I'm DONE with hearing about the Stewart/Colbert Rally for Sanity perpetuating false equivalencies!!

[PerpetuallyDazed]

Were you there?? Was that the message YOU took away? Here's what I got out of it: when we get lost in the hyperbole and soundbite culture promoted by our media personalities, we start seeing our opponents as our enemies and not as people we HAVE to work with in order to GET SHIT DONE. I saw lots of signs expressing anti-Glenn Beck, Fox News, and anti-teabagger sentiment; the crowd was clearly liberal, and clearly had an agenda AGAINST Fox, and against irrational rhetoric.

I did not see Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, other "lefty pundits" that I admire as necessarily being held diametrically opposed to the messages of the Fox News types. If you did, I'd recommend going back and re-watching the entire rally. Stewart/Colbert's focus all along was on the TACTIC, OR THE STYLE these pundits choose to disseminate information--not necessarily on the legitimacy of their MESSAGES. Seriously, now?! Am I the only one who gets this??

[Zephie]

1. You've been unrecc'd to pieces. But K&R, I don't agree with the outrage either

:pals:

[EFerrari]

2. I get it and I disgree with you and with Stewart. He's mucking around

with false equivalences of style when the media in this country is owned by the oligarchy. What a big fat waste of time.

[jpgray]

3. As in the elections, people see their own prejudices reflected back at them

The sum and whole of the rally was to condemn the spreading of mutual distrust to the point that opponents cannot see one another as human. I'm not talking about the leaders and pundits which spread the distrust, but the people who are abused by them. Common cause is what we need, and everyone who is being harmed by the liars in the establishment ought to be treated with pity and humanity. To my mind, that's what the rally was about. That the belligerents on the left are a damn sight better than those on the right is a given, and not challenged at all by the rally.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. I got it just fine.

A shallow, predictable after-school special for third-way dopes tastelessly held three days before we were going to get crushed in an election.

It was awesome!

Almost as cool as when Kevin Kline got his buddy who works for H&R Block to fix the federal budget in that movie DAVE.

Pablum that distracts people from the fact that the indecorous fighting sending them to the fainting couch is between an immoral and wrong view and a more-or-less right view.

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. So you think Fox and MSNBC are cut out of the same cloth?

Really?

Glenn Beck = Keith Olbermann? Sean Hannity = Rachel Maddow?

K&U for a reality check.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

13. Are you being purposefully obtuse...?

I did not say that. I thought I was being pretty clear...

"It's the tactics, not the message."

[EFerrari]

14. Maybe we need our Breitbart of the left to demonstrate your point.

Oh, wait. We don't have one.

[Poboy]

18. Why was Jon Stewart up Chris Wallace's ass?

Jon on thursday held up Chris Wallace of fox news as the model of journalism.

Are you fucking kidding me? Jon is knee deep in his own hypocritical bullshit.

[Ruby the Liberal]

20. Let me rephrase for the linguistically challenged in the room. So you think their tactics/approach

to the FACTS are equal, just from different POVs?

[PerpetuallyDazed]

26. Are we talking about the same Fox News?

The same organization that outright lies, exaggerates, manipulates and CREATES the news? And yes, Keith Olbermann himself has said he's gone overboard before with the hyperbole. They all do it at some point, but maybe KO does it LESS often than Bill O'Reilly, perhaps. On that point I will agree with you.

[Poboy]

30. Why was Jon Stewart up Chris Wallace's ass?

Jon on thursday held up Chris Wallace of fox news as the model of journalism.

Are you fucking kidding me? Jon is knee deep in his own hypocritical bullshit.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

35. You'll have to show me what you're talking about. n/t

[Poboy]

38. Just go to the comedy channel and see for yourself.

Or follow this link to a DU discussion about it-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9485904

[Ruby the Liberal]

41. We may be talking past one another...

I am saying that Fox Noise is off the charts and MSNBC is trying to balance their nonsense with facts - albeit heatedly at times (called for, IMO, as the nonsense from Faux is off the reservation more times than not).

I am reading you saying that both sides are equally responsible for the ignorance/rhetoric abounding in the US today.

Please correct me where I am misunderstanding your POV.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

45. I'm sorry, I haven't been clear

I don't think that "both sides" do it the SAME AMOUNT -- I recognize and agree with you that Fox News is the proponent of a lot of this hyperbolic/soundbite culture and MSNBC has arose in effort to combat it. So perhaps Fox is more responsible for spreading it than MSNBC.

I think the TDS team got that right -- there were only one or two clips of KO among the sea of righty pundits in that segment.

My beef is that the rally was more than spreading this false equivalency (as some are perceiving it) and it's frustrating I'm not able to combat this meme spreading the 'net.

[Ruby the Liberal]

49. No question - and I agree that the 'racist/socialist' meme should be reserved for those who

have earned the titles, but the false equivalency lost me completely.

If no one stands up to the lies spewed (from either side), they eventually become 'facts'. In a low-information voting public, that is more dangerous than the name calling.

[Cid_B]

42. Honestly?

I think the Olbermann and Maddow aspire to be the equivalent of those folks but only because of how effectively they put out their views. They;re not there yet though...

[Ruby the Liberal]

43. You equivalate KO/RM pointing out facts to Faux Nooze's make-it-up-as-you-go-along 'reporting'?

Seriously?

[Cid_B]

47. Seriously...

Just because I have my own viewpoints, I don't forget that EVERYONE has an agenda.

This is just laughable to me because the other side says the EXACT same thing.

"They aren't the same! Our side tells the truth and those dirty leftists just make shit up"

Please.. they all lie, they all twist, they all selectively ignore facts that don't conform to how they want things to be.

[DirkGently]

55. Do tell. What's the Keith / Rachel equivalent of

- Beck musing about "FEMA internment camps" Communist symbology in public buildings? Obama's "hatred for white people."

- Fox "reporting" on the "New Black Panthers" On ACORN. On Obama's "Muslim Madrassa."

- Sharron Angle stating, as a fact that Sharia Law has been instituted in Detroit, because she "read it somewhere."

- Michele Bachmann, a sitting member of Congress, suggesting that the U.S. Census just might be a means of rounding up conservatives for internment camps, and telling Chris Matthews that the press ought to investigate "anti-Americanism" in Congress.

Where are the "Lefties" touting Bizarro-world nonsense like this. And no fair digging into the far reaches of the Internet. These conservatives are mainstream "news" commentators, serious candidates for political office, and members of the Federal Government.

Where is the left equivalent of Congressman Steve King, expressing solidarity with the terrorist who flew his plane into an IRS building, killing a federal employee? When he wasn't snarking about "birth certificates we haven't seen."

Where is the rhetoric on the left that's the equal of Chuck Grassley touting Health Care Reform "Death Panels?"

How is anything from the left the "EXACT same thing?"

There is a qualitative difference, and it not only matters, it's the ONLY thing that matters. Otherwise, the result is nihilism. There are no facts, just competing teams screaming for attention, in which case the logical choice is just to believe whatever you want with no regard for the truth.

Which is what the rightwing wants. That's why, in their world, global warming is a hoax. Because if "everyone has an agenda," is the end of the analysis, you can simply discard any information that doesn't suit you politically. In this world, you may as well teach Genesis instead of Biology class, because evolution is just a "theory" of a lot of atheist scientists with "agendas."

The truth matters. Everyone may have a "bias." That's not the same as lying. And recognizing that difference is the most important thing we can possibly do.

[Better Believe It]

6. So am I .... even if it's absolutely true!

Are you the only one who gets it?

No, you are not.

Two other people agree with you.

Their names are Stewart and Colbert.

:)

[barbtries]

7. i was there

and that was not the message i took away. the message i took away was a wonderfully heartening one, that this country is actually chock full of people who care and who appreciate the necessity of holding an actual dialogue.

so many people, so much positive energy. i haven't paid much attention to the naysayers because i don't want to lose the feeling. yes, i was there. and i actually got to see and hear it all, because i watched it on c-span after i got home to raleigh nc! :)

just ordered my t-shirt tonight.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

10. Yes, the energy was palpable!

It's helping me get through the congressional upsets... "these are hard times, not end times" :)

[barbtries]

8. it looks as if

the people disagreeing with you weren't there. none of them answered that particular question yet.

[EFerrari]

11. How would being there change the message?

The whole thing was filmed. It's not like the content of the rally is a secret.

It's nice that you had a good experience. That can be valuable. But it doesn't change how Stewart framed it.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

15. The context...

The signs, the energy, the people. These weren't teabaggers; these folks were smart, they "get it" -- when the discourse is dumbed down and raked through the mud, the issues become irrelevant and the insignificant parts are what make the soundbites.

That's pretty much how it's going down on DU: suddenly, the rally has become about slamming Keith Olbermann when it really wasn't about him in the first place.

[EFerrari]

19. Maybe there are people here who do make it about Keith.

And to the extent that he belongs to the endangered segment of liberal voices trying to work in a media owned by right wing wackjob corporatists, those people are 200% right.

Stewart talks as if the playing field is level in the first place and that's not reality.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

21. That's not the impression I get from watching TDS...

His ire is almost overwhelmingly aimed the Fox News machine and Republicans. This is why no one likes him over there--even self-professed "centrist" (and probably least insane) pundit Bill O'Reilly can't stand him.

[EFerrari]

23. That is how he framed the rally. And Bill O'Reilly loves going on TDS.

It's theater.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

28. "It's theater"?

So, you're saying that what Jon Stewart does everynight -- exposing the hypocrisy and ridiculousness of the right-wing and their media outlets -- is all theater?

[EFerrari]

33. Yes, he does expose hypocrisy and ridiculousness and yes, it is theater.

That's why he has a show and isn't sitting in a bar doing color for the teevee show on the monitor.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

39. Well, I think it serves a bigger purpose than strictly entertainment

I think Stewart / TDS have done a lot for the liberal left by continuing to speak out against the media moguls on the right. To not acknowledge their influence on the electorate would be naive.

[EFerrari]

44. Stewart pretty much erases his own work when he speaks as if

the right and the left have equal platforms. *That* is naive or worse.

[shireen]

9. K&R. nt

[polichick]

12. I was there and when I saw how those video clips equated the left & right...

I was pissed - Bill Maher put it perfectly this week.

[handmade34]

16. I was there

I loved the crowd and I realize that Jon Stewart and Stephan Colbert are merely comedians with TV shows... but they are intelligent men and have elevated themselves to a bit higher platform. I do believe there is hyperbole coming from everyone these days (even on DU) and there was a legitimate message coming fromm the duo... BUT, there is a rhetoric coming from Jon Stewart that aludes to an equivalency between Fox/MSNBC that is decidedly false.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. No you are not alone

it was a NUANCED message... that many here cannot comprehend. We, as a nation, don't do nuance.

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. Yes, indeed - a nuanced message asking America to have a dialogue that includes nuance.

A sort of meta-nuance. Hoffsteadter would love it!

I thought the message of the rally was fantastic - stop yelling soundbites at each other, starting having some real dialogue, stop framing all arguments in terms of fear and that everything has only life or absolute annihilation as options...

Great rally, great message.

Aimed more at the right, IMO, but that could be my own bias since it's mostly the right (esp. the teabaggers) that speak in such extreme language ("Obama WANTS to destroy America!!!!!!!!!!!" versus saying "I think Obama's policies are going to hurt our country, and here's why I think that", and so on).

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. And sadly we will need to sue the fear tactics

if we are gonna go anywhere with the electorate. That is something that I wish we didn't have to, but such is life.

[Rabrrrrrr]

31. And that is the unfortunate truth - the fuckers have the media and are outshouting us everywhere.

And it pisses me off.

Especially when the fuckers with the bullhorns use those bullhorns to blather on and on about how only the other side is allowed to have the bullhorns.

[TheKentuckian]

25. I get it and don't give a fuck because we have far too few voices to be handwringing about tone and

tenor.

We are getting flat out drilled and we have comfortable angels and "sensible centrists" telling us to get kinder, gentler, and turn the volume way down.

Namby pambys won't be happy till the Reich wing noise machine is once again all there is.

Want different styles of voices then ADD them but the ones we have are valuable and do not need to change a thing to satisfy the latte/peace at all cost/"sensible centrist" crowds.

What we need is to stop being white flag waiving chumps and fight tooth and nail for what we believe against all comers until we win or are dust.

[EFerrari]

27. I nominate Jon Stewart MIddle Class Moralist of the Year.

He has no clue what real people are up against. And being nice is not a solution when the other guy is trying to strangle you.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

32. I think I saw this same quote on a rally sign!

...being ironic, of course ;)

[EFerrari]

34. No, what you saw was "I'm going for sushi. Who's with me?"

Which is hilarious unless you're having trouble scraping a meal together.

[CTyankee]

36. Well, at this point, having lost so many teeth and nails, I am just about near dust.

Oh well, maybe I could get a nice T shirt from the rally somewhere. Then I'd feel so "good" about being right...

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Agree but I do not blame Jon

I blame the party. Instead of reptilian brain frames they do nuance. If anything the rally's message going whoosh should prove it. We do fear, we don't do nuance.

[TheKentuckian]

52. Right on

Well except the whoosh aspect because I believe the argument is inherently toxic in the current environment.

There is just no life in that soil for us, not right now. I love Jon but for liberals it is suicide to even burn a second of daylight.

I blame leadership and I mean over a number of years but Jon is to smart and media savvy to go down such a path. It is suicide.

[H2O Man]

29. oh

yep

[laylah]

37. I gave this an UNrec...

The rally gave people impetus, hope, and a purpose! That is SO much more than others give the actually, WE the people!

Jenn

[cynatnite]

40. So, if we weren't there that means we can't disagree with how you saw it?

Part of what I took from the rally were the false equivalencies. It certainly felt like that's what Jon was doing. He took the righteous anger the left has had and equated it to the outright racism and threats of violence of the right wing. I love Jon Stewart, but I believe he was wrong on this.

What I did agree with him on is the inability that both sides have in talking to each other. Then again, when you have a right wing group whose main objective is an Obama failure which equals bad for the US...then how can anything get done? Even now all the RW has is no compromise and the primary objective of making Obama a one term president. Not much will get done when this is the opposition you're faced with.

I'll leave you with Kid Rock and Sheryl Crow's lyrics about the excuses of a do-nothing majority of Americans...

I hear screaming on the left, yelling on the right,
I’m sitting in the middle trying to live my life.
Because I can’t stop the war, shelter homeless, feed the poor.
I can’t walk on water, can’t save your sons and daughters.
I can’t change the world and make things better.
But the least that I can do… is care.

****

Maybe this is a good example of why the US is in lousy shape. Nobody thinks they can do anything to make a difference.

[Desertrose]

46. K&R...you make some good points! n/t

[deacon]

48. Yes. The point was in his sum, 'if everyone is screaming nobody is going to hear you' and

it was reinforced by what he said on Larry King, 'we need analysts not pundits.' Those that take issues seriously and deconstruct issues to get to the truth.

Also, included in that was not to throw the words like "racist" and "hitler" and others around recklessly.

[EFerrari]

50. "if everyone is screaming nobody is going to hear you" is not analysis

but punditry, and spoken into a sound system, no less.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

53. I don't believe JS would claim to be a analyst...

I think you're purposefully missing the point.

[EFerrari]

58. No, I'm "purposely" applying his own criteria to his performance.n/t

[DirkGently]

54. Why can't you appreciate the rally AND consider the critique? It's not either / or.

[LostInAnomie]

56. It's too late. Too many people that either didn't watch the rally or were too stupid to get it...

... have been told that Jon was pushing false equivalency. They then repeated it a few hundred times and it became a "fact".

[Hamlette]

57. bravo. I wasn't there but watched it and agree with you. I'm shocked at the way it is interpreted

sheesh, Jon and Colbert were heroes here not long ago, then rumor spreads and comments get taken out of context and this thread ends up with more unrecs than recs.

Calm the fuck down and carry on ppl.

[AndrewP]

59. I'm DONE with caring about it either way

We have too much to worry about with No Chin and the Orange Boner to engage in a circular firing squad.