Is 14 years old too young to go out for the day without Mommy coming?

[redirish28]

My wife is having a debate with my cousin. My wife thinks my cousin is being outrageous. She has a 14 year old daughter who wants to take a bus down to the library this Saturday by herself. She is meeting several friends at the library for the normal ritual of getting a couple books to read than they want to do some window shopping/and or shopping get lunch at a local hot dog place and then she will come from in time for dinner.


This town my cousin lives in isn't that big. All the stores are within a 3 block area.


My wife did the same thing when she was 14 years old.


When do you cut the apron strings and let the girl be responsible for herself? How and when is a good age for allowing her to start learning Independence?

[Brickbat]

1. I can't tell who thinks what in your OP. If it were my kid, I would have kicked her out with her

friends to run around town before 14.

[redirish28]

5. Sorry my cousin won't let the girl out of her site. My wife says she

needs the girl to have some freedom.

[cynatnite]

9. How else is the girl supposed to learn responsibility?

They need to know they're trusted by their parents. Chaining her to the house will do more harm than good. We've got two adult daughters.

[Odin2005]

71. Your cousin sounds neurotically over-protective.

Which, unfortunately is all too common, nowadays.

[shanti]

83. sounds like a helicopter mom

n/t

[walldude]

51. Yep... I think I was about 8 when I started

leaving the house in the morning and not coming back till dinner. I was about 10 or 11 when I started riding the bus and by the time I was 14 or 15 my parents almost never saw me.

I'm lucky that my kids enjoy staying home, but i have no problem letting them out when they want, and my youngest is 12. I guess it depends on where you live as well. Pretty safe here.

[qnr]

2. Wow... I was hitch-hiking across the country at 14. n/t

[ret5hd]

18. Me too at 15.

[qnr]

90. I don't think I'd do it now, but I certainly enjoyed it back then. n/t

[proteus_lives]

37. Wow, that sounds like the other end of the scale.

Everyone needs to find the middle.

[qnr]

87. To an extent - but I never really relied on family. Foster homes, not one of

them for more than six months.

[Demeter]

3. I wouldn't do it in Detroit Today

Even though I did in the early 60's. It depends on the crime rate. And the traffic accident tendencies.

[TwilightGardener]

4. Depends on the kid, but 14 is not too young to take a bus somewhere

by oneself, during the day, in a safe part of town.

[pnwmom]

23. Most all the 14 year olds in my larger city have bus passes.

Because they take the metro bus to school and are given free passes. They can, and do, use the passes to go anywhere else in the system, including into Seattle.

[TwilightGardener]

24. That's a good deal.

[pnwmom]

32. It is. Another benefit is that when they get to college, or otherwise

into their adult lives, they won't be shocked by the sudden freedom. They'll have had several years of learning to conduct themselves in the world, while still living at home with their parents.

[cynatnite]

6. I think 14 is fine...

If the teen has a history of following through and being trustworthy I don't see a problem. When our teen daughter wanted to be out with her friends, we gave her the law and she always abided for the most part.

I don't see a problem here.

[glowing]

7. I think it depends on the kid... Some 14 yr olds are fine; some are more like 12 yr olds.

It's trust and respect and knowing the values u placed into her will reflect still when she's without u.

[pnwmom]

19. Most 12 year olds would be capable of that in most towns.

And the OP doesn't describe a particularly unsafe town.

[pnwmom]

8. Unless there are unusual circumstances, this 14 year old is way overdue

for more independence. In our city of 100,000, there are no school buses for high schoolers. So all the high school students are given bus passes to use to take the city buses to school. And they can use them to go anywhere else, too.

A child psychologist wrote (a long time ago, so I don't have a link)that by the time a child was TEN, she should be half-way on the road to the independence she would have at 18 when she went to college.

This was a wake-up call to me, since my daughter was 11. Soon after, I dropped her off at a movie along with a girlfriend. And she and her brothers learned to take the metro buses around the same age. (I, myself, grew up in a town of around 30,000, where I lived several blocks from downtown; and frequently walked there by myself from the age of 10.)

[JuniperLea]

10. I encourage all kids to go to the library!

If the neighborhood isn't good, give her a ride. I was babysitting by the time I was 13! I was walking to the library with friends when I was 10!

It's a different world, no question, but you should do whatever you can to make sure our young people aren't losing out because of it.

Libraries are good, kids wanting to go to the library are good. Support it!!

[Jokerman]

11. I was riding the trains in Chicago solo by that age.

So I would have to say no.

[redirish28]

12. The area is a nice size down. Not too big (like Pittsburgh.) it is

a nice size place there are banks stores and the library downtown. I understand how scary the times can be but my cousin here these horror stories and instanly tells her daughter, (my cousin claims she wants to protect her daughter BUT the way she tells these stories as a way to keep her daughter from leaving the home alone.)

The girl is repsonible. She's a shy nerd (hate to say it but it is true.)

[Bunny]

68. Where you live, that would be fine for a 14 year old.

Make sure they go to the Coney Island for lunch - the hot dogs and fries are fabulous. But you probably already knew that!

[redirish28]

142. That is where my wife and I live my cousin lives in a different town similar to the one we live in.

[EFerrari]

122. It's all right if she's a shy nerd.

Kids have their own inner clock. I was very shy as a girl or so I'm told. Maybe it's just that nobody around me was saying anything all that interesting at the time.

lol

[pnwmom]

134. Of course. But the girl asking for more freedom is a good sign,

and the mother should be supporting that, not discouraging it.

And you can see how extreme the mother is by the fact that she objects to her 14 year old picking out a few items in a grocery store and meeting her aunt at the check-out counter.

[HopeHoops]

13. That's a joke, right? 14? Of COURSE that's old enough.

As for mommy coming, she should consider that an opportunity. :evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

14. Depends on the kid and depends how many tools you've put in her hands.

Does she know how to handle strangers, how to stay safe in public, how to weigh dumb ideas from her friends, call home for help, that kind of thing.

[Gormy Cuss]

85. Exactly.

For some 14 year-olds, it's too much responsibility because they don't have the skills. For others, they've been doing stuff like this for a couple of years and it's no big deal. In fact, I know that I had similar days out at 11 or 12.

[Ian David]

15. Depends on the kid, the area, and the infrastructure.

The country, as a whole, is safer now than it's been since 1974.

However, my odds of being a victim today of a violent crime in the neighborhood where I grew-up is once every 255 years.

Where I live now, it's once every 22 years.

So, I wouldn't give my 8 year-old daughter the same freedom HERE that I had at her age where I lived.

Check your local crime rates here: http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/

[Ginto]

16. As long as it can be verified that she is actually going to the library. nt

[fizzgig]

17. i was out and about on my own at that age

we'd walk or take the bus around town. but it does depend on the kid, too.

[MrScorpio]

20. It wasn't for me

And I lived near Downtown Detroit

[soleft]

21. I left my son take the subway from Manhattan to Brooklyn when was @ 14

He'll be 21 on Friday, so I guess he survived.

[mkultra]

40. it always feels good to gamble and win

[pnwmom]

67. The real gamblers are the parents who totally shelter their kids

until they're 16 -- and then let them get driver's licenses.

Or totally shelter them till their 18 -- and then send them off to college, where they're suddenly hit with all that freedom.

[Arkansas Granny]

79. +1

[surrealAmerican]

84. I totally agree.

It's unfortunate that these parents who see letting a 14-year-old take the bus to library by herself as "too big a risk", don't see that depriving the child of ever being able to learn important life skills (like using public transportation, finding her way around town, and conducting her business without a parent) is an even bigger risk in the long run.

They need to remember that their ultimate goal is for their daughter to be a capable, responsible adult, and that won't happen without practice.

[pnwmom]

92. My daughter knew a number of those girls in college.

So sheltered -- then they went wild when they got to college and away from those parents.

[mkultra]

98. yeah, thats a stereotype just as much as the other

this is just one permissive parents use as justification. Kids who grow up sheltered in small towns are frequently very well adjusted. The race to maturity is not really a race.

[pnwmom]

135. What is a stereotype? Teaching your children to take on an increasing

amount of responsibility is hardly being a permissive parent.

And kids who grow up in small towns also have plenty of opportunities to take on adult responsibilities. My husband grew up in a town of 5,000 but his parents didn't overly protect him -- so he had no problem adjusting to a large state university in a big city.

[mkultra]

145. ahh, i must have missed the word "totally"

Those who totally shelter their children are gambling the SAME as those who let there children roam in big cities.

[a la izquierda]

100. That was me

and I went bananas when I went to college. Luckily, I chilled out after a few years.

[caty]

22. A child

psychologist told be this once......

If a line were drawn in the sand and you told your child NOT to step over that line, one of three things would happen. If the child took a step or two over the line, that would be normal. If the child took many steps over the line, that would be a problem. If the child did not cross the line at all, that would be an even bigger problem. It would show that the child had unfounded fear, low self esteem, and no self confidence.

In answer to you question, there is not blanket answer. It would depend on how responsible the child was, how safe the bus ride would be, how safe the town would be, and the character of the child's friends. But the child needs room to make mistakes he/she can learn from. We can only hope they are not mistakes that could cause harm.

[redirish28]

44. That's the 14 year old. She would be afraid to step over that line.

[pnwmom]

60. If she's the cautious type, it's good that she wants to try this.

Hopefully, she won't turn into quite the worrier her mother appears to be!

[JanMichael]

105. "unfounded fear"? What if the kid was rightly (from experience) afraid of the adult?

That would be logical reluctance to avoid physical abuse. You missed a "thing" that might happen.

That also might show a "normal" reaction to shitty parenting.

[PDJane]

25. My son was doing that in Toronto by his lonesome

a couple of years before the age of 14. Now, granted, he was a male, large, and well able to defend himself before that,and a responsible child to boot. However, at 14, a young person is not a baby and must be allowed some freedom. Good Lord and Lady, that's insane.

An addendum; Agnes, my 84-year-old mother, adds this: "The girl will be teased to death...possibly literally...if she isn't allowed to grow up. Fourteen is old enough. Hell, I realize it was a different time, but I'd been working a year by that time. Let the child off the leash; she has to grow up sometime."

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

26. 14 is old enough

She'll rebel if she's not given at least a carrot.

[ismnotwasm]

27. Depends on the kid

Depends on the community. It sounds like it's just fine. I persoanlly don't WANT to hang around 14 year olds, and they don't want to hang around me. There are old enough to use a bus and socially interact with one another. Parents need to stay available, that's all. And to spy a little bit.

I should warn you though, that 'library' trip has been offered as a time honored excuse for any number of teenaged---activities. Ahem

[eilen]

28. Yes,

Here's a snarky answer, you are welcome to forward it: Your sister's an overprotective dork. She needs to get a life and stop living vicariously through her daughter. The girl has to grow and learn to be competent in the world. Her mother is preventing this important developmental skill. If she continues-- see Grey Gardens and little Edie Beale.

[sally cat]

29. Going to the library isn't just for 15 year olds anymore.

[nonconformist]

30. It very much depends on the kid.

As a kid, I was doing stuff like that by the time I was 12. I have a 15 and a 12 year old son, and there is no way my 12 year old is mature enough to do some of the things I was doing at that age. My 15 yo has only recently got there.

The cousin might know that her daughter is just not ready/responsible enough to do something like that yet. While I agree that as parents, we tend to err on the side of over-protectiveness, sometimes there is a good reason for it. Only a parent can determine what a kid is ready for.

[pnwmom]

34. That 14 year old will be 18 in a few short years. She needs more

responsibility NOW. Otherwise, she won't be equipped for all the freedom she'll have at 18.

[nonconformist]

46. She'll also be driving in just two short years. That doesn't mean she's ready for that NOW.

I personally do think that most 14 year olds could handle a day with friends unsupervised. But certainly not all can.

Also, as I raise my kids, I'm noticing that there is a huge maturity/responsibility jump right around 14/15. She may already be there, or she may not. Only her parents know for sure.

[pnwmom]

58. I said she needed MORE responsibility, not all responsibility.

And the fact that she'll probably be driving in another couple of years is all the more reason she needs to be gradually learning how to handle herself out in the world now. Shopping with her friends, going to the movies or the library during the day is how lots of kids start.

I read an article by a child psychologist who said that by the age of 10, a child should be half way to an adult's level of responsibility. By 14, obviously, they should be that much closer. In my city of 100,000, all the 14 year olds have regular metro bus passes because they take the metro buses to go to high school. And outside of school hours, they can use those bus passes to go anywhere else -- including into Seattle.

Parents, alas, don't always know "for sure." Some parents are over-protective, and some are careless. This aunt might actually have a little more perspective than the mother. We don't know.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. I think that 1) your cousin's kid probably should be able to do this, and 2)

your wife (and you) really ought to try to mind your own business. I'm not sure why this is so important to her that she needs to "debate" it.

[pnwmom]

35. Sisters often discuss child rearing and they CARE about each other's children.

Sounds perfectly fine to me.

[Warren DeMontague]

80. They're cousins, but, okay. Still, the tone of the OP is condescending (i.e. "without Mommy coming")

and he didn't say "discuss", he said "debate". It's obviously causing enough contention, on someone's part, that it warrants an OP.

I'm a parent, also, and frankly I don't take kindly to people who feel compelled to armchair quarterback. It happens.

[pnwmom]

95. Sometimes people need to get involved -- for the sake of the children.

This mother really seems over-the-top. For example, the poster said the mother got upset when, on a trip for groceries, the aunt gave the 14 year old part of the list and asked to meet her at the check-out stand.

This mother may need to get some treatment for anxiety. She's not doing her daughter any favor by being so overly protective.

[redirish28]

42. My mom sees herself in my cousin's daughter. She feels for the girl

and she sees so much of her mother in my cousin. I can understand and respecting being over-protective but there is too much over protectness. My cousin flipped out 2 months ago when the cousin was with us and my wife --who had taken the niece shopping for groceries tore the list in half told the 14 year old to get what was on the list she'd get the other half of the list and meet at the checkout area. She even told the 14 year old to get a couple things she wanted within reason. (my wife wasn't feeling well and wanted to get the shopping done.) She went one direction the 14 year old went the other end of the store and started.


The 14 year old was so shocked and happy to have that freedom.

The girl is responsible. She doesn't get straight As but she is a hard worker and the mother just sees evil everywhere.

[hedgehog]

74. I did that with my kids so long ago I can't honestly tell you how old they

were. I figure they had to be old enough to read, which means at least 7 or 8! They knew the market, knew what we usually bought and had few problems locating what was needed and meeting me.

[Warren DeMontague]

81. My inclination is to agree with you

but you guys still might do well not to get too emotionally involved, since she's not your kid.

Unless there's clearly some kind of an abusive situation, obviously that's a different story.

[pnwmom]

107. But there is such a thing as emotional abuse.

And this mother might be on the verge of it.

I wish more people would stick their noses in bad situations where kids were involved. Certainly, sisters should speak up when the emotional or physical welfare of children is at risk.

And if the mother continues along this path much longer, this girl will be at risk -- being terrified of the world is a sickness, unless you live in a war zone or somewhere similarly unsafe, and there's no indication in the OP that this is the case here.

[Warren DeMontague]

126. Right, but, "They won't let me take the bus to the mall and hang out with my friends" isn't abuse.

It might be shitty parenting, it might be ill-advised, hell, it might just be plain old mean...

but we cheapen terms like 'abuse' when we broaden them to encompass everything someone might do that we don't agree with.

[pnwmom]

130. I didn't say it was. But the poster indicated that the situation

was much more extreme than that. This was a mother who was upset that, on a grocery shopping trip, the aunt asked the 14 year old to split the list with her and meet her at the check-out. (Because the aunt didn't feel well and wanted to hurry.) What kind of mother would object to a normal 14 year old (and she is very capable, according to the aunt) doing that?

[Warren DeMontague]

138. It's one side of a story, but on its face, I agree, it sounds weird.

But probably, then, at one end of the spectrum you have "this is so bad I'm gonna call DCFS" and at the other you have "I can't deal with your neurotic parenting and as such I'm not hanging out with you guys anymore".

As such, I wonder how effective 'debating' these matters with the mom is really going to be.

[pnwmom]

140. You're right, Warren, debating this stuff with the mom might not help,

particularly if she's really unhinged.

But how often do we hear of abused or neglected children -- the kind that are locked in their rooms for months, for example -- and then hear that relatives and friends knew, but didn't feel it was any of their business to say anything or otherwise interfere?

Unfortunately, it's often hard to know when some kind of intervention is necessary. I'd rather err on the side of the child's well being.

[Warren DeMontague]

143. There's a pretty big difference between overprotectiveness- even in the extreme- and locking a kid

in a room for months.

Clearly, if there's any indication that this is an abusive situation, the folks in question should do what they need to do. Based upon the not letting the girl take the bus to spend the day with friends and the sort of opaque supermarket freak-out story, I can't really say- I don't see enough there that screams "abuse", but I'm not directly involved.

[JerseygirlCT]

108. +1 nt

[JackintheGreen]

33. 14 is plenty old

But it depends on the kid and on the environment.

My daughter is 13 and she has carte blanche to go where she wants on foot/bike, but I won't let her take the train into the city yet. But she takes off into the woods all the time.

Try directing the overprotective parent to FreeRangeKids.com or Lenore Skenazy's book of the same title. It's generally ridiculous to treat a 14 y.o. like that.

[uncommon]

36. If the 14 year old has a lick of sense then it should be fine. She isn't, however, "responsible for

herself" until she is 18 years old lol.

[RamboLiberal]

38. Hell yeah

Geez, I used to go to the library then shopping downtown on my own when I was younger than 14. Gone for a good part of the day. As long as I was home before dark ok with my parents.

And this was long, long, before cell phones.

And what my parents didn't know was in grade school I'd once in a while play hooky and go downtown on my own.

When I got to high school I'd even take a morning & skip school for the day and go into the "big city" of Pittsburgh for the day on the bus.

What my parents didn't know.... :evilgrin:

Summers all us kids were off on our bikes, in the woods, at the pool or beach, or playing ball or games from morning till supper time. Then back out till the street lights came on.

I'm so glad I lived then and not in this helicopter parent era.

[Blue_In_AK]

39. It depends on the kid, obviously,

and where they live, but all of my girls were out and about by themselves when they were 14. They also let themselves in the house after school when I was at work when they were considerably younger than 14 and started on their homework (or practiced piano) until I got home. I was never an over-protective mother, and they grew up just fine.

[Bluebear]

41. Just sayin' your snide approach of "without Mommy coming" sounds assholish :)

[WorseBeforeBetter]

96. Particularly from the "my wife" poster. (n/t)

[mkultra]

43. honestly it just depends on the child, the city, and how much risk you are willing to take

14 is kind of borderline. In a small town, with my son, i would be fine with it. Change the circumstances, and the risk rises to high for me. Thats what its all about. If your child's life is at risk 1% and that rises to 30% by going alone, i think most people would say no. But if it goes from 1% to 5%, then people start to relax. We are always at some level of risk, its not about eliminating risk, its about reducing risk to practical levels.

[pnwmom]

65. I don't think it's borderline. In most states teens get licenses at 16.

They need to have had plenty of experience handling themselves in public before that happens. By 14, most kids should have already had at least a couple years of increasing responsibility out in the world.

In my city of 100,000 all 14 year old public school students have metro bus passes, because that's what they take to get to school every day. Outside of school hours, they can (and many do) use them to go anywhere on the system, including into Seattle.

[JerseygirlCT]

45. Depends on the kid, the area

and probably several other variables I'm not thinking of now.

Some 14 yos are quite mature and ready to handle any curve the situation might throw their way. Others are not.

This is absolutely a decision for the parent involved. I don't think outside opinions (when unsought) are particularly helpful.

[pnwmom]

66. I think an aunt is entitled to have her opinion. Her vision might actually

be clearer than a mother's who view is clouded by fear.

[JerseygirlCT]

77. She's entitled to her opinion of course

it may very well not be well received.

Do you generally like unsolicited parenting advice?

[pnwmom]

91. My sister and I frequently share concerns and advice about our kids.

And the mother in this case really needs some. She got upset because the aunt, when she had the 14 year old niece with her for grocery shopping, didn't feel well -- so she gave the 14 year old part of the list and asked her to get the items and meet her at the check-out stand.

Any mother who would object to that is really over-the-top.

[JerseygirlCT]

106. Well I agree that a 14 yo should certainly be able to

manage a shopping list and returning to the cashier unescorted. But depending on the kid and the location, traveling alone might be a different thing.

I'm just saying that we all have different styles and different kids - and despite that, the kids usually turn out just fine. The OP was talking about his wife and her cousin, IIRC - I can't imagine telling my cousin that I thought she was being overprotective.

[eissa]

47. I gotta say, I can't blame the cousin

I have a tween daughter and it's hard not to be concerned. She's a great kid, it's not her I don't trust, it's all the sick freaks out there that prey on girls like her. Yes, you want to teach your children to be independent and resourceful, but you also don't want to live with the guilt that you didn't do enough to protect them.

[pnwmom]

61. But "tween" is very different from 14. In a couple years,

she'll probably be driving, which will be a huge step. Better that she learns to conduct herself in the world first.

This is a mother who freaked out (according to the poster) when the aunt took the 14 year old niece shopping in a grocery store -- and asked the girl to get some of the items and meet her at the check-out counter.

This mother's behavior is way too overprotective.

[WCIL]

48. That would have been fine with me

my kids walked everywhere (even at night) when they were 14, as long as they were with a group. The cousin could give her daughter the cell phone and ask her to call when she got to the library and met her friends, if it would make her feel better. The daughter has made fun, reasonable plans and her mother needs to step back and let her go. My mother said no to these types of things, and eventually people stopped asking me to go anywhere. My sisters rebelled and got themselves into really scary situations trying to break out of mom's grasp.

[BonnieJW]

49. I did that when I was 12.

But that was before a kid could wind up on the side of a milk carton. I was allowed to ride my bike anywhere I could and take a bus where I wanted. I was very independent and mature. My parents knew I would always come home when I was hungry. Those were the days.

[ceile]

50. Of course not!

I was riding the bus to the mall and downtown Houston library by age 12....

[Rabrrrrrr]

52. 14 years old is TOO DAMN OLD to be doing this for the first time.

Fuck - I was doing that kind of stuff when I was a kid.

I think one should start letting a kid learn independence when they start showing signs of wanting it. And if they don't start showing signs, they should be gently ushered into it by age 12.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Helicopter parents have a hell of a time

and here is a little observation, anecdotal as hell.

I found people in Cleveland OH, a MUCH smaller town than mine, to be more AFRAID of these things...

Anecdotal again, when the Bombs on Pens canard came out, CNN covered a LOT of small towns and left the big cities alone.

I'd say 14 is about right, but then again, my "kids" will never go on their own The two parrots would not know what to do in the wild

[durkermaker]

54. i did it when i was 5

but it was a small town

[pipi_k]

55. Wow...and I thought MY mom was bad!!!!

Seriously...my mom was a real control freak, but I did get to go out alone at 14.

13, even.

[Blasphemer]

56. I was traveling on my own in New York City at 12.

And with friends earlier than that. I don't see a problem with what this 14 year old wants to do.

[librechik]

57. In our town a juvenile can't be alone as a babysitter until age 12--

that seems like a good, responsible age for what you mentioned as well, depending on the child.

[LynnTTT]

59. If not at 14,. when?

I grew up in Baltimore in the late 50's/early 60's. I often did this same trip from the age of 12: take the bus downtown, go to the Enoch Pratt library, eat lunch in the little Chinatown and come home.
Lest you think I am naive and "things are different now". They are not. I was almost kidnapped in a park at the age of 6 while living in Minneapolis. The guy ran off when a woman living across the street thought something looked suspicious, came down the sidewalk towards us and the guy ran off. He was later apprehended after molesting many girls. I asked my mother years later if these incidents were ever in the local paper or on the news and she said 'Of course not". These types of things happened back than and just were not publicized. Nowadays, if a child is abducted in california, it's broadcast all over the country. We are all more aware and therefore more fearful.
As to the actual question, this girl is a few years away from going away to college. I usually see that overprotective parents end up with fearful kids, afraid to away to school, afraid of anyone different themselves. I've seen people on cruise ships who won't let their 13 daughter out of their sight!!!It's time for us to let our kids grow up. My daughter lives in NYC. When we visit, we see kids go out for the Sunday morning bagels with a list and $20. This helps kids feel more responsible and more confident.

[pnwmom]

64. You are right, LynnTTT. People are scared now because of all the publicity,

because we hear of every Amber alert in the country -- not because kidnappings and molestations are much more common.

And yes, this girl is just a few years away from college (and probably less than that from a driver's license). She needs to learn how to take care of herself without her Mommy around.

Welcome to DU!

[hedgehog]

75. Some cruise ships are probably less safe than some city streets!

http://www.cruisebruise.com/cruise_ship_assaults_abuse_neglect_minor_children.html

[aikoaiko]

62. Yes , but I'd give my daughter a cell phone with a GPS tracker.

Doubly yes, if all this happens before night fall.

[Swamp Rat]

63. I took the street car all the way down to the French Quarter when I was 8

and many times after that.

I am still alive and well decades later.

[Odin2005]

69. 14 is plenty old enough. It's pathetic how much teens are coddled these days.

[distantearlywarning]

70. No way. This kid should have been doing this two years ago.

Your wife's cousin sounds very overprotective.

I was free-ranging around my neighborhood on foot and bike (and a latch-key kid) at the age of 10. When I was 14, my parents would often drop me off with a friend downtown (in a smallish town) to see a movie, have lunch, go shopping, etc. I was given a small allowance to have fun with, and I had to make sure I met them for the "pick-up" at the appointed time. These are normal freedoms and responsibilities for a 14 year old to have. I was given more and more freedom/responsibility as I grew older, and as a result was able to manage my time/money and had some self-discipline by the time I was 18 and got to college (unlike many of my more sheltered peers, who went nuts their first year of college and did poorly academically).

Just think - in two years she'll be driving! Wouldn't it be good if she learned a bit about managing herself without mom along BEFORE she has control over a vehicle? Kids don't learn these things without incremental practice first.

[Dappleganger]

72. With a buddy, sure thing.

Just make sure she has a charged phone and clear rules. We're on our 3rd 14-yr. old and I've done things like that no problem.

[brooklynite]

73. I started travelling around NYC alone when I was 8...

When I was 14, I traveled on my own between Southeast Asia and my Boarding School in Massachusetts. Nobody batted an eye when I went off to Boston on my own for the day.

Time to grow up

[WCGreen]

76. Hell I was taking the rapid transit downtown to shop

and goof around when I was in fifth grade...

Loved going down to the Cleveland Public Library to look at old magazines and books...

[Liberal_in_LA]

119. hell I was smoking and drinking whiskey!

Just kidding.

[CLANG]

78. We didn't let our daughter do that until she was 16 or 17.

I'm not sure what's right or wrong, but we would have been very concerned for our daughter doing this at 14.

I think it may depend on your city and how dangerous it is.

[MineralMan]

82. Depends entirely on the kid. I was gone all day all the time when

I was 14. Got into plenty of tight spots, too, and survived them all.

[pnwmom]

94. From the way the aunt described the girl, she was a perfectly normal

14 year old -- but on the cautious side, because her mother is so over-protective.

This was a mother who got upset when the aunt, on a grocery shopping trip with the niece, gave the niece part of the list and asked her to meet her at the check-out counter. Sounds like the problem is a way too protective mother, rather than a problem daughter.

[MineralMan]

101. Yeah, a normal 14 year old definitely needs some time to

roam and learn how to act independently. It does sound like a helicopter mom. Kids need to have the chance to screw up and make mistakes, or they'll never become independent adults. Lots of that going around, it seems.

On the other hand, I'm not entirely sure any 14-year-old girls are really "normal." :rofl:

[pnwmom]

120. You're probably right about 14 year old girls.

Of course, the same thing is twice as true for 14 year old boys.

:rofl:

[MineralMan]

144. Yeah, but their weird behavior usually occurs behind

closed doors, so it's less of a problem. :rofl:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

86. My mom was a wanna be jailer in the 60s.

This was in post war cookie cutter suburbia that was all-white. And allegedly "safe", although a few years later we had the biggest mass murder in the US happen about a mile away in a very similar neighborhood (Dean Corll/Elmer Wayne Henley - boys only) and then a year after that we had The Candy Man in the next burb over, Deer Park, TX, that murdered his own kid on Halloween for insurance money with KCN in Pixy Stix.


I was not supposed to play with the kids in the neighborhood -- they weren't good enough. She would get mad and yell at me if I "ran off". Sometimes she would barge down the sidewalk with a bamboo switch in hand shrieking my name, looking for me. The neighbor kids and I laughed, because she looked like a fucking lunatic.

I was not allowed to join the Girl Scouts --although I begged and pleaded, because it was the only place I was not picked on, because there was adult supervision. I couldn't go to the city pool and learn to swim either, because of other peoples' cooties. We had no bus service to get anywhere. You either walked and risked heat stroke or got someone to drive you places.

I had no little brothers or sisters, I was not allowed to baby sit. I was not taught how to take care of children. The first time I changed a diaper was when I came home from the hospital with my own daughter after a C-section and my 400 lb. mother in law was standing over me nagging me about it. !!!! :banghead:

I came home every day (School let out at 4 pm & mom picked me up) and crashed for three hours for a nap, and got up about 7 or 8 pm and either did homework or went to orchestra practice (I was tired all the time -- I got Hashimoto's disease when I was about ten years old and was put on Thyroid medication).


I waited to get my driver's license until I was 21. I knew I wasn't ready to concentrate at 16 and in Houston I would have gotten killed. My friends and I were all so busy with band and orchestra we didn't have time to get a license.

[pnwmom]

136. Sounds like your mother made your growing up much harder

than it had to be. Glad you made it through!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

146. I was desperate to get away to college at 17.

My family was so enmeshed we didn't spend much time apart. Mom sat at home, told me what a bum my father was (I told him about this when I figured out what was going on at about age fourteen), and developed her heavy prescription drug downer habit. She would sit at her sewing machine and tell me what a bum he was. I saw no indication that he was other than a good father. She was being passive-aggressive. So when I was about six years old, I asked her the operative question, "If it's so bad why don't you get a divorce?" She didn't want a divorce, she just wanted to gripe and couldn't support herself.

I sat around every summer bored and depressed and unable to sleep because it was 80 or 90 degrees at night and 100 percent humidity and we only had a couple of window units in our shitty house.


I went off to a four year college 200 miles away, lived in a dorm, loved it. I had enough discipline to go to class and get my homework done and party on the weekends. I also found out that I could hang out with whoever I wanted to in college. I found out that smart girls had dates in college -- that was new.

I see parents who crush their children with fear of the outside world -- usually because it's EEEVVVILLLL and SECULAR and it's a tragedy. It's evil the way they control their children with fear of the outside world and secularism. They're fundies and they ruin their kids with fear and shame. Sometimes the kids just come home from college and kill them selves because they were taught no coping skills.

[Cleita]

88. I had that kind of freedom when I was eleven and

so did many of my friends, but the times were different then, the early fifties. The town I lived in was small and the neighbors, the librarians and the shop keepers knew the kids and nothing we did or that was done to us would go unnoticed and would be reported to our parents immediately.

[backwoodsbob]

89. at 14 my brother and myself

would have been told by ten A.M. to go somewhere and don't come back till dark unless someone was hurt

[Danmel]

93. It depends on the kid of course

but I went into Manhattan from Brooklyn on the subway routinely when I was that age- with friends and by myself to meet them. And that was in the mid 70s when NYC was way more dangerous than it is now. My son, who is 16, took the train into Manhattan from Long Island, met a friend, went up to Yankee Stadium, caught a game, returned into the city for dinner and came home without an adult and without incident. So last I looked the cord was long gone. I say let the kid develop some confidence and independence so she can go to college with self assurance. The whole point of raising them is to get them to the point when they can do stuff without you- they can still need you and love you without being attached to you.

[amborin]

97. we did this starting at ate 9; i see kids in nyc, around age 7-8, alone, on public transportation,

routinely....

[WolverineDG]

99. I was being dropped off at the mall or the movies from the time I was 10

no public bus service where I lived, so my mom, or someone else's, did the driving. Sometimes, it wasn't even a mom, but a friend's older sibling who had a driver's license & having to atone for some teen-age sin by hauling the younger kiddies around.

dg

[lumberjack_jeff]

102. Wow.

I'm sometimes taken aback when I realize how atypical my childhood was. I had more "freedom" at age 5. Maybe that's why I didn't like the other kids... I'd already outgrown it.

[xor]

103. I used to be all over the town by myself even as young as 10...

I remember regularly going to the mall when I was 13. I think I was about 13 when I first took a bus on my own. Weird thing is that I have a brother who is about 11 years younger than me, and my mother was totally way more protective of him. It took a much convincing of everyone to get her to lighten up on small things, like having him walk to his friends or whatever.

[Codeine]

111. Heck yeah. Every little boy in the 80s had a bike or a skateboard

and the desire to be everywhere but home. Now the world has grown safer but the parents more timid.

[TBF]

104. Sounds very over-protective -

especially for a small town. My town was under 400 people though, just one main block for business. We ran around with our friends all the time, at much younger ages. Of course anything we did got back to my mom pretty quickly so you sort of got used to being supervised anyway ...

[TheKentuckian]

109. Seems very old for such a first to me. I took the city bus to school every day from 7th grade on

and would have started earlier if I had been accepted to my school earlier. We had most of our 1st graders doing the same. I went to the library after school, to the mall, we went to movies.

I honestly don't even relate and I had an uber over protective mother that I had to rebel against to go swimming at 16. I think people watch too much Nancy Grace.

[Codeine]

110. Holy Christ -- how is that even a question?!

She should have been doing this years ago! No fourteen-year-old on Earth would have needed Mommy along to go exploring when I was a kid. At that age I was skating all over Southern California's asphalt playground, and even many years before I was wandering far and wide in southwestern Wyoming, equipped with my .22, or my BB gun if I had used up all my ammunition.

Who the heck keeps a 14 yr old home? I'm actually sort of terrified that people think this way.

[Motown_Johnny]

112. I agree with your wife, your cousin is being over protective

and that can be a huge mistake in the long run


There was a kid on my block who's parents were far to over protective (an only child) and within 2 months of him receiving a driver's license he was driving like a crazy man and ran into a telephone pole killing himself.

His first taste of freedom was to much for him to handle and he lost control.

Let the poor girl take a bus by herself before she goes insane.

[LisaL]

113. I took pulbic transportation to and from school by myself at that age.

But this is a decision for the parent of the child. If she is over-protective, so be it.
I don't see why it's anyone else's business, even the relatives.

[pnwmom]

133. I've heard too many cases of neglected or abused children

ignored by their relatives because it wasn't any of their business. So the idea that how a mother treats her children isn't "anyone else's business, even the relatives" doesn't sit well with me.

I'm not convinced there isn't some degree of emotional abuse going on here. This mother is off-balance enough that she objected when, on a grocery shopping trip, the aunt handed the 14 year old part of the list and asked her to meet her at the check-out. (The girl herself was happy to help the sick aunt get through the store faster.) Suppose the mother has paranoid tendencies. Should the relatives really just ignore how she treats her children?

I have a friend who was raised by a mother who was schizophrenic -- able to function well enough to hold down a job, but a really terrible mother. My friend and her brother could have used a lot more intervention by caring relatives. The mother was finally hospitalized when my friend was 17 -- and woke up to find her mother standing over her with a knife.

[Kurska]

114. With friends? No. Alone on a city bus? Yes.

Thats my 2 cents.

[pnwmom]

131. If they're nice friends, why not with friends? n/t

[Canuckistanian]

115. If a 14 year old is using the word "mommy" - then yes

My 13-year old son can manage just fine on his own. He can make his own meals, do his own laundry and keep himself occupied quietly for hours.

He stopped using "mommy" 4 years ago.

[B Calm]

116. Hell I was having sex at 14!

[tsparker78]

117. Too Much Shelter

I think that kids who are sheltered too much by their parents end up being immature longer.

[AnnieBW]

118. I did the same thing when I was 14

I took a bus downtown for some kind of "charm school" thing for teenaged girls. It didn't work, but I had fun shopping without my mother around telling me what SHE wanted me to wear.

[JI7]

121. if you don't let her do THAT , she will probably do a lot worse

just to rebel .

[lunasun]

123. Pleez it is the mother that needs to grow up unless the kid has been trouble

and can not be trusted .
If not the case, that is the message the mom is giving her > you can not be trusted to take care of yourself for an afternoon with friends and are not capable of taking public transportation alone

I know some helicopter parents that will not give up- now their 18 yr old yes 18- works at a pet store and has to do the close at night- they both go a 1/2 hr b4 closing and help her clean up and get the store ready for closing ( no - she is not there alone)-bet the owner loves the free loser help!
Of course they use the excuse that they have to give her a ride home that is why they are there........and that is how far the 18 yr old gets now that she is 'old' enough and wants to work -sick

[Withywindle]

124. She'll be legally independent in just 4 years.

Which is a very short time, as everyone over 20 knows.


IMO, letting her have some small, safe independence now isn't an indulgence, it's VITAL to her development, and holding her back from that is...well, I'll draw the line at calling it abuse, but I definitely think it's not good parenting. A request from a normally well-behaved 14-year-old, to have an afternoon out with friends doing innocuous things? Totally fine.

I grew up in a rural area with no buses or any other transit, but from the time that I was 13 or so on, my folks were fine with dropping me and my friends off wherever we wanted to go (Ozzy Osbourne concert in Charlotte when we were 14! My folks didn't like metal, but as long as we agreed to meet them back at this certain place in the parking lot when it was over, they were fine with letting us be there) and picking us up later. When I was 16 and had earned my driver's license (only 2 years older than this kid), all bets were off, but my parents had a strict rule: I could only go out with boys my own age if I was driving! (They trusted me more than random kids, imagine that.)

[bluedigger]

125. Screw that!

The kid should have a weekend job by that age!:sarcasm:

I think the consensus here is clear.

[Rhythm]

127. At 14, i would take off all day on my bike...

Don't know what the mom in question is so overprotective of... at 14, her daughter SHOULD be getting out by herself.




I am forever grateful to my usually-strict parents for the physical freedom they gave me during my teen years. This was the early 80's, and in a big city (500k), no less.

I'd clean up mo room Saturday morning, then head out on my bike and ride all over the place -- stop and see friends a few miles away, go to the mall (i had a large paper-route, so i always had money), go to the local park's rec center to play bumper-pool, and just enjoy being out for the day.

This was before the age of cell phones, and my parents' only steadfast rule was for me to be home at the hour they specified (usually an hour before dark), and that i have change with me to use a pay-phone should i have mechanical difficulties with the bike or something.

[woo me with science]

128. Children should not be permitted to do anything alone.

They will emerge from their protective cocoons at age 18, magically endowed with all the skills they need to be adults.

[XemaSab]

129. I was wandering around Oakland, California by myself

when I was 10.

[readmoreoften]

132. My curfew was midnight when I was 14. WTF is wrong with parents these days.

No wonder the universities are filled with timid, over-medicated, hyperreligious kids whose concept of self-control is church and self-loathing after a night of binge drinking.

[HEyHEY]

137. I did that at age ten.

[Jamastiene]

139. If that parent doesn't loosen up,

they will later learn, the hard way, that they should have taught the young lady to adjust to the real world. It is going to be even worse for her. She is going to grow up hard hard hard if she is not allowed to practice flying while still in the parents' nest. If she is thrown into the real world with no experience, dealing with how it really is out there as opposed to the BS kids are taught growing up, she is going to be devastated.

Take it from someone who was overprotected and ended up paying for it dearly. It took me forever to recover. I'm still not right and may never be right.

A parent should teach their kids how the real world is and slowly give them the reigns so they can adjust.

I feel bad for the 14 year old in this case.

[JonLP24]

141. At 14? Wow.

No I don't think it is too young.

On edit-When I was 14 going on 15 I rode the city bus around Flagstaff for shits and giggles. Very boring town.

[Liquorice]

147. That is between the mother and her daughter. The mom makes that decision, not

the mom's cousin.

[Freetradesucks]

148. Shit, when I was six

I would take off on my BMX bike and be gone all day, miles from the house.

I guess times have changed though....