Vegas tunnel people a sign of the times?

[IDemo]

Las Vegas is a city that never sleeps; there is no last call in Vegas. All of the happiness that comes from bright lights, gambling and free flowing booze is a huge contrast to the meager lives of the inhabitants who live below Sin City.

There are 200 miles of flood tunnels underneath the glitz and glamor of the Vegas strip. And there are reportedly 1,000 people who call these damp spider filled pathways home.

People down there like Steven and his girlfriend Kathryn have constructed their mole-like homes with love and care. They call a 400 sq. ft. portion of the tunnel their “bungalow”. Thanks to their ingenuity their space features a double bed, a closet and even a bookshelf.

In the five years they have been there they have made a shower out of a water cooler, hung paintings on the walls and collected abandoned books to build their own library. Their possessions have to be carefully put in plastic crates to stop them from getting soaked by the putrid water that pools on the floor.

http://www.tgdaily.com/opinion-features/52353-vegas-tunnel-people-a-sign-of-the-times

[Ruby the Liberal]

1. Whoa! 1,000 people?

This is like that Sandra Bullock/Sylvester Stallone movie Demolition Man.

How sad.

[Donnachaidh]

3. Now take that number and multiply it by every large city in America

And you'll start to see the very REAL problem we have in this country, thanks to Repukes and Bill Clinton's *welfare reform* and NAFTA.

We just don't look at ourselves very well anymore.

[ohheckyeah]

22. Unfortunately some people seem to have

taken Demolition Man as a blueprint for life in the US.

[Political_Junkie]

23. My thoughts exactly!

Horrible.

[Angry Dragon]

2. it is the republican plan to start charging

property taxes on people living under bridges, and in sewers and tunnels

[Cirque du So-What]

4. Sad that people need to live in such conditions

It will become tragic if the LV basin receives a sudden downpour and floods those tunnels.

[Rex]

5. I promise you, there ain't a SINGLE Republican that gives ONE SHIT

about these people...they have nothing to gain from them so they become irrelevant, like a lump of dirt. I feel for these people and wish our govt actually gave a shit about the people it is sworn to protect.

[RKP5637]

8. Dispensable, throw away people in the eyes of the republicans. The country

is becoming an utter failure for many people. USA, Inc.

[bobbolink]

49. And the Democrats are doing any better?

[RKP5637]

51. Not a whole lot. n/t

[bobbolink]

52. None at all. And I have asked people who wrote all those emails for Keith to now write to him

and urge him to do an indepth report on the true facts of homelessness.

How many do you think will actually do that?

Yet I am supposed to believe I am among friends?

[RKP5637]

54. I will!!! n/t

[bobbolink]

56. I would certainly appreciate that! Would you PM me so I can get you a list of facts?

[calimary]

17. Hate to break it to these lovely republi-CONS (who probably also quote Jesus a lot)

THIS is what Jesus was talking about when he referred to "the least of My brethren." These folks. Whom we were charged to look after, because whatever we did about them we were doing about Him. Or anyway that's what I learned in Catholic school.

[AnArmyVeteran]

6. Only a few feet of concrete separate the poverty stricken from millionaires & billionaires.

It's sickening, but the right wing mutants seem to long for a world with no middle class. They want the rich to own everything and the rest of us to live off the scraps. And right wingers are so gullible and stupid they don't even realize they are cutting their own throats. It would be okay if they were the only ones hurt by their selfish actions. But they will bring down the rest of us with them.

[RKP5637]

12. And many RW'ers will end up living similar lives, and they are too F'ed ignorant to

get what is going on ... they think the ones they give their pennies to are their friends. What a gullible inane flock. And the old ones and soon to be will eventually have their social security and Medicare marginalized and they will wonder WTF happened. I used to think many in this country were just ignorant, now I think it's generational stupidity. It's just too appalling anymore to be just ignorance.

[RKP5637]

7. The American Dream, now a mole-like home. This should be constantly

paraded on MSM, but it won't get the light of day. I'm sure it will be a big hit on HGTV. This is really a F'ed up country. Capitalism off the deep end and many drowning. USA USA USA

[LibraLiz1973]

9. Interesting story that needed to be fact checked

At the beginning the reporter states that the pair have been living in the tunnels for 5 years- midway through he says Steven found the tunnels 3 years ago.

Just saying.

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. They've been there five years, the article says

Sounds like they sort of want to live there.

[Liberal Veteran]

14. Or it could be that it is very hard to dig yourself out of a hole.

Both metaphorically and literally.

[laughingliberal]

27. Really! Some people! nt

[onehandle]

11. This story pops up like it's new now and then. It's not. nt

[fishwax]

15. yeah, I remember it being part of a CSI episode about five or six years ago

[Lance_Boyle]

39. I remember it, too.

There was this monster-looking guy with a cat-like face and a bunch of kids...

[laughingliberal]

28. I'd be willing to bet the numbers are increasing. The trashing of the poor has been ramping...

up since the 80's. It's not new but it's growing.

[Liberal Veteran]

13. I, for one, welcome our future morlock overlords.

Seriously though, it is very depressing that people have to live in those tunnels.

[ipaint]

16. Los Angeles Curbs Homelessness with Safe, Overnight Parking Lots

"Los Angeles, a city well-known for its large homeless population—which in 2009 totaled nearly 25,000—recently announced its 2010 Streets to Homes Program. Still in planning stages, this program is setting out to create safe parking areas for Los Angeles’ homeless residents living in cars and RVs. In July, the city identified 250 RV’s and motor vehicles being lived in throughout the city’s District 11, which includes Venice. To help individuals transition from these vehicles into more permanent housing and to get them off of neighborhood streets, the city plans to create safe, overnight parking lots equipped with bathrooms, showers, waste facilities and various social services."

http://sustainablecitiescollective.com/nextamcity/14170/los-angeles-curbs-homelessness-safe-overnight-parking-lots


Parking Lot Hotels Serve Homeless

An outreach counseling group in Santa Barbara, California, has worked with the city to set up 12 parking lots where people can sleep in their cars at night -- an act that is illegal on city streets.

"There are 12 parking lots across Santa Barbara that have been set up to accommodate the growing middle-class homelessness. These lots are believed to be part of the first program of its kind in the United States, according to organizers."

"The lots open at 7 p.m. and close at 7 a.m. and are run by New Beginnings Counseling Center, a homeless outreach organization."

http://www.planetizen.com/node/31317



Ventura will consider pilot car parking program for homeless
Citing safety and sanitation issues, the Safe Sleep proposal draws criticism from some groups who don’t want people sleeping in public lots

Until Vicky Elliott acquired a camper truck to sleep in, homelessness felt like a bottomless pit she’d never dig herself out of.

“It’s a great step up from pushing a shopping cart,” she says.

Elliott was chronically homeless for the better part of her decade out on the streets of Ventura. But in the past few years, she’s slowly been trying to turn her life around for a better future. In the last year and a half, she and her boyfriend, Greg, managed to secure their truck. Together, they try to make ends meet as best they can.

Greg, who holds down a job as a roadside sign holder for AT&T, and Elliott, who earns Social Security benefits on disability, have hopes of someday buying their own motor home, but struggle with the cost. Even finding a more stable spot to park their camper exceeds what they can currently afford. When they can afford it, they look for temporary lodging in motels, which is their current situation for this week.

http://www.vcreporter.com/cms/story/detail/ventura_will_consider_pilot_car_parking_program_for_homeless/7075/


The ignorance about homeless folks in this country among middle class liberals is staggering. The shelters are full, families, veterans, older lower income unemployed workers all increasingly forced to live in cars, trucks or out in the open on the streets. This economic depression in the lower paid classes is destroying your fellow citizens in record numbers. There is no safety net, money runs out the first week of the month at agencies in my area that help victims of the massive greed and abuse from the top of the food chain.

I am hoping to find something like this in a month when my husband and I will join their numbers, too old to be hired, too young for social security.

Keep dismissing us as some random aberration that pops up from time to time but fair warning the comfortable class is next.

[Gin]

18. good idea to at least offer some safe space and bathroom facilities

I can imagine that is one of the major issues..

[laughingliberal]

29. +1,000,000 nt

[bobbolink]

50. "The ignorance about homeless folks in this country among middle class liberals is staggering. "

Thank you for recognizing this ignored fact.

Liberals want to blame it all on the RW, but do nothing but BLAME.

And, as you say, the ignorance is staggering.

I actually often find independents to be a lot more open to the actual facts.

I appreciate you posting this... you have been on my mind a lot, and I really hope that something breaks for you in a good way! :pals:

[Bitwit1234]

19. You know what this reminds me of??

Have you watched some of the shows on Discovery that show all those poor people that lived in those tunnels under London. Is this what America is coming to? The royalty had tons and tons of money and everything and these poor people lived in terrible conditions. So we now start the same thing. We have the super rich and corporations that pay 100 a glass for orange juice and people living in tunnels that don't even have water. who is going to save this country. The Democrats we elect are just about as bad as republicans. If they had the damn guts they would have passed better bills, but they were so afraid the corporate money would roll their way they ran and hid and failed to pass bills to help the people.

[hunter]

20. Everyone should have a home, food, school, and appropriate medical care.

When I look at all the money we spend on "National Defense" I've got to wonder what the hell it is we are defending.

It ain't our humanity.

[Canuckistanian]

25. Well said n/t

[RKP5637]

26. The priorities in the US are really twisted, really really twisted. Eventually one does

have to ask what are we defending. Anymore, it seems just the money hoarded here, people are in the way. Citizens have become an inconvenience and dispensable.

[Delphinus]

46. I read your post ...

and had to come back and read it again. Boy, you nailed it - I am speechless. Excellent call.

[and-justice-for-all]

21. The rich country in the world my ass...

the greedist country is more like it. It is utterly sad that people in the USA have to live like that, it is infuriating that our society finds this acceptable. No one and I mean NO ONE should EVER have to live like that.

[wtmusic]

24. Yucca Mountain would have brought $100 million to the economy

Time to reconsider, Harry.

[laughingliberal]

31. Great trade! Contaminated ground water for basic necessities! Yay!

We've seen communities scammed with crap like that before. One of ours tried for a medial waste facility having been told the residents of the county would all be compensated. It, eventually, went to New Mexico. Guess what? No one has ever seen a penny of the money.

Angle agreed with you, BTW. She lost.

[wtmusic]

32. Scientists disagree with you.

"Health and safety. For more than twenty years, scientists and engineers have gathered technical data about the rock in Yucca Mountain, water movement through it, expected earthquakes, and the potential for volcanic disturbance of the proposed repository. Applying advanced software and high-powered computers to these data, scientists have estimated radiation doses due to the repository for tens of thousands of years. The radiation protection standards set by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) require that the calculations estimate the likely level of radiation that the most exposed member of the public would receive from the repository for ten thousand years after its closure. The standards require that this hypothetical person be assumed to live about fifteen miles from the repository, to eat some foods grown with local groundwater, and to drink two liters of water per day drawn from the most concentrated plume of repository-caused contamination in the aquifer. The estimates indicate that, for at least ten thousand years, the level of repository-yielded radioactivity this hypothetical person would likely receive, through all potential exposure pathways, would be far below fifteen millirem per year, the radiation protection standard for public health and safety."

http://www.pollutionissues.com/Ve-Z/Yucca-Mountain.html

When any industry comes to an area, it comes with the potential of environmental impacts. I live about a mile from an EPA superfund site, the Lockheed "Skunk Works", which dumped tons of toxic, carcinogenic chemicals onto the ground which then contaminated local groundwater.

That was fifty years ago, before studies were even done on environmental impact. Now Yucca Mountain is the most studied piece of property on the planet, and I would trade my risk for that of living on top of Yucca Mountain in a heartbeat.

Those who don't have a job or a place to live can't afford to be so unrealistic.

[laughingliberal]

33. There was a reason it was called the "Screw Nevada" bill.

The test caskets they put in showed signs of deterioration from ground water within six weeks. Brilliant! And in an earthquake prone area.

It took us over 2 decades to reverse the "Screw Nevada" bill and we ain't looking back, now. Thank the stars Angle was defeated. She's been part of a far right leaning group up here for years who have been chanting, "Gimme the dough, I'm ready to glow." No one here figures the citizens will ever see one dime of benefit from it and the residents of the area will be living with the consequences.

[wtmusic]

34. Yes, it's called "hysteria".

I would love to see links to peer-reviewed studies that support your claims, but I already know you can't provide any. Doesn't that tell you something? That scientists (real ones) are in agreement that Yucca is likely the safest place in the country to store nuclear waste?

I don't really care, I don't live there. Nevadans who don't support Yucca are just screwing themselves.

[laughingliberal]

35. Steven Chu disagrees that it's a good solution.

“It’s fair to say that the whole history of Yucca Mountain was more political than scientific. But also very truthfully I can say that given what we know today, the repository looks less and less good. So now we’re in a situation where it can’t go forward.”

http://www.smartplanet.com/business/blog/intelligent-energy/nuclear-waste-after-yucca/235/

More problems with the original plans were found as recently as 2007. After that many years of study, it's not encouraging they were mistaken about the location of a fault line:

In September 2007, it was discovered that the Bow Ridge fault line ran underneath the facility, hundreds of feet east of where it was originally thought to be located, beneath a storage pad where spent radioactive fuel canisters would be cooled before being sealed in a maze of tunnels. The discovery required several structures to be moved several hundred feet further to the east, and drew criticism from Robert R. Loux, then head of the Nevada Agency for Nuclear Projects, who argues that Yucca administrators should have known about the fault line's location years prior, and called the movement of the structures “just-in-time engineering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain

I have a husband who is a downwind survivor of Nevada's above ground nuclear tests. I'd rather not risk it.

Politically, it was only supported by the rabid right in Nevada. I've not ever seen any evidence they were acting in the best interest of our citizens in any area.

And I've seen far too many of these promises of prosperity for residents that never materialized. We're not that stupid. We didn't elect bat-shit crazy, 'gimme the dough, I'm ready to glow,' Sharon Angle.

[wtmusic]

36. It's important to parse that statement.

Public opinion showed Harry Reid getting his ass kicked if Yucca happened on his watch. So Reid delivered Nevada and 5 electoral votes to Obama in exchange for Obama nixing Yucca. It's that simple.

Stephen Chu is a very astute and intelligent scientist who is also an Obama appointee. If he did approve of the science behind Yucca, what are his options? He could never say "Yucca is safe" and go against his boss. So he said instead:

“It’s fair to say that the whole history of Yucca Mountain was more political than scientific."

No one could disagree. Nearly all of the wrangling over Yucca was about politics, and not about science - which has always been sound.

"But also very truthfully I can say that given what we know today, the repository looks less and less good. So now we’re in a situation where it can’t go forward.”

Or - given what we know today (about the political realities of Yucca), the repository looks less and less good." Stephen is sidestepping the issue because in his position that's all he can do.

I get the reality of people being distrustful because of A-bomb testing, but there is an awful lot of science - good science - which has happened since then. And though politicians may be willing to screw Nevada, the idea that scientists would band together unanimously in a lie (that would risk their professional reputations) is farfetched.

[laughingliberal]

37. It would seem good science would have known where a fault line was before 20 years went by.

I'm supposed to trust all the science from a bunch of guys who didn't know there was a fault line right under the cooling cells after all those years of looking at it. And 'several hundred feet' from a fault line does not sound far enough.

And here is more of what Chu said:

And then there's the waste problem: with future nuclear power plants, we've got to recycle the waste. Why? Because if you take all the waste we have now from our civilian and military nuclear operations, we'd fill up Yucca Mountain. So we need three or four Yucca Mountains. Well, we don't have three or four Yucca Mountains. The other thing is that storing the fuel at Yucca Mountain is supposed to be safe for 10,000 years. But the current best estimates - and these are really estimates, the Lab's in fact - is that the metal casings will probably fail on a scale of 5,000 years, plus or minus 2. That's still a long time, and then after that the idea was that the very dense rock, very far away from the water table will contain it, so that by the time it finally leaks down to the water table and gets out the radioactivity will have mostly decayed.

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/10/03_chu.shtml

Note where he says the current best estimates were that the metal casings will probably fail on a scale of 5,000 years, plus or minus 2. It was less than 10 years ago, they were assuring us the casings were safe for 10,000 years. So, for many, many years the residents of Nevada are told the waste would be contained for 10,000 years and then they find only 5,000. Would 10 more years of study then find it's only safe for 1,000 years? It has seemed every time they've looked at it, again, it's looked less safe. And that's not even addressing the issue of transporting it.

We were living in Nevada when the test casks were being studied and heard the reports that they were showing signs of deteriorating from ground water within 6 weeks.


When the 'screw Nevada' amendment was passed the focus of all the science went from determining the best site for strorage to how can we make Yucca Mountain safe. It was always political and the Screw Nevada bill was meant to tamp down criticism from environmental groups who didn't want it in their state.

[wtmusic]

38. The fault line slips an average of 3/100 of a millimeter per year.

That means on average, it would slip about a foot every thousand years. How much would the slippage affect a tunnel several hundred feet away? Infinitesimally.

I have no doubt that the casings, made of steel, would show signs of deterioration within six weeks when in contact with water. Steel rusts. But in a practical sense, there is no water at Yucca - the water table is 2,000 ft underneath it, and it's in the most arid part of the country (a tiny, tiny chance of water seeping down from the surface through a crack, over a period of centuries, was to be mitigated by covering the casks). And the tunnels are accessible so even if any trace of water is detected waste could be moved.

With all that, the casings might fail in 5,000 years. Instead of 10,000, instead of a million. They might even fail within 1,000 years. Now it's time for a look at the big picture.

Right now, the nation gets 20% of its power from nuclear. There are 120 different sites across the country in which high-level nuclear waste is currently being stored, and every one of them is hundreds of times more likely to be compromised by weather, terrorism, seismic activity, or stupid accidents than Yucca. It's very possible that a significant contamination event could happen in our lifetimes. Where does Las Vegas get its share of nuclear power? From the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station across the border in Arizona. PV stores waste on-site, so at this moment, part of the power you are using to run your computer is generating nuclear waste in someone else's backyard. And that waste that is far, far more likely to make its way to the water table than waste at Yucca ever would be.

And the even bigger picture: if global warming is not dealt with aggressively and immediately, it's virtually certain that Las Vegas will be unliveable in 500 years. Daytime temperatures over the boiling point (some assessments have even predicted a world like that by the year 2100). Nuclear power is the only realistic solution for mitigating global warming in time, but it will never fly without a secure place to store waste. So while we're worrying about water contamination in the Las Vegas area five millennia from now, we should be worrying, quite literally, about the survival of our species.

If we can't develop a logical assessment of risk vs. an emotional one, we are doomed. Physical Limits of Ground Motion at Yucca Mountain.

"Nuclear energy is not only a 24-7-365 proposition, it is also the cheapest of any power source. Which brings us back to Yucca Mountain. The current administration shut down Yucca Mountain to help get Sen. Reid re-elected. The folks around Las Vegas simply don't want a nuclear facility 90 miles from the Strip. It worked. Ok, That's politics. But now the political reason for canceling Yucca is over. Its time for the administration and Congress to do the sensible, economically reasonable thing, re-open Yucca and pave the way for the construction of more nuclear plants. Its the best thing for the country as opposed to the best thing for Sen. Reid."

http://www.politicsandcars.com/blog/1051143_kiss-nuclear-derived-electricity-for-electric-cars-good-bye-for-now

[laughingliberal]

42. I think you made my point. The fault line didn't move after they started studying it by much...

yet the 'good scientists' failed to notice the cooling cells were being built right on top of it. Not the most convincing argument that these guys know what they're doing. The fault was right where it always was. It took them how many years to realize it? What else are they missing. And the current science now says they can only guarantee the soundness for 5,000 years as opposed to the 10,000 they tried to bullshit us with for years. What next? Oh, we really meant 5 years? Their credibility is shot.

Yucca mountain is dead. Look elsewhere.

[wtmusic]

45. And if your waste starts poisoning Arizonans, look elsewhere, right?

Got it. :eyes:

[laughingliberal]

53. Look elsewhere, period. We don't want the shit.

They tried to shove it down our throats because we were a small state with little power and it tamped down criticism from environmentalists who didn't want it in their states.

There was a site in TX that was always a safer option but I do believe it was a Senator from TX who penned the Screw Nevada bill.

It took us over 20 years to kill it but it's dead.

[CanSocDem]

43. You make a compelling arguement...

...for the neccessity of SOMEWHERE to store the waste. But I believe you are lost in a faulty premise.

""Nuclear energy is .......the cheapest of any power source."

Suddenly you are abandoning 'science'...???? And embracing economics!! What's next....nuclear energy is God's will...???

.

[wtmusic]

44. Not my argument

that's in the link I posted, and I agree that it's debatable.

[Duer 157099]

30. I hope I'm alive to see the day when the revolution finally happens

There's only so much that people will take and for so long. It happened in France, in Russia, and soon, here. It's just a matter of time.

[joeybee12]

40. Where I have my feral colony there is a water tunnel right there...

yeah, that's where they live...it gets flooded alot, too.

[timo]

41. ??

whats a feral colony?

[Canuckistanian]

47. Pretty sad

The world is staring to take note of cracks in the American facade.

[Nevernose]

48. We used to play down there as kids

20, 25 years ago. Middle school and high school. Scary as hell, and the same number of homeless people. And whil neither me nor any of my friends would have done anything like this, a lot of assholes went down there with the express intent of beating up homeless people and getting away with it. The flood tunnels were built as a response to the floods from the early 80s -- the town used to be lousy with them, and were until they affected gambling -- and have cost billions to construct over the last three decades.

[MilesColtrane]

55. Eight years of Republican rule has turned the most prosperous middle class...

in history into Morlocks.