Continuing the tax cut, selling out on SS; I just don't see how I could support Obama again.

[Atman]

Just sayin'. There's got to be some line, and the Republicans are always drawing it. Democrats are always meekly apologizing for almost thinking of crossing it. It's got to stop. I still support him, but I'll give serious consideration to Democratic challenger in 12 if Obama doesn't fight this bullshit.

[pacalo]

1. Has Obama said that he's going to cut SS?

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

5. ....And by the way, Ms. Greggs,

Whar's YER certifikit??

[NanceGreggs]

14. Please, Mr. Cliffordu, sir ...

I can explain my certifikitashun, or lack thereof, if you'll allow me.

I am a US citizen who admittedly resides in Soviet Canuckistan - and realize that the foregoing admission precludes me from commenting on what takes place in my own country on DU.

I accept full responsibility for the fact that I am politically active as Democrat - votin' and all - but recognize that my use of the gratuitous "U" in words like neighbour and honour give me away as a subversive traitour (again, those unnecessary "U"s have become ingrained habit!) intent on the destruction of my homeland by virtue of being a Democrat, and admitting same on a Democratic website.

I hereby promise to amend my ways and get on-board by REC'ing all anti-Obama/anti-Dem posts, and NEVER questioning the sources cited, nor the motives of those who post them.

As definitive proof of my certifikitashun, please watch for my next OP - entitled "Obama Refuses to Opine on His Wearing of Mandals - What's He Trying to Hide?"

If THAT don't get it, it ain't in town.

[cliffordu]

28. Well...As long as YOU are willing to change what you believe in.......wait....

:rofl:

I want to emigrate. Will you adopt me? Ask JeffR. I don't eat much and both me and my new kitty Chester the Molester are wormed and have our shots. Well...he does, for sure.....


c

[NanceGreggs]

32. The fact that you have ...

... a gratuitous "U" at the end of your name will go a long way in convincing the Ministry of Immigration that you are sincere in your desire to assimilate into Canuckistan society.

I would advise referring to your pet as "Chesteur the Molesteur" in all formal applications for permanent residence here - which, BTW, will make him eligible for residency status in Quebec - what with sounding francaise and all.

:rofl:

[cliffordu]

33. Welll....

BWAHA AH AHAHAHAH AHahhah ahah

:rofl: :bounce:

Chesteur sez he cannot wait to meet you.......

[NanceGreggs]

37. JeffR and I ...

... await your arrival - plans have been set in motion on your behalf.

Democrats are welcome here - and supporting Obama is not considered a deportable offense. In fact, it is far more socially acceptable than it is on certain (unnamed) websites.

[cliffordu]

38. I shore know about

some of THEM websites, fer sher.....

[NanceGreggs]

39. I know you do ...

... :rofl:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

75. SOVIET Canuckistan?

Is that what western Canadian conservatives call their well-regulated society, which was spared a banking crisis, didn't invade Iraq, and does not know the meaning of the term "medical bankruptcy"?

If that's "Soviet," I'll take it any day.

[NanceGreggs]

82. The term "Soviet Canuckistan" ...

... originated on The Daily Show, I believe, during the healthcare debates.

As for what "western Canadian conservatives" call anything, I wouldn't know. I live in Toronto, a stronghold of liberal voters.

[cliffordu]

83. ....And commies, apparently.....

:rofl:

[NanceGreggs]

87. Ooops!

I've been corrected. The term "Soviet Canuckistan" was coined by Pat Buchanan.

Jon Stewart went to town with the term on his show later that same day, and that's why I connected it with him.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Atman]

9. Nice smarm, Nance. But YES.

When Obama's spokesman announces they're giving in, you know full well they're giving in. I see no recent history which suggests they'll actually fight on this. Of course, I could be just as wrong as you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9533695&mesg_id=9533695

[Hawkowl]

25. I doubt you could be that wrong

Obama has given in on EVERY, SINGLE, ISSUE. I believe I understand his campaign message of Hope. Hope as in that's all we are going to get. No action, no moral stands, no coherent ethical framework, just Hope the hell everything turns out o.k. because he is a spineless, helpless....

[boppers]

29. Obama has negotiated on EVERY, SINGLE, ISSUE. Because he has to.

Let me know when his agenda has a 2/3rds majority in Congress.

[Hawkowl]

31. Yeah how did other presidents ever manage?

Boo hoo! Obama doesn't have a 67% Congress who worship the ground he walks on. NEWSFLASH! Only George Washington was that popular, yet virtually every, other president has done better. He doesn't compromise, he pushes for what he believes in, like Romney care--as he admitted.

The catfood commission didn't appoint itself. He is a corporatist sell out. He makes the DLC look like raving commies.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boppers]

43. When was Social Security privatized? (It wasn't).

W needed a super-majority to enact the sweeping changes he wanted.

Those sweeping changes failed, or were negotiated to things less than his ambitions.

[treestar]

69. Even the Decider couldn't get everything he wanted!

Like he said he thought it would be easier if he was a dictator.

Too many here think Obama has what the Decider thought should be his powers.

[inna]

41. Certainly makes Bill Clinton look like a raging progressive, that's for sure.

[boppers]

45. Clinton who brought us DADT and DOMA and NAFTA?

Which one of those three would you call progressive?

[Marr]

46. Which one of those things has Obama pushed to get rid of?

And I don't mean a sentence here or there. You are arguing that Obama is a progressive, correct?

[boppers]

49. Obama has pushed to get rid of DADT, and "review" NAFTA. meh.

I'm not arguing that Obama is very progressive, though, I'm arguing that Clinton wasn't very progressive.

[inna]

50. meh indeed. get ready for NAFTA on steroids (you might applaud it, for all i know,

but... what the fuck ever.)

[boppers]

51. I grew up in a border state.

I'm not protectionist, and don't care if we have to learn a few languages.

[treestar]

71. Well someone argued Clinton looked more progressive

:rofl:

Clinton signs DADT
Obama tries to get rid of it

Clinton is the more progressive. :rofl:

4>4000 too!

[Bandit]

65. Do yoiu have any idea what DADT replaced?

IMO it was one of Clinton's most progressive stances..It almost destroyed his political capital.

[treestar]

72. So wouldn't that make Obama even more progressive?

Do the math.

[Bandit]

96. What math are you talking about?

Clinton tried to eliminate any policy against gays, and he was beaten down and had to accept DADT. It wasn't what he started out to obtain. Obama doesn't seem to want to do anything at all but talk..In fact his Administration is taking active steps to keep it in place.. Obama I have learned is not to be trusted at all.. He will talk for years about how tax cuts for the wealthy are destroying our country and then allows them to remain intact, and the same applies to DADT and DOMA. Obama is all talk and when he does take action it usually is on the side of the Republicans and Big Business.

[treestar]

67. They were in the same boat and compromised the same way

Why is it such a problem when Obama does it? What is different about the 44th President that he should somehow have more power than the first 43?

[coti]

35. NO WE CAN'T! NO WE CAN'T! NO WE CAN'T! nt

[boppers]

42. NO WE CAN'T...

...Elect a king.
...Rule by edict.
...Ignore Congress.
...Ignore the Supreme Court.
...Dissolve democracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY

[Marr]

44. You act like the President is an anonymous bureacrat who

can only approve or veto whatever bills the distant Congress sends his way. It's called the bully pulpit for a reason. If he wanted something, he could set the agenda and push for it.

Kind of like he's done on cutting Social Security, only less underhanded and slimy.

[boppers]

48. He's got a temp job for 4/8 years. Not a king. He IS a bureaucrat.

He's set many agendas, and got complete shit back from Congress.

For example, he kept railing on about for the need for a Public Option, and got back.... shit. He wanted to close GITMO, and got back.... shit. He wanted a clean energy agenda, and got back... shit.

It's a long list.

[piratefish08]

68. OR 51 votes and the willingness to force the threatened filibusters.

but that would require spines and a fighting spirit.

In the meantime they have convinced the country that 67 votes is the minimum needed to accomplish anything and we believe it.

[PufPuf23]

86. POTUS Obama appointed a neoliberal and GOP Cabinet

and supports neoliberal policies.

I was fooled because HRC's neoliberalism and hawkishness made her my last choice in the primaries. I will vote for Obama in the general election in 2012 if he is the D nominee nonetheless.

I expect Obama not to run for a 2nd term by choice and liberals and others on the left will be blamed.

[pacalo]

12. There's a lot of panic going on right now here, & I think the timing

of the commission was a deliberate attempt to cause just that, considering Obama is not able to address it in a manner it deserves.

Obama's in charge & he gets the benefit of the doubt until he says what he plans to do.

:hi: Nance!

[rufus dog]

13. how about 48 minutes?

Just where is that BC?

[EFerrari]

17. Just because Axelrod has been sent out to pave the way

and just because the appointees to the Cat Food Commission are dancing with glee around their leak, that doesn't mean anyone should draw a reasonable conclusion. People who draw conclusions are birthers in the offing.

Sounds like a gynecological problem or a really, really failed comedy of manners, Birthers in the Offing!

LOL

[coti]

22. This IS a farce, isn't it?

It's killing me that we've got these people around who refuse to acknowledge the truth.

And then, once forced to acknowledge it, they just rationalize.

[EFerrari]

24. It's one thing to disagree and to lay that out.

It's another to start slinging mud in the absence of a rational disagreement.

But away with you and your oft repeated memes, and pshaw!

[Occulus]

54. There's been a name for those types since the days Usenet was the discussion forum of choice. n/t

[cliffordu]

4. No, but that don't matter to the haters.....

[grahamhgreen]

47. Yes! Because he has not firmly said he wouldn't. He is easy to read at this point.

[treestar]

66. No. It's drummed up hysteria worthy of a left wing Rush Limbaugh

If we had ourselves a left wing Rush Limbaugh, this is what he'd be saying. Though er wait, he would do this to Republicans.

It's like propaganda. An attempt to get you to think Obama feels this way in order to spread more hatred of him.

[gateley]

2. IS he supporting the tax cut? DId he sell out on SS? But don't wait for anything

to happen, just assume the worst now so you can get your outrage on. :eyes:

[Atman]

6. Can you read? He is giving in on the tax cuts.

I continue to support him. But Axlerod has apparently stated that they're giving in. No, it hasn't happened yet. Do you suggest I WAIT until AFTER, then post my outrage? Or should I express outrage FIRST in hopes that my voice will be one of many, perhaps even enough so that they'll finally hear us?

[countrydad58]

27. Well like

weathermen say "Trend is your friend"So far Obamas trend isnt to positive is it?

[GOTV]

53. "Always wait until it's too late" - the loser's mantra

The time for yelling is when the bad ideas first appear.

[xiamiam]

78. hint ....be prepared..nt

[villager]

3. There's never any consequence for Democrats for selling us out...

...well there is, in that they always lose to Republicans two years after a victory, but the DLC types don't really consider that a "consequence..."

[SidDithers]

8. Unrec...nt

Sid

[Dinger]

60. You Like The bu$h Tax Cuts? Selling Out On SS? Afghanistan ?

Privatization of education? Etc. Guess you're entitled to your opinion.

[Caretha]

79. Hope you have a macro Sid

I'd hate to see you have to have Carpal Tunnel Surgery from all the repetitive typing you do.

[Ignis]

89. Don't bother; it's just an ELIZA-style program.

;)

[Gold Metal Flake]

80. Rec...nt

[alittlelark]

10. I hope that WE get our voice back....

I have to have faith.

The alternative is too ugly to deal with.

[pa28]

11. I'm not happy with him now but i'm still waiting.

The next month should tell the story and I'm willing to wait that long.

In that time we should see concrete moves on the deficit commission, tax extensions and legislation relating to the mortgage fraud crisis. We might even see another banking crisis and demand from the banks for a second bailout.

In the aftermath of the Nov. 2nd disaster I've seen a shellshocked President who has lurched to the right in his comments with just about every chance for comment available to him. If he confirms that with action I'd have to say I'm with you.

Maybe I'm optimistic but I'm still hoping he uses the small window available to him and has some kind of inspiration. Guess we'll see.

[old mark]

15. I will wait and see, but I expect the worst. I believe the GOP will take it all

in the 2012 elections, and we won't see a Democrat as president for another 12 or 16 years, by which time it won't make any difference at all.

mark

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Greyhound]

16. K&R. Apparently we are supposed to simply quietly wait like good little children

until after they've rammed this down our throats. The we are to be allowed to complain about it, quietly.

Or maybe the plan is to "fix it later"...
:eyes:
:kick: & R

[QC]

21. As we used to sing when I was an evangelical boy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q00TXBPl9i4

[AndrewP]

62. Let's just not talk about it and assume everything went according to plan!!!

What could possibly go wrong?

[Greyhound]

18. Marker reply for the persistent posting bug. n/t

[True_Blue]

19. I won't vote for any politician who would be party to cutting SS!

[sabrina 1]

92. And you won't be alone. If they do that, I think it will spark

a movement to either take over the party, or a new one will emerge. This will be the last straw for an awful of people.

[2Design]

20. voting dem no matter what but other than in Name not sure there are any anymore

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BzaDem]

56. I guess we need ANOTHER 2000-Nader-style lesson so that you can learn how reality works once again

I mean, it would be nice if that could be avoided, but people like you need re-enforcement learning I guess. Maybe it'll take a 3rd and 4th war to have people like you see the light.

[nashville_brook]

94. actually, it didn't take a thrown election for us Dems to be robbed this time around.

[Starry Messenger]

23. He's not going to fight it.

Why would he? I mean, based on what we've seen so far on some big issues, this is pretty much the MO.

[boppers]

30. Cutting the military budget, removing exemptions for billionaire third homes...

I mean, how DARE HE put together a commission that puts together a kitchen sink report!

[PA Democrat]

59. Mortgage interest on third homes is already NOT deductible.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p936/ar02.html

And the proposal eliminates the interest deduction for EVERYONE, not just "billionaires."

The cuts to defense spending and raising the cap on the payroll tax are two items I fully support.

Sadly, there are far more items I adamantly oppose. I suspect the commission is using the deficit as a means to radically change our tax system to favor corporations and the wealthy. I haven't seen an in-depth analysis of how the numbers work out, but Krugman has already stated that these proposals would shift more of the tax burden away from the wealthy and corporations and onto the backs of the poor and middle class.

Some other proposals I am against:

Elimination of subsidized student loans.
Higher copays for veterans and people on Medicaid and Medicare
Fees for national parks and the Smithsonian
Elimination of funding for public broadcasting
Means-testing Social Security and thus turning it into a "welfare" program that can be more easily dismantled

[eridani]

61. An expensive balsamic vinaigrette does NOT make a poison ivy salad edible

The Catfood Commission recommendations must be taken as a whole package--up or down vote with no amendments. Any useful suggestions can be considered later as separate legislation.

[treestar]

74. If that stuff is in there too,

Then this hysteria is even more unjustified.

There is a clear attempt to undermine the Democratic President on DU, and anyone who falls for it and those trying to create it deserve the Republicans they will get.

The mere suggestion of ways to cut the budget are treated as positions Obama is fighting for.

[BzaDem]

52. You really don't deserve him to run again. Perhaps you need another Nader-2000-style lesson in order

to focus your mind. I would hope we don't need a Bush every 10 years to remind people of the alternative, but if we do, best get it over with sooner rather than later. I think he'll run, but it won't be because you deserve it.

[Ganja Ninja]

70. "I would hope we don't need a Bush every 10 years to remind people of the alternative"

With Obama around we don't need a Bush.

[BzaDem]

73. Again, I hope we don't need another Bush every 10 years to remind you how wrong you are.

Starting another 2 wars (bringing the count up to 4) would certainly be a sufficient reminder to you. I just hope such a reminder isn't required to make people see reason.

[Ganja Ninja]

76. Put down the Koo-laid and back away slowly.

This guy is making another Bush a real possibility. That's something that seemed impossible in 2008.

[BzaDem]

77. It would only be a real possibility if "progressives" don't get out and vote for him.

So it would really be such progressives making it a real possibility -- not Obama. Obama only has one vote.

[Atman]

81. Maybe if you post this same bullshit a few more times, someone will believe you.

If the Republicans will take over everything anyway, because Democrats sold out on our principles, WTF difference does it make?

Repeating your Nader line over and over does nothing to address the REAL problem, just your perceived problem. You seem to think people should vote for any Democrat because our ideals are right and just. Obama has proved that theory wrong. He has sold out on EVERY significant Democratic ideal. He never fought for anything we voted for him to fight for. At this point, I don't see any harm in voting third party, fourth party, Party of the First Part, Bachelor Party...what difference does it make if we're always just going to do what the GOP wants? How can you defend this shit?

.

[BzaDem]

84. Oh, you'll believe me after it happens. Reality has a tendency to do that to you.

You'll be crawling to the polls to elect President Ben Nelson if that's what it takes to stop the GOP. If you think there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans, you are in for a huge wakeup call. Think 9.5 on the Richter scale.

[Atman]

91. I NEVER SAID THAT. I never said that there is no difference between Ds and Rs.

Stop making shit up and just read my post. I said that THIS PRESIDENT is not doing ANYTHING that he told us he would do, and therefore it will be very difficult for me to support him if he continues on this trac. Of course I will vote for whatever Democrat is running in 12. How does that mean I should just roll over now and take Obama's capitulation to every GOP whim? Big dif.

[donco6]

90. ClarkUSA is that you?

We're not WORTHY! We're not WORTHY!

[sendero]

55. It's taken you this long?

I was there months ago. Obama is what he is and he is well to the right of center.

Plus he has no leadership skills anyway - even if he wanted the right things he couldn't get them.

[deminks]

57. Thank you for posting this.

I was just about to post something similar. I think I am very close to being done. DADT, Tax cuts, not looking back, backing off on Afghan withdrawal, healthcare reform that really didn't reform anything, financial reform that really didn't reform anything, continued spying, and the list goes on and on and on.

But that was the deal, wasn't it Obama, Axelrod? I have suspected a deal was made from the beginning, maybe before the beginning.

[madrchsod]

58. there is`t a politician on either side of the aisle....

that will vote to cut social security.

obama was the dumb ass that stepped into the social security is going bankrupt trap.you would have thought his advisors were smarter than that.

maybe that`s another reason why rahm left town...

[SHRED]

63. It's gone from "Hope and Change" to...

...hoping there's change.



---

[The Uncola]

64. Without some radical change..

.. in how he is proceeding, I am in the same place. The policies and people he has put in place and his constant capitulation on EVERY issue, has disappointed me very deeply. I, like many, many, MANY others feel bitterly betrayed. Without a huge turnaround in direction, if Obama is the Democrat's candidate in '12, I for the second time in my life, will be voting for someone other than a Democrat for POTUS. The first time was John Anderson.

[crazyjoe]

85. cutting SS would be the last nail in the Democrats coffin.

Repukes would use this every election.

[Swamp Rat]

88. NO TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!!!!!!

PERIOD!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Scuba]

93. I can't support any pol who supports those things....

Let's wait and see what the President does.

[Dragonfli]

95. worse than that selling out SS by lying and claiming it is part of the budget, it is not.

And for some reason they like to put up a pie chart with SS as the largest part of the budget even tho it comes out of FICA and not the budget they refer to. In other words it is a blatant con job.

Extremely Dishonest as well as a sell out.

[Imagevision]

97. Obama sellout, I agree, the next candidate will also smile - change can't be worse.

I'm amazed I'm saying this but I genuinely worked to get Obama elected including sending cash and then I learn I've been had.