Might as well toss in President Obama and his handlers as well. Because the hole you spoke of was dug by voter apathy and being out of touch with the people that elected them.

I do disagree with one thing you said kenny, I doubt you are really "past caring" - or why would you be here. :hi:

[Safetykitten]

34. This is why we can't have nice things. Like relevancy.

[treestar]

36. If she did a good job with Blue Dogs in her caucus

Then in this new situation, where her caucus has far fewer of them, why shouldn't she do even better?

[rampart]

40. marcy kaptur

an effective progressive, a real leader in the foreclosure crisis.

sorry about ms pelosi, but taking impeachment for war crimes off the table was a big mistake.

[rufus dog]

43. And if it isn't Nancy the other person will be completely demonized by the right and media

This really isn't hard to figure out. They will pull a character assassination on whoever is picked. So there is a choice capitulate and take their shit, or stand up and fight for a fighter.