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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 09:36 PM
Original message
The Terrible Cost of the Bush Tax Cuts.
Supporters of extending the Bush tax cuts claim they create jobs. This is their main argument for not allowing them to expire. But it is a lie. The Bush Tax Cuts did not create jobs. I don't know why this point is not being made repeatedly since there is so much evidence to support it.



President Bush signs his $1.35 trillion tax cut on June 7, 2001, at the White House.

Supply Side Tax Cuts Failed to Deliver Jobs and Growth Between 2001 and 2007


This and other efforts of the “Bush Legacy Project” to rehabilitate the last administration’s job creation image and defend its tax cuts ignore the stark reality that the Bush administration’s tax policies fostered the weakest jobs and income growth in more than six decades, and ignored alarming labor market trends in minority communities. This record of anemic job creation was accompanied by sluggish business investment and weak gross domestic product growth that characterized the period after the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 went into effect.

Yet conservatives continue to argue for another round of permanent tax cuts similar to those of the Bush administration. Even if all of the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire as scheduled, the projected cost of the Bush tax cuts to the federal budget over the next ten years is $3.9 trillion, an average of 1.4 percent of the country’s total economic activity (GDP) per year. Those asking for more permanent tax cuts continue to justify the cost, claiming tax cuts create jobs.


From Christine Romer of the Council of Economic Advisers not looking back, but looking forward:

Extending High Income Tax Cuts is the Wrong Answer for the Economy

First, extending the high-income tax cuts would provide very little job creation in 2011. There is widespread agreement that the short-run economic benefits of high-income tax cuts are small. The Congressional Budget Office lists a tax cut for high-income earners as a particularly ineffective job creation measure. Private sector forecasters have reached the same judgment.1 The vast majority of economic research shows that higher-income earners spend less of a tax cut and so tax cuts to those earners create fewer jobs throughout the economy.


I could post evidence from many sources all night, all saying the same thing. The Bush Tax Cuts did not create jobs, they will not create jobs but they have cost this country trillions.

I posted an OP a while ago, high-lighting a report by David Cay on the Bush Tax Cuts. His report is the most thorough I have seen so far. You can find it here http://journals.democraticunderground.com/sabrina%201/121

He concluded his findings with this statement:

The hard, empirical facts:

The tax cuts did not spur investment. Job growth in the George W. Bush years was one-seventh that of the Clinton years. Nixon and Ford did better than Bush on jobs. Wages fell during the last administration. Average incomes fell. The number of Americans in poverty, as officially measured, hit a 16-year high last year of 43.6 million, though a National Academy of Sciences study says that the real poverty figure is closer to 51 million. Food banks are swamped. Foreclosure signs are everywhere. Americans and their governments are drowning in debt. And at the nexus of tax and healthcare, Republican ideas perpetuate a cruel and immoral system that rations healthcare -- while consuming every sixth dollar in the economy and making businesses, especially small businesses, less efficient and less profitable.

This is economic madness. It is policy divorced from empirical evidence. It is insanity because the policies are illusory and delusional. The evidence is in, and it shows beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts failed to achieve the promised goals.

So why in the world is anyone giving any credence to the insistence by Republican leaders that tax cuts, more tax cuts, and deeper tax cuts are the remedy to our economic woes? Why are they not laughingstocks?


THIS is one of the major causes of the Deficit! But the Deficit Commission perpetuates the lie that Social Security, which added ZERO to the Deficit, must be cut by raising the Retirement Age!

End the Bush Tax Cuts! The country cannot afford them. They did NOT and WILL NOT create jobs! They have cost this country trillions and added to the Deficit.

Social Security has cost this country NOTHING and added NOTHING to the Deficit!

What they are proposing is MADNESS, as David Cay says. To extend the Bush Tax Cuts is MADNESS.

Call Republicans in Congress and let them know WE KNOW they are lying.




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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. K & enthusiastic R. - n/t
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. k&r. madness it is. will anyone in power call them on it?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I don't know if they have been called on it. I don't remember
anyone actually calling their claim that those tax cuts created jobs, a lie. But it is. There is so much evidence. If Democrats started tomorrow presenting the evidence, the majority of Americans would be screaming to end them.

But as long as they allow them to pretend that jobs will be created, the public is not likely to react.

It is up to Democrats, Republicans will not do it.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. CBO figures cited by Romer in your OP show extending tax cuts is by far THE WORST of 11 possible
of 11 possible fiscal policy options. I link to the CBO PDF and simplify their summary table in a GD thread at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9518706 .

IMO anyone who does not know the gist of the figures in that table CANNOT express an informed opinion on proposals to extend income tax cuts for the top 2 percent.

Notice that, of the five policy choices in my simplified table, "reducing income taxes in 2011" is the ONLY option with a "bang for the buck" high estimate below 1.00. In other words, it is the ONLY option that CBO estimates CANNOT help economic growth. Notice also that it is the least efficient way to create jobs, costing between $250,000 to $1 million per job, compared to as little as $62,500 (= $1 million / 16) for the most efficient options.

The other four choices--

--Extending unemployment benefits,
--Cutting payroll taxes for firms that expand payroll,
--Infrastructure spending, and
--Non-Infrastructure aid to the States,

all would be far superior ways to spend $70 billion a year on expanding output and creating jobs, compared to extending extra income tax breaks for the top 2 percent.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. I just read your OP. I wish I had seen it earlier, because as I said
in my comment there, I thought I was alone in noticing that NO ONE is refuting the outrageous lie that the Bush Tax Cuts have or will create jobs.

IMO anyone who does not know the gist of the figures in that table CANNOT express an informed opinion on proposals to extend income tax cuts for the top 2 percent.

Is it possible that Congress Members have not read it? You are absolutely correct and I hope it will start getting some attention. Every reporter who interviews any member of Congress or the President who even hints at extending these tax cuts, should have a copy of that table in their hands.

Thank you for your post. I am going to bookmark that table. Maybe we should send copies to Congress, especially Republicans. And to the media.

But the silence from everyone on this is deafening.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. I have to make a correction to my above comment. Keith
Olbermann addressed the lie of jobs being created by the Bush Tax cuts tonight. I just saw the segment. And his guest made it clear that Congress DOES know it's a lie.

So, that answers my question as far as them knowing. It doesn't answer the question of why the President and Democrats in Congress are not making this very clear to the American people.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. Grand Theft America
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Omg, Swamp Rat, that is brilliant.
Did you just do that now? :rofl:
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. K & R. Galbraith called them a disgrace to their faces when he testified.
One actual economist on the panel. One.


"Third, most members of the Commission are political leaders, not economists. With all respect for Alice Rivlin, with just one economist on board you are denied access to the professional arguments surrounding this highly controversial issue. In general, it is impossible to have a fair discussion of any important question when the professional participants in that discussion have been picked, in advance, to represent a single point of view.

Conflicts of interest constitute the fourth major problem. The fact that the Commission has accepted support from Peter G. Peterson, a man who has for decades conducted a relentless campaign to cut Social Security and Medicare, raises the most serious questions. Quite apart from the merits of Mr. Peterson's arguments, this act must be condemned. A Commission serving public purpose cannot accept funds or other help from a private party with a strong interest in the outcome of that Commission's work. Your having done so is a disgrace.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x569194


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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. I remember that. Galbraith should have been on that Commission
IF an honest evaluation was the goal. It IS a disgrace, not only did they accept advice from Pete Peterson, but also from Grover Norquist, among others. It is a joke. A bad joke, and the joke appears to be on the American people.

Where are the Firemen, the Carpenters, Nurses, Teachers, Mothers, Grandmothers, ORDINARY PEOPLE in this government? We are being represented by Billionaires, who probably wouldn't sit down to eat with the people who cook for them, pick up their garbage, put out their fires.

And we are supposed to trust these people to do what is right for people they are so distant from, probably regard as another species?

It is beyond infuriating that was done by a Democratic administration.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Created by an executive order, yet.
One can fairly argue the the fact of the S*@tpile of stuff Pres Obama had heaped up on his doorstop by the prior admin from day 1, but this was his creation. Hundreds of progressive economists would have steered him differently, but the economy and the country will go on paying a price because they were kept out of the process.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yes, that's what I don't get. He was against Commissions
in the campaign. He called them a 'stealth way to get around Congress' where, he said, issues such as the deficit should be discussed in public. Hillary wanted a Commission, and he basically slammed the idea.

But even if he were going to do it, why not put people like James Galbraith on it, or other people qualified to make recommendations for the economy? There is only economist on this one, the rest as Galbraith said, are idealogues.

It's a shame.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Tragic truth. nt
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de novo Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. We know how bad they are. Let's not let them become the Bush-Obama Tax Cuts.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. P.S. Great pic. Look at all that grinning
at that nice warm generous gift to themselves and their friends back home.
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. Grinning as he's signing our future away.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Says it all about "them" and "us" doesn't it?
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
13. K and R.......Thanks.


:hi:


:kick:


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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
17. OK, this is petty, but ... that is one fugly-looking bunch of people.
Sometimes, the Pathetic Fallacy does work out.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:08 AM
Response to Original message
18. The destroyers cometh .... question is will they ever leave ... ????
Bush/Obama bail outs one of the greatest financial coup d'etats ever --

$12 TRILLION --

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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 04:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. K & R!
(To study in depth later)
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Thank you. I just realized that the first link is broken and it's too late
to fix it. Trying again:

Supply Side Tax Cuts Failed to Deliver Jobs and Growth Between 2001 and 2007

This paragraph should be sent all over the country before any decides to compromise on this:

But their analysis ignores what actually happened during the economic cycle that began in March 2001 and ended in December of 2007—which almost exactly coincides with the Bush presidency and the implementation of the Bush tax cuts. This period registered the weakest jobs and income growth in the post-war period. Overall monthly job growth was the worst of any cycle since at least February 1945, and household income growth was negative for the first cycle since tracking began in 1967. Women reversed employment gains of previous cycles. And for African Americans, the worst job growth on record was matched by an unprecedented increase in poverty.


This is serious stuff. These tax cuts not only did not create jobs, they coincided with the lowest rate of job creation since 1945!! They are LYING when they say Bush's tax cuts create jobs.

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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
23. Does the President know any of this?
:evilgrin:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I wondered that also. But last night, Keith Olbermann brought
this up. He had a guest whose name I cannot remember, an economist I think, who told Keith he had spoken to members of Congress about the fact that the tax cuts had not created any jobs. So, I imagine if Congress knows, so does the WH.

I have not heard members of Congress speak about it either. They may have, but not forcefully enough apparently, since I think I would have remembered.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. The president is not in charge of this policy.
Edited on Fri Nov-12-10 12:02 PM by Orsino
Such things are decided at a higher level.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. ...
Edited on Fri Nov-12-10 08:08 PM by ProudDad
:rofl: higher level...

Good catch! :hi:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
53. Lol, probably truer than we ever realized!
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. It would be Austan Goolsbee's job
among others' to tell him, but I don't think that's been a big priority for the DLC/PPI.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. Ugh. Look at that greezy oily fuck Phil Gramm, the man behind another American economic takedown.
That would be, of course, the Repeal of Glass-Steagall.

There's more High-Blood-Pressure Pink in that photo than you can shake a stick at.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Ah yes. Another favorite: Repealing Glass-Steagall.





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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Oh, look. It's Boehner. And Greenscam.
And the way Gramm the Shamm is "clapping", it's as if he's saying "that's THAT" to that pesky ol' middle class. Greasy bitch.

Look at Clinton . . . "How'd ah do, there?" And those wolves are like "Just beautifully . . . SUCKER."

Of course, that would assume Clinton was an unwilling dupe to Deregulation, which he very much wasn't. It's funny how a lot of economic things (G/L/B, NAFTA, Free Trade, job offshoring, deregulation, etc) both of the Clintons supported didn't quite work out so well for the middle/working/poor in the long run, isn't it?
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. Aww cheer up.
We're working on getting Jacob Lew back into the mix.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/21/obama-nominee-jacob-lew-f_n_732594.html

Don't you feel better?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #31
51. It's disgusting to look at them now. All happy about how rich
they all are and guaranteed to stay that way. But for the working class, only a few crumbs every once in a while to keep the illusion of democracy. The Bush/Clinton alliance never made sense to me, but it's beginning to.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. We have elections, but the people who apparently control things
never go away. No matter who we elect, we still get Greenspan (until he bailed recently when the Ponzi Scheme was finally exposed), Gates, Gramm, Summers, Bernanke, Geithner.

I think we better start voting THESE people out, because it's beginning to look like the elected officials are just fronts for the whole scam.

Cheney & Rumsfeld, Bush Sr. also, they've all been around forever, behind the scenes, appointed to various administrations in a 'bi-partisan' way. Who are these people and why won't they just go away? They have destroyed this country.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. If those two pictures plus yours above aren't pretty much a testimony
to everything you just said, I don't know what is.



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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. Now You're getting it!
No matter who "we" elect from the two right-wings of the Corporate War Party...

We get corporate welfare...

More war...

And no Change...

That's just the way it was set up...

It's a Republic by, for and of the rich...

As it always has been...
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
52. Just like Great Depressions, Great Recessions, Booms, Bubbles and Crashes come and go . . .
. . . but one thing remains - RICH PEOPLE. The same ones. Controlling every damned thing. And after each disaster, they come out smelling like roses and wealthier than ever, while we're ever more gluestuck in the ocean of manure and quicksand.

And why is that?

One GLARING reason is the slimy thugs in Congress and the Senate and the Governors seats . .. the ones that NEVER go away . . . gatekeep and aid and abet the wealthy's continuous criminal theft and resource plunder.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Yes, politicians are supposed to go to DC and represent the people
who elected them to the best of their ability, then they are supposed to go back home and return to whatever it was they were doing before that.

They were not supposed to enrich themselves at the expense of those they represent, nor to remain in positions of power AFTER they are no longer elected officials.

It would be interesting to track those who remain behind the scenes after leaving Congress or Cabinet positions, for decades.

One glaring example in this administration is Gates. The man who betrayed his boss and president, Jimmy Carter, then went on to join the Reagan administration and has never left the political scene since then, without being elected by the people.

So why did this president keep him on? I think we need answers and solutions to this major problem with our political system before we can begin to change it.

One question that must be asked of future presidential candidates 'Who will you be appointing to various Cabinet positions?'
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. it's an easy expose...where are the fucking jobs? democrats will not ask this question.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. This was a winning campaign issue. But they dropped it completely
and even now, with Republicans lying every day about how these tax cuts created jobs, there is virtual silence from the WH and from Democrats in general.

They will not be fighting to end them. The fix appears to be in, the wealthy overlords win again, the people lose.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. holy crap, it didn't create jobs, it cost jobs
Edited on Fri Nov-12-10 01:01 PM by pitohui
the super wealthy don't invest or create businesses, they buy already existing businesses for their "investment," consolidate, fire people, sell stuff off -- when you CONCENTRATE wealth, it doesn't create jobs, it actually kills jobs, because the super-wealthy investor can go to the whole world to site a factory -- you no longer have a lot of little businesses, "efficiency" means at least in part you can consolidate these businesses and get the same stuff done w. far fewer need for employees

doesn't everybody already know this who was even breathing for any little part of this century?
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soryang Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
32. Tax cuts on the very rich encourage hoarding and speculation...
Edited on Fri Nov-12-10 01:35 PM by soryang
...not investment in real capital ventures. This is what I learned when I majored in property and tax law in law school. So when I watch mainstream media, including bloomberg and cnn, and listen to "economic experts" and politicians, I wonder what universe these people live on and where they got such defective educations. But it isn't education, it's propaganda in the class war of the banking class on the American people.

The president's commission is a pete peterson foundation on steroids. Chairman Bowles is a Morgan Stanley director.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. True about the Commission. I have read that Bowles was after SS
during the Clinton administration but had to forget his plans after the Monica mess exploded. Who knew we would have Monica to thank for saving SS?

They must really think we are stupid. Either that, or what we think doesn't matter anymore.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
35. These points should be hammered on daily
K&R
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
38. The tax cuts are partly responsible for our economic crisis, not a recovery!
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Yes, that is obvious, but they still keep claiming that they
cannot let them expire because they 'create jobs'. Someone in the Democratic leadership needs to correct that.

According to several reports, from the time the tax cuts went into effect, job growth was the slowest since 1945! So how come we don't hear this every, single day?
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Yes. The Democratic leadership lets every lie go unchallenged...
and as a result the have become to seem like self evident truths instead of the manipulative lies that they are.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
41. I'm afraid I think this is a rather poorly-presented piece of argument.

Calling something which is clearly an interpretation rather than a fact a "hard empirical fact" makes my hackles rise, even when (arguably more when) it's an interpretation I agree with.

I think you could make a far, far stronger case by tuning out all the verbiage and rhetoric, and simply presenting the core factual claims in this piece (preferably with a source, or better still multiple sources, for each):

* Even if all of the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire as scheduled, the projected cost of the Bush tax cuts to the federal budget over the next ten years is $3.9 trillion, an average of 1.4 percent of the country’s total economic activity (GDP) per year.

* Job growth in the George W. Bush years was one-seventh that of the Clinton years.

* The number of Americans in poverty, as officially measured, hit a 16-year high last year of 43.6 million, though a National Academy of Sciences study says that the real poverty figure is closer to 51 million.


These are (at least if they can be backed up by evidence) extraordinarily powerful and compelling claims in their own right. They don't benefit from being lost amidst a flood of exagerated vituperation, I think.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. What did I call a 'hard empirical fact' that I did not provide
backup for?

In the third link there is more than enough empirical evidence to back up the main claim, the Bush tax cuts did not create jobs. That link has charts, reports, numbers from each year since the tax cuts went into effect. The second link is from a very reliable source, if you looked at it.

I'm sure it could be presented much better, so I grant you that point. However, that is the job of elected officials. All I can do, being that I am not a writer, an economist nor a government official is to research the claim being made that we cannot let the tax cuts expire because they create jobs. I looked it up and found that not to be true and presented a small part of the evidence I found.

But, you're right, less is often more, otoh, to present less you need to know more. If you would post an OP with the points made more concisely, I would be happy to rec. it. My goal was to let as many people know as possible that they should not take the word of Republicans or anyone else, who are making that false claim.

I do appreciate your observations and agree mostly. I assumed, that like me, most people were not aware of the facts and needed a little more information than just sound bites this time.
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pgodbold Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-10 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
46. K&R
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
49. it costs a lot to get rid of Social Security and Medicare...
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-10 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
50. it costs a lot to get rid of Social Security and Medicare...
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