During a DEMOCRATIC administration on a DEMOCRATIC web site are we really having this debate?

[no limit]

A debate about cutting social security? Seriously?

Can someone please tell me that this is some kind of sick joke and that president Obama is going to soon announce that we have all been punked?

[Me.]

1. Precisely!

[TBF]

2. The DLC has taken over the party and these are the results. nt

[Individualist]

51. Correct!

Their objective was to destroy the party from within, and they've succeeded.

[laughingliberal]

54. When the Reagan Democrats 'came home' we forgot to tell them to leave Reagan where they found him.

Why do we keep colluding to encourage the same failed policies that got us where we are?

[TBF]

62. Obama even gave us a clue during the primaries -

started talking about how he admired Ronald Reagan. We should've paid a little more attention to that ...

[laughingliberal]

63. I know. I guess I didn't believe it meant he agreed with his policies.

My bad.

[mdavies013]

3. I can't express how ANGRY I am with all politicians

Obama is weak.

The Democrats are pussies.

The Republicans are thugs.

And they are all in bed with the top 2% (which is who they are and therefore who they represent).

[OwnedByFerrets]

64. DITTO

[tigereye]

4. it does seem kind of bizarre

probably because of all the wacko tea-bagger/libertarian ascendancy. :(


I think it's highly unlikely. Just a lot of blather.

[treestar]

5. We are having this debate by exaggerating and overdramatizing

a suggestion from a commission. The Obama haters are using that to try to tie it all to him.

what surprises me is this much hatred of a democratic President on a democratic website. He seems more hated than Bush was. But most of it is drummed up by people looking for ways, no matter how tenuous, to connect him to something evil. If they'd done as good a job with Bush he'd be under the indictments they demand every day.

If Faux News were for the Democrats, this is what they'd be doing.

[no limit]

6. So you don't think Obama's commission will actually propose SS cuts? Simple yes or no will do

[Tesha]

8. Actually, much of what you read here is us complaining about how politically tone-deaf...

...the leader of our party seems to be, caromming from
one disaster for the Democrats to the next.

And he's just stepped in yet-another stinking political pile.

Tesha

[mdavies013]

11. How were the past leaks unfounded...

In the health care debate we got the public option...

is in...no it's out...no it's in...no it's out

then we are told that this is all that they could accomplish..and then you get a quote from the President that they decided to go with Romney Care to appease the Republicans.

You can relax and not react. I think I stay with my healthy dose of skepticism and lean toward ALL Democrats and Republicans are corrupt. Yes the Dem's to a lesser extent. They are not overtly for the top 2%, but that seems to be all they represent.

[Warren Stupidity]

74. Oh that is such nonsense.

There indeed are people here praising the recommendations from the chairmen of the catfood commission for being full of good ideas. We are in fact having the debate here as stated by the OP. Obama figures into this only to the extent that it is his commission, and your attempt to portray this as simply Obama bashing is utter bullshit.

[rocktivity]

7. The only thing we should be cutting is the Social Security RATE

which we could do if the salary cap was removed.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. Indubitably.

[Bandit]

9. Democratic Administration

:rofl:

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. I'll join you.

:rofl:

[Winterblues]

27. Here's another that agrees

[MadHound]

10. It took Nixon to go to China,

Apparently it takes a Democrat to ruin the middle and working classes.

[Art_from_Ark]

60. Yeah, it took Tricky Dick to go to China

Nixon: Hey, Mao ol' boy, we gotta get out of Vietnam. If you quit supporting the North Vietnamese, we'll get out.
Mao: OK, we'll quit overtly supporting Uncle Ho, but only if you start sending us your manufacturing jobs.
Nixon: Deal. I'll send you my man George H.W.Bush to get the ball rolling on that.

[xiamiam]

12. there is more

banksters fraudsters not held accountable; hamp is not working; war profiteers and war criminals not held accountable; there was a small window to reinstate bankruptcy for personal residences, missed; sham of a health care bill; bush tax cuts will be continued; and never ending war..please tell me WHY we are in afghanistan?

well, you get the picture..

[Tippy]

13. What do you think about this

We need the Blue Dogs...my God I hate to think I even said that....but a lot of Blue Dogs were elected as Democrats...and a lot of these Democrats retired rather than getting their heads handed to them by the Republicans in the Nov. Election...What do you think about asking them for their vote durring the lame duck session?

[no limit]

14. I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand your question. Blue dogs are corporate whores

just because it's a lame duck session I don't think their votes will change in anyway. They would hate to loose that six figure lobbyist job that is waiting for them.

[Tippy]

36. Not all will become lobbyist....as a mater of fact I am sure two from TN will return to TN

They have employmnent here....and a thrid who did not retire but instead lost will probably come back here to work on his farm.

[no limit]

43. Who are you talking about?

[tnlefty]

44. I don't really intend to answer for the poster, but John Tanner and

Bart Gordon retired and Lincoln Davis lost.

[no limit]

45. Thanks for that. I really doubt Bart Gordon and John Tanner are going back to work on farms :)

[Tippy]

50. Both Tanner and Davis have working farms....

Tanner is in business with his brother the also have an insurance company.Davis works on his farm when he was not in DC.....Bart Gordon long as his mother is alive I believe he will live in TN..

[lonestarnot]

16. Ackety, having to look to those fuckers to do the right thing to save the USA makes my skin crawl.

Especially when it comes to the dough.

[Tippy]

38. Makes my skin crawl too,,,but

WE might be able to sway their vote....I would be happy to pick up just 2 of their votes if it ment killing this tax break......

[NorthCarolina]

17. I don't buy that meme any longer.

We don't need the Blue Dogs. This last election proved that as the Blue Dogs were the biggest losers. Over 76% of the voting public supported single payer or, at a minimum, a public option. That included folks in Blue/Purple/Red districts. The Blue Dogs/DLCers blocked any meaningful reform, and forced the insurance companies down the throats of the citizens. Their actions sealed their fate, and they lost over 50% of their contingent. On the flip side, well over 90% of the Progressive Caucus was retained. I will call BS from here on out every time I see the "we need blue dogs in the Dem party" talking point. The truth of the matter is, we don't.

[SlimJimmy]

19. So, as a blue dog Democrat, I can count on you to lead the "purge" of the party?

If that's the case, then what a bunch of hypocrites we are, and what a small tent party we have become. Why don't we just change our name to the Far-Left Progressive Party and be done with it?

[no limit]

20. You're a blue dog democrat? In what sense?

[SlimJimmy]

47. I hold more conservative-leaning views on fiscal issues, and

progressive views on most social issues.

[TheKentuckian]

48. Your economics are failed bullshit and your corporate taint licking is a road to perdition

Being an economic royalist should be no more acceptable than hating minorities are trying to impose your faith based beliefs on others.

History demonstrates your secular religion is false. Yet you stubbornly cling to fantasies fueled by theft from the people. Your secular religion creates and ever increases poverty for the benefit of a few.

Far as I'm concerned you and similar are Republicans. Good on you for not being racist or whatever makes you feel "moderate".

[SlimJimmy]

52. Screw you and the failed horse you road in on. I don't wish our country to borrow

itself to oblivion, and you call that a "Royalist" attitude? I call it being fiscally wise. And you would be well served to listen. But, of course, you won't. You will continue to advocate the Keynesian model of spending stimulus. The only problem with that is, Keynes himself said it should never be done on borrowed money. But hey, never the facts get in the way of an ideological purge.

[TheKentuckian]

57. Your fellow fiscal conservatives created this nightmare

Your loopy trade policies, your absurd tax policies, your reckless spending on foolish wars for profit and corporate welfare.

[bluestate10]

67. Not a good start.

If we are going to move from the election debacle toward the nation that we can be, we must listen to opposing viewpoints from those that shed the same color blood as we. Blue Dog democrats ARE democrats as much as you are. All of us share a core set of views that set us apart from republicans, regardless of what those republicans call themselves. We as democrats believe in the human spirit and the ability of a person that is given a helping hand to reach for a higher and meaningful station in life. Incidentally, I am watching Rachel Maddow interview John Stewart. The discussion is illuminating. Many here will call Maddow a hero. I instead favor the Stewart viewpoint that if one listens to those that we passionately disagree with, we learn and at the same time make victory for the most moral course more possible.

[TheKentuckian]

78. Blue dogs believe in the exact same bullshit as Republicans and the smart one use different rhetoric

Neoliberal, neoconservative are just too different names,with two different stories, to explain despicable actions.

All humans shed the same color blood, why don't you cruise Sudan, Somalia, and Uganda and work out some compromises.

Leave the platitudes to the philosophers, insisting on "listening" to and compromising with the insane, the absurd, and the demonstrably false isn't being open minded and fair but stupid bordering madness. You refuse to accept any right and wrong, good and bad, productive or a waste no matter what your lying eyes tell ya.

Core values my ass. We believe in governance. That isn't a political party but rational as opposed to loopy. Structure versus anarchy. That leaves far too much space for a sensible coalition that is capable of actually representing the interest of regular people.

The DLC Corporate state and the GOP Corporate state don't really have a dimes worth of difference.
Take both these economic philosophies to their natural conclusion and you end up in the same place.

I don't require an icon. I'll cheer Maddow, Stewart, or anyone else when I believe they are on target and boo when they aren't.

Moderation is for vice, not principles.

[NorthCarolina]

21. It is necessary for the Dems to offer a clear ideological difference from the GOP

It was the conservative Dems that worked to block the change the people voted for, and suffered the most losses in 2010 as a result. The answer seems pretty evident to me.

[Tippy]

39. "well over 90% of the Progressive Caucus was retained" This is

exactly why I think we could get their votes. It certainly sends the message about what the majorty of voters wanted....

[leeroysphitz]

15. We've been punked all right...

[RainDog]

22. makes me want to

:puke:

[Dappleganger]

23. I am sorry but if you support cutting Social Security at all you are a republican.

Social Security is one of the hallmark accomplishments of the democratic ideals--taking care of the elderly--and I think that FDR would call anyone who supported putting cuts to his program a republican.

[bluestate10]

65. I am a democrat.

I will match my democratic heritage against yours any day. The question is whether the nation will break the spending binge that George W Bush launched on, or do nothing and move along the road to national irrelevance. Social Security related spending and defense spending take up about 4/5 of budget spending. Defense certainly can and should be cut, but failure to look at Social Security is ill advised. The elderly will continue to be cared for if the government goes after abuses in the SS system. Removal of abuses will not only make SS healthier and insure that it continues to be a national treasure, removal of abuses will also insure better delivery and higher quality of services to the elderly.

[tavalon]

69. Once the military industrial complex has been brought to heel

then we can discuss SS. Until then, in the words of Pelosi, it's off the table.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. Many here actually defend it.

Many here counsel patience.

[NorthCarolina]

26. I think that

the DLC maintains a presence here, hoping to guide you through the cuts...hold your fire till we see what passes. Some here will be duped and abide by their call for wait-and-see. It's a numbers game.

[Xenotime]

25. tea baggers have this administration scared.

[Poboy]

30. Hah! EVERYTHING has this administration 'scared'. 'Pull over, you're

going to be on GLENN BECK!!!"

This adminstration and Democratic party has SOLD US OUT!

[Romulox]

29. Gov't controlled GM broke the union contract and is hiring new workers at $14/hour

As always, things haven't "gone too far" when it is YOUR standard of living that is affected! (Things went too far a while ago...)

[bvar22]

31. I'll go back farther:

Can you imagine that ANYONE on a Democratic site would support
Individual Mandates to BUY insurance without a Public Option?
The Republicans could have NEVER gotten away with that.

[xiamiam]

32. k

[mstinamotorcity]

33. This is not an episode of Punked

Republicans have said all along what it is they were gong to do,and the American public acted as if they were not listening during the election of November 2.2010. Now they are following through with their agenda.

[no limit]

42. The republicans? This is a commission put together by a democratic president

[SidDithers]

34. Unrec...nt

Sid

[Gold Metal Flake]

37. Rec...nt

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TriMera]

59. Rec...That's a two-fer for ya, Sid. n/t

[gulliver]

35. It's exactly the time to debate it.

The Dems are the creators and protectors of Social Security. If there is no debate with those who philosophically oppose it (the Republicans), then the value of Dems is reduced. That, in turn, undermines Social Security. The debate keeps the issue alive. It is a form of vigilance.

[no limit]

41. The democrats are the ones proposing the cuts. They are not the protectors

These are not the same democrats that created social security, these are the democrats that love to hand out blow jobs to their corporate masters.

[Edweird]

46. DLC=GOP.

[robcon]

49. Nothing is sacred. The pain should be spread around.

n/t

[EFerrari]

56. Would you say the same thing about a bank robbery?

Working people did not run up the deficit and they didn't tank the economy.

[Angry Dragon]

61. I am not sure where you are coming from or are going with this

[Warren Stupidity]

77. pain spreading is the same as trickle down only reversed

In trickle down nothing ever actually manages to trickle down. In pain spreading the spreading never manages to trickle up.

[de novo]

53. This is what happens when conservatives are elected.

[LLStarks]

55. Some people on DU think the US has unlimited funds. nt

[ShamelessHussy]

58. some people think the gov lie, cheat, and steal our money

[dreamnightwind]

71. We do...

unless it's money that will go to the people.

Tax breaks for the rich? Check.

Hundreds of billions for the military, more than the REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED? Check.

$700 billion for "Quantitative Easing 2"? Check.

Keeping an inefficient private health care system that is helping to bankrupt this country, and mandating that every citizen buy into it? Check.

Trillions in money to the financial giants, making bogus financial derivative products whole after the collapse, even though they were sold using a rigged securities rating system and even though many of these securities, issued by private corporations, were held by foreign investors? Check.

It's pretty obvious what's going on. Don't come for social security cuts, the last hope for many of the elderly, while raiding our treasury for every well-connected bunch of fat-cats on the planet.

[Warren Stupidity]

76. in fact the funds appear unlimited with respect to military expenditures

and bankster bailouts. The limits come into play only when the spending is on programs that directly benefit the people.

Just last week 600B of magic money moved across the mythical line between treasury and fed. QE2 - no problem, paying out on the SS trust fund? big problem.

[Major Hogwash]

66. I'm not debating it. And I have to say that any Democrat who even considers it is history.

Faster than watching the helium come out of a balloon.

[tavalon]

68. Oh, we've been punked alright, but there's no joke moment

This is the mobilization moment.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

70. Question: WHERE IS Obama on this?

The Catfood Commission has stated its intent (as one might expect considering who is on it - appointed by Obama no less) to gut social security and medicare and leave millions without any financial support or healthcare - millions of the most vulnerable in our society.

And Obama is....where?

No one's heard peep one from him on this.

:wtf:

[grahamhgreen]

73. He is figuring out how to sell you on the findings and make it sound reasonable

[Poboy]

75. Actually, he chastised the critics of his commission, and told lawmakers to get with the program.

[tomp]

72. you didn't get the memo? nt