••• Obama will not let the GOP implode in the next 2 years. He will bail them out. •••

[breadandwine]

Obama is still offering the GOP the never ending olive branch and he refuses to fight. Now it is his forlorn plea that they all work together around the campfire because they all "have to" get something done. Says who? Since when was that true? Since when did the GOP want to get anything done? For the next two years it will be a rerun of the Gingrich years when Gingrich took over and tried to shut down the government and impeach Clinton. This is what inspired the creation of Moveon.org, to demand that the country stop impeaching and "Move On."

If we are desperate to pass legislation, the GOP will demand that it all have a right wing imprimatur and it will be a disaster. If we do not "need" to pass legislation, the main event will be that the GOP will make fools of themselves and the country will eventually get sick of them. Hopefully by 2012.

There is no evidence that Obama has figured this out, that the next two years have to be for laying the groundwork for future success through the bully pulpit and progressive propaganda, NOT through begging and pleading for cooperation and caving in under threat of blackmail.

Everyone on the left is screaming against more cooperation with the GOP. All the progressive columnists in the NY Times, Cenk, Keith, Rachel, Ed, Michael Moore, the list goes on. Only Obama is stuck in this Johnny One Note of endlessly trying to cave in to the Republicans and fantasizing that they will compromise "some day." After all. What could they possibly have against liberals, hm?

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." ---- Einstein

The other day I wrote about how I thought the GOP takeover of the House (but not the Senate, which restrains them a bit) could be an (albeit bitter) opportunity for us.

See here ----

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9465469

After taking over the House, their evil can be "drawn into the open where it can be better seen" even by the mentally dense.

What I neglected to mention is that this only works if we do not tango with them, which only obscures their evil and allows them to muddle who is to blame for failure. Nothing will get done for 2 years. That can be an opportunity. It can fertilize the field for future success from 2012 on. Many great achievements in politics start with long campaigns of propaganda to fertilize the field before the big achievement is made. The GOP understands this. They are content to scream and attack for ages even if it means not getting what they want for years. We, it now seems, have no stomach for that. If so, the next 2 years that could have been an opportunity will be a disaster.

[apocalypsehow]

1. Delighted to be the first to UnRec. n/t.

[breadandwine]

3. It is physiologically impossible for you to have read the link in the time it took you

to stab your itchy unrec finger into your computer console.

[apocalypsehow]

5. "Physiologically"? LOL - funny stuff. In any event it took me two minutes, the

precise amount of time between the moment you posted it and I UnRecc'd it, to peruse the silliness. Indeed, I gave it a second look-over before I posted.

That aside, your OP title alone deserves an UnRec.

[breadandwine]

10. Wow. You must really hate yourself, Apocalypsehow (as you call yourself...).

I just said it was impossible for you to have READ in that time and you respond by admitting you did not ---- you "PERUSED."


Perusing, i.e., skimming, has another name. It is called FAKE READING.


Those who did read what I wrote there appreciated it a lot and said so.

[apocalypsehow]

17. LOL! And the trouble with the definition of words in the English language continues (*ahem):

pe·ruse verb \pə-ˈrüz\
pe·rusedpe·rus·ing
Definition of PERUSE

transitive verb
1
a : to examine or consider with attention and in detail : study
b : to look over or through in a casual or cursory manner
2
: read; especially : to read over in an attentive or leisurely manner
— pe·rus·al noun
— pe·rus·er noun

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peruse


So much for that. ( :rofl: )

"You must really hate yourself"

And right on cue, the shade-tree internet psychologist arrives on the scene. Textbook. :thumbsup:

[Orrex]

2. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Rita_Mae_Brown">Um, you know that's not actually an Einstein quote, right?

[breadandwine]

4. That's rather lame, Orrex. Your source is from 1983. Einstein died in 1955. He said it first.

....

[Orrex]

8. Super. Give me the citation.

I'll happily recant after you can document Einstein as the source of the quote.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. here

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins133991.html

and here

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/26032.html

and here

http://www.notable-quotes.com/e/einstein_albert.html

[Orrex]

15. And here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9517496&mesg_id=9517584

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. here

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein


http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins133991.html

[Orrex]

13. Really? What's the source? I see no verified attribution on that page

Einstein is everybody's favorite "source" for zinger quotations, but documentation of those quotes is often damnably hard to come by.


However:
http://rodgerv.wordpress.com/2007/02/10/insanity-doing-the-same-thing-over-and-over-again-and-expecting-different-results/

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Not that it will help

you got a rec.

It will also split his "base" into the left wing and the conseradems, the latter trying to shut down the left, as always.

That is like MO... I mean the so powerful left, that has been marginalized to non-existence even when they are right, time and time again.

Good luck with that.

I will vote, but I suspect NOT enthusiastically, again. It will be a choice of the same or the crazee.

[davidinalameda]

12. threw my rec in there as well

unless a lot happens in the next two years, I can't see myself voting for Obama

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. And isn't this what some folks want?

thanks for saying it in the open.

The highest duty of a citizen in this republic, if it still remains one, is to be critical of the government when richly deserved, and to complement the government when deserved. Other attitudes are just servile.

And I know a FACTION of DU wishes people just shut the fuck up!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

O.K., I'll give you that. I do ultimately think it's our responsibility.

My brother didn't vote in the midterm. Rather than blame himself, he suggested that it's the media and the Democrats' fault. Wait a minute: we all know that we're supposed to vote every two years. We can't hold the media and a political party responsible for not reminding us to vote. That's OUR responsibility!

Just like it's our responsibility to push our leaders to work for us!

I find it funny that people are coming here to flame me rather than speak on the issue at hand. But that's par for the course. I expect it 'round these parts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Sorry that don't work that way in the US

BOTH parties have to MOBILIZE 51 cadres, aka political bases, every two years.

You want to change that? Either CREATE that civic culture, other countries have done that, look south... or you make it mandatory, look at Australia.

If you do not understand this, I can't help you. But this is like very basic in the US. And for the record wish it was different.

And no, CONVERVADEMS, who got MOST of the pounding, want the fucking left to shut up, and at this point STARTING here, on this site. And yes, there is a concerted effort to do that. And I hate it...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

60. Of course I understand this, but it is very naive of you to expect someone else to

motivate you. In other words, there's only so much that parties can do to motivate voters. If they don't vote, then it's THEIR fault. That's all I'm saying.

I'm a political scientist by trade, so I do understand other systems, but I can't see that happening here in the U.S. EVER!!

And yes, no conservadems. If we really want progressive change, we have to run great progressive candidates from the grassroots.

Too bad Grayson lost. He was one of those fighting Dems.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Either you create that political culture

It doesn't exist, or you make it mandatory.

And no, it is not naive. That's the way it works... PERIOD!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

63. You can work to create that political culture, but with Americans, I don't see that happening.

There is a systematic dumbing down in this country. Believe me. I see it in my students--who are political science majors--who simply don't care. They don't care about facts. They don't exercise critical thinking skills. They don't care. As I said before, my brother didn't vote. He KNEW that there was an election. He simply didn't care. It didn't matter how many times Obama came to D.C. or to MD to stomp for O'Malley. It doesn't matter that my brother adores Obama. He just doesn't care. The only thing that political parties can do is to mobilize their electorate as much as possible. The Democrats need to do a much better job of this. However, no matter what we say or do, if people just don't care to vote, then there's nothing we can do.

And making voting mandatory in this country will go down as well as...say...the health care mandate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. There is a saying somewhere that applies...

Something ' bout insanity

[breadandwine]

18. You miss the point, Liberal_Stalwart71. No one here is against the Democratic Party.

I was fighting for the Democratic Party long before there was a DU and when many here were either in diapers or hadn't yet been born.

Howard Dean said it well when he said he was fighting for "the Democratic wing of the Democratic party."


During the campaign WE TOLD YOU SO.

WE WARNED.

We quoted Harry Truman:

"If you run a Republican against a Republican, the Republican will win every time."


The problem prominent progressives have been warning about is that the REPUBLICAN wing of the Democratic party and its foolish policies is not helping matters.

That is all.


I'm sorry if your wittle feelings are hurt by some self-criticism within our own party.

Learn to take it.

Everybody outside your little bubble is saying what I am saying. Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, who writes "Conscience of a liberal" is talking this way.

Do you have a problem with Michael Moore? He too is saying that we are not fighting.


Give me a rebuttal of Michael Moore on this. I double dare you. Let's hear it.


We have an opportunity even now but we are wasting it by caving in.

AGAIN.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

19. The bottom line: if all hope is lost and we have given up only after less than 2 years,

then, we have really lost.

What really pisses me off to no end is that Bill Clinton was allowed 8 years. Many of his policies have had lasting negative effects on this economy! Screw "I told you so!" crap! I have never seen a president treated so unfairly as this guy. We can't give him one full term? Not one?

That is just insane!

[TheKentuckian]

27. How goofy is it to point to the undermining Clinton did, see Obama going the same route

with many of the same clowns augmented by Republicans and wondering why folks don't have patience foe it.

Your logic boils down to Clinton fucked us over for eight years so we need to allow Obama to screw us the same way.

Why the hell do you think people were running away from Hillary like their hair was on fire? We absolutely did not want this shit again.

What the fuck is so hard to get about this really simple issue. If we wanted the "third way" crap then Clinton is the nominee because she had the conservadem block tied up.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

30. No, it's not. You expect magic to happen in less than two years. That's not logic. That's lunancy!

Especially given the obstruction, not to mention the fact that due to Clinton's deregulatory policies, the media is now 100% corporate, shilling for the Republican Party.

We can't expect to beat these special interests in less than two years.

We have to keep pushing the White House and the Dems to do the right thing.

Bitching about it here makes no sense.

So while you're insulting me on a fucking blog, keep in mind that the fight is not over. We are not done by a long, long shot!

[defendandprotect]

35. And how many responses have you ignored to your "pony" and "magic" arguments ....

time for YOU to listen --

what you have been spouting for almost two years make no sense --

and still doesn't!

Obama eloped immediately after the election into right wing corporate arms --

from DLC-corporate wing Rahm Emmanuel to Wall Street -- Summers, Geithner on and on --

Goldman Sacks -- and it paid off -- for corporations!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

41. I've ignored the truly ignorant posts like yours. I've listened enough to ignorance.

When I no longer wish to entertain that ignorance, I ignore. Simple as that.

Off you go! Bye!!

[defendandprotect]

42. And that's why your "pony" and "magic" posts have continued on.....

[inna]

49. pure projection on your part re. "the truly ignorant posts"

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

67. Projection is as projection does. I won't back down on what I believe regardless

of how "ignorant" you think it is. Sorry.

[TheKentuckian]

36. What is it with the time crap. What he does sucks, what he plans to do sucks, who he appoints sucks,

and he far too often either supports the corporate right position or at best acknowledges it as a reasonable position.

If this kat had 80 years it would not be enough to move on our goals because he does not share them. He is a conservative. Not a radical regressive but a corporatist conservative.

It is not about the distance, it is about the direction. It is not about the when but the what. The White House and (many) of the Dems have no intention of doing the right thing.

Defending crap policy that we all know sucks here makes no sense at all.

You are also on a blog so don't throw too many stones.

[inna]

40. "You expect magic to happen in less than two years. " - Utterly pathetic straw man.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

43. Explain, please. Why pathetic?

[defendandprotect]

45. It's sadly .....

laughable to see even now post the Election that anyone is still pushing

this lame .... "it's only 2 years" nonsense -- unbelievable!!

:eyes:

[patrice]

46. It's not just the obstruction BECAUSE bitching about it here DOES make the sense of splitting thin

margins in order to do base-building for someone's own special interest, rather than for everyone's, which is what the President is trying to do under the absolute WORST circumstances possible to risk such a thing.

And, as you observe, one of the essential errors of such posts is that this thing is not over "... by a long, long shot" though some folks engage in frequent, ideologically absolute, over-simplified, either false dichotomies or false equivalencies, whatever suits the situation, in order to drive their own agendas.

[TheKentuckian]

81. Obama is pursuing the same neoliberal agenda or worse with the same folks or worse.

You might try reading what you are responding to and notching down the emotion for some dude you don't even know.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

34. Nonsense....that's just fear based thinking ... if you want true FEAR look at the reality....

of what Obama has done in back room deals with Big Pharma

and the private health care industry!! Wow!!


And, as a matter of fact, if Obama doesn't begin to stop pushing these corporate

attacks on Americans, IMO, we need a new presidential candidate in 2012 --

Not only someone who's a Democrat, but someone who is actually a liberal/progressive --

and even more preferably .... someone who is a HUMANIST!!

[treestar]

57. In conservative districts, yes. They will vote for the Republican.

At most they will vote for a Blue Dog.

Those districts are not going to vote for liberal Democrats.

This fantasy is almost hilarious. Plus it didn't work. Feingold did what he was supposed to do and got beat.

The Harry Truman quote is getting boring. It does not apply today. Give red districts a choice between a Republican and a liberal Democrat and they will pick the republican every time. They might vote for a Democrat but they will expect that Democrat to represent them, not some liberal district somewhere else.

[leftstreet]

21. No one should 'believe' in a politician. It's not faith-based politics

Good grief

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. Absolutely not! It's not just our job to vote. We have to get out there and work.

And we have to hold our politicians accountable. But that doesn't mean that we just throw our hands up and give up.

THe difference between us and the Repukes is that they rely on an authoritative figure to tell them what to do and how to believe and what to think. We don't.

However, that doesn't mean that we don't hold our politicians accountable even if we support them.

I'm not happy with everything Obama has done, but as a student and lover of politics, I understand how this political world works. Perhaps it's a product of me living in D.C. for far too long, but the world that we want to have is not the reality in the world of politics.

Hell, I wish to God that more people were liberal or progressive, but the reality is that they are not.

That doesn't mean that we stop fighting.

Which brings me again to my question: if so many people have given up hope, then why come to DU? Only to bitch and moan on a blog? Why not do more to work and push the White House and the Dems towards what we want? Why not reward those Dems who are doing well and who are fighting, and voting more of them into office?

I just don't understand the defeatist attitude. If we give up, the Right has already won.

I'm not ready to stop fighting yet. Not only after less than 2 years. That's the definition of lunacy!

[defendandprotect]

37. Where are you holding Obama "accountable" .... and to what?

The nation's mandate was for UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE ...

presumably you have no cares in that regard?

Fear based thinking is "defeatist" -- the desire to be protected from realtiy

is "defeatist" --

We're all fighting to move this government to the LEFT .... away from CORPORATISM --

not sure what you're fighting for ... do you want to explain?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

44. Only way to find out is to wait and see what happens. n/t

[defendandprotect]

47. Don't rush in making up your mind ... it's only been two years ... !!!

:eyes:

[patrice]

51. No waiting. Plan B, C, D etc. is to do the WORK that we CAN do for what we want done, so whatever

he does, he's not the only thing we have going for us and NO POLITICIAN is, because we are more about the issues and how they affect us than we are about them.

[defendandprotect]

33. Why should people disillusioned with Obama leave? Would you have

said that before Election Day?

We've voted for Obama - we've voted for Democrats and we're fighting to end

their corporatism and their right wing shift.



How is it this doesn't disturb you?


Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!

Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:03 AM


Here is the quote: ”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that

the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system;

the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18FE-70B2-A835FE1E7FA8D74C


That should make everyone here sick to their stomachs ....

and the pretending goes on and on!!

[JTFrog]

59. Reading politico does make everyone here sick to their stomachs.

But some persist in posting that crap.

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

These are Rahm Emmanuel's own words in an interview with Ben White ....

and the "crap" is all pure Rahm Emmanuel -- and DLC corporate-wing ...

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18FE-70B2-A835FE1E7FA8D74C

In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel

argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.


Let me repeat -- too many DU'ers think the DU should be a place to come to be

protected from reality!

And, again, if those comments don't make you ill, you can't read.

[donheld]

53. I'm not supporting the Obama/Democratic Party if

I'm not sure they're supporting me. So far for me the jury is out.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

69. You say "so far the jury is out." Does that mean you're going to see what happens?

Or, have you given up on he Democrats because you think they're not supporting you?

I'm curious about this.

And please don't flame me as others have in this thread. I think my question is very simple.

[donheld]

79. As i said the jury is out

Yes it's a wait and see thing. I haven't given up totally. I do feel like far too many are bought and paid for, not by us but Multi-National corporations.

[patrice]

14. "There is no evidence . . . " is really only I/we have no evidence of such-and-such.

The nature of proof is much more demanding than that.

[katandmoon]

20. K&R

[MannyGoldstein]

22. +1 nt

[grahamhgreen]

23. Well said. Doing nothing would mean the Bush tax cuts would simply expire, yay!

At least wed get that!

[defendandprotect]

38. Well, so would tax cuts for the middle class and poor also expire ... !!!

[grahamhgreen]

50. True that. But remember, when your running a deficit, your not really getting a tax cut,

Your borrowing money from China that we have to pay back later

[defendandprotect]

71. True ... but when you support a president giving taxpayer money to corporations ....

in bail outs, you're also giving money to China.

We need to raise taxes on wealthy and corporations -- get the FED out of the

economic picture and put Congress back in charge of our economy --

and stop electing Democrats who speak for wealthy elites and corporations.

Btw, that's also true of our elected officials -- like Obama -- who give our

taxpayer dollars to RCC's "faith-based" organizations.

In fact, Obama has INCREASED the amounts Bush was giving them!!

[Raksha]

25. K & R - only one recommend right now, and that's mine.

I see the un-rec crowd has been working overtime on this thread, which in itself indicates that the OP touched a nerve...and is probably right.

[Raksha]

26. Well, that didn't last long.

By the time I got that last note posted my recommend had already been neutralized. I guess some people are allergic to unpleasant truths.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Factions round these parts are hardening

and at times it feels I am wearing a target anymore.

[defendandprotect]

48. Evidently quite a few come here to be protected from .... the news!

And reality --


:eyes:

[Bobbie Jo]

62. No...just the slanted variety.

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

68. Unfortunately, there are many here who want to be protected from liberal and

progressive news -- that's undeniable --

At this point, many here have Michael Moore on their enemies list because he

criticizes Obama!

Not to mention Jane Hamsher -- Fire Dog Lake

Tom Hayden --

Wm. Greider --

On and on -- they in every way want to come to DU to be protected from reality!


PS: And any news that is critical of Obama is "slanted" news to them!

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

73. Changing the subject by any chance .... ???

:rofl:

Try to debate the subject -- if you want to debate the moon landing,

go to 9/11 --

[Bobbie Jo]

76. !

Well...there's that. :rofl:

[DevonRex]

78. Seriously...

I cannot stop laughing about it.

[Bobbie Jo]

75. Much of the misinformation and half-truths that have passed

for "news" around here would put Faux to shame.

Believe it.

[defendandprotect]

77. Are you talking about Rahm Emmanuel's own words in his interview ....?

Unfortunately, Rahm Emmanuel's own words aren't a HOAX -- !!

[Catherina]

31. Rec'd n/t

[defendandprotect]

39. K&R ....

[yurbud]

54. If someone didn't see their evil in the years they controled all three branches of gov't,

it aint going to happen now.

[Karmadillo]

55. K&R

nt

[treestar]

56. Face facts, the Republicans got the House

No amount of "fighting" by the President will change that fact.

[patrice]

65. It's ALL about timing. Fighting him now, especially over shite WE should be doing for ourselves . .

ONLY insures that RepubliBaggers will take more power.

[SidDithers]

58. Unrec...nt

Sid

[treestar]

66. We have to face the fact they have one advantage

In a system that makes it difficult to change things. They don't want anything done. We do. That makes it easier for them.

So just whining on about backbone will have no effect. It's not some miraculous "backbone" on the part of the President or other leaders that will work. They won't have much political capital when we are constantly carping that they aren't good enough and that the other side is tougher and more powerful. It got us a Republican House, if you want to take responsibility for that.

[Codeine]

72. Unrec for defeatist flamebait. And for those damned dots. nt

[blindpig]

74. Gridlock is the people's best hope for the next two years. n/t

[xchrom]

80. Recommend