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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:29 PM
Original message
Deficit Commission Plots to Overhaul Social Security Behind Voters' Backs
That is what the NYT reported today, although it used somewhat different language. It told readers that:

"The group, which has a Dec. 1 deadline for recommending how to reduce the annual deficits swelling the federal debt, purposely has done little to date beyond five public hearings, and it has decided nothing lest any decisions leak and blow up in the flammable mix of a campaign year with control of Congress in the balance."

In a democracy, the purpose of elections is supposed to be to have voters determine issues like the future of Social Security and Medicare. According to this article, the members of this commission conspired to keep these issues outside of the election debate.

The article also tells readers that the co-chairs of the commission apparently misled the public in their prior statements. Both former Senator Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles had given assurances that benefits would not be cut for current Social Security beneficiaries. According to this article, the commission is now considering changing the annual cost of living adjustment formula in a way that would reduce benefits. This reversal of a public commitment by the co-chairs should have been the main topic of a major news article.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/deficit-commission-plots-to-overhaul-social-security-behind-voters-backs
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Lots of $$ to the wars, less $$ to the people. USA, USA, USA!!11 nt
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. What kind of Third Way crap was this in the first place?.
Edited on Mon Nov-08-10 03:34 PM by David__77
It's treasonous and nothing less. How can we possibly campaign as pro-people and defenders of Social Security and Medicare when Democrats are coming after these benefits with axes in hand?
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. "Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike.
No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

-- from Orwell's Animal Farm
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toddwv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Not to Obama
Fuck with Social Security and even I will vote against you in the primary.
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toddwv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Note to Obama
Fuck with Social Security and even I will vote against you in the primary.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-10 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
52. I will join you.
And I mean it.
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exboyfil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. "Four legs good, two legs better"
"All animals are equal except some animals are more equal than others."

'Alfred Simmonds, Horse Slaughterer and Glue Boiler, Willingdon. Dealer in Hides and Bone-Meal. Kennels Supplied.' Do you not understand what that means? They are taking Boxer to the knacker's!'

Some more of my Orwell favorites.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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c14444c Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. 1936 speech
http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/od2ndst.html



On the eve of a national election, it is well for us to stop for a moment and analyze calmly and without prejudice the effect on our Nation of a victory by either of the major political parties.

The problem of the electorate is far deeper, far more vital than the continuance in the Presidency of any individual. For the greater issue goes beyond units of humanity--it goes to humanity itself.

In 1932 the issue was the restoration of American democracy; and the American people were in a mood to win. They did win. In 1936 the issue is the preservation of their victory. Again they are in a mood to win. Again they will win.

More than four years ago in accepting the Democratic nomination in Chicago, I said: "Give me your help not to win votes alone, but to win in this crusade to restore America to its own people."

The banners of that crusade still fly in the van of a Nation that is on the march.

It is needless to repeat the details of the program which this Administration has been hammering out on the anvils of experience. No amount of misrepresentation or statistical contortion can conceal or blur or smear that record. Neither the attacks of unscrupulous enemies nor the exaggerations of over-zealous friends will serve to mislead the American people.

What was our hope in 1932? Above all other things the American people wanted peace. They wanted peace of mind instead of gnawing fear.

First, they sought escape from the personal terror which had stalked them for three years. They wanted the peace that comes from security in their homes: safety for their savings, permanence in their jobs, a fair profit from their enterprise.

Next, they wanted peace in the community, the peace that springs from the ability to meet the needs of community life: schools, playgrounds, parks, sanitation, highways--those things which are expected of solvent local government. They sought escape from disintegration and bankruptcy in local and state affairs.

They also sought peace within the Nation: protection of their currency, fairer wages, the ending of long hours of toil, the abolition of child labor, the elimination of wild-cat speculation, the safety of their children from kidnappers.

And, finally, they sought peace with other Nations--peace in a world of unrest. The Nation knows that I hate war, and I know that the Nation hates war.

I submit to you a record of peace; and on that record a well-founded expectation for future peace--peace for the individual, peace for the community, peace for the Nation, and peace with the world.

Tonight I call the roll--the roll of honor of those who stood with us in 1932 and still stand with us today.

Written on it are the names of millions who never had a chance --men at starvation wages, women in sweatshops, children at looms.

Written on it are the names of those who despaired, young men and young women for whom opportunity had become a will-o'-the-wisp.

Written on it are the names of farmers whose acres yielded only bitterness, business men whose books were portents of disaster, home owners who were faced with eviction, frugal citizens whose savings were insecure.

Written there in large letters are the names of countless other Americans of all parties and all faiths, Americans who had eyes to see and hearts to understand, whose consciences were burdened because too many of their fellows were burdened, who looked on these things four years ago and said, "This can be changed. We will change it."

We still lead that army in 1936. They stood with us then because in 1932 they believed. They stand with us today because in 1936 they know. And with them stand millions of new recruits who have come to know.

Their hopes have become our record.

We have not come this far without a struggle and I assure you we cannot go further without a struggle.

For twelve years this Nation was afflicted with hear-nothing, see-nothing, do-nothing Government. The Nation looked to Government but the Government looked away. Nine mocking years with the golden calf and three long years of the scourge! Nine crazy years at the ticker and three long years in the breadlines! Nine mad years of mirage and three long years of despair! Powerful influences strive today to restore that kind of government with its doctrine that that Government is best which is most indifferent.

For nearly four years you have had an Administration which instead of twirling its thumbs has rolled up its sleeves. We will keep our sleeves rolled up.

We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace--business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred.

I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master.

The American people know from a four-year record that today there is only one entrance to the White House--by the front door. Since March 4, 1933, there has been only one pass-key to the White House. I have carried that key in my pocket. It is there tonight. So long as I am President, it will remain in my pocket.

Those who used to have pass-keys are not happy. Some of them are desperate. Only desperate men with their backs to the wall would descend so far below the level of decent citizenship as to foster the current pay-envelope campaign against America's working people. Only reckless men, heedless of consequences, would risk the disruption of the hope for a new peace between worker and employer by returning to the tactics of the labor spy.

Here is an amazing paradox! The very employers and politicians and publishers who talk most loudly of class antagonism and the destruction of the American system now undermine that system by this attempt to coerce the votes of the wage earners of this country. It is the 1936 version of the old threat to close down the factory or the office if a particular candidate does not win. It is an old strategy of tyrants to delude their victims into fighting their battles for them.

Every message in a pay envelope, even if it is the truth, is a command to vote according to the will of the employer. But this propaganda is worse- it is deceit.

They tell the worker his wage will be reduced by a contribution to some vague form of old-age insurance. They carefully conceal from him the fact that for every dollar of premium he pays for that insurance, the employer pays another dollar. That omission is deceit.

They carefully conceal from him the fact that under the federal law, he receives another insurance policy to help him if he loses his job, and that the premium of that policy is paid 100 percent by the employer and not one cent by the worker. They do not tell him that the insurance policy that is bought for him is far more favorable to him than any policy that any private insurance company could afford to issue. That omission is deceit.

They imply to him that he pays all the cost of both forms of insurance. They carefully conceal from him the fact that for every dollar put up by him his employer puts up three dollars three for one. And that omission is deceit.

But they are guilty of more than deceit. When they imply that the reserves thus created against both these policies will be stolen by some future Congress, diverted to some wholly foreign purpose, they attack the integrity and honor of American Government itself. Those who suggest that, are already aliens to the spirit of American democracy. Let them emigrate and try their lot under some foreign flag in which they have more confidence.

The fraudulent nature of this attempt is well shown by the record of votes on the passage of the Social Security Act. In addition to an overwhelming majority of Democrats in both Houses, seventy-seven Republican Representatives voted for it and only eighteen against it and fifteen Republican Senators voted for it and only five against it. Where does this last-minute drive of the Republican leadership leave these Republican Representatives and Senators who helped enact this law?

I am sure the vast majority of law-abiding businessmen who are not parties to this propaganda fully appreciate the extent of the threat to honest business contained in this coercion.

I have expressed indignation at this form of campaigning and I am confident that the overwhelming majority of employers, workers and the general public share that indignation and will show it at the polls on Tuesday next.

Aside from this phase of it, I prefer to remember this campaign not as bitter but only as hard-fought. There should be no bitterness or hate where the sole thought is the welfare of the United States of America. No man can occupy the office of President without realizing that he is President of all the people.

It is because I have sought to think in terms of the whole Nation that I am confident that today, just as four years ago, the people want more than promises.

Our vision for the future contains more than promises.

This is our answer to those who, silent about their own plans, ask us to state our objectives.

Of course we will continue to seek to improve working conditions for the workers of America--to reduce hours over-long, to increase wages that spell starvation, to end the labor of children, to wipe out sweatshops. Of course we will continue every effort to end monopoly in business, to support collective bargaining, to stop unfair competition, to abolish dishonorable trade practices. For all these we have only just begun to fight.

Of course we will continue to work for cheaper electricity in the homes and on the farms of America, for better and cheaper transportation, for low interest rates, for sounder home financing, for better banking, for the regulation of security issues, for reciprocal trade among nations, for the wiping out of slums. For all these we have only just begun to fight.

Of course we will continue our efforts in behalf of the farmers of America. With their continued cooperation we will do all in our power to end the piling up of huge surpluses which spelled ruinous prices for their crops. We will persist in successful action for better land use, for reforestation, for the conservation of water all the way from its source to the sea, for drought and flood control, for better marketing facilities for farm commodities, for a definite reduction of farm tenancy, for encouragement of farmer cooperatives, for crop insurance and a stable food supply. For all these we have only just begun to fight.

Of course we will provide useful work for the needy unemployed; we prefer useful work to the pauperism of a dole.

Here and now I want to make myself clear about those who disparage their fellow citizens on the relief rolls. They say that those on relief are not merely jobless--that they are worthless. Their solution for the relief problem is to end relief--to purge the rolls by starvation. To use the language of the stock broker, our needy unemployed would be cared for when, as, and if some fairy godmother should happen on the scene.

You and I will continue to refuse to accept that estimate of our unemployed fellow Americans. Your Government is still on the same side of the street with the Good Samaritan and not with those who pass by on the other side.

Again -- what of our objectives?

Of course we will continue our efforts for young men and women so that they may obtain an education and an opportunity to put it to use. Of course we will continue our help for the crippled, for the blind, for the mothers, our insurance for the unemployed, our security for the aged. Of course we will continue to protect the consumer against unnecessary price spreads, against the costs that are added by monopoly and speculation. We will continue our successful efforts to increase his purchasing power and to keep it constant.

For these things, too, and for a multitude of others like them, we have only just begun to fight.

All this--all these objectives--spell peace at home. All our actions, all our ideals, spell also peace with other nations.

Today there is war and rumor of war. We want none of it. But while we guard our shores against threats of war, we will continue to remove the causes of unrest and antagonism at home which might make our people easier victims to those for whom foreign war is profitable. You know well that those who stand to profit by war are not on our side in this campaign.

"Peace on earth, good will toward men"--democracy must cling to that message. For it is my deep conviction that democracy cannot live without that true religion which gives a nation a sense of justice and of moral purpose. Above our political forums, above our market places stand the altars of our faith-altars on which burn the fires of devotion that maintain all that is best in us and all that is best in our Nation.

We have need of that devotion today. It is that which makes it possible for government to persuade those who are mentally prepared to fight each other to go on instead, to work for and to sacrifice for each other. That is why we need to say with the Prophet: "What doth the Lord require of thee -- but to do justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God." That is why the recovery we seek, the recovery we are winning, is more than economic. In it are included justice and love and humility, not for ourselves as individuals alone, but for our Nation.

That is the road to peace.

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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. What infuriates me is that, later one, some will totally blame this on Republicans
and then wonder where all the votes went.

Disand this terrible commission now!
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Well if they Read the NYT actual article, they will be right.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yep, before the year's end, we're going to get screwed by Obama's Catfood Commission and the Dems,
There's a reason that Pelosi cut a deal to ram a vote on Catfood Commission recommendations through the House unchanged. The recommendations are going to be atrocious and unpopular, but they'll try and get it through the Senate and House without as little fanfare as possible. After all, it will have bipartisan support:puke:

Notice how little is being said in the media about the Catfood Commission? They are playing this close to the vest and will try to ram it through as quickly and quietly as possible.

Plan on working until your seventy, and when you do get SS, don't expect to get as much.

And never, ever forget that this will have come about due to the actions of President Obama. If he hadn't created the Catfood Commission, well, we wouldn't be facing this ongoing monstrosity.

Sadly, there are going to be those who defend this anyway. Frankly, my thought is that if we get a Catfood Commission coming out recommending cuts in benefits or raises in the minimum age, no Democrat, including Obama, who was in favor of this will not get my vote, period.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Yavapai Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
41. Our future???
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-10 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #41
53. Now with more soylent green! nt
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Obama put those assholes in charge. The buck stops at Obama's desk.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is the NYT article.....
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. no, that's *not* the nyt article referred to. this is:
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Ah I was going by *dates*, Nov. 2
since the OP says NYT today. I guess they meant yesterday.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. they meant yesterday, the op is dated 11/2
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Indeed it used different language, why not link to the original article?
Edited on Mon Nov-08-10 04:00 PM by SunsetDreams
Debt Panel Pauses Until After Elections

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/02/us/politics/02fiscal.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Deficit%20commission&st=cse

Your link doesn't do that at all, but "somewhat" spins the NYT article, which is why I suspect the author of that article, didn't link to the NYT.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. "used different language" -- how's that?
Edited on Mon Nov-08-10 04:33 PM by Hannah Bell
1/3 of the op is a direct quote.

"The group, which has a Dec. 1 deadline for recommending how to reduce the annual deficits swelling the federal debt, purposely has done little to date beyond five public hearings, and it has decided nothing lest any decisions leak and blow up in the flammable mix of a campaign year with control of Congress in the balance."

1/3 is a comment on that quote:

"In a democracy, the purpose of elections is supposed to be to have voters determine issues like the future of Social Security and Medicare. According to this article, the members of this commission conspired to keep these issues outside of the election debate."


How do you read the fact that the Commission is not releasing information about its decisions lest exposure to public scrutiny blow them up?

I'd say that = plotting behind the public's back.






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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. It's in the other 1/3 that you fail to mention.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Plus they are not meeting behind voters backs, 5 public hearings
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Public hearing collect information from the public, they don't (didn't) disseminate it.
I find support for this claim:

"The article also tells readers that the co-chairs of the commission apparently misled the public in their prior statements. Both former Senator Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles had given assurances that benefits would not be cut for current Social Security beneficiaries. According to this article, the commission is now considering changing the annual cost of living adjustment formula in a way that would reduce benefits."

here:

"Other options include less generous formulas for both initial benefits and annual cost-of-living increases for retirees in future decades. Democrats say any compromise to assure Social Security’s solvency for the next 75 years would have to include increased payroll tax revenues as well as changes in benefits."

do you read it differently?
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Well since we are talking about the article you linked to and not NYT
Edited on Mon Nov-08-10 04:45 PM by SunsetDreams
Short answer it's spin.

But carry on, I'll not continue to bump up a thread that is linked to a spin article, that doesn't even link to the NYT actual article.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. I quoted the article directly and asked if you agreed with Baker's interpretation of the quote.
You didn't answer that question.

Possiblly because answering in support of your spin might make you look like you couldn't read.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Since you edited your first reply:
Edited on Mon Nov-08-10 04:37 PM by SunsetDreams
with this:
"How do you read the fact that the Commission is not releasing information about its decisions lest exposure to public scrutiny blow them up?

I'd say that = plotting behind the public's back."

The commission isn't releasing anything until Dec. 1st, they've had 5 public hearings. The article is spin.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. no, they're not releasing anything until dec 1. exactly.
Edited on Mon Nov-08-10 04:56 PM by Hannah Bell
"five public hearings"

though you fail to acknowledge the fact, the hearings were to gather public comment, not to release information about the commission's deliberations. And there's some amount of mendacity in the claim to have held "five public hearings". Only one, in fact, was actually open to the general public.

"Wednesday’s event is in part a substitute for field hearings around the country at which members of the public get a chance to express their views. The commission lacks both the funds and the time to hold such hearings. With a budget of only $500,000, the panel doesn’t pay any of its 18 members and those who live outside Washington (except for the co-chairs, Republican Alan Simpson and Democrat Erskine Bowles) have to pay their own way to meetings. As a result, Wednesday’s event is likely to be the only time the public at large will be able to voice concerns about how best to handle the government’s long-term debt problems....Twelve of the 18 commissioners are senators or House members with tight schedules, so the idea of arranging a set of regional meetings around the country was dismissed as unrealistic."

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Blogs/2010/06/29/fiscal-commission-public-hearing-debt-watch.aspx

http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/meetings/


"Commission members drifted in and out and no more than six of the 18 were ever present, although 75 witnesses spoke during the seven-hour affair. Commission chairman Erskine Bowles left before the 8 p.m. final gavel to make a flight out of town. His co-chairman, Alan Simpson, got a cushion for his chair two hours into the hearing, the better to bear the burden.

In the morning, the commission took testimony from Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf. Ninety people signed up for four-minute speaking slots in the afternoon. They included a familiar lineup of budget wonks, representatives of labor, immigration and anti-tax groups and a just handful of private citizens who came to speak for themselves."

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Issues/Budget-Impact/2010/11/02/~/link.aspx?_id=3F50C336C35A471885D653F46D24847F&_z=z

The fact is that citizens are not involved in these deliberations; the Commission is going to release a set of recommendations & try to get a vote in the middle of the holiday season when people aren't paying attention.

Not only that, it's being done after the elections so pols don't have to pay an immediate price for their vote.

a travesty.

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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Tell ya what...

Some people must like to eat crow. WTF it gonna take, sky banners?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. they never eat crow. when things don't go as their spin would have it, they just
pretend it never happened.

it's an interesting phenomenon.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
43. You're misleading people, as usual.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. but not you! no, boy howdy, you are so clever you spotted my evil duplicity!
i'm sure all the fools who can't parse an english sentence are lining up to kiss the hem of your garment.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. The current cost of living formula understates real inflation for seniors and they want to weaken it
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thanks, thanks a lot, Obama. Nice since you will never have to depend on SS for your retirement yrs
:grr:
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. Unrec...nt
Sid
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. You really want cuts to social security? Sickening /nt
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. LOL!!!
Will this shit never end?


:eyes:
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Oh... And UnRec. nt
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. You mean the extraction of wealth from the people to prop up the banksters?
And the lies about what's happening?

Not so long as the cheerleading section stays on the field.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Good god. When is this craziness going to end? This doom/gloom bullshit needs to end sometime...
Patiently looking at my watch...
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. excuse me, you may have missed the threads where DU-ers are losing their jobs, homes
Edited on Mon Nov-08-10 05:12 PM by Hannah Bell
& getting ready to move into homeless camps.

If you don't think the deficit commission is going to mess with SS, perhaps you've missed the global depression & similar moves in europe. the banksters have to recoup their losses somehow.

The doom & gloom is nowhere *near* ending.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I know. You and your ilk will continue to spread false doom/gloom
Freedom of Expression, I guess.

:shrug:
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. you must lead a sheltered life. in my world there are two empty houses on my
block of ten houses, our city government is taking 20% cuts, we have 15% unemployment, we've have two "rage" shootings in the last two weeks, and there's nothing in the picture that's going to change anything anytime soon.

forgive me for intruding on your lollipop world.

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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. Your condescension is not helpful nor informative
No lollipop world here. Dallas metro area is also feeling the pinch of this economy.

But there are signs of hope for recovery soon.

I just wish that you could post something positive every once in a while.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. you started with Condescension, why expect a better reply?
Edited on Tue Nov-09-10 04:42 PM by fascisthunter
have you ever listened to or read some of Ravi Batra's work?
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. by "ilk", I can only conclude you mean..
people with more than 2 brain cells to rub together.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-10 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Less than two. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
42. Nuh uh!
I'm so glad to see folks jumping on this, because no way will the Catfood Commission live up to its name. We have promises, solemn promises, lots and lots of solemn promises, that deficit reduction won't come at the cost of further impoverishing the most vulnerable. So there! And we know that we can trust a lame duck session of a badly beaten Congress to stand up for the aged and the infirm against multinational defense contractors who just happen to have a few extra billions laying around to either support re-election campaigns or punish their adversaries with contributions to their opponents in the next election. Our elected representatives will surely be on the side of the people. QED, all you doom-and-gloomers!
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
44. I can't believe I got deleted because I won't support cuts in SS, I thought we were Democrats here
I won't applaud it tho, even if it is forbidden now to support SS here.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. the social safety net is so passe, don't you think? venture philanthropy is the going thing.
the rich will save all the poor people -- & make a profit at the same time!

cause they're so gosh-awful clever!
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. They should call it the venture philanthropy commission because SS isn't part of the budget deficit
Only a con artist would mislead by lying about this having anything to do with a deficit it isn't part of.
Now I learn that to oppose such nonsense has become against the rules without explanation.

This only concerns me because Democrats are SUPPOSED to support SS not delete support for it.

I imagine I will be banned now for telling the truth, but I just don't know how to sell out my Democratic principles so I have no way to avoid it it would seem other than by being silent (which will only be here as I will now take my posting time and work harder on my LTTE's about this subject only this time without pulling punches like I have been.)
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-10 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
51. Social Security funds are 100% seperate from the deficit. Look at your paycheck - taxes are one
Charge, SS is seperate.

Stop this meme now.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-10 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. Yes! Way to say it!
And the money should be there. If it isn't those responsible should hear from us.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-10 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
55. k&r
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-10 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
56. k
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