Memory Lane: Obama signs Patriot Act extension without reforms

[spotbird]

The provisions allow the government, with permission from a special court, to obtain roving wiretaps over multiple communication devices, seize suspects’ records without their knowledge, and conduct surveillance of a so-called “lone wolf,” or someone deemed suspicious but without any known ties to an organized terrorist group.

The Patriot Act drew heavy criticism from Democrats – Obama even once said it needed to be dialed back – during the Bush administration. But experts suggest that a string of foiled terrorist plots over the past year combined with the Democrats' falling ratings amid the healthcare debate blunted any move to reform the act, which was passed in the wake of 9/11.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0301/Obama-signs-Patriot-Act-extension-without-reforms


As a senator from Illinois, Barack Obama was a critic of the Patriot Act. Last week, however, the Obama administration asked the House and Senate to extend the three provisions. "The administration is willing to consider . . . ideas , provided that they do not undermine the effectiveness of these important authorities," Assistant Atty. Gen. Ronald Weich said in a letter to Congress.

That small concession was greeted by House Democrats on Tuesday as a "refreshing break" from the Bush era.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/23/nation/na-patriot-act23

[earth mom]

1. K & R! nt

[littlewolf]

2. K & R

[meow mix]

3. How dare you criticize these policys, no ones forcing you to be in this party

sarcasm ;p

seriously though..
the "endless defender" crowd is just getting creepy. now we see how the masses will end up following madness, same kind of phenomena

[katandmoon]

4. Bush III

[MissDeeds]

7. Unfortunately, I agree

Before long, even the most strident supporters are going to have to admit that many of Bush's policies have not only been carried over, but have been embraced by this administration. Denial is not an option if we want true change.

[rocktivity]

5. I'd prefer a good old-fashioned warrant to a special court

but at least with court there's a record of who's being spied on and the legal justification for it. The danger in warrantless domestic spying is that ANYONE can be spied on--including political opponents.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Blue Owl]

6. That's as far down memory lane as I want to go

No further!

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. Duly noted.

[alanquatermass]

9. Why the fuck is he doing this?!! Unless of course...

-- as Commander in Chief, Obama has access to information that we are not privy to, and has discovered that the Patriot Act is necessary.

I mean, what's another plausible explanation? That he's actually a Rethug in sheep's clothing and has been for years? (Hard to swallow -- unless you're a raving conspiracy nut)

What the hell could possibly account for why Obama's extending the Patriot Act???

[Individualist]

10. Learn about DLC/NDC.

[alanquatermass]

11. Can you brief me?

Y'know, just to get me started?

[ShamelessHussy]

14. to protect us from the muslims

[alanquatermass]

15. Ha! Very funny! Seriously! That is a GREAT joke. However...

-- it throws no light whatsoever on the matter at hand. Wish it did.

[ShamelessHussy]

17. don't trust your government, power corrupts, and we are living in very corrupt times

when the shit hits the fan, they will need all the patriot acts they can get their hands on to try to prop up this corrupt system, and they know it.

that is why it will stay, and be strengthened as well, by dems and reTHUGs.

or maybe it's the official story... the MUSLIMS :shrug:

[alanquatermass]

19. Can't tell if you're joking about the "official story" or not...

-- after all, German extremists (Nazis) wiped out 2/3rds of European Jews during WWII.

And the Japanese Army attacked us at Pearl Harbor.

And 19 Muslim extremists attacked us on 9/11 and the leader of Al Quaeda -- Osama Bin Ladin -- took credit for the attack.

In other words, we faced an extremist attack... and then an extremist attack... and then an extremists attack.

That's what extremists do: They attack.

So it isn't entirely UNTHINKABLE that it might possibly -- conceivably -- happen again.

[ShamelessHussy]

20. the official story is a bad joke, most people get that

if there was a time to be fearful and surrender our liberties it was when we were at war with a nation that had thousands of nukes, armies, navies, and an airforce.

this is a tragic farce.

BTW: I would NEVER give up my liberty to gov. no matter the 'threat'.

[alanquatermass]

21. Me either, Shameless, me either...

But here is a (for DU) possibly heretical question but I am going to ask it anyway:

As to the matter of Liberty vis a vis the Patriot Act...

Who has lost any? Just give me one example.

I can offer you countless examples of Blacklisting during the McCarthy era, innocent people having their rights and jobs stripped away from them... but I can't think of ANY innocent people, anywhere, who have surrendered their liberty during almost a full decade of the Patriot Act.

Can you?

Just one example.

If the PA wasn't abused during the Bush years, do we REALLY think it is going to be abused under Obama?

As a logical Progressive, all I am looking for is one thing: Evidence.

[Hydra]

25. Check out the ACLU if you're interested

They're drowning in cases of people that the Government did...we don't always know what to. Remember Jose Padilla?

There was a great article posted around this time, so you can forget the line about "This never hurt anybody"

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/06/judge_orders_fb/

[alanquatermass]

26. Will check it out, Hydra! Thanks!

nt

[Hydra]

29. n/p

Unfortunately, we really don't know how bad the damage is on this issue- we just know that it happened, and continues to. People disappear, they're forced out of jobs, they get renditioned on who knows what evidence.

The reason we don't know is the pushback from the DoJ. Every time we see a little daylight, they pull out the "state secrets" things and ask for a dismissal. The little that we do see seems to suggest they think they're outside of the law- and we all know where that goes.

[ShamelessHussy]

27. When they are able to spy on all our communications, that is a liberty LOST

i.e. The 4th Amendment

There is one.

[alanquatermass]

28. Agreed Shameless, but are you also opposed to wire-tapping?

Wire tapping's been perfectly legal in the U.S. for decades (or more), provided one first secures a court-order?

Is this not also Liberty lost?

[ShamelessHussy]

30. I just gave you an example of a liberty lost, since you didn't see any...

As you requested

[Hydra]

31. Warrant required

A judge has to rule just cause for search and seizure. Not that that is foolproof, but there are nasty legal repercussions if there cause to show that it was not called for.

The current system is straight datamining. They are logging everything we just posted to a secure data storage where they can access it at any time along with all our other records and communications. Smile! You're on candid camera!

[alanquatermass]

32. Holy crap. That's pretty disturbing...

So why is it you think that Barack Obama, an intelligent man, a man that all of us here at DU (presumably) voted for, and man who was considered the most Liberal person in the Senate... WHY would he keep perpetuating this stuff?

For what earthly reason?

We know why Bush/Cheney would keep doing it... but why would Barack?

[Hydra]

33. The ball was already rolling

Remember all the crap that happened in 2006 even though we finally got the Grand ol' Perverts out of power in Congress? Military Commissions Act of 2006(Torture and Enemy Combatant Status), FISA gutting and various other things that President Obama "had" to vote for in order not to make waves and win?

Each of these steps were made to "legalize" all of these very illegal operations and to test the waters on how far they could push it before open revolt happened. Meanwhile, they watch our actions and use psychological test-like algorithms to assess our threat levels. If you top out, I assume you get economically blacklisted, get accused of heinous crimes or disappear.

Now, the then Senator Obama had to make a choice- do I join the party and reap the benefits, or do I become the next Dennis Kucinich or Michael Dukakis while Hillary Clinton becomes the first Woman President?

That's the easiest answer, IMO. You can't win in this system without a nod from the top. The house always wins.

[alanquatermass]

34. That's as reasonable an explanation as I have seen so far...

Thanks again, Hydra!

[upi402]

12. Next up, he'll let them raise taxes on working and middle classes

Even though he pledged not to do that.

And even though it's taboo to discuss him acting like a Republican here on DU, it doesn't change the fact that he is.

[Bluebear]

13. Emergency!!! Post a picture of SEXAY SEXAY O-man swimming!

STAT!

[smokey nj]

16. Memory Lane never really loved him.

:(

[boppers]

18. False frame... it wasn't the same as the original.

Enjoy the chicken.

[Bluebear]

22. How was it different? Thanks!

[boppers]

35. A link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act#Reauthorizations

Changes were made to wiretapping, NSL's, sneek and peek, library records, etc.

edit: spelling

[Bluebear]

37. Appreciate it.

The whole thing still stinks but I thank you for your info re: the reauthorizations.

[ibegurpard]

23. why are you bringing up past history??

we're supposed to be moving forward...

[AlabamaLibrul]

24. I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED! SHOCKED! WHAT IS THIS ABOUT? Oh... nevermind... n/t

[L0oniX]

36. Our government is a social economic terrorist.

Work cheaper and harder and better or we'll give your job to some slave in another 3rd world country.
Oh well ...who told you that Social Security was a real contract anyway? Oh you thought it was your money? Muhahahah

[defendandprotect]

38. Sad .... a lot of betrayal and crime hiding behind these wars .... !!!

[tomp]

39. so who voted against the extension? nt

[Kaleva]

40. I'm fine with this.

Never really had an issue with the Patriot Act in the first place.