Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

How Joe Lieberman helped the Dems lose...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:27 PM
Original message
How Joe Lieberman helped the Dems lose...
Late in the negotiations over the public option, a group of five conservative Democrats and five more-liberal Democrats seemed near to an unexpectedly smart compromise: Allow adults over 55 to buy into Medicare. This idea had a couple of different virtues: For one, it opened an effective and cheap program up to a group of Americans who often have the most trouble finding affordable insurance. For another, the Congressional Budget Office has said this policy would improve Medicare's finances by bringing healthier, younger applicants into the risk pool. Oh, and it's wildly popular with liberals, who want to see Medicare offered as an option to more people, and since Medicare is already up and running, it could've been implemented rapidly.

But Lieberman killed it. It was never really clear why. He'd been invited to the meetings where the compromise was developed, but he'd skipped them. He'd supported the idea when he ran for president with Al Gore, and he'd reaffirmed that support three months prior to its emergence in the health-care debate during an interview with the editorial board of the Connecticut Post. But now that it was on the table, he seemed to be groping for reasons to oppose it. About the best he managed was that it was "duplicative," which was about as nonsensical a position as could be imagined. Nevertheless, he swore to filibuster the bill if the buy-in option was added. The proposal was duly removed.

It's easy to say that this made for worse policy. Medicare buy-in was a smart, helpful idea that should've been included in the legislation. It's harder to say whether it had a defined political cost in the election: Liberals would've been a lot happier if they'd managed to add this to the law, and maybe more of them would've turned out to vote. Seniors might've been pleased to see Medicare's finances improved, and many of the people who would've been helped by the new rule would've been, well, their children. The law could've begun delivering benefits earlier, and maybe that would've helped its popularity. Polls of doctors and the public have repeatedly shown broad support for making Medicare available to more Americans.

Put all this together and it might've saved a few seats, or perhaps it wouldn't have saved any seats at all. Or maybe it would've changed everything. At any rate, it's the sort of thing that might've made a difference, and its absence was the result of one senator's incoherent intransigence. We're pretty used to looking for what the White House did wrong, and what the congressional leadership did wrong, but in a Senate where there were 60 Democrats for a time, there are a lot of cases where the decisions of one or two individual senators made a big difference to legislative outcomes. They deserve scrutiny, too.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/11/how_joe_lieberman_helped_the_d.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Please K & R this!
Oh how I loathe that weasel Lieberman.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. I can't wait for this POS weasel to lose or retire in disgrace in order to avoid an ass
kicking in the election. Not that he won't make a killing in the private sector prostituting himself but still.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Joe is the the biggest throbbing sack of resentment
this side of Clarence Thomas. And the most pathologically self-absorbed.

He's always been that way, he's just worse now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Perfectly put. Both of them self-hating, resentful pussies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Insurance Companies OWN LIEberman
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. He and Ben Nelson are our two biggest enemies..
Republicans are predictable, we know exactly what they are going to do or should I say not do..Lieberman and Nelson are supposed to be Democrats, but both are nothing more than back stabbing sons of bitches and I can't say what my wishes for those two are or I might get in trouble...They are the scum of the earth IMO...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. Uh oh. You just stepped into the discussion with actual facts. Put on your flamesuit. Anyone who
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 06:10 PM by BzaDem
doesn't put the fault on Obama for not being "tough enough" with Joe Lieberman, or not "getting it done" without Joe Lieberman, is clearly a wild-eyed Obamabot.

:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Frankly I don't blame Reid for a lot but for not being tougher on Lieberman
I do blame Reid. Lieberman should have lost his committee chair over his behavior on the health care bill. At the very least, the price for getting to chair a committee should be that you have to support the party on any and all proceedural motions. Final bills, OK vote your way, but procedural motions, you vote with us or no gavel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. And you've forgotten Obama was in favor of Lieberman keeping his position? Then there's this:
In an article set to appear in Sunday's New York Times magazine, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says that Sen. Joe Lieberman blindsided him on health care reform.

Lieberman announced his decision to join a Republican filibuster on CBS's "Face The Nation" -- apparently without giving any warning to the leader of his caucus:

Lieberman's announcement, which torpedoed a compromise that Reid helped to midwife, caught the Senate majority leader by surprise. Reid had spoken with Lieberman two days earlier, and one of Lieberman's top aides participated in the Saturday-afternoon conference call that Reid orchestrates for Democratic senators who will be appearing on the Sunday talk shows. "He double-crossed me," Reid said stiffly, associates later recounted. "Let's not do what he wants. Let the bill just go down."
Reid and Lieberman had a face-to-face discussion shortly after the CBS interview. But according to the Times, it was a conversation with White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel that convinced Reid to drop a Medicare buy-in, which itself was a retreat from the public insurance option.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/13/harry-reid-lieberman-doub_n_422168.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. I bet there are Joe supporters on this very board!
By now it should be obvious, even to Obama loyalists, that Joe is a festering bucket of pus.

Next!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm going to donate to his Dem opponent until it hurts
I can only believe he did this out of spite, and it's the worst thing he's done out of a long list of horrible things. Supporting the war in Iraq was bad, but at least, he didnt't cause that all by himself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yeah, but we need him........
Actually we don't need shit from Joe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks.
K & R :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sometimes things are not all that they appear in politics
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 06:04 PM by Vinnie From Indy
I, for one, believe strongly that Lieberman and the Obama people had a deal. Lieberman was to play the "spoiler" and the "villian" in the HCR scam for the Obama Admin. His role was to appear at the last minute and take the heat for "killing" the parts of the bill the Obama Admin. had negotiated away in private. This is a very plausible scenario and I think it is the correct one.

In short, Lieberman's actions were not those of a lone wolf. He was part of the scam.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
groundloop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. that's bullshit. Lie-berman was going to go along until he figured out liberals liked the idea
Edited on Thu Nov-11-10 08:35 PM by groundloop
Lie-berman was the major stumbling block to getting SOMETHING decent out of the healthcare bill that the public would understand and support. Baucus and Nelson didn't help, but Lie-berman was the worst. If that last ditch effort to save the bill with only Medicare buy-ins for those 55 and up would have survived we wouldn't have seen the bloodbath in the election. That cluster fuck is the largest reason the general public voted against their own best interests.

And yes, I'm still pissed at Reid for not better handling Lie-berman. He should have been read the riot act about going against his party on procedural votes, and stripped of any chairmanship for doing so.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. No, I think Joe became a spoiler because he was given, paid or promised something
Weasels like Lieberman rarely, if ever, do anything for free. Simply pissing people off would not motivate Lieberman to do what he did. He did not act solely out of spite. There was a payday somewhere in his actions. You can bet on it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rury Donating Member (629 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. LIEberman was for the Medicare buy-in until
liberls started saying it would eventually lead to the public option.
Then the asshat backed off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Reid? You've, perhaps, forgotten that Rahm was in Reid's office < 16 hours after Lieberman's...
defection ordering him to give Lieberman what he wanted?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Interesting ... didn't know that .... wow !!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Exactly what I was thinking
Especially after President Obama's admission that he planned to have HRC come out exactly as it did before the debate even began.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. +1000 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. That's a ridiculous conspiracy theory.
But I suspect there are many on DU who are cynical enough about Obama to believe it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
31. What could have been more obvious than the drama...Obama impotent/Lieberman in control of Congress..
Ah, yes it was Obama against the Superman Lieberman --

except if you looked closely, that Lieberman Superman was created by Obama!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. I really don't like him
x(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. Rec'd n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
20. Al Gore's biggest mistake. I was so disappointed when he chose Lieberman for vp. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Imagine having had that Trojan Horse in the VP spot!! However, Gore ....
certainly knew what he was doing -- he had served with Lieberman, a religious

fanatic for years in Senate.

Gore also gave the NOD to Clinton to overturn 60 years of Welfare guarantees!!

Gore also had a lifelong sponsor in one of the oil companies.

What we have to understand is that we are being given the candidates TPB want us

to vote for -- they're all pretty much pre-bribed and pre-owned by elite money!!

Congress is now mainly millionaires and multi-millionaires -- who are they going to vote for?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
21. I get so tired of the idiotic misplaced blame.
This piece should have been written a long time ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
22. More correctly ... "How Obama put Lieberman in charge of Congress" ....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. So even when it's Lieberman's fault it's still Obama's fault?
That shows a lot of determination. :wtf:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. No -- Obama gave us Lieberman as the all potent ruler and decider ....
somehow you missed that?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Yes, that must have happened in an alternate universe.
Since Obama had very little impact on Lieberman getting re-elected, and it was the filibuster rule that gave Senator #60 so much power.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. No ... it happened as we all watched ... Lieberman raised to Superman status ....
allegedly in complete control - -

:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. How close do you think this election would have been if health care reform included Medicare buy in?
My dad is a righty and when I said Medicare buy in would have been a better way to go with healthcare reform, it sounded good to him too. But of course that was only part of the debate on progressive radio and among progressive bloggers, not the MSM, and apparently only briefly in Congress.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
35. Whoa. Thought I was flashing back to the 2000 election with this headline. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC