ACLU is joining in as pressure rises on Obama to investigate Bush for torture

[pgodbold]

I've waited years for this. Please God, let it come true this time.

"Amnesty International Senior Director Claudio Cordone said in a statement that the Obama administration must prosecute the former president.

"If his admission (in his new book) is substantiated, the USA has the obligation to prosecute him," he said. "In the absence of a US investigation, other states must step in and carry out such an investigation themselves.""

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/pressure-rises-obama-investigate-bush-torture/
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[ZombieHorde]

1. Recommended. If we can't even stand up against torture, what good are we? nt

[de novo]

2. Recommend.

[Catherina]

3. Obama won't investigate Bush, Not in a million fucking years n/t

[glinda]

5. that is because he is now implicated also

[Catherina]

9. Jesus, thousands I gave that man. I want them back, What a fraud. n/t

[readmoreoften]

18. That is really a crime. I'm so sorry.

[shraby]

10. Not implicated unless he refuses to investigate

by the end of his term.

[glinda]

12. bbbbbbut... no one goes to jail here....

[readmoreoften]

16. +1

[Radical Activist]

17. Investigation is already happening.

But last August, after a redacted version of CIA Inspector General John Helgerson's report on the CIA's torture program was publicly released, Holder did expand Durham's mandate and authorized him to conduct a "preliminary review" of less than a dozen cases of torture involving "war on terror" detainees, including al-Nashiri. Those cases had been previously closed by DOJ attorneys for unknown reasons.

Durham's review into those cases is ongoing and no decision has yet been made about whether there is enough evidence to launch a full-scale criminal inquiry.

http://www.truth-out.org/special-prosecutor-declines-file-criminal-charges-over-destruction-cia-torture-tapes64973

[Luminous Animal]

20. The investigation is dead. But, I think you are counting on people not clicking on

the link and reading the article.

[Radical Activist]

23. No, the investigation is ongoing.

You obviously did not read the entire article. Maybe you just read the first part about ONE part of a much larger investigation being closed. Keep reading.

[Luminous Animal]

24. I read it. Pretend that I am stupid and provide me with the relevent quote.

[Radical Activist]

26. I already did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9538079&mesg_id=9542534

You ignore facts that don't fit your anti-Obama narrative?

[Luminous Animal]

30. A preliminary review is not an investigation. You claimed that an investigation is ongoing.

Nope. A preliminary review as to whether to launch an investigation is ongoing.

[Radical Activist]

32. Why is it so important to you to believe that nothing is being done

despite all evidence to the contrary? You're engaging in a ridiculous game of denial and splitting hairs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9542227&mesg_id=9542630

I have another question. When there's solid evidence that conservatives are working to undermine Democratic sites, and when their behaviors are evident in abundance, how is it logical to deny that it's going on? Why do you want none of us to believe that there are people here for no reason other than to campaign against Obama and divide the left?

[Luminous Animal]

34. You claimed that there is an ongoing investigation. I insist on clarity. There is no investigation

There is merely a review as to whether or not to investigate.

I do believe that there are conservative groups actively engaged in disrupting this board. I do not believe that they are here to divide the left. I believe that they are here to drag the dialog to the right. That is, they are here to divide us against our allies.. unions and unorganized labor (for instance, I've witnessed derision against Starbucks baristas organizing) and activists (labeled as cooks, attention whores, and embarrassments). The conservative groups are active in keeping us divided against collective action. Obama is beside the point. Presidential electoral politics is only once in four years. The big money can take care of disrupting that.

[gratuitous]

4. And darnie if this pressure didn't come just as Dems lose their House majority

What are the odds?

[Ramulux]

6. Dont hold your breath

[prodigals0n]

8. Unless you're being waterboarded

Even then you have to breathe sooner or later. Just as justice must be served sooner or later. Let's hope it doesn't take as long as it did with Pinochet.

AG Holder was ready to prosecute the entire state of California if they passed Prop 19 but he can't seem to prosecute an admitted war criminal. It's as if Bush was still president. President Obushma.

[Goldstein1984]

7. My Email to the White House

Dear President Obama;

I join with the ACLU in encouraging you to investigate George W. Bush for violation of the U.S. anti-torture statute.

Nothing less is at stake than the credibility of a government that routinely prosecutes its citizens for lesser crimes.

Regards,
(Goldstein1984]

[laughingliberal]

33. Good job! nt

[Goldstein1984]

35. Since I'm pretty sure nobody in Washington is listening

I try to keep my emails short and to-the-point.

It wastes less of my time.

[ArcticFox]

11. Admissions don't need to be substantiated

An allegation might need to be substantiated, but an admission is an admission. It comes from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Just prosecute already.

[Bluebear]

13. Obama already has said he is not interested in prosecuting these crimes.

[BlueStater]

29. Then he belongs in prison with Bush for failing to uphold the law.

I hate to say it but it's true.

[Radical Activist]

14. "Those investigations are ongoing."

I don't know why people are so routinely mislead about these things. Why doesn't the progressive online media cover the ongoing investigation instead of complaining that there isn't one?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g6sJ3Xr7kF602AVyixG782bcQ3fQ?docId=CNG.89c96e59c479e63644d023208c721a83.861

[Luminous Animal]

19. Statute of limitation on that investigation ran out 3 days ago.

The matter that was being investigated by John Durham was the destruction of the CIA torture tapes.

It is surely a mystery, it is, why people are so routinely misled about these things.

[Radical Activist]

22. No, it has not run out on other crimes.

The investigation has expanded to other related crimes which can still be prosecuted. The investigation is ongoing.

[Luminous Animal]

25. Specifics, please.

[Radical Activist]

28. You're not engaging in an honest exchange of ideas.

The specifics are there in the linked articles. You're deflecting.

[Luminous Animal]

31. Again. There is no investigation. Only a preliminary review to determine whether or not

an investigation is warranted. That's specifics. You are dissembling.

[orleans]

15. here--i'll hold my breath with you. n/t

[defendandprotect]

21. Obama/Holder DOJ investigate .....???

:rofl:


SADLY ... !!!

[Rex]

27. But but but, his lawyers said it was O K!

And you know how lawyers are the pillar of truth and justice in America. Why just look what a fine job they've done in Congress...at what I have no idea, just look anyway.

[Independent_Liberal]

36. The chorus is expanding.

First I'm going to take this moment to say I'm done arguing with people who keep arguing that it's a waste of time, a lost cause, or nothing's going to happen, move along, etc. I could go on and on. I've tried to make those people see things my way, but I've had no luck. I've seen people who want prosecution insulted and called delusional. It's happened to me. Why are we delusional? Because we care about the rule of law and trying to make deterrants to future GOP abuses of power?

What I think delusional is? Thinking that victims of these crimes around the world are just going to move on with their lives like nothing happened. Delusional is thinking we can still go on as a democracy if we let war criminals walk. Delusional is thinking the same abuses of power won't occur again in the future as a result.

No, you can't have it both ways. That's reality.

Sure, people can call me delusional if they'd like. Well, if caring about the well being of liberty, the rule of law, and the future of the country and the world makes me delusional, I'm happy to be delusional. As a matter of fact, I embrace it.

The problem I have with the "never gonna happen" crowd that jumps at every opportunity to kill any sliver of hope that comes out in the news is that they seem to do so without respect for people who are upset about what has happened and won't be able to move on. I wish people would be more compassionate about those who are doing something that they think is a noble cause. If you think it's a lost cause, that's okay, it's only your opinion. You don't have tear others down because you think what they're doing isn't productive. To me, it seems like these people think anybody who has a different opinion than them is delusional. That's just how I perceive it at least.

I just think that if you truly care about humanity and doing what's right, you've got to join in some battles that seem very tough to begin with. There were a lot of battles in history that seemed impossible to achieve and took years, but people eventually accomplished them.

Okay, I think I've said my piece. As I've said before, I won't argue with anybody because of their opinions.

And kudos to the ACLU and anyone else joining the growing chorus calling for investigation and prosecution.

[Blasphemer]

37. Never happen

Not in the U.S. and not anywhere else in the world either. The U.S. gov't would never let it happen. I don't like it but I don't think anyone anywhere has the stones to take it on.

[Independent_Liberal]

39. Other countries are taking it on...

Have you read about the actions being taken by the Spanish court? Also, I recommend that people from the "never gonna happen" crowd like yourself read my post above.

[bobbolink]

38. The U.S. will be totally shamed if it does nothing, and other countries take the necessary action.

I can't understand why they haven't thus far...???