Bill Maher blasts false equivalencies in amazing New Rule

[Joanne98]

Full transcript below the fold.

BruinKid's diary :: ::
And finally, New Rule, if you're going to have a rally where hundreds of thousands of people show up, you might as well go ahead and make it about something. With all due respect to my friends Jon and Stephen, it seems to me that if you truly wanted to come down on the side of restoring sanity and reason, you'd side with the sane and the reasonable, and not try to pretend that the insanity is equally distributed in both parties.

Keith Olbermann is right, when he says he's not the equivalent of Glenn Beck. One reports facts, the other one is very close to playing with his poop.

And the big mistake of modern media has been this notion of balance for balance's sake, that the left is just as violent and cruel as the right, that unions are just as powerful as corporations, that reverse racism is just as damaging as racism. There's a difference between a mad man, and a madman.

Now, getting over 200,000 people to come to a liberal rally is a great achievement, and gave me hope. And what I really loved about it was that it was twice the size of the Glenn Beck crowd on the Mall in August! Although it weighed the same.

But the message of the rally, as I heard it, was that if the media would just stop giving voice to the crazies on both sides, then maybe we could restore sanity. It was all non-partisan, and urged cooperation with the moderates on the other side, forgetting that Obama tried that, and found out there are no moderates on the other side.

When Jon announced his rally, he said that the national conversation is dominated by people on the right who believe Obama's a socialist, and people on the left who believe 9/11 was an inside job. But I can't name any Democratic leaders who think 9/11 was an inside job. But Republican leaders who think Obama's a socialist? All of them! McCain, Boehner, Cantor, Palin, all of them! It's now official Republican dogma, like tax cuts pay for themselves, and gay men just haven't met the right woman.

As another example of both sides using overheated rhetoric, Jon cited the right equating Obama with Hitler, and the left calling Bush a war criminal. Except thinking Obama is like Hitler is utterly unfounded, but thinking Bush is a war criminal? That's the opinion of General Anthony Taguba, who headed the Army's investigation into Abu Ghraib.

You see, Republicans keep staking out a position that is further and further right, and then demand Democrats meet them in the middle, which is now not the middle anymore. That's the reason health care reform is so watered down; it's Bob Dole's old plan from 1994. Same thing with cap-and-trade; it was the first President Bush's plan to deal with carbon emissions. Now the Republican plan for climate change is to claim it's a hoax.

But it's not. I know that because I've lived in L.A. since '83, and there's been a change in the city: I can see it now. All of us who live out here have had that experience. Oh look, there's a mountain there! Government, led by liberal Democrats, passed laws which changed the air I breathe for the better. OK, I'm for them! And not for the party that is, as we speak, plotting to abolish the EPA. And I don't need to pretend that both sides have a point here. And I don't care what left or right commentators say about it; I only care what climate scientists say about it.

Two opposing sides don't necessarily have two compelling arguments. Martin Luther King spoke on that Mall in the capitol, and he didn't say, "Remember folks, those Southern sheriffs with the fire hoses and the German shepherds, they have a point too!" No, he said, "I have a dream, they have a nightmare!" This isn't Team Edward and Team Jacob. Liberals, like the ones on that field, must stand up and be counted, and not pretend that we're as mean or greedy or short-sighted or just plain batshit as they are. And if that's too polarizing for you, and you still want to reach across the aisle and hold hands and sing with someone on the right, try church!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/11/6/918124/-Bill-Maher-blasts-false-equivalencies-in-amazing-New-Rule

[Merlot]

1. oh, thank you Bill! You said it better than anyone.

So much truth here, and then truth wrapped in humor:

"Keith Olbermann is right, when he says he's not the equivalent of Glenn Beck. One reports facts, the other one is very close to playing with his poop."

[calimary]

8. LOVE that one!

[txlibdem]

70. Bill Maher cuts through the crap (pardon the pun)

He does not mince words and he says it like it is.

The main thing I am confused about is just how gullible and stupid the American voter is... But that's another thing entirely.

[Hamlette]

2. k and r

[Divine Discontent]

30. +1! This was spot on! Sorry, Jon, but you're wrong here. Keith has been bullied and marred for

being a factual voice, and at time his righteous voice of anger comes out, but that's rare - and when he uses that voice in his special comments, it's for DAMNED GOOD REASONS! (torture, war, etc)

[Gregorian]

3. My sentiments exactly.

But they are comedians. At least that was their excuse. I wanted Bill Hicks, but I got political correctness.

They are high paid comedians who are backed by big corporations. I'm surprised they did what they did at all.

[auntsue]

4. You can NOT play nice with monsters

They'll eat you alive! The only way to stop a bully is to kick him in the shins. You don't try to have a "dialog
with a raving lunatic. You have to subdue them first. I don't know why the current administration is so determine to make nice with the right wing crowd. They are clearly crazy and ruthless - a bad combination. I really hoped President Obama had a subtle chesslike strategy - I guess I was wrong about that. Really the time for dialog is gone. They will try to destroy him like they did with Clinton. There will be dirty tricks, and trumped up "impeachment" attempts. There are a lot of savy Dems who can advise Obama and his team about how to use every legal means to overcome this situation. I hope and pray that they do!!!

[Upton]

5. Bill Maher speaks for me..

Jon Stewart is doing nothing but pandering to Faux News and it's audience..

[Clyde39]

6. As a long time Stewart/Colbert follower, I was extremely disappointed

What possibly possessed them to compare Olbermann and Beck? I thought they were smart----maybe not!

[PerpetuallyDazed]

26. The rally was about Restoring Sanity

It advocated rational dialogue over the extremist hyperbole and soundbites in our media personalities. It was not a condemnation of MESSAGE, but on TACTICS; Stewart is a die-hard liberal, much like Olbermann. If you were there, you might remember the fun-house mirror metaphor he used... Am I the one who realizes this?

[liberation]

52. A fallacy is a fallacy, whether you are using it to "restore sanity" or write a bad novel...

If he is asking other people to be held to specific standards, it is only fair to request the same from Mr. Stewart.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

88. But Stewart can hide behind his comedy mask... ;)

It's all very logical if you think it through. He can't be held to the same standards because he's employed by ComedyCentral/VIACOM who, (like EVERY 24-hr news network) errs on the side of $$$ and sole purpose is to provide entertainment for more $$$. If TDS content happens to be of substantial worth, that's in OUR perception not in standards the network has set for them.

[Poboy]

110. 'hide behind his comedy mask'- yep, thats what he does. Hypocritical coward.

He then proceeds on his show last wedsday to kiss Chris Wallace's ass, holding him up and complimenting his great 'journalism'. He held up Chris Wallace as a model of how good journalism is done.

Chris Wallace? What a load of shit.

[PatrynXX]

58. I supported it at first but then figured it out and more of a delayed shock than

anything else. Stephen Colbert. Never trust him. But Jon Stewart, he's a nice guy, but he seems to be living in the same bubble as congress and sometimes the white house. (ahem the professional left) which MSNBC decided to shoot themselves in the same foot Obama did. Not sure how feasable it is to actually create a real left wing network. Why? Because the future of it is online such as Bill and Cenk.

This became evident with Iran's uprising. Which is why I decided to put my twitter avatar up here. A Green beagle. The real journalists aren't being paid, but they are risking their lives like any other journalist would. (Richard Engle (sp) is one and he's a bit nuts. He came within an inch of death and still went back.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. kick. Best rule yet.

[wellstone dem]

9. K R

[Poboy]

10. Your vote: +1

[bullwinkle428]

11. K&R!

[mzmolly]

12. So very well stated. Some of us said as much immediately after the rally, though most were not as

eloquent as Mr. Maher.

[eilen]

72. My son, the nascent socialist

pretty much said the same thing after the rally-- "This wasn't a real really, this was entertainment. It was like going to a concert."

The real rally was 10/2.

There were speakers who inspired you.
People were able to interact. They were not penned in or locked out. Free ingress and egress. There were lots of merchants with tshirts and foot. Not just "official" merch. There were tables upon tables that offered information to enlighten ralliers, petitions, voting information. Not so at the Restore Sanity party.

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. On a spectrum between right and wrong, all points between are wrong to varying degrees.

The truth doesn't always lie somewhere in the middle.

[Blue_In_AK]

14. I wanted to stand up and cheer.

[Rhiannon12866]

15. K&R. Wow. Incredibly well stated. n/t

[greenmutha]

16. +1

I actually applauded Bill Maher last night after watching this!

[walldude]

17. Yup good commentary.. even though I agree with Stewart

That pundits have ruined the news.

That said I can't wait till next week when all you fickle people throw Mahr and Olbermann back under the bus.

[ooglymoogly]

77. Wow...Obtuse much? nt

[Greybnk48]

18. I LOVE Jon and Stephan. I'm a member of the Colbert

Nation and I have my red bracelet. But I agree with Bill Maher 100% (and I don't like him all that much). The truth is hard to argue with.

[renate]

31. I think you and I are similar

I absolutely love them both but I think Bill Maher totally nailed it with this commentary.

I think the reason there were a few clips of Keith and even one of Alan Grayson (saying that the Republican health plan is for people to die quickly--it's true, but it's pretty dramatic) in one series of clips was that they were trying to show how people in the media use fear to keep their audiences. The vast preponderance of clips in that series were of Fox and CNN and they simply had to have a few from MSNBC and from liberal politicians, or they'd have been accused of being partisan, which was the direct opposite of what their rally was about. I don't think they were saying that MSNBC is as bad on the left as Fox is on the right. However, I think they should have addressed the difference between lies and the truth; they fell way short there, which is why I agree with Bill Maher even though my heart goes pitter-pat for Stephen in particular and even though I think he and Jon most definitely had their hearts in the right place by asking politicians and the media to dial it down a notch.

[iris27]

40. Agreed. I'm still a fan, but they were wrong on this. Just like Maher is wrong

on vaccinations and is often a sexist jerk. And just like they're all three wrong to make cheap shot jokes about obesity.

Doesn't mean I don't shout "Right on!" when they get it right.

[liberation]

53. Bingo...

... I still like Stewart more than I do Maher, personality wise, but credit where credit is earned... and criticism when it is due.

[Qutzupalotl]

19. That was awesome.

As much as I love Stewart, Maher's right on this.

[sabrina 1]

20. Very well said.

When he's on to something like this, he does it better than anyone.

:kick:

[Lucian]

21. Right on, Bill!

K&R

[proud patriot]

22. stated nicely

:-)

[Raine]

23. GOOD for Bill! nt

:applause:

[kentuck]

24. one of the best new rules Bill has even given.

I hope every Democrat in Congress got to see it. And every Republican.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

25. I have to disagree with Maher on this one, defend Jon

The media tends to overplay this narrative of false equivalencies, I get that, but if you were at the rally on Saturday, that perspective was most assuredly NOT the sentiment of the crowd. MANY of the more overtly political signs were clearly Anti-Beck and Anti-Fox. The more subtle political signs, in their seeming irrelevancy ("Don't Panic! But keep your towel handy just in case", was a reference to 'Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy'), advocated rational dialogue in the face of the soundbite culture and hyperbolic language wielded by the media.

I tried looking for where Jon Stewart/TDS condemns the "war criminal" thing. The only clip I could find was when they were highlighting CodePink infiltrating the Condi hearing with their bloody hands and "war criminal" signs. This would be totally in line with the Stewart's condemnation of the extremist TACTICS political groups and media personalities use to disseminate information. It's kind've disingenuous that Maher would point to that as an example of Stewart perpetuating the media's false equivalency narratives.

[no limit]

36. I saw the new rules last night when they came on and I agree with you.

Jon Stewart was not trying to say that both are the same, he was simply pointing out that both have their problems.

[MedicalAdmin]

75. Which is just like saying that they are the same

You don't look at the color of blood and say it's kinda blue.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

85. In the bigger context...

Stewart continues to rail against the the right-wing Fox Noise machine and Republicans everynight. Clearly, he and TSD staff does not think they are the same.

[no limit]

111. So by pointing out flaws on the left you automatically say they are the same as the right?

Wow, I guess that makes sense as long as you don't think about it in any way.

[liberation]

54. "extremist" does not mean what you think it does...

[EFerrari]

59. I'll always be grateful to Code Pink for confronting that malevolent thug.

That may well be the only punished she gets.

[MedicalAdmin]

76. When faced with a rabid dog.

The only thing to do is to out it down.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

82. I admired what they did

But it was still very dramatic, outside of the norm, ergo extreme. Sometimes one has to do those things for publicity or to draw attention to a cause -- I get that. But it's also dangerous because once they started discussing it on the media circuit, it became all about CodePink, their "extremist measures" and not what they were trying to say.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

87. Additionally, I'd liken CodePink's actions more to "theater"...

That's certainly how it was taken in the media. Not seriously.

[EFerrari]

102. You mistake theater for unimportant.

The biggest political battles in the history of the world have always been and always will be fought out in theater.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

107. Which is why I continue to be a Stewart/Colbert fan! n/t

[EFerrari]

100. That doesn't matter. People will remember the image of Rice

and those hands. That matters. That's not dangerous, that's brilliant.

[Poboy]

104. You are very correct.

[gtar100]

103. CodePink infiltrating the Condi hearing with bloody hands was activism at its best.

If you remember the atmosphere at the time, to call out any in the *ush administration as having blood on their hands took great courage. It spoke the message loud and clear. I will *not* denegrate that action by comparing it to tea baggers and their unsubstantiated antics.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

106. And the teabaggers on the right think of our antics in the same light. Unsubstantiated.

These stunts do not change minds. It only serves to alienate the moderates. My husband, who was leaning liberal at the time, (he's fully immeshed in my lefty ideals now ;)) was turned off and confused by the stunt. I had to explain it to him otherwise he would have continued having the wrong impression. We had a long argument about it and eventually I came to see his point -- even though for me it continued to be a triumphant "fuck you" to the Bush admin. Liberals, like conservatives, tend to live in little bubbles.

[gtar100]

114. Another false equivelancy. Substance of argument should matter.

Just because someone else doesn't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Think of it this way, if "liberals" stopped arguing back, what would happen? If "conservatives" stopped arguing back, what would happen? Maybe you want to think of it as opposite but equal, but it's not. An environmental "whacko" would force you to breath clean air and drink clean water. What would a teabagger force upon you?

[Poboy]

112. Jon held up Chris Wallace as a model of good journalism last week.

Jon is wading up to his ears in his own bullshit.

[whathehell]

27. GO Bill!

Gee..I think a couple of us were saying this a week ago to lots of consternation!

Guess you've got to be a "name":eyes:

[RainDog]

28. K&R n/t

[polichick]

29. It had to be said, and he did it perfectly. Though I had a lot of fun...

...at the rally, it really pissed me off to see how those video clips equated the left and right.

Loved that bit about one reporting the news and one close to playing with his poop. - LOL

[FourScore]

32. Perfect! n/t

[Solly Mack]

33. k/r

[Dr.Phool]

34. Excellent.

I missed the show last night. I'll catch a re-run later.

[coti]

35. That is an OUTSTANDING rant. nt

[scentopine]

37. Fucking perfect! I lost respect for Stewart with his claim that both sides are to blame -nt

[Denzil_DC]

38. K&R!

[lordsummerisle]

39. Is there video of this? n/t

[Inchworm]

44. In Political Videos

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=expand_topics&forum=385

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x522953

:hi:

[patrice]

41. Thank You, Bill! This has been bothering me about JS for quite a while!

[defendandprotect]

42. K&R -- and a kick -- !!

[defendandprotect]

43. One of the best jobs Bill Maher has ever done -- Jon Stewart should listen ...!!!

[Plucketeer]

45. Stewart & Colbert must've let their writers sit out the "rally".

What these two do, four nights a week, is nowhere NEAR the bogus crap they tried to express during their rally. That's why I think they must've left their writers have the weekend off. The acts they brought to that stage were alot more entertaining than Jon or Stewart.

[Douglas Carpenter]

46. kick and recommend!!

[snot]

47. Holyf*ckK&R'd!!!

[snot]

48. K&R'dholyf*ckFINALLY

[WCGreen]

49. I was going to keep the HBO package....

But $35 a month is just too much for me to pay for just Bill.

He has the balls that Jon use to have.

I'm glad I didn't go to DC just for that. It was kind of funny, kind of entertaining, kind of political.

Exactly what living in the middle in these dangerous times has become.

If you don't believe me, just ask yourself this, when do liberals strap on guns to go to a political rally?

[Stardust]

55. Bill's shows are free on iTunes.

[MedicalAdmin]

78. Audio only but I still love that.

I can relisten to the shows on my iPhone . It's wonderful.

[wisteria]

50. Wow, I agree with all of what he had to say. n/t

[pacalo]

51. Bill, you couldn't have said it better. I'm going to give this to my husband.

I couldn't come up with as good an answer when he questioned me about it; I was too floored at the time.

:loveya: Bill!

[democrank]

56. Recommended.

"Remember folks, those Southern sheriffs with the fire hoses and the German shepherds, they have a point too!"

[PatrynXX]

57. 200,000 people show up for 2 people.. over 200,000 people

sign a petition for one man to get back to work!. msnbc figure that out

[B Calm]

60. One reports facts, the other one is very close to playing with his poop.

That about sums it up!

[valerief]

65. Masterful line! nt

[BlueMTexpat]

61. Equating fact-based discourse and logic with lies, smears and

distortions is simply wrong.

Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert (and I do love them both still) were wrong to use such false equivalencies because their counterparts Limbaugh, Beck & Co use ONLY lies, smears and deliberate distortions in order to incite and inflame the political landscape - and to enrich themselves. They are laughing all the way to the bank. To equate Keith Olbermann with such lower than pondscum creatures without using a specific example of something that was anywhere near the equivalent of what these people consistently and deliberately do was also wrong.

We have not made progress throughout the years by playing nice with truth-challenged bullies. We have only made progress when we have stood our ground, faced them down, called them out for exactly what they are, and demonstrated that we can do better.

And yes, George W. Bush IS a war criminal, by any legal precedent that we ourselves have set. Jon & Stephen: did you miss the happenings at the Nuremberg trials, the precedents that we set there and the various Geneva conventions that the US has signed, if not having actually helped to inspire? Or is it that we only impose accountability on those we defeat - or those whom we perceive as "Other?"

[Poboy]

108. Good post. -nt

[xchrom]

62. recommend

[jonnyblitz]

63. K &R! nt

[valerief]

64. Fabulous indictment of the media! nt

[YOY]

66. Pile it deep but the majority of DUers still fucking get it!!!

n/t

[malaise]

67. Can't argue with this at all

Rec

[Poboy]

68. kick

[NJmaverick]

69. Good job Bill, I share your disdain for Jon Stewart's recent behavior

[TheUnspeakable]

71. k&r love it

[SemperEadem]

73. this was a thrilling moment to behold

such truth, delivered with precision humor. Excellent.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

74. New Rule: Maher got it right, err left. :)

:applause:

[The Uncola]

79. K&R

[ooglymoogly]

80. Bill Maher, Word up!.......Jon's rally for sanity; not so much;

A waste of huge effort by those of us who respect and support him; full of sound and fury; signifying nothing. Truth has no middle ground.

[dotymed]

81. Since both "parties" (how true) are corporate owned,

what are they gonna say? The TRUTH? ha....

[ooglymoogly]

97. DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blue dogs, Dino's, DLC'ers and pugs are the same. Democrats (though they are a rare breed these days) have principles.
Kieth Olbermann and Rachel et al are Democrats. Rahm, Lincoln, et al are not.

[YOY]

105. How are we going to get rid of them? We can't.

They own the party.

Sure they can get voted out but do you see an organized effort to inform the public of the difference?

I sure as hell don't and the corporate media won't allow it.

I see the blue dogs getting called "socialists" when they're basically republicans...and the yellow dogs getting the same label...without any kind of analysis or even a goddamn political science professor to say "what bullshit" of all the talking points.

[ooglymoogly]

109. Aye, there's the rub.

Half the creepy bluedog caucus got voted out this round. That will not make much difference as they voted with the pugs anyway; however the progressives will now have far more power to make their voices heard.

[DirkGently]

83. YES. The center isn't an *average* of RW insanity and everyone else. It's an actual PLACE

[emulatorloo]

84. Rec! n/t

[druidity33]

86. Bill doesn't do nuance...

nor does he appreciate it. I think people are making too much of the "false equivalencies" issue, b/c quite frankly i don't think JS was saying KO and "left wing media" are as bad as the Faux noise machine. But whatever gets folk riled up to defend progressives, i approve of. And Bill has some excellent points here. I just don't think they ought to be directed at JS, but at the media as a whole.

anyway, gets a K&R from me...

:)

disclaimer: i'll admit i'm suspicious of anyone who's an outspoken Libertarian...

[PerpetuallyDazed]

92. It's kind of like JS prophetized this might happen... ;)

Find one, small thing in the scheme of the larger context and discuss only THAT one, small thing for weeks while missing the entire point!

I've come to realize that DU, like the MSM (and a lot like Fox News), prefers to sometimes make up their own news rather than reporting on the facts.

KO, Ed, Grayson, were one example among many, many other pundits; the majority were clearly made-up of Fox Noise personalities and Republicans. I still don't grasp how they are perpetuating a false equivalency. The skit was obviously out to condemn the use of fear tactics/hyperbole in media. There was no mention as to the legitimacy of whatever the message was. (I have to wonder if JS undermines the intelligence of his audience?)

I can say almost definitively from my watching Fox the past few days that their reactions are 1) TDS/JS are a bunch of liberals who congregated in effort to outdo Glenn Beck or 2) Fox&Fiends downplayed it, or pretended to be clueless: "Oh, Jon Stewart.. Haha, funny guy."

[HughBeaumont]

89. ". . . there are no moderates on the other side."

NADA.

K & R.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

94. You might wanna go back and rewatch the rally...

The media presents that "all Republicans are like this" or "all Democrats are like that" because their world is all about reporting on politics (or making up what to report on--you pick).

Normal people in the normal world work together all the time with different ideologies. There ARE moderate Republicans, but you will probably not see these folks in congress or on t.v. :)

[Imajika]

90. Yup, this is exactly right...

I said as much after the rally, but at the time was considered some kind of heretic.

John Stewart brought a quarter million young people to DC on election weekend and basically left them with the message "can't we all just be nicer, after all, our side is just as extreme as theirs". I saw it as a big missed opportunity to at least point out who the insane people are.

[laughingliberal]

91. Go Bill! Yeah, Baby! K&R. nm

[Darth_Kitten]

93. K & R

:)

[Politicub]

95. I think of Stewart differently now. At least the leopard showed his spots.

I'm done throwing babies out with the bathwater, but I did learn about an important aspect of Stewart from the rally.

And shame on me for not thinking this before. He's an entertainer who is building an audience who complains and don't take action. Why should they? Both sides are insane according to him. There is no right or wrong, only noise. The middle is the place to be, letting each other zipper into traffic. Don't rock the boat.

Not saying that everyone who likes Stewart subscribes to this view -- I don't and the majority of people on DU don't -- but in this day and age, there are serious issues to address. Anti-gay bullying is close to my heart, and Olberman is a forceful voice against it. I respect him. Stewart's satire can draw positive attention to show how bigoted the other side is, but don't make voices on the left somehow equivalent to people like Beck.

I appreciate how he draws attention to issues. I'm grateful for that and I'll watch the Daily Show. But now with eyes opened instead of believing that Stewart is someone who wants to rock the boat.

Bill Maher is an entertainer, and awesome one. And I love how I know where he stands and how he doesn't pull punches.

[ooglymoogly]

98. +1 nt

[AnArmyVeteran]

96. Maher said it superbly!

[judesedit]

99. Good job, Bill. Anyone who thinks this election is in their favor is out of their minds, unless, of

course, they own a corporation or are one of the 2% wealthiest Americans. Shame on all reasonable, sane persons who did not vote. It may prove to be the biggest mistake of their lifetime.

[Poboy]

101. .

[Bucky]

113. But, but, but Jon Stewart said by showing up we helped restore his sanity!

So it can't have been for nothing. Jon is sane again... that's gotta count for something.

[Poboy]

115. Jon is up to his knees in his own bullshit. -nt