Does either party really understand the Anger out in our Country?

[OHdem10]

What is really going on is frustration, some anxiety,
and some disgust all wrapped up and exploding espisodicly,
and this is going to continue to swirl, and boil over
for the next few years.

As a Liberal Richard Viguerie is not exactly where I would
expect to find answers. Mr. Viguerie is a stalwart Conservative
and buidler in the Republican Party.


Recently,as a guest on MSNBC Viguerie nailed it: The Working
Class in this country feels they have been screwed by Government
Banksters, Business, Academia, The Media. This anger is going
to go on for some years. In other words no one is channeling
it.

IM0, The Tea Party Movement is not exactly where the anger is.
Having watched very closely , the Tea Party has capitalized
on it for the moment. When the people realize once again they
have snookered, they will be madder than hell.

There is no way you can have people going to the polls and
voting for someone they never heard of just because they have
been told to be mad at this particular group(Dems).
I must say the Teabaggers like President Bush'd former Budget Director
Teabaggers like the former Senator Coates and now Teabagger Senator
Coates. Just having fun hear.

We know the American People are not as conservative as that crowd.

My main point is the Fury is not over. Both Parties should
recognize the Middle Working Class has been screwed and no
one has even talked to them yet.

I admire the ability of Libertarians to jump on Board . Shrewed
Political Move. When we get to specifics, this should be
very interesting.

The next 2 years should be interesting. Democrats what are
you going to do????

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Short answer

NO.

They will not get it until those second amendment remedies become more common... I am afraid.

What Vigerie is missing, or knows but will not mention... is that we are at the end of Empire... and it will be messy.

Oh and on edit BOTH party leaderships are tied to keeping that Empire going.

[Greyhound]

2. They would gladly burn the world before sharing power. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Here is what I see coming

the end of the empire is coming. I said before the election by 2020. The process, with Republicans, especially if Rand Paul decides to pull that stunt with the debt limit, perhaps before 2012.

Imperial collapse is always sudden... at least to those not paying attention or inside a bubble.

When that happens this could go two ways... USSR... we are too dispararte of a nation anyway and a continental empire... or a hot civil war.

At the very least the collapse will come with a doldrums in the economy we have not seen since 1929, especially if Rand Paul pulls the stunt I expect him to pull. No, 2008 was not a depression, but lord knows we may face one now.

On the bright side, if the country does break apart... I live in a more progressive area of the country. I expect some regions to go back to the 17th century and I fear for the more progressive residents.

Go ahead you can call me Cassandra. I know I deserve it.

[texastoast]

9. +1

The end of the empire approaches. But I doubt we will see the Rapture.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. For a few THAT is the rapture

:evilgrin:

[Greyhound]

24. Cassandra was right, too. Pretending that everything will be fine is what children do

when faced with a big scary problem, and that's just how too many are reacting to this downfall.

Keep telling the truth and save as many as you can, that's all any of us can do.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. The repukes have certainly been able to cash in on it to a greater extent than the Dems.....

They would appear to have some sort of ability to tune into it....the Dems, not so much.
Messaging is the secret. The repuke strategists are chess players. Dems are playing checkers.

George Lakoff has been ignored much to the dismay and peril of the Democrats.

Right now, it would appear that if things get better in the next two years, the repukes will take..and possibly get, all the credit.

If things stay in the crapper, Obama and the Dems will get the blame.

Of that, the repukes will make sure...

[Better Today]

4. They are stirring up party warfare in hopes that we are all too stupid to

recognize that the real warfare that needs to occur is class warfare, wherein warfare doesn't necessarily mean violence. There are many ways these days that can be utilized to take down entities, the least of which appears to be voting, because voting only replaces agents of the rich and corporations with more of the same, it doesn't take down the entities themselves. Unfortunately until we prove ourselves not this stupid, we will continue to suffer at the hands of our masters.

[Bonhomme Richard]

8. +1...When the realize who the real enemy is. The Uber Rich n/t

[ProudDad]

10. "If voting could change anything, they'd make it illegal..."

What the people need is to pull their minds out of the sand -- to reject the myth that constant industrial growth, the global economy and capitalism are "the only way to do things"...

We need to secede from the dominant (dominator) paradigm, personally and in our communities and work toward reLOCALizing our economies and communities for survival in this Long Emergency...

Voting in Federal and State elections will NOT do that. We must do it in each of our individual communities and hope the capitalist masters don't render the Earth uninhabitable for their short-term gain before we reach critical mass...!

[ProudDad]

6. Scratch anger and you'll find fear

The general public is afraid, very afraid...

And they should be...

The myth of "prosperity" was based on a brief 200 year heroin fix of cheap fossil fuel. The supply of that drug is waning for two main reasons; we're running out (past Peak Oil - reaching limits of other fossil energies) and the side-effects of the drug - Catastrophic Global Climate Destabilization...

This heroin rush coupled with the inequalities fostered by capitalism have allowed humans to overshoot the carrying capacity of the Earth, that is, the number of humans who can be sustained on Earth at a reasonable standard of living without degrading the natural environment we need to survive. Best estimates have it that we've overshot by about 5 billion humans.

So the USAmerican citizenry, being the major beneficiaries of global inequality for the last 70+ years, are dimly perceiving that the carnival ride of "prosperity" is ending for good.

Demagogues and corporate-funded "well meaning" idiots like Obama refuse to recognize the reality of life on Earth in the early 2000s, are trying to sell the old we'll "grow our way out of this" line of bullshit when by all indications there's not enough left on Earth to exploit, is insane...

And the people perceive this truth as well...

And they are afraid...

Because all of those in power, with any capability to change direction, cannot articulate a positive, viable alternative but instead are pushing more of the same that got us here...

The Democrats aren't going to do ANYTHING useful. Nor are the republicans. Neither right-wing of the Big Business Corporate Party are capable of perceiving what needs to be done...

[CrispyQ]

26. Both of your posts are spot on.

:thumbsup:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. NO. but the dems overestimate the intelligence of the average person.

[Better Today]

12. Y'know, I so so so much wish that were true. It just isn't in the realities I see every day.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. it is. we just got beaten by the republicans who all but promised to cut programs that help the poor

and raise taxes on the rich. the average person, making average salary voted to help the wealthy in this country. thats stupidity. and we dont address it in any real way.

[Better Today]

18. My bad, I misread you original post. I agree wholeheartedly.

Please accept my apologies. We are in complete agreement, Dems do overestimate the intelligence (or perhaps a better term, "independent curiosity") of the average citizen.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. people want simple answers and democrats nuance everything

i do it myself, its ok in an academic, its really self-defeating in politics

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. It is at this level

as individuals people are not dumb.

The electorate is dumber than a box of rocks.

It is called group dynamics. The Republicans figured out that you use fear, they respond. We haven't

[Better Today]

19. My bad, I totally misread the post. My bad.

[newspeak]

11. well, yes

they understand the anger-some just refuse to address it or they use it for their own goals, like the repugs did. Now everyone with any memory knows that * was very active in causing this situation. If you ever heard his very public statements, you'd know that he was always for deregulation and allowing the corporations to police themselves, which includes wall street. Now most people, who are not in denial, know that we were lied into Iraq and I'd bet Cheney's little secret energy meeting was one of the reasons. The oil piggies already had Iraq's nationalized oil wells already divided up. Too bad, that our soldiers and hard earned money went to forward corporate interest. And, that * privatized part of the military, giving our soldiers shoddy services to the point of killing and poisoning some. Now, FDR passed a bill against war profiteering, but these assaults have been nothing but war profiteering, at the highest order. * has one of worst job creation records in eight years and increased the deficit by approximately 89%. That does not include the money from the pentagon, the rummy confessed on 9/10/01, was unaccounted for (I believe it was 1.2 trillion).

Now these so-called angry teabaggers seemed to be just fine to re-elect someone like little boots even after he was caught illegal wiretapping before 9/11, suspended habeas corpus, lied us into war and tortured. That does not include the intention after the selection 2000 to totally shut out the dems (Chaffee confessed to that publicly). See, the repugs, before cheney and * were even sworn in, were brought together and informed that there would be no dealing with the democrats, all shots would be from the unelected administration. What's really a shame is that the teabaggers either believe the most outrageous BS or they are believers in full corporate power. I say that because it is some wealthy and corporations, like health insurance industry, that have funded these people. It is not for the teabagger's interest, it is for big businesses own greedy agenda.

Their anger has been constructively directed-a "new" republican strategy to get their people elected after such a devastating economic downturn. If * would have convinced people to privatize social security, he would have flooded wall street with more loot-it would be to our detriment, but deregulated wall street would have had even more money to loot and * wouldn't have had to go and basically ask for a bailout since he screwed up. So, I don't understand when teabaggers' are shouting "I want my country back." I'd say that eight fekkin years of a nightmare was more than enough and has probably done this country irreparable harm.

[elocs]

13. The trouble is that the American People are not as Liberal as this crowd here either.

Ironic that both sides hold their views up to a mirror and believe they see America. It's not as simple as that.

[Better Today]

22. I think that's only because liberal or progressive are not allowed to be defined

as much as demonized. When I discuss things with people from a non-political POV, I find we are usually in agreement as to helping the poor, the injustices favoring the rich, the discouraging aspects of living in a right-to-work state, all the things that effect our personal economies (ie class).


However when we introduce politics, the conversation gets really weird. I see dirt poor people swear allegiance to a party that openly wants to ruin them. It's bizarre beyond reason. I have a neighbor who is a teacher, they've had to declare bankruptcy twice already, lost their house, and still can barely make ends meet with his and her medical conditions, and yet they suggest that the reason they don't want to see the tax cuts for anyone to expire is because a cousin, who they seem to both hate and want to be her, is a romance novelist who makes over $250K annually and it would hurt her. ?????!!!!!!!

I have to admit, I don't know how to correct this anomaly, but it does indicate to me that we need to as a nation, reject party affiliation and instead focus on class affiliation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Class is a dirty word

and propaganda works

As long as your neighbor (and even DU'ers) believe that 97% of the Ameircan people are middle class... it will impossible to change this.

As I told somebody here.

If I make 250K a year, I am UPPER CLASS... really UPPER CLASS. Not yet in the upper crust of that, but you get it.

If I make 25K a year, I am working class.

Yet, if you ask average Americans both are middle class.

It starts at that level, and they have done a very good job in the propaganda department to make any talk of class anathema to the american creed.

[Better Today]

28. Well analyzed.

[elocs]

31. It's because Liberals/Progressives allow the right to define them

and to define the terms of the debate which always places the left on the defensive. The right also seems to be far superior in marketing their message, their point of view. Democrats seem to forget that perception is everything to Americans and that right or wrong what Americans perceive to be the truth is more important to them than what actually is the truth.

[ProudDad]

14. This problem is MUCH bigger than party politics...

In fact, both right-wings of the Corporate War Party are on the same page as far as the destruction of Earth as a friendly environment for her Creatures is concerned...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9499658#9499745

[Generic Brad]

21. We need a populist politician on the national stage who stands up for the little guy

People are looking for a fighter who is perceived as refusing to compromise or to back down in the interests of the average citizen. Republicans understand that and have tapped into that energy with some success. Our Democratic leaders have not figured out how to unleash and then harness that power.

[handmade34]

23. the people in power live in a bubble

the reason for the accumulation of wealth is to buffer oneself from the harsh realities of life... people are afraid and angry, but not angry enough yet

[bigtree]

25. most of the anger comes from belief in a bullshit narrative

It starts by asserting Pres. Obama wasn't born in the country, it continues that he's a Muslim, and it levels out with a good dose of denial that the majority of the country once supported the cretins and fascists into power.

I understand the anger. It's misdirected, mostly, at our President and party. I refuse to play into most of it because the many of the targets are a fabrication.

[walldude]

29. That's the anger on the right..

What about the anger on the left? The extension of the Patriot Act, the amping up of the Afghan war, the Drone Attacks, the CIA Death Squad, the bailouts, the capitulation to Republicans, Gay Rights? Are you saying these are bullshit narratives?

[bigtree]

30. I don't equate that 'anger' the same as I do the FOX-generated fauz outrage

Sure, there are folks in our party who are frustrated by the lack of support and outright hostility from the WH or our Democratic leadership toward the issues and concerns that affect them most. But, I'm not seeing that anger at the specifics you listed reflected at the polls - not in exit results or any straight polling. Most of the 'anger' that's been registered and related to the election was economic and about mostly contrived perceptions of the administration and Congress.

Where have you seen anger at those specifics registered? How are you measuring it?