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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:15 AM
Original message
No,
No compromise, no changes, no deficit commission, no change, no Obama. NO.

What Obama's Catfood Commission has initially proposed is worse than we are feared. Nothing less than the complete destruction of the middle class is what is being proposed. Virtually every single program that has helped the people of this country have a modicum of security and ease is being tapped for reduction or elimination.

Yes, I recognize that this is the first draft, first in a long, agonizing series of compromises and changes. But the significant thing about this first proposal is that it set the bar for all compromise to be measured against. And it sets that bar pretty high.

Thus, while raising the age of Social Security seems, and is, outrageous, it become positively benign in the face of raising the age and cutting benefits. Likewise, cutting out the mortgage interest deduction seems, and is, outrageous, but under the influence of that magical thing called compromise, it seems much better than cutting out the deductions for mortgage interest and student loans.

This is how the game works. An initial, completely outrageous position is set initially. But it allows lawmakers to "compromise" away, and the finished product, which would have seemed draconian before now seems like a model of sanity compared to what was initially proposed. This is how our safety, our security, our lives are going to be compromised away.

Whatever the final shape of deficit reduction takes, one thing you can be assured of, it will spell the end of the middle class. The rich and well off will suffer very little, if at all, but the rest of us will watch everything that we've worked so hard for go slipping out of our grasp.

The military is going to hardly be effected. 100 billion dollars in cuts:woohoo: we're going back to the 2005 military budget. Close a few unneeded bases, scrap a few of the more outrageous weapons programs, that's it. Oh, except for the fact that the soldiers, the men and women who serve our country, are going to be screwed like the rest of us.

But this is what this commission release was all about. It set the bar of outrage so high that anything even slightly below that seems like welcome sanity. This is how these deals get done.

We can't afford to compromise on this one, we simply can't. Our security, our standing as a people and a country depend on it. Many in government, though interestingly not the president, and throughout our country have roundly rejected these proposals for the insanity that they are. What we have to do is make clear, by any means necessary, that these proposed cuts are simply unacceptable. No compromise, no deals, no caving, no cuts. Is a rise in SS eligibility ages any less outrageous if it isn't paired with a decrease in benefit? NO! Is a cut in the mortgage interest deduction any less costly to the middle class if it isn't paired with child tax credit? NO! This is why we can't compromise, because even the compromise positions that will be taken, based on this initial proposal, are outrageously draconian in and of themselves.

Do we need to cut our debt? Certainly, but there are ways of doing this without destroying the middle class. First, raise the tax rates on the rich and take away the corporate and other tax loopholes that allow corporations and the rich to receive tax returns instead of actually having to pay their taxes. Second, seriously cut the military budget. Current military spending is far above the official Pentagon budget of 700 billion, in fact if you add it all together, our current military spending is about twice that Pentagon figure, in reality standing at somewhere between 1.4 and 1.5 trillion dollars. We can end these wars, cut the military and still be left with an effective defense force. Third, let the Bush tax cuts expire, all of them. They are going to cost us 4 trillion over the next ten years, money that can be used elsewhere, like a true WPA style jobs creation program and reducing the debt.

But the simple fact of the matter is that we cannot afford to compromise on this one. We can't afford to opt for the lesser of two evils because the stark fact of the matter is that the lesser of two evils will still dramatically impact millions of people, and not for the better.

This is going to mean that we have to get radical ourselves. Write, call, get out in the streets. Make common cause with your freeper neighbor because they're not going to like losing their mortgage deduction, child tax credit or have SS reduced any more than you do. We have to present a unified, bipartisan front on this one. And we have to use the one real weapon that we have left, and that's our vote. People have to pledge now, and stick to that pledge, that they will not vote for any politician that votes for, or in any way supports these draconian cuts, or any "compromised" version of them. From dogcatcher to president, we have to make clear to our "leaders" that their jobs are on the line.

Otherwise we are doomed to slip back into a feudal regime, one ruled by the rich and corporate.

No, this simply can't stand, this simply can't happen.

NO!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. Rec'd. Proud to be 5th rec n/t
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks, and good morning
What's sad about this is that Congress and the President will go ahead and compromise away the farm on this one no matter what we do. After all, Obama has already stated that he wouldn't mind if he was a one term president, now we know why.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. I don't like the answers I've been coming up with
about where Obama came from and who thrust him into the national spotlight.

I expected things to continue going downhill for the nation but not at this pace.

Road To Nowhere http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWtCittJyr0
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. But let's not eliminate those taxcuts for the wealthy!
No sirree!! Or raise the cap on SS. Or limit mortgage deductions to the HOUSE YOU LIVE IN. Or get the fuck out of TWO occupied countries. Or eliminate the tax cuts for companies that ship our jobs oversees.

I foresee DU coming to a crossroads at some point. How the HELL are we NOT supposed to talk about a third party option?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I had to wait until this morning, and still watch my temper,
To restrain myself from calling for a third party option. But the fact of the matter is that this is pretty much the last straw for me and the Democrats. If they allow this monstrosity to go through, even in compromised form, I'm done with them. The party of the working people, of the little people, has become just like the 'Pugs, the party for the wealthy and corporate elite. They are now just trying to disguise that fact with their rhetoric.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. The party of the working people
was sold out in 1997 with Clinton and triangulation. There is NO WAY any honest person can justify all the losses we've suffered since Clinton. The loss of unions, privatizing education and prisons, enactment of NAFTA, the Telecommunications Act, the Fairness Doctrine, the shrinking middle class, outsourcing, H1B visas. We not only lost our jobs, our livelihoods, our homes, our retirement, we lost our representation. And for what? So the elitists can continue to deteriorate our Democracy? Our Constitutional guarantees? Let's face it, Ralph Nader was absolutely right. There IS no difference because they're both (and I'll tone down my normal rhetoric here) feeding from the SAME trough.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Yep, it's more of the same old two party-same corporate master system of government
Perhaps this will wake more people up to that fact.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. Your suggestions are spot on...
...I wish you had been on the Catfood Commission! Everything you suggest is a great idea, that would help with the deficit and would not be so harmful to the middle class.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'll see your no and raise you
a HELL, NO! K & R

:grr:
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. And a GODDAM FUCKING HELL NO!!! n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. +1
:thumbsup:
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. Yes. The odd thing is that they are not even attempting to hide it any more at this point;

it makes me wonder what they have in store for us. All the pretenses are gone; remember that Zappa's quote?...

(Oddly, it looks like the majority of the populace are still oblivious. Oh well.)
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Eddie Haskell Donating Member (817 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. Getting old
I'm giving up on hope. The only way to fight this, is in the streets.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Hey Eddie, I'm getting old too,
But not to old to get out in the streets. I'll see you there, and welcome to DU!

(Psst, don't forget to take your cane to the marches, you never know when it might come in handy;))
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Eddie Haskell Donating Member (817 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thanks
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 08:54 AM by Eddie Haskell
I love the cane idea! A one million cane march with worldwide coverage of coppers beating poor old folks. We'll shame the bastards into capitulation. :)
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Eddie Haskell Donating Member (817 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. How's this?
Old Folks Rally on the Capitol steps April 15, 2011: Fight the Cat Food Commission

Step one: File for an extension
Step two: Show up in DC @ 10:30 AM
Step three: Bring a cane
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Sounds good to me,
But it will probably have to happen before April 15. This monstrosity is probably going to get the fast track so that people will have as little time as possible to organize opposition to it.
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Eddie Haskell Donating Member (817 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Move On
Agreed to sponsor march under a new division: Limp On (aarp, aarp, aarp)
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Let's have a celebration dinner afterwards. Say, 4:30-ish
lol
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Eddie Haskell Donating Member (817 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. And a food fight nt
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. + 1 nt
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
13. While I don't agree with you about "no compromise," I certainly agree with you about this proposal.
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 09:09 AM by BzaDem
The deficit is primarily a healthcare cost problem. We can't even fix this by raising taxes (since tax increases would only grow with inflation, while health costs grow with medical inflation). This isn't to say that raising taxes isn't necessary -- it just isn't sufficient.

The only way to actually fix the deficit is to control healthcare costs. That's it. The end. There is no other way to do it. Zero other way. In 100 years, the tens of trillions in deficits we will have will be almost entirely healthcare costs. Everything else will be negligible.

And I don't mean cutting health benefits. I mean cutting what we pay for those benefits. Other countries (even ones without ANY government insurance plan) manage to do it without cutting benefits or reducing the quality of those benefits -- we need to as well.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. The cheapest way was to eliminate the very costly middlemen
Iow, a Single Payer system with an overhead of only 3%. What we got was a system that will hand over more than 20% in profits, much of it from public funds, before they even begin paying for actual health care.

The wars, the Bush tax cuts, the bailouts, all contributed to the deficit.

The only thing that did NOT, was SS.

Any serious discussion of reducing the deficit has to include ending the very costly Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy as quickly as possible.

Slashing the Military budget has be included, and ending the wars, we simply can't afford them, not to mention the virtual free-for-all regarding the billions of dollars that is not accounted for. Alan Grayson knows all about that.

No more bail-outs, let them fail. And start prosecutions of those who collapsed the economy and try to retrieve some of the money they made through their corrupt practices.

There are plenty of ways to reduce the deficit. Legalize marijuana and collect taxes on it, legalize undocumented workers and let them start paying taxes. If it is truly an emergency, then some things will simply have to be done.

And, institute an austerity program for Alan Simpson and his 'class'. I haven't seen any cuts for the billionaires who are on this Commission.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. k&r
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. You have explained the game very well!
"This is how the game works. An initial, completely outrageous position is set initially. But it allows lawmakers to "compromise" away, and the finished product, which would have seemed draconian before now seems like a model of sanity compared to what was initially proposed. This is how our safety, our security, our lives are going to be compromised away."

When they finish with this dog and pony show many will be relieved and grateful that it wasn't as bad as Obama's commission wanted.


And people make fun of the elderly who fall for those phone call scams!
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John Kerry VonErich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
22. I thought the opposition is the party of no
:rofl:
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. HUGE K&R. The most important post of the week.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. Without the mortgage interest deduction, I could lose my home
I'm a single parent, robbing from Peter to pay Paul. I actually make a very good living, but being a single mom in upstate NY is an expensive proposition. I use my tax refund to pay my property and school taxes. And I have been chipping away at that mortgage for 10 years now. Being a "homeowner" is almost in sight.

If I don't get my mortgage interest deduction, it will be cheaper and easier for me to rent some dump.

I know I'm better off than millions, so I'm not really complaining. But that doesn't stop me from being pissed as hell.

Fuck them all.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. Well said. k&r n/t
-Laelth
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
30. Agreed
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
31. Our vote is not a weapon at all. It rarely has been.
Mass collective action is our weapon. Shutting down commerce is our one real weapon. Jamming the cogs of the machine.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. True, but it won't happen until we're flat to the ground
It's the response of last choice, I'm afraid. We're not there yet but we're getting closer every year.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
34. very well said!
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