Teabagger "Patriot"'s lie in local paper debunked. Claimed 3/4 of Founding

[AlinPA]

Fathers were pastors. The teabagger who was interviewed by the paper recently is the leader of the local morons calling themselves "Patriots". The author of this LTTE is a highly respected leader of the community and former state legislator.

Letter to the Editor

Published: Tuesday, November 9, 2010
“I mean, the original Founding Fathers — three-fourths of them were pastors.”

Really? That assertion in Tea Party "Patriot" Tom Smith’s Gazette interview (Nov. 1) surprised me. It would also have surprised the Founding Fathers.

However you define the Founders, almost none of them were pastors. Of the 55 framers of the Constitution (74 were named by the states, but only 55 came to the convention), none were ministers. Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, only one, John Witherspoon, was a minister. Of 20 other prominent Americans often classed as Founding Fathers, none was a minister.

His false statement is used to support his questionable claim that “the Constitution was designed by God, or close to it.” Actually, the Constitution, and the Declaration, were designed by lawyers. More than 30 lawyers served in the constitutional convention. The Declaration of Independence was written by a committee of five: Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, Robert Livingston and Roger Sherman. Franklin was the only non-lawyer; Jefferson is credited with being the principal author; 24 of the signers were lawyers. Twelve of the other 20 Founding Fathers were lawyers.

Somehow, the truthful statement that half of the Founding Fathers were lawyers just doesn’t imply the same divine inspiration, does it?

The Framers themselves left God out of the Constitution entirely, recognizing religion only in the First Amendment, which protects religious and other liberties. They were not working to create a moral document, but a legal one: a Constitution that would create a stronger central government.

Smith and his group seem to want to use the Constitution selectively as a support for their personal beliefs, a function it was not designed or intended for.

Jefferson himself believed of the Constitution “Time and changes … may require corresponding modifications” and laughed at those “who look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence.”

If, as Smith says, the Patriots seek to educate the public, they should begin by educating themselves. Making obviously false public statements is not a good way for them to gain credibility."

(signed)

[Ikonoklast]

1. That is a great letter. Facts, ands stuff.

Teabaggers juat make crap up, and hope no one calls them on it.

[Scuba]

9. It's an empiracally proved fact that 63.5% ....

... of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[Kookaburra]

2. What I don't get is why this clown's lies weren't

debunked by the so-called journalist who interviewed him?

[AlinPA]

13. The guy that interviewed him for the small town paper is very stupid. I know him

personally.

[Brewman_Jax]

3. Teabagger revisionism

if they don't like the facts, they'll just re-write them. :crazy:

[jody]

4. According to one credible historian, none of the first 10 presidents were Christian although Jackson

became a Christian after he left office.

Note there is a major distinction between belief in a supernatural deity or nature's god and those who profess belief in a God and the attendant Trinity etc.

[gratuitous]

5. And three weeks from now, someone will say it again

And three weeks after that, again. The process will be repeated until the lie has ingrained itself into the political consciousness, and will soon no longer even be discussed. A new fact will have been born.

The madness, as usual, has a method, and that's to create some kind of equivalency between the Constitution and the Bible, and argue for a literal or "fundamentalist" reading of each. One of the major problems, of course, will be that the folks giving us the "literal" interpretation of the Constitution will be no more knowledgeable about English than they are about ancient Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic. So instead of a "literal" reading, we'll get their highly selective, cherry-picked version of what it all means, which will be presented as Original Truth.

The lie won't die on its own. It has to be met every time, shown to be in error every time, and patiently exposed as snake oil. Every time. If we let it go by even once, the lie gathers strength. And there's no guarantee that for every time the lie is told, a follow up rebuttal will be published. It was published this time, saints be praised, but will someone take the time and trouble to do a full rebuttal every time the lie (or a portion of the lie) is told? And if they do, will the paper run it again?

[wakemewhenitsover]

18. Sad and excellent point. n/t

[Enthusiast]

23. Excellent points.

Yeah, we keep hearing this garbage from the right wing religious extremists. If we listen to them, that is. They have thoroughly convinced their gullible followers.

[malaise]

6. ReTHUGS and Teapublicans

just make up shit as they go along. They don't give a flying fuck - they just repeat it until those who refuse to read spread ignorance. If you don't believe me, ask Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. The amount of shit made up about them should blow most minds.

[joeybee12]

7. A great letter...knr

[grantcart]

8. Witherspoon was the only pastor to sign the D of I and he was a champion

of free thought which he used to build Princeton into a great college when he served as President.


Only Adams was a conventional Christian. All the rest were radical deists, including Washington, Jefferson, Franklin.


I believe Madison discovered conservative Christianity long after the revolution at the same time he discovered how important the rich were to stabilize a society and counter the reforms that the other fathers risked their lives for.

[devilgrrl]

19. Isn't that Reese Witherspoon's great great great great grand-father?

I know she's related to someone historic.

[fifthoffive]

27. Adams

Although raised a Congregationalist, Adams became a Unitarian as an adult and rejected the Christian belief in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus. Unitarians are not generally considered Christians, and were not considered Christians in Adams's day. He was not, as reported in some places, an atheist. Neither did he believe in a god who was interested in or interfered in human lives. His beliefs were strongly influenced by the Deists at Harvard when he attended college.

He could, based on his reported beliefs, be called a Deist, though I doubt he called himself that.

[robertpaulsen]

10. The word that comes to mind is: SMACKDOWN!!! n/t

[haele]

11. When Laz and I went to Mt. Vernon a couple weeks ago, we did the house tour -

In "Washington's Bedroom", there was a bible on what was identified as Martha's chair. A father with a "Thomas Paine University Alumni" tee-shirt on was going on and on about "was that the Bible George Washington read every night?"...the answer - we don't know about George, but this belonged to Martha.
It was well know and written about by contemporaries that even though George attended church with Martha, he rarely did so whenever he was not with her, and never hung around for Communion.

Haele

[pokerfan]

12. There's also the No Religious Test Clause in Article VI

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

Seems odd that God would put that in... ;)

[whistler162]

14. Where Pastors or owned Pastures?

[AsahinaKimi]

15. Seems to me

Only an idiot would make up a story about the founding fathers being pastors.. oh, wait!...

[w8liftinglady]

16. great letter...thanks for educating your neighbors

[donheld]

17. From Indiana gazette

http://www.indianagazette.com/articles/2010/11/09/news/doc4cd85134a5e76169953589.txt

[garybeck]

20. IT WOULD BE helpful to have a link to the original claim

but I can't seem to find one

[Contrary1]

21. Here's the clown in his own words:

He says he is a Democrat. :rofl:

"...Question: With the principles you talk about — support of the Constitution, against abortion — is it fair to assume your members are Republicans or a little farther to the right of Republicans?

Answer: Chauncey, I’m a Democrat. I became a Democrat when I was 18 years old. John F. Kennedy had not been assassinated too long before that. And today, in my humble belief, John Kennedy would be right of most Republicans.

On a personal note, I am a Democratic committeeman. I ran this year. That’s another thing our group did, we had 20-some people run and get on these local committees to get our voice in there.

But boy, oh boy, that first meeting I went to, the Armstrong County Democrats, was enlightening. I was up front. I have a lot of faults, but dishonesty is not one of them. And I informed them of who I was, I told them that I was a conservative Democrat — I am right of Reagan. And I’m here to find out what happened to my party.

And there was some good conversation there.

But in our group, I can never remember of anyone asking anyone, “What party are you affiliated with?” It’s just a question that’s never asked.

They’re all coming there for the same reason, for love of this country, and our belief that the Constitution was absolutely designed by God or close to it. I mean, the original Founding Fathers — three fourths of them were pastors."

The rest: http://www.indianagazette.com/articles/2010/11/01/news/doc4ccee9958e5b6569561555.txt

[dmr]

22. He's a Democrat? E-gads!

and he needs to find out what happened to his party? JFK would be a Republican today? Reagan would be left of him?
:crazy:
Not only does he not know history, he doesn't know much of anything!

And, a bunch of them got elected? YIKES!
:scared:

[LLStarks]

24. Back in the 18th century, "seminary" meant college, not "religious learning" as the Teabaggers think

[gratuitous]

25. Also, the literalist fundamentalist strain of Christianity is a very recent invention

It didn't really take root in the United States until the 1920s, though there are antecedents in the decades before that. What passes for literal biblical interpretation nowadays, and presents itself as The Truth, would have been dismissed out of hand by 18th century disciples of the Enlightenment as so much ignorant blather.

[myrna minx]

26. K&R n/t

[mistertrickster]

28. That's interesting. I had heard Patrick Henry "give me liberty or death" was a pastor.

Turns out, he was NOT.

On edit--he was a not so successful business man, later politician.

[Scurrilous]

29. Kick

:kick: