Black caucus says it will allow Republicans

[defendandprotect]

Black caucus says it will allow Republicans

EXCERPTS ONLY .....

By BEN EVANS, Associated Press Writer Ben Evans, Associated Press Writer – 56 mins ago
WASHINGTON – The Congressional Black Caucus says it will allow two recently elected black Republicans to join the group if they ask.

The black caucus includes a handful of moderates but is mostly made up of liberals serving in safe Democratic districts. The addition of Republicans would likely shake up its weekly meetings and require its leaders to navigate around them to discuss strategy.

West, a former Army officer, said in an interview he's eager to steer the group away from "failing liberal social welfare policies that have caused the demise of the black community."

West said the black caucus must confront overwhelming issues in the African-American community including high teen pregnancy, incarceration and unemployment rates. Those are issues that require "competence and character," not the caucus' "monolithic voice that continues to promote victimization and dependence."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101109/ap_on_go_co/us_black_caucus_republicans





---------------------------------

It is not liberal policies which create oppression of the AA population --

and this up is down argument is typical GOP racist propaganda --

[The Wielding Truth]

1. 42 Dems - 2 Repubs from what I found online, propelled by Tea Party.

[defendandprotect]

2. T for 2 .... mischief making in black caucus?

[Codeine]

3. They won't ask to join. Their teabagger sponsor would shit themselves.

[Freddie Stubbs]

7. West has already said he would join:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2010/11/allen-west-says-hell-join-the-congressional-black-caucus-unless-it-decides-to-change-the-name.html

[Codeine]

14. I stand correctified. And a bit shocked. nt

[Kalyke]

41. I hope they explain to him that sexism is just as bad as racism.

[Bucky]

4. Maybe they're hoping if they get him in a room alone for a meeting, they can cure him.

it's a well known fact I just made up that being forced to sit face to face with other human beings automatically triggers your logic hormones. With enough logic stimulation to the cerebral cortex and a subliminally encoded program forcing the Republican to "act responsibly in public," perhaps his spiritual disease can be cured. And why stop with just one Goober? Maybe their plan is to, member by member, have a Republican deprogramming intervention with each of the salvageable souls within the Republican caucus. By Christmas, the Democrats could be back in the majority.

[RZM]

5. Was Watts in the caucus?

I don't know but I kind of doubt it. If this happens though I'll bet the presence of these two new Congressmen at meetings would be . . . wait for it . . . the elephant(s) in the room!

:hide:

[Ter]

18. Pretty sure Watts asked and was denied

n/t

[RZM]

20. I guess according to JC he opted not to

Because he doesn't like them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Black_Caucus

The wiki entry makes it sound like he would have been allowed in.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[alanquatermass]

10. Thanks! One week in and I am still getting my "sea legs" LOL!

Lot of interesting threads and opinions. Some I agree with, and some (like this one) I may have a few questions about. But the level of discourse on DU is unbelievable! I feel a bit out of my depth, IQ-wise, but am doing my best to hang in.

Wish there were more hours in the day, LOL!!!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

13. They weren't wishing you well

That's a DU code of saying they think you're not going to be here long.

Just letting you know.

[alanquatermass]

17. Say what now?!

...Holy shit. Well, I am not one to just "kiss 'em and quit 'em," if that's why they think. (Do a lot of people drop by, sample the site for a few days, and then just leave???)

[maxsolomon]

30. "sampling" is what they call it these days?

[blondeatlast]

61. The oldies but goodies! I had so many back in the day... nt

[immoderate]

32. Don't neglect the doctrine of multiple causalities...

Moynihan is usually listed as a progressive. This opinion of his is generally taken out of context.

He was criticizing a policy which only gave aid if there was no man in the house. It was bad policy. It broke up families.

There are some people who drop by, take a couple of shots at liberal ideas, and go on to other interests. That happens.

--imm

[blondeatlast]

60. Generally not voluntarily. nt

[Courtesy Flush]

55. In his defense

Some programs actually were destructive. AFDC was terrible, as it required children to have only one parent in order to receive benefits. Nowadays, welfare does not have this requirement. In fact, the new welfare programs offer concrete services to help put people to work. I won't say that the problem has been fixed, but welfare has moved out of the enabling game.

The poor (of any color) have been held down by the Left and Right. Trickle-Down devastated low-income people, and poor neighborhoods are targeted by predatory businesses like rent-to-own outfits, and payday loan companies. A lot of wealth is being created off the poor, but it's going to people who already have money. Wealth trickles up, and always has.

Both sides have harmed the poor, but I feel that there's only "criminal intent" on one side.

[KamaAina]

9. The reports of the black community's demise have been greatly exaggerated

Does it have problems? Sure, especially among the impoverished underclass -- just like the rest of America. But "demise"? Puh-leeze.

[alanquatermass]

11. You're right! "Demise" was a crazy choice of words...

-- no question about it.

[defendandprotect]

23. Amazing, isn't it...!! AA have survived slavery, 100 years of Segregation, Inc. .....

and all the oppression that "whites" could throw at them --

and have still survived with dignity and intelligence while even now

they are constantly harassed, underemployed and imprisoned!!

How many "whites" would have survived that?

[RZM]

27. Not sure what you mean by survived

Do you mean physically survived? Survived as a group with a cohesive identity? People of all hues all over the world have been doing both of those things in the face of oppression for a long, long time . . . long before any Europeans or Africans set foot in the New World. And yes, some have even been white . . . just take a look at the history of East/Central Europe in the 20th century for starters.

[Chulanowa]

31. I'll be honest with you man...

I'm a Native American myself. And as bad as we've had it, we're still behind African-Americans in terms of how much shit was delivered us. Two hundred years of war followed by being left on our own in nature preserves is bad, but compared to the four hundred years behind African-Americans, and given that there honestly IS still a movement to backslide what gains they've managed in the last fifty years?

Yeah, sorry, they have a right to be proud that they're still here and still keeping it all together. And yes, they had it worse than pretty much any group you could name. The plight of Europe's Jews and Roma could be compared, if you really want to compare. But if I hear one more white person come back with "Yeah wel lthe Irish and italians had it hard, too!" I just may slap 'em.

[Number23]

50. You already know what I'm going to post, don't you??

:loveya:

I understand and sincerely appreciate what you're saying. But I do think that in terms of mistreatment at the hands of European settlers and the US government, I would have to say that black Americans and Native Americans are about neck and neck in the "treated like shit" category. One of the reasons that our communities have always seemed to have such a bond (at least in the Southeastern part of the US).

[Brewman_Jax]

59. Good point

though, I agree with #23, it's pretty much neck-and-neck. Forced migrations of native Americans (I met an Apache whose ancestors survived a forced march to Alabama and back to the Desert Southwest) and reservations with no supplies nor support are as bad as Jim Crow segregation and no legal rights and protections.

The European immigrants were not stripped of their legal and civil rights, so that's not even near the ballpark, much less in it.

[Number23]

73. Good points, Brew.

And don't forget that for a brief period, the settlers tried to enslave the Natives.

[RZM]

62. I would agree that, especially in America, no European immigrant group's experience is comparable

For the record of course, I never indicated that. But I'm speaking more from a world historical perspective and with the myriad of examples we have of slave societies, oppression, war, genocides etc., it's tough to rank them all against one another. Also, slavery itself in the Americas varied according to geography. As I'm sure you know, in the Caribbean and Brazil in particular, it was often worse (and resistance was much more successful and widespread as well, with 'maroon' communities sometimes lasting generations). My point was that a lot of people around the world have had it bad for a long time now -- though sometimes comparing experiences is 'apples and oranges,' as it were, there's also often a lot to gain from a comparative perspective.

If you're not familiar with it, here's a classic work that compares slavery in the United States with serfdom in the Russian Empire:

http://www.amazon.com/Unfree-Labor-American-Slavery-Russian/dp/0674920988/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289403993&sr=8-1

I highly recommend this book to anybody interested in these questions. It's very well done and shows the best that the comparative perspective has to offer - you learn a lot about what each system was and what it wasn't through comparing them with one another.

[defendandprotect]

37. "Survived" versus "whites" having almost completely wiped out the Native American ...

Of course, the Native American being the occupants of this land and "pagans" were

probably scored as the larger threat to the "whites" seeking conquest of land and

natural resources belonging to others.

"Survived" as in the sense of their standing tall and still being 15% physically

larger than we are and seemingly stronger in body and mind!

"Survived" as still being recognizable AA, which provides a way for racists to profile

them on our highways. Recognizable in our court system and in our prisons as distinctly

non-"white."

Rather, Western Europeans CREATED the murderous conditions in much of Europe -- the religious

wars -- the wars on Jews and other "pagans." And the filthy and diseased conditions --

physical and legal which most average non-Royal "whites" lived under.

Long before what Europeans called "civilization" Africans thrived in their own cities and

civilizations. And the only way that Africans came to this nation were as slaves brought here

by "whites."

"Whites" have not endured anything on a scale of what AAs have endured in this nation -- certainly

NOT as a class of people -- and engineered by elite "whites."

We might also look to our own violent history -- The Civil War -- which resulted from the filthy

compromise that the Founders made with slavery. A battle by elite "whites" to continue on with

the slave trade, even to the point of destroying their own states -- and their own countrymen!







http://biega.com/history20.html

[alanquatermass]

53. Actually, I agree with a lot of that. My fiance, who is black (she hates "African American")...

-- thinks that Americans of White European descent should be required to give a portion of their salary (she says 20% annually, which seems steep to me, but whatever) to a national restitution fund (she also hates the word "reparations"; long story) which would provide for the various needs of historically oppressed and disenfranchised people. So not only blacks, mind you, but also gays, Native Americans, and descendants of interred Japanese.

I MOSTLY agree with her, although I admit I've gone back and forth about it.

[blondeatlast]

57. That story sounds strangely familiar. nt

[Brewman_Jax]

58. I saw that, too

it wasn't just me.

[alanquatermass]

66. Yeah, she ain't alone, that's for sure!

The idea is well-intentioned, and noble... and a little bit pie-in-the-sky.

[RZM]

64. You're not really serious here, are you?

Apologies if you are

[alanquatermass]

67. She is dead friggin' serious...

-- and has emailed our Congressman (Henry Waxman) about it 3 or 4 different times over the years.

Now, does it have a chance in hell of even being INTRODUCED on the floor of the House?

(IMO) Probably not.

[RZM]

63. Well . . .

I think you might benefit from a wider historical perspective when examining some of these questions and issues. I'm not saying that you don't have one already, but there's a lot of historical information that does cast some complexity into the perennial question of 'who suffered more.' For instance the Vietnamese (yes I know, not technically white), endured roughly 1000 years of Chinese domination in the classical and intermediate eras, yet still emerged at the end with their culture and language more or less intact and in fact were some of the world's earliest pioneers in forming and maintaining 'national identity' in a modern sense (which is really a very recent concept in most places in the world, including Europe).

Also, the situation of Slavic peoples living near the frontiers of Christendom and Islam is another example of a group that dealt with constant challenges for quite some time -- and slavery was a big part of that, as Middle Eastern slave societies had a constant demand for fresh blood (they took plenty from Africa as well). Though slavery here was not the same in that context as in the early modern Americas, it's certainly worth noting. Russia, for instance, endured Mongol domination for roughly two and a half centuries and even after finally wresting themselves from the tribute system, frequently came into conflict with Mongol successor states (who had converted to Islam in the 14th century). One Crimean Tatar raid in 1571, for instance, netted over 100,000 slaves alone, if the contemporary sources are to be believed. Some authors have even argued that the constant drain of manpower through enslavement and the subsequent manumission payments drained Russian resources and in part account for its reputation as relatively 'backward,' at least when compared with some of their European rivals.

The point here is that it's usually not beneficial to reduce suffering to a racial issue, at least not in a world perspective. Obviously few would argue that immigrants from Europe fared worse in the US than natives or slaves, but the US is only a small part of the wider world, with a very young history and before launching into arguing 'maximums' when it comes to the US, it's sometimes beneficial to put things into a wider and deeper perspective.

[Cid_B]

71. Holy crap that is racist...

EOM

[Phil The Cat]

12. The answers are:

1. Free abortion on demand! No parental notification or authorization required!
2. Occupational Assignments Office - Jobs are assigned to every able bodied person via a color-blind data bank, as opposed to individuals making selections based on improper criteria (race / sex / orientation / etc.)!
3. Full legalization of recreational drugs, and pardoning and release of all non-violent incarcerated individuals!
4. One-time "fresh start" payment by the government of all outstanding child support amounts!
5. Strict enforcement of civil rights laws - great chance for the government to take control of THOUSANDS of businesses and rental properties through confiscation and re-purposing! The resources could then be used to 'catch up' historically oppressed peoples!

[alanquatermass]

15. Agree with 1, 2 and 3... and agree, in principal on 4... (it had better be "one-time"!!!)

...but #5 seems problematic. The Gov't does fine with Public Services (Police, Fire Dept., Public Works, Military) but when the Gov't moves into the Private Sector the results are usually disasterous. You may've heard the expression, "Close enough for Government work"? Well, that line is a damn cliche for a REASON.

And I'm not sure what you mean by the phrase, "The resources could then be used to 'catch up' historically oppressed peoples!"

So I think I agree with 75-80% of your proposals -- especially 1-3.

[Codeine]

16. That's a load of shit. nt

[defendandprotect]

24. US should make vasectomies free --

We don't need jobs "assigned" -- even blindly --

I'll go with the legalization of drugs -- and the pardons!

And with any other thoughts that bring true justice to our nation --

[RZM]

25. Oh you rascal . . .

Almost had me for a second ;)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

36. Please tell me you're not serious?

I mean, #1 is a sensible idea, the legalisation of cannabis is long overdue, and I don't know enough about #4 to dismiss it (although I'm sceptical of it), but the idea of assigning jobs via a data bank is just nuts, because it will prevent discrimination not merely on grounds of race or sex but also on grounds of ability; the last thing America needs is more heroin and cocaine addicts; and the government taking control of thousands of businesses and properties would be an unmitigated economic and constitutional catastrophe of biblican proportions.

The solution to reducing racial inequality in the USA is very simple: invest more in poor schools.

[Phil The Cat]

46. Economic Status Quo?

The material resources of the United States should belong to ALL the citizens on the United States, not to a small number of connected individuals! The management of our food, minerals, manucaturing, energy, healtyh, transportation, and other essential goods and services should be accountable to the whole of the United States, and not to stockholders and boards of directors!

As for the doomsday you envisioned: Make sure the laws are in place to control the (temporary) chaos, and put the right people and systems in charge!

As for the jobs bank - it's not a flawless system - it would require constant tweaking - but it would be far more fair and colorblind than what we have know! Ability IS a legitimate criteria - having a fantastic tan or loving someone you are "not supposed to" aren't!

As for child support amnesty: That is one of the biggest things holding AA men down and putting them in jail. It is one thing to go after some rich professional for child support, but the black man in America is already financially and legally handicapped. The strong arm push for child support brings destruction while providing very little real support to children!

[defendandprotect]

21. GOP racist propaganda ... as I made clear in my comments on the OP ....

Moynihan was a liberal?

Hardly -- !!

There are increasing numbers of women having children on their own -- "white" and "black"

and "tan" and otherwise. Evidently, that's something YOU have a problem with -- not me.

And, I'll repeat this for you again ....

It is not liberal policies which create oppression of the AA --

it is elite/capitalistic policies of exploitation which create that oppression --

not only of AA, but of humans of every color!

EXPLOITATION is the basis of elitism and capitalism --


We have Global Warming because of this insane EXPLOITATION of nature, natural resources and

animal life --

Capitalism is suicidal -- we need to move on!

[Chulanowa]

29. Oh look, a "progressive" talking out their ass about black people

Haven't seen that before! :rofl:

The welfare policies have nothing to do with it. I suggest you actually research the subject - there's no shortage of material, the question is can you overcome your white fright to research it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Pepperoni?

[blondeatlast]

56. I'm in the mood for Hawiia'an. nt

[Luminous Animal]

35. Where did Moynihan say that? As far as I know,

Moynihan believed that increased welfare rates for children in single parent households were a measure of a community's problems (joblessness, inadequate educational facilities & options, and crime). In other words, welfare was not responsible for dependency but lack of opportunity was responsible for the increase of welfare recipients.

And, point of information...Moynihan was sick over Clinton's welfare "reform."

"If this administration wishes to go down in history as one that abandoned, eagerly abandoned, the national commitment to dependent children, so be it. I would not want to be associated with such an enterprise, and I shall not be."
http://econ161.berkeley.edu/politics/danielpatrickmoynihansspee.html

I'm not stymied at all. Institute a policy of guaranteed income that would enable adequate food, clothing & shelter for all, and stability will follow.

[defendandprotect]

39. Exactly .... great post ---

"Stability," however, is a threat to capitalism/elites --

as are the safety nets which they want destroyed before they they reduce us all

to poverty and slavery!

United Nations Human Rights Manifesto = Food, Shelter, Clothing -- and medical care!!

All basic human rights -- as we all innately understand.

Terrific post -- :)

[Recursion]

48. The '65 report did point out some perverse incentives in AFDC...

...that were mostly fixed on an administrative basis by the 70s.

And, yeah, DPM was no fan of the "reform" path we went down.

[Luminous Animal]

51. I read the report earlier today. I was strappped for time and I had to skim through it...

Why don't you show me the parts that pointed out perverse incentives?

[Recursion]

54. Good catch. I had confused the Moynihan report with Kristol's response to it

http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/moynchapter2.htm

Moynihan considered the "startling increase" of African American families on AFDC and the high rate of spouse/child abandonment as two separate symptoms; it was Kristol who tried to link them. (And, at any rate, even Kristol's argument was obsolete by the late 70s.)

[Jamastiene]

38. Wow, you just shit and fell back in it.

:popcorn:

[alanquatermass]

43. Yeah, I may have. I thought D.P. Moynihan actually said that...

-- but I have been wrong before (God knows!)

My bad.

[Recursion]

45. Moynihan's report may not be the best thing to misquote early in a DU career

It gets misquoted and misapplied enough as it is.

[Skittles]

44. LOLOL

racism from fucking racist repukes is the biggest contributor to "the demise of the black community"

[Recursion]

47. Delete

Nevermind

[TheKentuckian]

52. You should consider the way the policies were constructed.

The system often demands that there be no spouse both directly and by the virtue of any piddling income throwing people off and then there is no medical card, those food stamps are cut, HUD prices you out, and on and on.

Same way transitioning to work was and I guess to an extent, is punished. Took a little job? Well...that income buts you above the guidelines and you less the kid's and your medical. Daycare and that family PPO eats up most of your check? Sorry can't help you.

It isn't the aid that is pushing those numbers but the fucked up way the policies are delivered.

I've know people that got divorced to keep the health care on the kids (though they were white, but it's the same deal).

Hubby pulling down a big 9.00 an hour just don't have enough juice to pay the premium and keep the homefires burning, the little money only spreads so far and if wifey works waiting tables and has a bad day they might not cover daycare.

We have programs to help but we are always even more concerned about people getting over.
We need to be first about the welfare of our people and encourage success and stability rather than effectively punishing them. We need a real safety net so the bottom isn't a hole.

[Tatiana]

65. Astronomical out-of-wedlock births among the "black community?"

Much of the increase in unmarried births has occurred among parents who are living together but are not married, cohabitation arrangements that tend to be less stable than marriages, studies show.

The pattern has been particularly pronounced among Hispanic women, climbing 20 percent from 2002 to 2006, the most recent year for which racial breakdowns are available. Eleven percent of unmarried Hispanic women had a baby in 2006, compared with 7 percent of unmarried black women and 3 percent of unmarried white women, according to government data drawn from birth certificates.

Titled “Changing Patterns of Nonmarital Childbearing in the United States,” the report was released by the National Center for Health Statistics, part of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Out-of-wedlock births are also rising in much of the industrialized world: in Iceland, 66 percent of children are born to unmarried mothers; in Sweden, the share is 55 percent. (In other societies, though, the phenomenon remains rare — just 2 percent in Japan, for example.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/health/13mothers.html

[bobbolink]

19. "failing liberal social welfare policies that have caused the demise of the black community."

I would certainly hope that AA leaders push back against that spin...

Clearly, they are so far out in front of the language, that all Dems can do now is defend.... :(

Dems chose to let that happen, but unfortunately, the ones who pay the price for that are those of us with nothing.

[bliss_eternal]

68. sadly, too many bought into...

...reagans, "welfare queen" meme during his reign of terror. a lot of the right wing just seems to accept it, as the truth about any and every person of color. pitiful, i know.

(sigh).

[bobbolink]

70. You're suggesting African Americans "many bought into reagans, "welfare queen" meme "?

That would be rather strange.

And what I said is that Dems didn't keep up with the lies being told.

I know it is very difficult to accept that Dems weren't totally the victims, that they played a role in letting this happen.

Or maybe you were responding to another post?

[bliss_eternal]

72. no, not at all...

...sorry for the misunderstanding.

i was speaking of a large portion of the right wing, w/exception of aa's--as the one's who bought into the lie of welfare queens. however, there are som right wing aa's that seem to have weird issues and beliefs, that i can't even begin to explain.

for examples think of clarence thomas, alan keyes, larry elder, etc.
while they may know (intellectually) that there were no "welfare queens", i could see any one of them buying into the idea of, "lazy aa's, seeking a handout...." in regard to welfare, and social programs. sadly, this kind of thinking would seem to align them w/a big portion of the right wing population.

i agree, it would be great if black democratic leaders, addressed the negative spin mentioned. unfortunately, while they have tokens like thomas, elder and keyes in their corner to point to, and say they aren't wrong...:shrug:...dismantling the spin won't go very far. :( it only takes a few (sadly).

i hope this makes my thoughts on the issue, and what i was attempting to respond to, clearer. :) i attempted to agree. i'm just loopy, from lack of sleep--and not being as clear as i could be. :crazy::hi:

[Winterblues]

22. Is this West fellow the same one that says he has a higher security clearance than Obama?

Pretty much takes from his credibility if you ask me...

[joeybee12]

26. This guy West is proof assholes come in all colors...nt

[defendandprotect]

40. GOP can find a "Judas" of any race or gender to send in to do the dirty work ... Clarence Thomas #1-

Former SC Justice Thurgood Marshall alerted us to that as he was retiring --

and journalists were asking whether he thought that Poppy Bush would consider

his seat a 'black' seat .....

Justice Thurgood Marshall said:

"The color of a snake is not important. What's important about a snake is

whether or not it bites!"

[bliss_eternal]

69. good quote.

:thumbsup: very true.

[Chulanowa]

28. Ah, the "character" argument

It's your fault you live in crushing poverty because you have poor character!

I'd be tempted to punch West in the mouth for that.

[defendandprotect]

42. Love your post -- !!

and I'm anti-violence!!

:)

[Brewman_Jax]

34. Republicans have never been disqualified for membership

but one can count the number of black repubs in Congress on one hand.

[craigmatic]

49. I'm guessing they're trying to influence the new guys and make them moderate.