Obama loyalists, conflating the permanent and temporary top 2% tax cuts won't help the situation.

[coti]

You know that when people who aren't paying that close of attention find out that they've been misled- i.e., when Obama signs the EXTENSION of the top 2% cuts (not PERMANENT top 2% cuts)- your misleading and stringing them along will have only made things worse, right?

People are already going to be really pissed off, just because of the capitulation. This deception and interference running will only make them even more angry.

[BzaDem]

1. They are conflated because no bill that doesn't conflate them will pass Congress. Just because you

don't LIKE a truth doesn't mean it suddenly becomes not the truth. If Republicans were to suddenly declare the world flat, that doesn't mean the world is actually flat.

[de novo]

3. Let them all expire, and let the repugs block tax cuts for the middle class.

The Dems are approaching this acting like the weaker party.

I think all the tax cuts should be allowed to expire anyway. Shit, doing nothing is what Congress does best. I can't believe they are trying so hard to meddle with this and turn it into a political loss.

[Dr.Phool]

13. Acting?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. Why do we even have a President?

The result of every conceivable piece of legislation is always *KNOWN* with metaphysical certainty. And the president is always irrelevant to these known outcomes. No way to sway anyone, affect public opinion, manage events...

Maybe we should go ahead and have some of these freaking votes... if nothing else, just to verify/calibrate our omniscience.

[BzaDem]

11. I agree we should have the votes. But that won't affect the policy.

Back when the Constitution was written, they actually never intended the Presidency to be powerful at all on domestic policy fronts. That's the point of making Congress "Article I," among others.

I'm not saying we should agree with this because the founders said so -- I'm just acknowledging the reality of the situation.

In many polls, a plurality of the voters don't even know which party controls Congress (let alone the nuances of the filibuster). So even IF the public's views mattered at all to Republican congresspeople (and they generally don't), the ability of the President to affect public option dramatically is quite overstated. LBJ got his bills through because he had 20 moderate Republicans willing to work with him and 68 Democrats total (so he could afford Democratic defections). FDR got his bills through because he had 69 Senate seats.

People think that:

a) FDR used the "bully pulpit"
b) FDR got his bills passed

therefore

a was the cause of b

But of course that implication does not logically follow from just a and b. In reality, FDR had a Congress that was open to his policies, given enough fighting. Obama clearly doesn't, especially after the election.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. They all claim to know the future...

I too would like to see some of these prognostications proven with the actual taking of votes.

[coti]

7. What truth? What are you talking about?

Obama ruled out the PERMANENT top 2% cuts, because he's ultimately going to agree to the top 2% temporary extension in negotiation.

That's the point. Do you not believe that to be true?

[BzaDem]

9. Of course I believe it is true. He will agree to a temporary extension of all tax cuts

because elections have consequences, and that is the option available to him.

[coti]

10. JEEBUS on a trailer hitch. THANK YOU.

Finally, at least one honest one.

Props!

[kelly1mm]

12. What I see is a temporary (2-5 year) extention of both the top 2%

tax cuts and the bottom 98% tax cuts. The R's will not decouple them. Even they know that trying to cut the top 2% tax rates alone is a loser with the public.

[Exilednight]

14. Originally he ruled out any tax cut for the top 2% whether they were temp or perm ........

he capitulated on the first part, how long until history repeats itself?

[coti]

17. True- long, long ago he wanted to let the "Bush" tax cuts (top 2%) expire nt

[Exilednight]

18. Long ago? It was only about a month ago. n/t

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

2. The weirdest thing about the whole propaganda effort is the day-to-day quality of it

No forward thinking...

[de novo]

5. It is all reactionary to the repug frame.

That is one of my chief complaints about the Democratic Party, their willingness to give up the frame before battles begin.

[Skittles]

19. they're not in touch with WE THE PEOPLE

therefore, they don't have the knowledge necessary for such "forward thinking"

[fascisthunter]

4. It's Harming the Party of the People

and helping the party of corporate america.

[Luminous Animal]

8. As if we are supposed to forget that a short while ago, he said that there would be no compromise.

[ProSense]

15. Third Way, PCCC and Steny Hoyer

agree that the tax cuts for the rich should expire.

Poll