We Can Start Our 2012 Campaign By Having REAL Primaries, Not Coronations

[Dinger]

Think about it. You say "It costs money to have "long, drawn-out" primaries. It's cheaper and easier to have some token challengers, and back one "solid" candidate. No muss, no fuss, just one candidate to focus on, right? It'll save time too, right? Well fuck that, I want a choice, a real choice, every election, and repukes by the way are not an option for me. Hallelujah and holy shit. Amen.


Edited to add . . . Something like a 50-state strategy.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. If you're not going to finance this dream, someone else will...

and you won't like who it is.

Aside from your "choices" being limited by whose checkbook is working, primarying Obama will simply damage him further and repeat (insert obvious election here).

[oldtime dfl_er]

9. I want a 50 state strategy...

... a 50-state scorched earth one. Paging Doctor Dean!!!

[prolesunited]

10. And then you have a repeat of Carter-Kennedy

and a Republican is in office.

[AzNick]

7. Exactly. nt

[Ken Burch]

8. Doesn't have to be that way. Rules of engagement could be worked out

to make sure the contest remained civil.

And there's nobody out there who's likely to inspire the "blood feud" feeling that the Carter/Kennedy matchup brought to the surface.

If we can keep it based on the issues(and possibly use it as a way to make the administration simply shift ground and tone)it could work out for the best.

[jaxx]

21. That is called manipulation .

And like most things manipulated, you lose control and the endgame shows you lost before you started.

[apocalypsehow]

11. What was wrong with the way the 2008 Democratic Primary turned out?

:shrug:

I say nothing - it went very well, especially the winner. Who went on to win the White House.

What say you?

[DCKit]

14. Dinger's looking at the broader picture - House and Senate + Presidency.

I can't disagree, and the defeat of so many Blue Dog Dinos has opened the field for progressive candidates.

We didn't lose this election.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. How so? Have the Blue Dogs been defeated by...

progressive Republicans?

If a Blue Dog can't win in a red district, why would a progressive Democrat have a better chance?

[JackRiddler]

12. By actually offering something to vote for that's different from the other guy.

And proudly SELLING it.

These outcomes are not predetermined.

[TheWraith]

25. Bullshit.

A right-wing district doesn't elect a Dennis Kucinich. We just watched what happens to a loud liberal in a conservative district in the form of Alan Greyson. I encourage everybody to read Lawrence O'Donnell's great piece on this subject: it basically points out that there's no contradiction between being far left and backing Blue Dogs, because that's the way you win conservative districts.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[apocalypsehow]

15. So, you're Dinger's Press Secretary? Cool! - I wish I had me one of those. n/t.

[DCKit]

19. You heard it here Dinger. PM me for the address for check delivery. n/t

[Dinger]

1. OK, Cool

:smoke:

[apocalypsehow]

22. ...

On edit: OP did reply, I just didn't see it till now; unnecessary snark on my part excised from this reply.

[JI7]

16. i guess we lost in 2008 then when we won congress because of all those blue dogs

in the red areas.

[DCKit]

2. To what end? We got diddly from the House and even less from the Senate.

The Blue Dogs are the enemy within. Those seats have now been cleared for 2012 challengers.

It's a win in my book.

[JI7]

5. those are mostly conservative areas

[TheWraith]

26. We got diddly from the House?

I guess I hallucinated all those bills like Lily Ledbetter, the healthcare bill, cap and trade, etcetera.

[DCKit]

29. You are right, and I am wrong.

Given that the Senate held up some 450 bills the House passed, I'm just being stupid.

Still, I have real issues with the Blue Dogs. They may put the brakes on the corporations and banksters who would take it all RIGHT NOW, but they've given more rights to corporations than people.

[Dinger]

18. I Don't Really Have A Problem With The 2008 Primary

And regardless of what some here think, I am glad it turned out like it did. mccane was not an option. It just seems like there weren't many "barn-burning" primary races. I guess a real test for me, would be to ask myself if I'd have wanted Feingold or Kagen (my congressman) to be primaried. I have asked myself that. Still not sure what I think. Guess I have to think about it. Shit, it's late and I'm tired. Maybe this is more perception than reality. Still, I have to think about primaries for Dems.

P.S. Feingold's loss really hurt. We're stuck with the sick basturd rj* for 6 fucking years, shit.

P.S. (again) this thread was not meant to stir up shit. I was sort of wondering what DUers thought. Maybe I should have done a poll instead. Maybe i should just go to bed.

[cynatnite]

13. It's a given that President Obama will be the Democratic nominee. n/t

[gkhouston]

17. No, it isn't. It's merely highly likely. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

3. Unless he's caught with the proverbial "dead girl or a live boy"

it's a given.

[BzaDem]

20. Long primaries can be good in open-seat Presidential elections. They generally ensure Republicans

win though when a President is running for re-election.

[Ken Burch]

24. In the last two incidences in which primary challenges to incumbents occurred

(1968 and 1980)the incumbents were in severe political trouble even before the challenges, and we can't assume they'd have been re-elected(especially in the instance of 1968, since it's likely that half the Democratic party or more(in terms of the rank-and-file) would not have been able to tolerate the renomination of Lyndon Johnson on a "keep the war going" platform. The main reason we lost that year(other, of course, than the assassination of Robert Kennedy)was Johnson's insistence on making the party nominate HIS chosen successor on his chosen Vietnam plank. The only reason Humphrey was able to make that race close was that he made a VERY slight distinction between LBJ's Vietnam position and his own in the fall campaign(increasing his support from 30% in the late September polls to 43% and a dead heat with Nixon in the popular vote at the end). If Johnson had just accepted that he nad NO RIGHT to try to make the party obey him after he'd been rejected in the primaries, Democrats would have held the White House that year.

And the 1980 result was, as much as anything else, the consequence of the choking personal hatred Carter and Edward Kennedy felt for each other. This is what led Carter to fight a surpassingly ugly campaign against Teddy(arranging for crowds to line Teddy's motorcade route in Chicago shouting "murderer, murderer!", for example, and that in a city where nobody had hassled Teddy about Chappaquiddick for a decade and when it was completely inappropriate to bring it up in the campaign)probably what also led Kennedy to stay in the race when he was clearly beaten, and the infamous "non-handshake" at the Convention.

Neither of those dynamics are likely to repeat this time.

[Pirate Smile]

23. and then we could end it by losing the General Election and alienating the most loyal part of the

base of the Democratic Party.

Terrible idea.

[DonCoquixote]

27. Hey

I know many people are angry about the idea of primarying Obama. I myself am against it, not because he does not deserve it, but because I do not trust the American Sheeple to not allow Fox News to turn it into a victory lap. However, I think Dinger might have also meant at the STATE level, which is where primary fights can and should be brutal. Simply put, if clinton did not work so damned hard helping Blue Dogs, we might have won some seats.

[Smarmie Doofus]

28. I vote "real primaries". If Obama's viable, he'll have no...

... trouble breezing thru. If he's not, the primaries will so indicate.

We have to get past the historical non-starter that primary challenges are what doomed flawed , vulnerable incumbents like Ford and Carter in the GE.

[patrice]

30. Instant Run-off primaries?

[TheKentuckian]

32. Expecting incumbents to run unopposed and then doubling back and crying that

the primaries are for settling in house divisions and to support the nominee is a bunch of happy bullshit.

Pick one or the other but you don't get both arguments.