The people deciding our future will never collect Social Security

[DainBramaged]

never worry about paying for gas to go to work

never worry about where their next meal comes from

never worry about not being able to pay for a doctor when you are so sick you can't move

never worry about learning how to sew to close the holes in your kid's clothes

never worry about paying for car insurance

never worry about finding a safe place to sleep

never having to work hard a day in their lives

These are the people we elected to decide our futures on this planet

where did we go wrong?

[dawg]

1. Oh, they'll collect Social Security ...

from their *private accounts*.

[dkf]

2. All they did was keep social security solvent. They aren't using the money for deficit reduction.

I say means test the damned thing and be done with it but people don't want it to be a welfare program so instead they raise the ages for everyone. Whatever.

[kelly1mm]

6. What would you propose for a means test? All assets? Just

retirement funds? Income over life?

[dkf]

11. Based on income...

[karynnj]

18. What income would you include?

Assume that I had $10 million dollars in various stocks. I could eliminate all federal income by selling all of them in the years before I decide to take social security and put the proceeds in tax free bonds. Now, that would mean that I would likely pay a huge amount of capital gains in the years I liquidated all the stock, but I think I would then have zero taxable income in the years when I am retired.

I think that works? The hard first step - that I doubt I can figure out - is getting the $10 million! The fact is that many people do move away from stocks as they approach retirement - even those of us with far far less than $10 million - my extreme example.

When would you think means testing should be employed? There are many people who paid into SS for decades and who have included ss in their retirement calculations.

[kelly1mm]

29. Income per year or over life? If it is on income per year and not assets

you will see a huge shift from income producing investments to capital gain producing assets. Should someone with a 2 million dollar house but very little income be entitled to SS? Should a 70 year old who still has to work who rents and makes 35k per year not get SS? If no other income producing assets, a person would need approximately $1,000,000 in the bank to make $20,000 in income via CDs now. So what would be your income limit?

[ljm2002]

10. Means testing is a bad idea...

...yes specifically because then it becomes a welfare program and will be subject to constant attack based on that.

A simpler solution would be to raise the cap.

[dkf]

12. They are raising the cap.

[karynnj]

19. Why not just honestly raise income taxes paid into the general fund for the wealthy?

This simultaneously greatly increases (which I agree with) the total amount paid by the upper middle class and the upper class, but would then exclude many - paying more on this - from getting anything.

[ljm2002]

24. By how much?

I have not been able to find that information. Anyway that is one thing that can be done to keep SS solvent. As we all know, SS is not formally part of the deficit so in fact should not have been considered by the Deficit Commission to begin with. Which makes one wonder, what is the real agenda of the commission?

Well here's hoping that the thing dies in the cradle, unable to get agreement of 14 of the 18 members as required. Or alternatively, that the proposals are made more progressive and that the tax cuts for the rich are recommended to be put on the chopping block.

Yes, I know, fat chance.

[dkf]

13. They are raising the cap.

And they still need to do all that other stuff.

[HereSince1628]

3. Yes, this prevents them from having a conflict of interest

:silly:

[Indydem]

4. Sure sure. Whatever you say.

I get so tired of hearing this line of bullshit from the members here at DU, as if the lives and histories of people began yesterday and the people who represent us are all silver spoon douchebags like *. People do have histories, and whether or not you care to educate yourself, I’ll help.

Harry Reid grew up in a tiny town in Nevada. His dad was a miner and he went to a public high school. I bet Harry Reid and his family had more than one occasion where they wondered where there next meal might come from or if they would be able to fill their tanks with gasoline. I bet the Reid family knew how to sew, did more than just a few days of hard work in their lives, and may have wondered how to pay for a doctor or two.

Douchebag extraordinaire Mitch McConnell had polio as a child. I bet it crosses even his asshole brain every once in a while what life had been like had he not received the care that allowed him to overcome that disease. I can’t find anything about his parents, but it appears they too were lower middle class, and struggled economically.

Mr. Orange himself came from a family of twelve and shared a bedroom with all of them. He worked at the family bar starting at the age of 8 and all of his siblings are employed in blue collar jobs (or unemployed). Even that ass has done a few days hard work in his life, and I bet he has, once or twice, wondered where food, gas, or medical care was going to come from.

The one exception you can find to my examples is probably Nance Pelosi, who was the daughter of a congressman and by all accounts I can find, seems to have grown up in relative comfort. But I know that Mrs. Pelosi understands the needs of most Americans and works hard to help them.

So, go ahead and pass judgment on the people who make our laws and set our policy. Act as if they are all born into wealth and have never known hardship and have no idea what real life is like. It will probably make you feel better, but it’s not going to address the real issues we have in this country.

[MadHound]

7. There are 237 millionaires currently in Congress,

Furthermore members of Congress will get a pension that averages right around $55,000, along with access to a sweet health care plan and many other perks. Not to mention that simply by being a former member of Congress, they can sell their services to a lot of high bidders after they get out of office.

Sure, many came from humble beginnings, but the fact of the matter is that many of them are now rich, and despite their humble origins, the money they've made has removed them far from the common man, both in the way they act and the way they think.

This is what acquiring lots of money does, it changes how you think, how you act, and what you do. Your priorities change, from looking out for the working people, since you were one, to looking out for the rich, since that's what you are now.

If you don't get this, if you don't understand this, then you are not a very good student of human nature, because the pattern I pointed out here happens time and again.

[closeupready]

9. Thank you. This post needs to be bookmarked and re-posted every six months, at least.

To suggest that money - which is equivalent to power - does not corrupt is infantile.

It doesn't always, of course, but the person to whom you were responding seems to suggest that legislators don't consider their personal wealth when considering whether or not to raise taxes. That suggestion is a load of bullcrap.

[Indydem]

15. That is ridiculous logic and if true, it means we are doomed.

Barack Obama is a millionaire.
Hilary Clinton is a millionaire.
John Kerry is a millionaire.
Nancy Pelosi is a millionaire.
Keith Olberman is a millionaire.
Michael Moore is a millionaire.
Jon Stewart is a millionaire.
Bill Maher is a millionaire.
Jimmy Carter is a millionaire.
John F. Kennedy was a millionaire.
Ted Kennedy was a millionaire.
Franklin D. Roosevelt was a millionaire.

I reject your fallacious argument that millionaires, somehow, cannot represent or understand the plight of the common man.

[MadHound]

17. Really?

There is abundant evidence to back up my point, the big one in the room being the fact that Democrats are even considering the recommendations of the Catfood Commission. Does Boehner look or act like he understands the plight of the common man? Do you think that Clinton has anything personal invested in fighting for the common man?

There was a time when public service at the highest levels wasn't a cash cow, but rather a duty. We have gotten far, far away from that notion, and the further we've gotten from that, the further our politicians have gotten from the common man. If you don't understand this, then I suggest that you educate yourself on how our so called leaders have arranged things for their own well being, and the well being of those in their own circle, not ours.

Money corrupts, and lots of money corrupts in large ways.

[karynnj]

23. The report came out just yesterday - How many Democrats have even commented on it

Pelosi strongly condemned it as did Jan Sharanski (sp ?) who was on the committee. One comment was that this might not even have majority support from those on the committee!! One person I look to hear from is Senator Durbin who was is the only liberal Senator on the commission. Also on it is Kent Conrad, who seems for it and Baucus, who I have heard no comment from. Baucus did get an amendment that changing social security would take a super majority in teh bill that would have created a Congressional committee - to do what this committee created by Obama is chartered to do.

Here is a link with the committee members - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Fiscal_Responsibility_and_Reform#Commission_members

I always thought Bowles was a conservative Democrat - so how is it balance to put him with a very conservative Republican?

[Dyler Turden]

16. This should be a thread all on its own.

Thanks for pointing this out.

[karynnj]

20. So, is this why Senators Kenney, Kerry, Boxer, Lautenberg etc

have consistently over their entire careers voted against their economic interest and for the interests of people who have the greatest needs?

[DainBramaged]

14. You get so tired of hearing this line of bullshit from the members of DU?

or really? There are LOTS of other really shitty message boards out there, why not try one?

Merry Christmas pal.

The average AVERAGE net worth of the Senate is $7 million dollars. Don't ever thing you can feed us your line of pandering bullshit that we should feel sorry for these fucks in Congress.

[karynnj]

26. He said nothing of "feeling sorry for them"

and there is no reason to feel sorry for them. Still they need to be judged on what they do in the Congress, not their net assets.

[DainBramaged]

30. Wait, are you defending those who would take food from our mouths?

I judge them by what they HAVEN'T done, and measure them by their assets.

[karynnj]

33. No, I am not - and the poster is not doing that nor are the people he defended

There is not one person on his list who has not worked hard on issues to help people. The fact is the economy sucks - and the Republicans refused to help. They did everything they could to get good things passed. You are focusing your anger on a good poster, who did nothing wrong, and on the Democrats working to help. Why not blame the lockstep Republicans. (The fact is the country as a whole in blind anger just awarded the people who caused things to be worse to punish those working to help but not always succeeding.

[karynnj]

25. Very well said - and accurate

If you didn't already see it, here is a New Yorker article on Reid's background. It is incredible that he was able to survive that childhood and succeed as he did.

[fasttense]

5. Actually some of them are receiving Social Security right now.

The Billionaire Pete Peterson, who really, really wants that Social Security money handed over to Wall Street, is old enough to be my father and is collecting full social security benefits.

Alan Simpson, who is old enough to be Peterson's father, well maybe not, is collecting full social security. Right now he is sucking on that tit.

They have theirs, too bad for you.

[lame54]

8. Oh yes they will...

in one lump sum

[NNN0LHI]

21. We didn't see one person on TV discussing HCR who didn't already have health insurance either

That is when I knew we were fecked.

Don

[karynnj]

27. There were people without insurance speaking of it on TV, but they were not in Congress

This is obvious because Congressmen get the same plan that all federal workers get.

Getting rid of that will not hurt the millionaires among them, it would make poorer representatives even less likely.

[treestar]

22. they well might

surely some of them had W-2 jobs at some point in the past, for the needed length of time.

this is just silly envy of anyone who gets elected to office.

It's always going to be considered a success to get elected and serve in Congress. And furthermore they were elected by us to represent us. Your post as if they were visited upon us by aliens.

[DainBramaged]

31. Whatever

those who defend them who take from those who were elected by those of lesser means are no better than the thieves.

[Gold Metal Flake]

28. Rec...nt

[earth mom]

32. Fuck those fat cat fuckers who will never eat cat food but are forcing the rest of us to eat it!

:grr: