John Stewart was absolutely right

[LawnLover]

I'm sitting here, gearing up for a day of work and as my wife gets ready to leave the house, she's listening to MSNBC. So what's the first thing we hear? A segment on what television shows Republicans watch vs. what television shows Democrats watch.

Seriously?

EVERYTHING has become a competition between the right and the left on cable news. They do anything they can to separate the two and CREATE conflict, where, honestly, conflict doesn't really exist.

This is fucking ridiculous.

[Pharaoh]

1. yes, divide and conquer

get the masses to fight one another and nobody notices those guys are robbing us all blind!

[Ian David]

2. Let's give equal time now to someone who thinks conflict DOES ALWAYS exist. n/t

[seabeyond]

3. what jon or you dont address, is we went a good decade without a voice.

not having a voice from dem politicians or media allowed the take over of fox.

it has helped to create the instilled "truths" the repug have.

what you and jon and other supporters do not address is HOW one combats the lies, without a voice.

[hfojvt]

14. the question is what is our voice going to say?

Do they spread the message that "we are all in this together" that "it is ALL of us vs. the money elites"?

OR

Is their message that "the Jets are so cool and awesome and the Sharks are a bunch of doody heads"?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/122

And od they stir up a bunch of dishonest crap in order to further that message?

Is there any possibility that "our" voice is helping to make the world that much meaner and dumber?

[LawnLover]

22. Yes. Often it does.

I haven't been posting here long, but I've been lurking for years and lately I see a lot of hatred spewed on these boards. If someone has an opposing view, he's labeled a bigot or a homophobe or a Republican or a wingnut or simply an idiot without even a moment's hesitation by certain participants here. And I'm not completely innocent in that regard.

We too often lead with our emotions and don't pay close enough attention to what the person is actually trying to say.

[malaise]

4. I did laugh at that stupid section

By the way I agree with your subject - this divisiveness is sickening.

[T Wolf]

5. There isn't conflict between the left and right? There are no differences between supporting

e.g., civil rights and opposing them?

What you fail to realize is that there is a basic, almost-genetic difference between the two sides. That difference manifests itself in many ways - from political views to forms of entertainment to preferences in just about everything.

It all comes down to this - we on the left believe in a social contract that leads us to consider how things impact everyone. Those on the right seek only their own welfare, due to such bullshit as the "rugged individualism" meme.

That difference does divide us from them.

[LawnLover]

6. There is an ideological conflict, yes

But just a year or so back, when I still had a day job, I worked for a company that had a diverse working population. Left, right, center. We didn't avoid talking politics on a regular basis and we discovered that while we had our differences, there were many things we AGREED about. Things have to do with family and friends and helping our fellow human beings. We agreed more often than we disagreed, yet the emphasis of cable news is to highlight the differences instead.

Why not highlight the things we AGREE about and work toward finding solutions to our problems, rather than reduce it to a petty argument about left vs. right.

I'm not suggesting there aren't assholes out there, who don't give a shit about anything but their own wallets, etc., but they are the MINORITY. And the only reason cable news tries to give us the impression that they're the MAJORITY, is because viewers are attracted by conflict. Conflict is the heart of all drama -- books, movies, music -- and now it has bled over into cable news. They hype the story in order to attract viewers.

This has always been true to some degree, but I think the corporations who control cable news are really seeing the green now in this conflict and they play it up as much as they possibly can.

[NoNothing]

7. Because, naturally

It upsets partisans to entertain that there is anything - anything at all - that their enemies might not be wrong about. The only reason it is profitable is because that is what the true believers want to hear.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. The fighting is not between you and your co-workers.

Unless of course they support the guy who wants to kill social security - that might be grounds for fighting. Who gives a fuck if they like puppies? If they want to prevent their fellow citizens from having full civil rights, they are the enemy.

People organize themselves into groups by common belief. When the organizing belief is wrong, it must be opposed. THAT is the source of conflict. It is not just something made up the media to boost ratings.

The media doesn't play up the conflict for its own sake. The media has a vested monetary interest is supporting ONE side of the conflict - with corporate interbreeding, the media company that reports on the oil company shares board members with that oil company, or their parent group does with the oil company's parent group. The media/entertainment group owns 20% of the arm manufacturer that is going to make 10 billion during the war the media group is reporting on.

It has NOTHING to do with you and your coworkers. Not unless you're on the Disney board of directors.

[LawnLover]

11. Sorry, but it has EVERYTHING to do with me and my

co-workers. We are not, after all, separate from our government, are we? Should the world simply discount what we have to say simply because you don't think it's important?

The groups we organize have a function, yes, but they don't define every part of our lives. Yet the media plays it up as if they do. Are you suggesting that it's impossible for you to get along with a Republican or an extreme right winger? That there's no common ground to be found at all? That's truly sad.

We don't make progress by hating each other. We make progress by a willingness to work TOGETHER.

The simple fact is that the media is HYPING UP our differences to make money. And Stewart was absolutely right.

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. You don't get it. To those who make the decisions there is no difference, not

the slightest, between the most mindless teabagger and the most pedantic Naderite. What they believe makes no difference to them. They will have their way, regardless.

The PTB don't give a damn about left and right, they don't give a damn about ideology. The only thing they care about is keeping you from seeing THEM as the other side.

YOU are a teabagger. YOU are a commie. YOU are a centrist, intent on working together with your fellow citizens. It makes no difference. It is not about the progress YOU make. It is all about the profits THEY make. And there is nothing that YOU can do about it.

[LawnLover]

20. Oh, I get it. And I don't think we disagree on THAT point.

It's exactly the same for cable news. It's about PROFIT, not ideology, and they do what they can to pump up the drama in order to raise their profits.

But putting that aside, WE also make decisions. We make decisions to vote or not to vote. We make decisions to support bigots or not support them. We make decisions to elect fair-minded people or corrupt assholes.

The Republicans only managed to take the House because otherwise reasonable people wouldn't go to the polls. Rather than screaming about right and left and how polarized our society is (and I disagree with that sentiment), we need to be encouraging people to vote rather than scaring them away with fearmongering and hate. And, I'm sorry, but the finge on BOTH sides are guilty of that.

[hfojvt]

18. yet many people can slip back and forth

Some voted for Obama and also for a Republican going to Congress. Some voted for McCain and also for a Democrat to Congress. Some voted for Obama and also for Prop 8, and so on.

If you are going to advance this theory that our differences are almost genetic, then where is there any hope of persuading more people to come to our side? You may not have noticed, but liberals are a huge minority, being only about 22% of the US population. Where is there any hope of a peaceful society? Are we going to be able to live together, or do we need to build camps for those selfish SOBs?

Also, I don't think your argument is factual. There are plenty of people on the left who are looking first to their own welfare, although they will often hide it under language that promotes high moral principle.

[LawnLover]

23. With all due respect

I disagree that liberals are a minority. I think people who LABEL themselves are a minority, but I think the majority of Americans, when confronted with "liberal" ideas WITHOUT the politics of hate attached, agree with those ideas.

[hfojvt]

25. that still makes it hard to advance liberal causes

For example, a majority agree that the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy should not be extended, and yet a majority of voters just elected a bunch of Republicans who are sworn to die before they let the Bush tax cuts expire. You could say the same with abortion. A majority favor legal abortion, but the Republicans they just elected do not. So why is that? Is it because of turn-out? We not only have to sell our ideas, but we need to sell our people, which may mean also selling our label.

[LawnLover]

29. "a majority of voters"

No, only a majority of those who voted. Unfortunately, not enough of us liberals got off our asses and actually voted. Sad but true.

[hfojvt]

31. I have not seen data for that yet

What I know from Kansas seems to make it false. For my county in 2008 we lost the Congressional race by 15,000 to 11,000. In 2006 it was almost even 9400 to 9200 (or so, I am doing this from memory so numbers are only approximate), and in 2004 we lost 16,000 to 10,000. This year we lost by 12,000 to 5400. Still, only about 17,000 people voted, just like in the last off-year election. It seems to me that about 3,000 switched from D to R because our candidate was so broke that she blew off our county in the campaign. I do not believe that they had 12,000 of their pool of 15,000 who voted while we only had 5400 out of our 11,000. There may have been some of that - that they had 500-1000 more of their voters turn out and we had 500-1000 less of ours turn out, but I don't think that explains the whole swing. Even 1,000 each way should have made it just 10,400 to 8,200.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. "liberals are a huge minority, being only about 22% of the US population"

Bullshit.

People who self identify as liberals may only be 22% - but question people without the label and the attitudes express show Americans to be at least 70% liberal - and that includes, obviously, a fair number of self-described conservatives.

"There are plenty of people on the left who are looking first to their own welfare, although they will often hide it under language that promotes high moral principle."

Well, duh. One of the core principles of liberalism is enlightened self interest. What's best for the society is what is best for me, because I am a part of the society. Conservatives see society at 'the other' - something they are outside of. It boils down to who is top dog. Liberals believe that who is top dog is immaterial if the society is just, and it is society that guarantees our rights, not our wealth or guns.

Which do you think most Americans would fundamentally agree with - the leader who says "I am the state" or the leader who says "Liberty, fraternity, equality"?

THAT is the determiner of what is liberal - not some propaganda from Fox News.

[hfojvt]

27. and the score of the last election shows what?

and I am not talking about "what is best for society". People will do it the other way around. They will argue that what is best for me is also best for society. Yet it is their own bacon they are more concerned with, not society's. They talk about justice and they talk about truth, for 10,000 dollars a show. At the bottom is their own bacon. Let an issue come up that does not involve their own bacon, and they quickly lose interest.

This 70% that you think supports liberal policies clearly did not show up to vote in 2010. Instead they chose a bunch of radical conservatives for the most part. So I think my thesis about a conservative population is more accurate. Unfortunately, but the facts are what the facts are, and no amount of liberals are so good and conservatives are so bad, seems to be able to change that.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. The case can be made that the right turned out in greater numbers

than the liberals because the liberals were not seeing that their votes were making any difference to this administration.

Are we still in two major and gawd knows how many minor wars?
Did we not just see the entire electoral process turned over to the corporations?
Is Gitmo closed?

This administration, which ran on a decidedly liberal platform, has governed from a center-right position. Is THAT how you turn out the liberal voters?

Do you think the people are lying to pollsters when 70% say they want a public option in HCR? When 75% say they was marijuana decriminalized or even legalized? When 65% favor marriage equality? Yet, somehow, those never show themselves in the elections. Why is that? Are people REALLY lying to anonymous polls?

[ladjf]

8. I disagree with John Stewart. Further, I believe that America would

be better off is he stuck to comedy, where he is truly outstanding.

[Javaman]

9. I agree. nt

[LawnLover]

12. I think Stewart has a reasoned, nuanced voice

that very much needs to be listened to right now. Those who aren't listening carefully to what he has to say are part of the problem, not the solution.

[KharmaTrain]

13. Manufactured "News"

So little of what's on the cables is of substance. With hours to fill networks have created their own "news". It's blatant with faux who merge it with corporate and partisan interests but the others are guilty of brewing their own tempests in a teapot. It's easier and sexier to have people talk at each other than to try to explain the complexities of issues of substance. If people want that, they watch PBS.

[UTUSN]

16. Conflict really does exist. We don't need 24-cycles to ramp it up,

So Jon's bottom line is that we should ENDLESSLY "debate and discuss"?

This would be with people (TeaBaggers, Rethugs, Wingnuts, Skinheads, KKK, BIRCHERs) who would LITERALLY love to slap us in the face and stomp our heads. LITERALLY.

[LawnLover]

21. The people you speak of are

a small minority in this country. Teabaggers, wingnuts, skinheads, etc. Most people, when spoken to with reason, lean center left. Yet we let our hatred for the wingnuts and the teabaggers dominate the conversation.

[UTUSN]

26. Fine, but they VOTE & scream while the vast majority of Center-Lefts DON'T.

& the reality is that our system of government is based on PARTIES and on WINNING/winner-takes-all.

[LawnLover]

30. We only have ourselves to blame

for those of us who don't vote. If we got out there and voted, nobody would be listening to these people. But for some unknown reason, we don't vote, and we can blame it on the Democrats and Obama, but the truth is, by not voting -- no matter how lackluster they might seem -- we are just handing the world over to the minority. The turnout was 40% this year. That's shameful.

[Taverner]

17. Aw man do I have to quote Machiavelli for you all again?

Blah blah better to have your subjects fight each other than fight you....

[Fuzz]

19. He was also 100% correct about Fox loving a Democrat that disagrees

with Democratic policies. They would have them on 24/7.