Is there any hope for democracy?

[RonReagan]

Here is something I've been thinking about. American politics is in a situation it's never been in before. The best example being that the most viewed and trusted news channel is a 24/7 propaganda machine whose message is clear and relentless. When roughly half the population is wrong about the most basic facts like what religion is the president and whether their own taxes gone up or down, is there any hope left that intelligent decisions can be made?

I'm afraid that technology and collective knowledge may be giving corporations so much power, that it's become routine for them to trick the population into fighting against their own self-interest. What would it take to buck this trend? Will it get worse and worse? Is there any chance of Obama's reelection in 2012?

[AngryAmish]

1. No. It is an unworkable system.

Republics can flourish.

Any democracy never works. Look at Athens during the Peloponnesian war. Guess who won? The Peloponnesians.

[HereSince1628]

14. Actually, just incompatible with unrestrained capitalism.

[AngryAmish]

16. We are a nation of 310 million people

you want us to vote on everything?

[Posteritatis]

19. I suppose direct democracy for everything would quickly reduce the voter pool, at least.. (nt)

[glinda]

2. Unless there is a way that truth and facts can have as accessible a role. Then no.

[Posteritatis]

3. (Insert Hyperbolic Reflexive Despair Talking Point #27-C) nt

[Uncle Joe]

4. Yes there is hope for democracy, primarily because of the Internet.

Obama will most likely be reelected in 2012, the Republican controlled House; will make it easy for him acting as his foil.

Thanks for the thread, RonReagen.

[BeFree]

5. Vote

We must get people to vote. The one singular moment for all of us to rise up and overcome is at the ballot box every two years.

This time a small minority of people voted and what did we get?

In 2008 a large minority went and voted and what did we get?

"It's the Vote, stupid."

BTW: RR, what is redtp?

[RonReagan]

8. I hope you're right

BeFree, I'd like to think you're right, but I'm not so sure. The last vote was heavily in favor of republicans. A very large percentage of the nonvoters would A) have to be in support of democrats and B) have to be willing to come out to vote next time around. I think the reality is that people were upset about the economy and just plain too misinformed to make a good decision.

redtp is the Republican Talking Point Generator website.

[BeFree]

10. Ok

If, say, we had a 90% turnout, do you think the crooks would win?

We had maybe a 30% turnout in this election and the crooks won.
The one thing people can do that would be different is go vote.

Actually, it is insane to not vote. Maybe that is why the country seems to be going insane?

[RonReagan]

15. I don't know

I don't know what the results would have been, but I wouldn't assume that they'd be any better. Why assume the 70% who didn't vote are the most informed? More importantly, you will never see a 90% turnout.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. No. But, we do get to vote for the politicians on the corporate payroll.

[marmar]

17. And wear the little "I voted" stickers and feel good.

[MrScorpio]

7. This is the problem...

We've damaged our public education so much it's to the point where we think that technology and collective knowledge (through the collective media) can substitute for it. That test scores are the final arbiter, that the creation of a consumer class is more important than a class of citizens. What ever happened to Civics?

Higher education is nothing more than a privilege for the monied classes and people who are willing to throw themselves into a sea of debt, cash cow for universities and colleges both straight and crooked and a screen for corporations to keep out the riff-raff.

Students aren't being taught to use critical thinking skills anymore...

If you show me someone, on any side, who's willing to change any of this then I'd say that that person stands a chance of fixing the problem.

Otherwise, expect more of the same.

[The2ndWheel]

13. Maybe that needs to be reversed

"We've damaged our public education so much it's to the point where we think that technology and collective knowledge (through the collective media) can substitute for it."

We think technology and collective knowledge can substitute for X, so we damage this or that as to allow for that substitution. Technological advancement is no longer a means, but seems to have become an end. It's the goal, by itself. Even if we don't need it, we do it.

[pampango]

9. Quote from Alexis de Tocqueville: A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist

as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

* From bondage to spiritual faith;
* From spiritual faith to great courage;
* From courage to liberty;
* From liberty to abundance;
* From abundance to complacency;
* From complacency to apathy;
* From apathy to dependence;
* From dependence back into bondage.
----------------------------------------------------
Seems that de Tocqueville didn't consider the possibility that "democracy will continue to exist until the time that" the elites learn that they can scare voters into voting the elites "generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who "scare them the most into bestowing more benefits of the public treasury on the elites, "with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship".

De Tocqueville wasn't exposed to fox news.

His eight stages of a nation's progress seem eerily appropriate today. The US seems to be in either the "from abundance to complacency" or "from complacency to apathy" stage right now.

[Tesha]

11. Nope.

Not while its sworn enemy, the Corporations, own
the media.

Tesha

[Tesha]

12. And "No, there is *NO* chance of Obama's re-election in 2012". (NT)

[Big Blue Marble]

18. The obstacles are great, but we must maintain hope.

Our democracy has cycled into a dismal state. Powerful elites have gained ascendancy by using
the current understanding of psychology and technology to confuse and mislead just enough people
to gain control. As we study history, we understand that while there is an ebb and flow to democratic
governments, the trend had been toward a great sharing of power with the people.

Yet the tension is always there. The power elites are always looking for ways to reassert their control
over the flow of wealth in order to amass great fortunes for themselves and amass power over others.

We live in such at time. In such a climate, it is easy to despair. Yet our responsibility is to the greater
vision of democracy for all, while knowing we will never see the perfection of this vision in our lifetimes.

As our ancestors held this vision for us, we must treasure it for future generations no matter how dim
the light becomes. This is the vision that will keep us focused, that will inspire us to create a better life
for all.

[marmar]

20. It's possible if people get off their a**es and demand it......

..... and I'm not talking about angry emails, or supporting a candidate or a protest march in DC every couple of years. Until people stop working and really bollocks up the system en masse and repeatedly, all those elected officials that we spend so much time and energy on will continue to treat us as useful idiots, and screw us over as soon as the election ends.

[TheWatcher]

21. At this point, No.

With Criminals running every aspect of Government, and said Government compromised by the influence of Corporations, and a Population that can't be bothered to care, fight back, or even be Free any longer, no, there is not.

It doesn't have to be this way, but for all the parties involved, that is the way they desperately seem to want it.

it is almost a fetish with this country to see itself destroyed.

The Last Days of Rome were Sane and Orderly compared to Modern Day America.

[apocalypsehow]

22. Why'd you get rid of the Fairness Doctrine???

:shrug: :nuke: :shrug: :evilfrown: :shrug:




...





Just joshin'...:hi: Welcome to DU!

[handmade34]

23. this is what FDR thought

"Unhappy events abroad have retaught us two simple truths about the liberty of a democratic people. The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any other controlling private power. The second truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if its business system does not provide employment and produce and distribute goods in such a way as to sustain an acceptable standard of living. Both lessons hit home. Among us today a concentration of private power without equal in history is growing."


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,759590,00.html

1938