We've had an entire generation of Dem politicians.............

[socialist_n_TN]

who grew up during the Reagan years and don't know how to fight. It's a shame, but we need fighters right now. LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS FIGHTERS! Because passion is what moves the electorate in this early part of the 21st Century. Unfortunately, our guys that ARE in power, in MOST cases, don't have that passion.

[derby378]

1. Well, there WAS Howard Dean...

Perhaps if he were put back in charge of the DNC, we'd have a fighting chance.

[socialist_n_TN]

6. Yeah and when Dean came on the scene............

we started gaining in popularity with the people. We need to keep that mindset.

I was actually thinking more of the 80s and 90s rather than the early Aughts. Maybe it was being down South, but VERY few lefties would own up to being lefties back then. When we started owning the label again, we started a comeback. And Howard Dean was a big part of that.

[derby378]

9. Good point

Democrats from the 80s and 90s, for the most part, symbolize an "I'm smarter than you" mindset that included anti-gun and pro-business sentiments, and these do not play well with progressives today.

[JamesA1102]

11. Who never served a day in Congress.

Just thought that needed to be pointed out.

[derby378]

12. Hmmmm...

Food for freakin' thought. Although he did spend a lot of time as Vermont's Governor, with a great deal of success.

[JamesA1102]

21. And he was a very conservative Governor

cutting programs to balance the budget, a lot like Chris Cristi.

[JDPriestly]

2. K&R.

[alsame]

3. "Reagan Democrats" - a phrase that has been

scaring the party since 1980.

[BlueCaliDem]

4. Totally agree!

The American people are pretty aggressive and not so peace-loving. Debate and diplomacy are seen as "weak". Calm deliberation and studying facts to come to a common sense solution for the good of the country, is not appreciated.

The Democratic Party is a party for intellectuals, framed around the consensus that we can be grown-ups and we can discuss our problems rather than cater to the lowest common denominator of our human psyche.

The Repube Party believes in "shoot first, ask questions later ... if you wanna".

Apparently, almost half, if not more, of the American electorate subscribes to the latter, hence the success the Repube Party has had last Tuesday.

It's time the Democratic Party show our teeth, and toss all that civilized stuff out the window, because this is war, and you don't go to war with a peace sign while the other side has automatic weapons and a well-oiled propaganda machine ready to lay the blame for the carnage on the peace-nics.

:kick: & rec.

[socialist_n_TN]

7. Yes BlueCali, the electorate in the early part..............

of the 21st Century obviously responds to passion. And that's something that the generation of Dem politicians who gained any sort of power during the Reagan and immediate post Reagan years have lacked. They were SCARED to show passionate advocacy.

Now OUR passion won't be the same as the Teabaggers. It WILL be informed with FACTS, but the passion needs to be there paramount.

[treestar]

5. So the M$M can ignore them or comment on how

they are too loud and obnoxious and that turns off the voters, doesn't it, Sean?

Whatever.

[socialist_n_TN]

8. So we take our cues from Sean?............

I'm assuming you mean Hannity. Just like we take our directions on leadership positions from Eric Cantor? Or Fox Noise?

You can go ahead and take your marching orders from Republicans if you want. I'm going for passion and the truth of my positions. After all, that tacking to the right worked SO well for Obama and other "centrist" Democrats during this election cycle.

The actual facts are that when we were loud and, yes, even obnoxious, during the Bush II years, WE ACTUALLY MADE GAINS. When we gained power and "triangulated" we lost power.

[treestar]

17. That's an example of how they talk to each other

Co hosts John and Jeff, well John says to Jeff - isn't is likely to lower people's confidence in the President when he yells like that?

The whole coward and courage and passion theme is just a cop out. Rather than deal with reality of how the government works, how the Rs own the M$M, just find a scapegoat, the President is an easy one, and blame his personal qualities. Obama probably has more of that in his little finger than all of DU put together.

Frustration with your fellow Americans, the voters, who just gave the Rs the House. Rather than deal with that, just call the President a weakling. Which gains absolutely nothing at all and in fact makes it harder.

You know what the media would do - look at what they do to Dean. The dog whistles about angry black men, too. You're just proposing a simple solution because the real ones are hard to implement.

[socialist_n_TN]

22. Where did I say ANYTHING about Obama at all...........

other than my GENERAL statement about Dem politicians in the era of Reagan?

So how DO we deal with voters who gave the Rs the House? How DO we deal with massive amounts of corporate money in Republican politics? Would your advice be to roll over, STFU and tack to the right? OK how FAR right? Do we allow the DoD and the President the power to kill and torture Americans who are declared "enemies of the state"? Do we advocate the repeal of the 17th? How about the repeal of the first 10? Do we outlaw unions? Advocate for Feudalism? Or fascism? HOW FAR RIGHT DO WE TACK?

[ipaint]

10. They chose to sell out, they get no pass from me for that betrayal. nt

[LiberalAndProud]

13. Those Dems who do know how to fight are targeted with BIG money.

Ask Alan Grayson. Until we get a handle on $$$ and elections, until we examine and repair the causes behind the fact that only wealthy people have a gnat's chance of gaining political office ... maybe then we will have discovered true Democracy.

[socialist_n_TN]

15. DEFINITELY a problem, but.................

if ALL Dems were fighters (or even a large MAJORITY of them), then those capitalist dollars would need to be spread around and not concentrated.

[me b zola]

18. IMO, they haven't simply lost their passion

...they've lost the bedrock principles that defined the modern Democratic Party. How can you be passionate about your destination when you are completely rudderless? This is what I wrote a few moments ago in another thread:

me b zola (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-08-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. IMO, we did have a brand, an identity
Edited on Mon Nov-08-10 08:46 AM by me b zola
It is the new democrats/neo-liberals who are attempting to re-brand us.

I was born in 1963, and there were a few things that I felt were implicit when I supported Democrats. Protection of the average person from powerful/wealthy interests. This included Labor, civil rights & liberties, a social safety net, the regulation of big business, the protection of our environment, and foreign policy that sought diplomacy and peaceful solutions.

The above principles I always believed were the bedrock, the foundation of the modern Democratic Party that I could rely upon when assessing a politician with a "D" after their name. In hindsight, the Party began walking away from that circa 1980, began jogging away from during the Clinton years, and now is flat out sprinting away from under the Obama administration.

IMO, we need to remember our brand, and in turn remind the politicians why any of us ever became Democrats to begin with.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9506906&mesg_id=9512339

[Individualist]

14. There's a big difference between not knowing how to fight and not wanting to fight.

DLC doesn't fight neocons; they enable them.

[socialist_n_TN]

16. Ain't that the truth......................

You DO have to WANT to fight rather than going along just to be going along.

We need to primary the "go alongers" with fighters. Maybe we'll get a few more fighters that way.

[OHdem10]

19. How about this: In the House especially we have Democrats

who could be stars. Their problem is they are seen
as progressive or Liberal.

We cannot change this fact. The Centrists DLCers Blue Dogs
are not committed to any one issue. They are looking to
compromise. The have no fire in the belly. Let us see
what we can get done. At this point they do not appear
to know what is R or L . Let us just pass something even
if it is RW. Even Tom Brokaw has said at least twice a similar
comment.

I am not re-litigating. But when they started working on
Health Care Baucus wasted 3 months trying to get Republicans
Went farther and farther right. Still not acceptable to Republicans.

Not one Centrist, Blue Dog or DLC has moved a finger or lifted
their voice to confront Republicans when they say Obama just
rammed the HCR through. The Image in Country is Democrats
wrote a bill totally ignored Republicans and rammed it through.
Three months were spent trying to get Republican Support.

From my observation this is the way with everything.

There is a political rule set by Bill Clinton which works
if they used it. When a scurrilous attack is made. You
MUST HIT BACK and Hit back Hard with the Truth. Otherwise
Lies become truths for the electorate.

[SidDithers]

20. Unrec...nt

Sid